RH Bill No. 5043 Full Text
rh bill 5043 has been revised :
consolidated reproductive health bill full text – House Bill RH 4244.
click here: http://wp.me/pnw03-1qg
In this blog, read: https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/category/rh-bill-5043/
Read all about RH Bill 5043 in this page. Click other sub-pages attached to this one. View sub-pages titles on right side of this page.
- SWS Poll January 2010 – 38% will vote for candidates who support the bill, 68% favor all forms of family planning made available in public health centers
- Reproductive health bill: Facts, fallacies
- presidentiables stand on population growth
- Ateneo Professor’s Position Paper RH Bill 5043
- RH Bill 5043 SWS Survey
- RH Bill No. 5043 Full Text
source: http://jlp-law.com/blog/full-text-of…t-act-of-2008/
HOUSE BILL NO. 5043
AN ACT PROVIDING FOR A NATIONAL POLICY ON REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, RESPONSIBLE PARENTHOOD AND POPULATION DEVELOPMENT, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES
Be it enacted by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the Philippines in Congress assembled:
SECTION 1. Short Title. – This Act shall be known as the “Reproductive Health and Population Development Act of 2008“.
SEC. 2. Declaration of Policy. – The State upholds and promotes responsible parenthood, informed choice, birth spacing and respect for life in conformity with internationally recognized human rights standards.
The State shall uphold the right of the people, particularly women and their organizations, to effective and reasonable participation in the formulation and implementation of the declared policy.
This policy is anchored on the rationale that sustainable human development is better assured with a manageable population of healthy, educated and productive citizens.
The State likewise guarantees universal access to medically-safe, legal, affordable and quality reproductive health care services, methods, devices, supplies and relevant information thereon even as it prioritizes the needs of women and children,among other underprivileged sectors.
SEC. 3. Guiding Principles. – This Act declares the following as basic guiding principles:
a. In the promotion of reproductive health, there should be no bias for either modern or natural methods of family planning;
b. Reproductive health goes beyond a demographic target because it is principally about health and rights;
c. Gender equality and women empowerment are central elements of reproductive health and population development;
d. Since manpower is the principal asset of every country, effective reproductive health care services must be given primacy to ensure the birth and care of healthy children and to promote responsible parenting;
e. The limited resources of the country cannot be suffered to, be spread so thinly to service a burgeoning multitude that makes the allocations grossly inadequate and effectively meaningless;
f. Freedom of informed choice, which is central to the exercise of any right, must be fully guaranteed by the State like the right itself;
g. While the number and spacing of children are left to the sound judgment of parents and couples based on their personal conviction and religious beliefs, such concerned parents and couples, including unmarried individuals, should be afforded free and full access to relevant, adequate and correct information on reproductive health and human sexuality and should be guided by qualified State workers and professional private practitioners;
h. Reproductive health, including the promotion of breastfeeding, must be the joint concern of the National Government and Local Government Units(LGUs);
i. Protection and promotion of gender equality, women empowerment and human rights, including reproductive health rights, are imperative;
j. Development is a multi-faceted process that calls for the coordination and integration of policies, plans, programs and projects that seek to uplift the quality of life of the people, more particularly the poor, the needy and the marginalized;
k. Active participation by and thorough consultation with concerned non-government organizations (NGOs), people’s organizations (POs) and communities are imperative to ensure that basic policies, plans, programs and projects address the priority needs of stakeholders;
l. Respect for, protection and fulfillment of reproductive health rights seek to promote not only the rights and welfare of adult individuals and couples but those of adolescents’ and children’s as well; and
m. While nothing in this Act changes the law on abortion, as abortion remains a crime and is punishable, the government shall ensure that women seeking care for post-abortion complications shall be treated and counseled in a humane, non-judgmental and compassionate manner.
SEC. 4. Definition of Terms. – For purposes of this Act, the following terms shall be defined as follows:
a. Responsible Parenthood – refers to the will, ability and cornmitTrient of parents to respond to the needs and aspirations of the family and children more particularly through family planning;
b. Family Planning – refers to a program which enables couple, and individuals to decide freely and responsibly the number and spacing of their children and to have the information and means to carry out their decisions, and to have informed choice and access to a full range of safe, legal and effective family planning methods, techniques and devices.
c. Reproductive Health -refers to the state of physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity, in all matters relating to the reproductive system and to its funcitions and processes. This implies that people are able to have a satisfying and safe sex life, that they have the capability to reproduce and the freedom to decide if, when and how often to do so, provided that these are not against the law. This further implies that women and men are afforded equal status in matters related to sexual relations and reproduction.
d. Reproductive Health Rights – refers to the rights of individuals and couples do decide freely and responsibly the number, spacing and timing of their children; to make other decisions concerning reproduction free of discrimination, coercion and violence; to have the information and means to carry out their decisions; and to attain the highest standard of sexual and reproductive health.
e. Gender Equality – refers to the absence of discrimination on the basis of a person’s sex, in opportunities, allocation of resources and benefits, and access to services.
f. Gender Equity – refers to fairness and justice in the distribution of benefits and responsibilities between women and men, and often requires. women-specific projects and programs to eliminate existing inequalities, inequities, policies and practices unfavorable too women.
g. Reproductive Health Care – refers to the availability of and access to a full range of methods, techniques, supplies and services that contribute to reproductive and sexual health and well-being by preventing and solving reproductive health-related problems in order to achieve enhancement of life and personal relations. The elements of reproductive health care include:
1. Maternal, infant and child health and nutrition;
2. Promotion of breastfeeding;
3. Family planning information end services;
4. Prevention of abortion and management of post-abortion complications;
5. Adolescent and youth health;
6. Prevention and management of reproductive tract infections (RTIs), HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmittable infections (STIs);
7. Elimination ofviolence against women;
8. Education and counseling on sexuality and sexual and reproductive health;
9. Treatment of breast and reproductive tract cancers and other gynecological conditions;
10. Male involvement and participation in reproductive health;,
11. Prevention and treatmentof infertility and sexual dysfunction; and
12. Reproductive health education for the youth.
h. Reproductive Health Education – refers to the process of acquiring complete, accurate and relevant information on all matters relating to the reproductive system, its functions and processes and human sexuality; and forming attitudes and beliefs about sex, sexual identity, interpersonal relationships, affection, intimacy and gender roles. It also includes developing the necessary skills do be able to distinguish between facts and myths on sex and sexuality; and critically evaluate. and discuss the moral, religious, social and cultural dimensions of related sensitive issues such as contraception and abortion.
i. Male involvement and participation – refers to the involvement, participation, commitment and joint responsibility of men with women in all areas of sexual and reproductive health, as well as reproductive health concerns specific to men.
j. Reproductive tract infection (RTI) – refers do sexually transmitted infections, sexually transmitted diseases and other types of-infections affecting the reproductive system.
k. Basic Emergency Obstetric Care – refers to lifesaving services for maternal complication being provided by a health facility or professional which must include the following six signal functions: administration of parenteral antibiotics; administration of parrenteral oxyttocic drugs; administration of parenteral anticonvulsants for pre-eclampsia and iampsia; manual removal of placenta; and assisted vaginal delivery.
l. Comprehensive Emergency Obstetric Care – refers to basic emergency obstetric care plus two other signal functions: performance of caesarean section and blood transfusion.
m. Maternal Death Review – refers to a qualitative and in-depth study of the causes of maternal death with the primary purpose of preventing future deaths through changes or additions to programs, plans and policies.
n. Skilled Attendant – refers to an accredited health professional such as a licensed midwife, doctor or nurse who has adequate proficiency and the skills to manage normal (uncomplicated) pregnancies, childbirth and the immediate postnatal period, and in the identification, management and referral of complication in women and newborns.
o. Skilled Attendance – refers to childbirth managed by a skilled attendant under the enabling conditions of a functional emergencyobstetric care and referral system.
p. Development – refers to a multi-dimensional process involving major changes in social structures, popular attitudes, and national institutions as well as the acceleration of economic growth, the reduction of inequality and the eradication of widespread poverty.
q. Sustainable Human Development – refers to the totality of the process of expending human choices by enabling people to enjoy long, healthy and productive lives, affording them access to resources needed for a decent standard of living and assuring continuity and acceleration of development by achieving a balance between and among a manageable population, adequate resources and a healthy environment.
r. Population Development – refers to a program that aims to: (1) help couples and parents achieve their desired family size; (2) improve reproductive health of individuals by addressing reproductive health problems; (3) contribute to decreased maternal and infant mortality rates and early child mortality; (4) reduce incidence of teenage pregnancy; and (5) enable government to achieve a balanced population distribution.
SEC. 5. The Commission on Population (POPC0NI). – Pursuant to the herein declared policy, the Commission on Population (POPCOM) shall serve as the central planning, coordinating, implementing and monitoring body for the comprehensive and integrated policy on reproductive health and population development. In the implementation of this policy, POPCOM, which shall be an attached agency of the Department of Health (DOH) shall have the following functions:
a. To create an enabling environment for women and couples to make an informed choice regarding the family planning method that is best suited to their needs and personal convictions;
b. To integrate on a continuing basis the interrelated reproductive health and population development agenda into a national policy, taking into account regional and local concerns;
c. To provide the mechanism to ensure active and full participation of the private sector and the citizenry through their organizations in the planning and implementation of reproductive health care and population development programs and projects;
d. To ensure people’s access to medically safe, legal, quality and affordable reproductive health goods and services;
e. To facilitate the involvement and participation of non-government organizations and the private sector in reproductive health care service delivery and in the production, distribution and delivery of quality reproductive: health and family planning supplies and commodities to make them accessible and affordable to ordinary citizens;
f. To fully implement the Reproductive Health Care Program with the following components:
(1) Reproductive health education including but not limited to counseling on the full range of legal and medically-safe family planning methods including surgical methods;
(2) Maternal, pen-natal and post-natal education, care and services;
(3) Promotion of breastfeeding;
(4) Promotion of male involvement, participation and responsibility in reproductive health as well as other reproductive health concerns of men;
(5) Prevention of abortion and management of post-abortion complications; and
(6) Provision of information and services addressing the reproductive health needs of the poor, senior citizens, women in prostitution, differently-abled persons, and women and children in war AND crisis situations.
g. To ensure that reproductive health services are delivered with a full range of supplies, facilities and equipment and that service providers are adequately trained for reproductive health care;
h. To endeavor to furnish local Family Planning Offices with appropriate information and resources to keep the latter updated on current studies and research relating to family planning, responsible parenthood, breastfeeding and infant nutrition;
i. To direct all public hospitals to make available to indigent mothers who deliver their children in these government hospitals, upon the mothers request, the procedure of ligation without cost to her;
j. To recommend the enactment of legislation and adoption of executive measures that will strengthen and enhance the national policy on reproductive health and population development;
k. To ensure a massive and sustained information drive on responsible parenthood and on all methods and techniques to prevent unwanted, unplanned and mistimed pregnancies, it shall release information bulletins on the same for nationwide circulation to all government departments, agencies and instrumentalities, non-government organizations and the private sector, schools, public and private libraries, tri-media outlets, workplaces, hospitals and concerned health institutions;
l. To strengthen the capacities of health regulatory agencies to ensure safe, high-quality, accessible, and affordable reproductive health services and commodities with the concurrent strengthening and enforcement of regulatory mandates and mechanisms;
m. To take active steps to expand the coverage of the National Health Insurance Program (NHIP), especially among poor and marginalized women, to include the full range of reproductive health services and supplies as health insurance benefits; and
n. To perform such other functions necessary to attain the purposes of this Act.
The membership of the Board of Commissioners of POPCOM shall consist of the heads of the following AGENCIES:
1. National Economic DevelopmentAuthority (VEDA)
2. Department of Health (DOH)
3. Department of Social Welfare and Development (DSWD)
4. Department of Labor and Employment (DOLE)
5. Department of Agriculture (DA)
6. Department of the Interior and Local Government (DILG)
7. Department of Education (DepEd)
8. Department of Environment and Natural Resources (DENR)
9. Commission on Higher Education (CHED)
10. University of the Philippines Population Institute (UPPI)
11. Union of Local Authorities of the Philippines (ULAFI)
12. National Anti-Poverty Commission (NAPQ
13. National Commission on the Role of Filipino Women (NCRFW)
14. National Youth Commission (NYC)In addition to the aforementioned, members, there shall be three private sector representatives to the Board of Commissioners of POPCOM who shall come from NGOs. There shall be one (1) representative each from women, youth and health sectors who have a proven track record of involvement in the promotion of reproductive health. These representatives shall be nominated in a process determined by the above-mentioned sectors, and to be appointed by the President for a term of three (3)years.
SEC. 6. Midwives for Skilled Attendance. -Every city and municipality shall endeavor to employ adequate number of midwives or other skilled attendants to achieve a minimum ratio of one (1)for every one hundred fifty (150) deliveries per year, to be based on the average annual number of actual deliveries or live births for the past two years.
SEC. 7. Emergency Obstetric Care. – Each province. and city shall endeavor to ensure the establishment and operation of hospitals with adequate and qualified personnel that provide emergency obstetric care. For every 500,000 population, there shall be at least one (1) hospital for comprehensive emergency obstetric care and four (4) hospitals for basic emergency obstetric care.
SEC. 8. Maternal Death Review. – All LGUs, national and local government hospitals, and other public health units shall conduct maternal death review in accordance with the guidelines to be issued by the DOH in consultation with the POPCOM.
SEC. 9. Hospital-Based Family Planning. -Tubal ligation, vasectomy, intrauterine device insertion and other family planning methods requiring hospital services shall be available in all national and local government hospitals, except: in specialty hospitals which may render such services on an optional basis. For indigent patients, such services shall be fully covered by PhilHealth insurance and/or government financial assistance.
SEC. 10. Contraceptives as Essential Medicines. – Hormonal contraceptives, intrauterine devices, injectables and other allied reproductive health products and supplies shall be considered under the category of essential medicines and supplies which shall form part of the National Drug Formulary and the same shall be included in the regular purchase of essential medicines and supplies of all national and lord hospitals and other government health units.
SEC. 11. Mobile Health Care Service. -Each Congressional District shall be provided with a van to be known as the Mobile Health Care Service (MHOS) to deliver health care goods and services to its constituents, more particularly to the poor and needy, as well as disseminate knowledge and information on reproductive health: Provided, That reproductive health education shall be conducted by competent and adequately trained persons preferably reproductive health care providers: Provided, further, That the full range of family planning methods, both natural and modern, shall be promoted.
The acquisition, operation and maintenance of the MRCS shall be funded from the Priority Development Assistance Fund (PDAF) of each Congressional District.
The MHCS shall be adequately equipped with a wide range of reproductive health care materials and information dissemination devices and equipment, the latter including but not limited to, a television set for audio-visual presentation.
SEC. 12. Mandatory Age-Appropriate Reproductive Health Education. – Recognizing the importance of reproductive health rights in empowering the youth and developing them into responsible adults, Reproductive Health Education in an age-appropriate manner shall be taught by adequately trained teachers starting from Grade 5 up to Fourth Year High School. In order to assure the prior training of teachers on reproductive health, the implementation of Reproductive Health Education shall commence at the start of the school year one year following the effectivity of this Act. The POPCOM, in coordination with the Department of Education, shall formulate the Reproductive Health Education curriculum, which shall be common to both public and private schools and shall include related population and development concepts in addition to the following subjects and standards:
a. Reproductive health and sexual rights;
b. Reproductive health care and services;
c. Attitudes, beliefs and values on sexual development, sexual behavior and sexual health;
d. Proscription and hazards of abortion and management of post-abortion complications;
e. Responsible parenthood.
f. Use and application of natural and modern family planning methods to promote reproductive health, achieve desired family size and prevent unwanted, unplanned and mistimed pregnancies;
g. Abstinence before marriage;
h. Prevention and treatment of HIV/AIDS and other, STIs/STDs, prostate cancer, breast cancer, cervical cancer and other gynecological disorders;
i. Responsible sexuality; and
j. Maternal, peri-natal and post-natal education, care and services.
In support of the natural, and primary right of parents in the rearing of the youth, the POPCOM shall provide concerned parents with adequate and relevant scientific materials on the age-appropriate topics and manner of teaching reproductive health education to their children.
In the elementary level, reproductive health education shall focus, among others, on values formation.
Non-formal education programs shall likewise include the abovementioned reproductive Health Education.
SEC. 13. Additional Duty of Family Planning 0ffice. – Each local Family Planning Office shall furnish for free instructions and information on family planning, responsible parenthood, breastfeeding and infant nutrition to all applicants for marriage license.
SEC. 14. Certificate of Compliance. – No marriage license shall be issued by the Local Civil Registrar unless the applicants present a Certificate of Compliance issued for free by the local Family Planning Office certifying that they had duly received adequate instructions and information on family planning, responsible parenthood, breastfeeding and infant nutrition.
SEC. 15. Capability Building of Community-Based Volunteer Workers. – Community-based volunteer workers, like but not limited to, Barangay Health Workers, shall undergo additional and updated training on the delivery of reproductive health care services and shall receive not less than 10% increase in honoraria upon successful completion of training. The increase in honoraria shall be funded from the Gender and Development (GAD) budget of the National Economic and Development Authority (NEDA), Department of Health (DOH) and the Department of the Interior and Local Government (DILG).
SEC. 16. Ideal Family Size. – The State shall assist couples, parents and individuals to achieve their desired family size within the context of responsible parenthood for sustainable development and encourage them to have two children as the ideal family size. Attaining the ideal family size is neither mandatory nor compulsory. No punitive action shall be imposed on parents having more than two children.
SEC. 17. Employers’ Responsibilities. – Employers shall respect the reproductive health rights of all their workers. Women shall not be discriminated against in the matter of hiring, regularization of employment status or selection for retrenchment.
All Collective Bargaining Agreements (CBAs) shall provide for the free delivery by the employer of reasonable quantity of reproductive health care services, supplies and devices to all workers, more particularly women workers. In establishments or enterprises where there are no CBAs or where the employees are unorganized, the employer shall have the same obligation.
SEC. 18. Support of Private and Non-government Health Care Service Providers. – Pursuant to Section 5(b) hereof, private reproductive health care service providers, including but not limited to gynecologists and obstetricians, are encouraged to join their colleagues in non-government organizations in rendering such services free of charge or at reduced professional fee rates to indigent and low income patients.
SEC. 19. Multi-Media Campaign. – POPCOM shall initiate and sustain an intensified nationwide multi-media campaign to raise the level of public awareness on the urgent need to protect and promote reproductive health and rights.
SEC. 20. Reporting Requirements. – Before the end of April of each year,the DOH shall submit an annual report to the President of the Philippines, the President of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives on a definitive and comprehensive assessment of the implementation of this Act and shall make the necessary recommendations for executive and legislative action. The report shall be posted in the website of DOH and printed copies shall be made available to all stakeholders.
SEC. 21. Prohibited Acts. – The following acts are prohibited:
a) Any health care service provider, whether public or private, who shall:
1. Knowingly withhold information or impede the dissemination thereof, and/or intentionally provide incorrect information regarding programs and services on reproductive health including the right to informed choice and access to a full range of legal, medically-safe and effective family planning methods;
2. Refuse to perform voluntary ligation and vasectomy and other legal and medically-safe reproductive health care services on any person of legal age on the ground of lack of spousal consent or authorization.
3. Refuse to provide reproductive health care services to an abused minor, whose abused condition is certified by the proper official or personnel of the Department of Social Welfare and Development (DSWD) or to duly DSWD-certified abused pregnant minor on whose case no parental consent is necessary.
4. Fail to provide, either deliberately or through gross or inexcusable negligence, reproductive health care services as mandated under this Act, the Local Government Code of 1991, the Labor Code, and Presidential Decree 79, as amended; and
5. Refuse to extend reproductive health care services and information on account of the patient’s civil status, gender or sexual orientation, age, religion, personal circumstances, and nature of work; Provided, That all conscientious objections of health care service providers based on religious grounds shall be respected: Provided, further, That the conscientious objector shall immediately refer the person seeking such care and services to another health care service provider within the same facility or one which is conveniently accessible: Provided, finally, That the patient is not in an emergency or serious case as defined in RA 8344 penalizing the refusal of hospitals and medical clinics to administer appropriate initial medical treatment and support in emergency and serious cases.
b) Any public official who prohibits or restricts personally or through a subordinate the delivery of legal and medically-safe reproductive health care services, including family planning;
c) Any employer who shall fail to comply with his obligation under Section 17 of this Act or an employer who requires a female applicant or employee, as a condition for employment or continued employment, to involuntarily undergo sterilization, tubal ligation or any other form of contraceptive method;
d) Any person who shall falsify a certificate of compliance as required in Section 14 of this Act; and
e) Any person who maliciously en ges in disinformation about the intent or provisions of this Act.
SEC. 22. Penalties. – The proper city or municipal court shall exercise jurisdiction over violations of this Act and the accused who is found guilty shall be sentenced to an imprisonment ranging from one (1) month to six (6) months or a fine ranging from Ten Thousand Pesos (P10,000.00) to Fifty Thousand Pesos (P50,000.00) or both such fine and imprisonment at the discretion of the court. If the offender is a juridical person, the penalty shall be imposed upon the president, treasurer, secretary or any responsible officer. An offender who is an alien shall, after service of sentence, be deported immediately without further proceedings by the Bureau of Immigration. An offender who is a public officer or employee shall suffer the accessory penalty of dismissal from the government service.
Violators of this Act shall be civilly liable to the offended party in such amount at the discretion of the proper court.
SEC. 23. Appropriations. – The amounts appropriated in the current annual General Appropriations Act for reproductive health and family planning under the DOH and POPCOM together with ten percent (10%) of the Gender and Development (GAD) budgets of all government departments, agencies, bureaus, offices and instrumentalities funded in the annual General Appropriations Act in accordance with Republic Act No. 7192 (Women in Development and Nation-building Act) and Executive Order No. 273 (Philippine Plan for Gender Responsive Development 1995-2025) shall be allocated and utilized for the implementation of this Act. Such additional sums as may be necessary for the effective implementation of this Act shall be Included in the subsequent years’ General Appropriations Acts.
SEC. 24. Implementing Rules and Regulations. – Within sixty (60) days from the effectivity of this Act, the Department of Health shall promulgate, after thorough consultation with the Commission on Population (POPCOM), the National Economic Development Authority (NEDA), concerned non-government organizations (NGOs) and known reproductive health advocates, the requisite implementing rules and regulations.
SEC. 25. Separability Clause. – If any part, section or provision of this Act is held invalid or unconstitutional, other provisions not affected thereby shall remain in full force and effect.
SEC. 26. Repealing Clause. – All laws, decrees, Orders, issuances, rules and regulations contrary to or inconsistent with the provisions of this Act are hereby repealed, amended or modified accordingly.
SEC. 27. Effectivity. – This Act shall take effect fifteen (15) days after its publication in at least two (2) newspapers of national circulation.
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i would disagree of this bill because it gives every woman specially the teenager to have the rights and free access to abort the baby inside the womb of the mother R.H bill is not the answer to eliminate the our population it should be bias of this bill let us remember that killing baby inside the womb it’s just like give us to free and legalized the murder in our society baby is not an animal is a human and our constitution mandated that every people has the right to fight for there freedom to live not killings. In china abortion is legalized but we dont follow them because it will lead to put the nation into fire’s of hell.
In which part does this bill say that abortion is legalized? I think the bill is reasonable.
Read Section 10. “Contraceptives.. are essential medicines…” You read it but you don’t understand it.
Contraceptives is a form of abortion? I think you are still living in the dark ages! Ignorant fool!
Ask the OCP and IUD companies (or even the obstetricians) how these things work, then come back to us and tell us who is ignorant and fool.
Oh…and ask microbiologists also if you still don’t understand.
Okay, I know you will not do that even over the phone, so I will just tell you. Life begins at the moment of conception. All honest scientists, constitutions, and religions agree on that. Now, conception refers to to the moment where the spermatozoon permeates the ovum. The process is also called fertilization, although contraceptive and abortion propagandists desperately deny it.
Now, the Pill, IUD, and other contraceptives make the uterine wall hostile to the zygote (fertilized ovum), and as a result, the human zygote dies and is being flashes outside the womb.
In short, millions of human beings are being killed using the so-called contraceptives.
Any protests? I’ll go back with the previous suggestions.
forgive me if i’m being ignorant, but by definition, doesn’t contraception mean ‘prevention of conception’? and by that definition, if there was no conception in the first place, it would not be an abortion? most contraceptives work that way, they prevent conception from ever occurring.
i also think you are confusing contraceptives with abortifacients which are medical drugs that induce abortion.
the rh bill does not, in any way, promote the use of these abortificients. it clearly says so right there in the bill itself.
I forgive you. However, this issue has been explained over and over again. Anyway, let me just quote this one for you:
“Other possible secondary mechanisms [of OCPs] have been hypothesized. One example is endometrial effects that prevent implantation of an embryo in the uterus.” – Wikipedia
Conception – “the act of becoming pregnant; fertilization of an ovum by a spermatozoon.” – wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Abortion – “termination of pregnancy” – wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
You are right, contraceptives are supposed to prevent conception, but that is not always the case here. Instead of preventing conception (fertilization), it prevents implantation in some cases, so it acts as abortifacient rather than contraceptive.
well then there you go, let’s filter out all methods/medicines and allow only those that act before conception, let’s make all ‘contraceptives that in some cases act as abortifacients’ illegal.
Yes, that could be one. But tax issue is another. No more babies will die from these contraceptives-abortificients but all true Catholics will still be violated if the government will use their tax pesos for contraceptive purposes. So another filtration will be made — between Catholic taxes and non-Catholic taxes.
Employers should also be filtered — those who are willing to supply contraceptives to their employees and those who are not.
Health care providers should also be classified into two — those who believe they can conscientiously do a contraceptive procedure like vasectomy and tubal ligation, and those who interpret this as a violation of the Hippocratic Oath.
Family organizations and associations should also be consulted first as mandated by the Constitution.
Section 21 of the bill should be entirely re-drafted because this is anti-democracy.
But then again, are these suggestions practicable? I don’t think so. PPF will not allow it; Lucile Packard will not allow it; PLCPD will not allow it, and so Edcel Lagman.
i totally agree that it is impractical. especially the part where you have to filter out catholic vs non-catholic taxes. that’s not just impractical, it’s down right crazy.
i mean, it’s clear that many catholics are against this bill, but then a great percentage of catholics do support it too. so do we have to filter those out too?
no matter. ultimately, wouldn’t it be the individual’s choice? i mean yeah let’s say my employer hands out a box of condoms, the bill doesn’t really state that i will be prosecuted if i don’t use it, right?
nice comment
in one way or another, all of us violet what the Catholic Church teaches. i believe many catholic believers knew very little about what our faith teaches on such issue. no wonder that many easily agrees on rhbill. but some who really knowledgeable enough of what the Church teaches, i admire you. for those nominal believers, don’t speak too much especially against your faith, for you do not know your faith yet. you are just catholic by name but not yet in faith.
I like reading your comments dude. wish all of us here are as proactive as you… you know, instead of being cynical and the likes….
contraceptives main action is to deter fertilization, but this doesnt happen all the time. but if it does they will act as abortifacients in killing the fertilized egg or embryo = casing abortion
there you go, you just stated the difference between contraceptives and abortifacients.
How can you abort, or “terminate pregnancy”, if nothing has been conceived yet?
I realize pro Rh people, do not care about life and they do not care if they killed an embryo…tao po yan..tiniest form of ourselves. They do not care about God at all. Only God can take away life, remember this.Do not mock the law of God.Fear Him for even if we know that God is merciful, He is also a God of Justice.We do not live forever, our souls will….where u spend that..is up to God, so we should respect life as God respected us and honored us by giving us this gift of life.God saw us all. And He will make sure those embryos killed be given justice in this life or next by those who said, they were not important and does not deserve to live.
ang alam ko kasi, hndi ka pa napatay nga tao nun. Well, ung pagkakaintindi ko kasi eh ipprevent ung fertilization. let’s say na a mothe have been taking pills for months then his husband do love making.. if that woman have been taking the pill for months there is only .1% chance na mabuntis siya. well do you think fertilization will occur kung wala naman pong egg na mamemeet yung sperm? and as we all know life takes place DURING fertilization. Its not like wla pong pakialam sa buhay ng tao ung mga PRO people.. may RH bill man kasi o wala eh umuuso pa din yang abortion na yan. ndi lang dahil sa teenage pregnancy or unwanted pregnancy, may ibang factors na din na kasama yun. Hindi ko din naman pong sinasabi na Life is a choice, kasi dapat yung mga gumagawa ng bagay na yun e handa na talaga sila at wala ng ayawan. Lets face the reality na palala na talaga ng palala yung sitwasyon ng bansa. one way of bringing up some progess in our contry is the population, and yes, ndi ko sinabi na tanggalin ung corruption kasi ndi na matatanggal yan e. some may think na kaya inilunsad tong RH bill e dahil sa gusto lang magkaproyekto ng ilang senador and hndi naman natin maaalis yun. Pero this idea may help us. DISCIPLINE, yan talaga yung way of success para sa issue na ito pero wala naman pong mkakagawa nun. mahirap gawin ang tama.
YOU BETTER KNOW FIRST WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE WORD ABORTION..
You are right. I think people just confuse abortifacients with contraceptives. They can get all the definitions of every terms used here but they still can’t understand.
do not focus on the meaning of it… focus on the process of those contraceptives
Sorry to disturb you but I just want to share my opinion as a 15-year old teen. You see we are all witnesses of over population and each of us are engaged to it. This overpopulation is just the effect of the carelessness of Filipinos, majority of us. Sex were supposed to be for MARRIED couples and nothing more. RH Bill is a desperate attempt of the government to control the population explosion. Being a last-ditch effort doesn’t make it any correct. Problem on Population is a result of people’s irresponsible attitude towards sex, doing it for pleasure, for leisure, for business, for attaining means, and not doing it for the very sacred purpose it was created for. Population explosion can be addressed through family planning. Family planning has many ways, there are natural ways, there are invasive ways. The church does not oppose family planning for as long as men use the natural ways of birth control. People behind the RH BILL should know and remember this.
You see, if PNoy is really that smart, and still has that Respect for God, or even for the beliefs of his Catholic countrymen, he would and need to know that there are OTHER ways much more safer than this RH Bill to prevent Population explosion that would never be against the Law of God.
I am an Anti-RH Bill. FIRM.
You fuckin’ idiot you’re dragging religion into this and guess what this isn’t about fuckin’ religion.All Catholics that Muslims are that, its about helping people not having accidental babies and making them poorer. Catholic countrymen my ass what about people who aren’t catholics ? how about people who are atheists ? I thought this country had justice in it ? .. pfff ” I am an Anti-RH Bill. FIRM” if those words were written on paper I’d shit on them right now .. you’re fuckin bullshit.
You must have self control instead of vice. Your words would say of who really you are…
If we put aside Religion and follow the so called “morality” the bill is against of it.
Can you put the blame on the baby on the mistake that was made by the person who conceive it, and of those who made the women conceive a child?
Brother, all we need is to control of ones self….
David… can you wash your mouth with DETOL or Muriatic Acid rather.
There is still a lot to learn, kiddo! Your argument is rather on the topic of pre-marital sex and not on population control itself. Young and idealistic are indeed two peas in a pod. Try reading the provisions of RH bill (although in the context of your argument, 15yr olds shouldnt be allowed to read such bills since this will bring you to the topic of sex education so you can just stay as you are and be ignorant as you are). Ignorance excuses no one! 🙂
you say that there are still other ways on how to prevent the population explosion so can you cite some aside from this bill which can be applicable for the mind set of the filipino people? you keep on complaining about the bill, but can you find any solution to the problem as a replacement to the bill you are complaining? natural method of family planning is not that effective for the Filipinos even though it has been a long time that it is present. it is evident in the state of our population right now.
I admire the ideas of this 15-year old who saw through all these —- beyond contraceptives and abortion. A greater issue here is that the youth now need to be guided and informed about their sexuality and its effects on the macroeconomy. What isabella saw is that the bill neither endorses the views of a particular religious sect since these are universal ideals. And she suggests that the probably there are other ways of controlling population than just the RH bill.
have you even considered the effect of the growing population to the environment? really, if you do not address population growth, we’ll all end up dead sooner or later, when the earth reaches its carrying capacity.
im not saying to kill humans. but the choice of use of contraceptives is one’s right.
have you ever considered the relationship of the growing population to increasing consumption vis-a-vis the limited earth’s resources?
you are so much concerned about millions of humans being killed by using contraceptives. what about those millions of animals and other resources killed by humans for their own gain? the earth does not have an unlimited supply to support such numbers of humans.
The discussion on this blog had already gone very far on discussing diff aspects. If this is your first time here, I encourage you to read the opinions and facts presented here by different people. Such as:
RH Bill is weapon of Satan
Overpopulation is being used here by Satan
The world is not overpopulated
Contraception is not a solution to overpopulation and poverty
Contraception is a coerce from UN and other influential countries
UN is evil.
Contraception is a sin
the catholic church is the real evil! Their teachings are very very far from reality!
By the way you argue about correlation between population growth and hunger, I bet you are living in urban area like Manila. That’s where the problem lies. The population density (persons per square meter) of NCR is truly high. But if you look at the entire Phil population density, it is not so. So don’t be so scared. You just happen to live in an area where people flock in. Look at the provinces, they have lesser people in there because many goes to urban for living.
I agree.
http://pinoyearner.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/populasyon-at-pag-unlad/
Look at the provinces, they have lesser people in there because many goes to urban for living. yes that’s correct but look at the kind of living they have.
It’s not about population control, it’s population DEVELOPMENT. People don’t push for RH JUST BECAUSE they’re scared of hunger. It’s all about informed choices.
Agree to this totally, it’s essentially information dissemination after all, and look at the health care benefits that goes with this bill. seriously, stop staying in the dark ages
I understand how there are many open places in the provinces, where many people can stay, but consider how much of it is fertile farm land, or for fresh water, or areas generally unsafe for human habitation. To replace farm areas with more homes and such will give us limited land for food, limiting our food supply, increase prices of said food. All of this leads to more poverty, more people going hungry, and more pain for our people. You think that people making homes in the province is easier when they don’t even have enough money to support themselves.
non sense
Don’t angry ha.! But I would just like to say that there are misconceptions with your comment!
You like to know why? Just ask and I’m willing to share my opinion… ^^
you’re right.. but it doesnt mean that contraceptives are form of abortion..
contraceptives as abortifacient is a false claim. they lie to scare people away from the RH Bill. and n obody believes them.
That is not what researchers say. According to iVillage Health website:
I assume you know when life begins.
I AGREE WITH SO HARD TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT MOSTLY RELATED TO THE MEDICAL FIELD..
I think you need to have more researches and more formal “medical” education before you can conclude all things. Don’t just rely on wikipedia, you should open medical books instead and try to understand what you read.
🙂
..yeah your right, I STRONGLY AGREE ON THAT.. some people are just killer, ..they dont have conscience. Probably, if their mother uses contraceptives when they were inside its womb, they should have not live and let RH Bill pass.
The classical definition of the word “contraception” comes from the Latin (contra = opposed to, and concepto = conceive.
The most common forms of contraception today — IUDs, low-dose oral contraceptive pills, which are the safest type of oral contraceptive pills available — act as abortifacients. abortifacients end the life of the early developing human being after the sperm and egg have been united.
and what do you know about the dark ages? in fact a lot of great minds lived during that time without them we would not have the foundation to what we know today.
so condoms are ok? because it prevents the meeting of the egg and sperm?
a contraceptives is not a form of abortion.you should read first before you make an opinion about it.this is how it works.
The primary mechanism of action of COCs is the inhibition of ovulation. The release of an egg, which commonly occurs in the middle of the menstrual cycle, is prevented by COCs. Two hormones produced by the pituitary, a gland located at the base of the brain, coordinate the development and release of an egg from the ovary. One is follicle stimulating hormone, abbreviated FSH, and the other is luteinizing hormone, or LH. A surge in both of these hormones ordinarily occurs in the middle of a woman’s menstrual cycle. The surge in LH is the trigger for ovulation. COCs inhibit the production of both FSH and LH and consequently prevent ovulation.3
In the very rare cases where ovulation may occur, another contraceptive mechanism of COCs acts to prevent fertilization. COCs have an effect on the cervical mucus. The progestin contained in COCs causes the cervical mucus to become thick and prevents sperm penetration; the sperm can not pass through the cervix and fertilization cannot take place.
Well, I suggest for you not to focus on this (the topic about abortion, contraception, etc.) Instead, focus on it’s impact to development.
I agree…
Birth control is an umbrella term for several techniques and methods used to prevent fertilization or to interrupt pregnancy at various stages. Birth control techniques and methods include contraception (the prevention of fertilization), contragestion (preventing the implantation of the blastocyst) and abortion (the removal or expulsion of a fetus or embryo from the uterus). Contraception includes barrier methods, such as condoms or diaphragm, hormonal contraception, also known as oral contraception, and injectable contraceptives.[1] Contragestives, also known as post-coital birth control, include intrauterine devices and what is known as the morning after pill.[2]
Control is far more different from abort..
So this means that COCs prevents conception? If this drugs would be available to everybody, do you think they would abuse it? so if they abuse it what would happen to our population? Would the government repel this Act again when we would suffer the same fate as Bangladesh. Begging the people to produce more babies to save their economy.
you are the one who is a fool idiot,,moron.. find the meaning of contraceptive first…
Urak I agree with you! She is an ignorant fool like a good number of these idiots who automatically reject something they have not read or even made an intellectual thought on the subject matter.
well I just don’t like how the church would threaten a punishment of excommunication to those who support the RH bill especailly the president, that is how popes control king and rulers in the dark ages, I do not approve of such means
yahh! they are ignorant!
contraceptives is NOT ABORTION! its a way to prevent pregnancy and not to abort a baby. The bill clearly states
g. Reproductive Health Care
4. Prevention of abortion and management of post-abortion complications;
Ignorant fool!
NAKIKINIG KA BA TUWING NAGMIMISA ANG PARI?
TANGA:(
how come the contraceptives becme a medicine?is there an illness that needs to be cured?
the use of medicine is not limited to curing an illness or a disease, it can be also used as a control (ex. post operative pain) or prevention (taking prophylaxis to prevent acquiring communicable disease)
what do you mean by saying that “contraceptives are essential medicines..?” thus it mean, that, in order for us not to interrupt our urges to have sex we need to comply with such unethical idea? we are not just simple animals. in fact, animals follow the nature that is exclusively theirs. the dogs for instance, follow the seasons when will be the right time of meeting. animals have just instinct not reason.what about us? if animals can fast, why not humans?
WTF!!.. IT DOESNT MEAN THAT IT USE AS AN ABORTIFACIENT.. CONTRACEPTIVES LIKE PILLS HAVE A THERAPEUTIC EFFECT OTHER THAN PREVENTING PREGNANCY, BUT IT MAY BE BENEFICIAL TO THOSE WHO HAVE A IRREGULAR MENSTRUAL CYCLE WHICH FERTILITY IS DIFFICULT.. THINK ABOUT IT..
fool!…i know u want it be passed because you too want to share the advantages that are being offered… 🙂
you have just give the best good result about what you have just learned or known.but the side effect of that contraceptives is much worst than you have thought…
try surfing the web more often..and you’ll find several studies about the NEGATIVE effects of contraceptives..now what’s essential medicines again??
Contraceptives are safe for use.
but contraceptives either condom nor pills have big effects in your health in can cause cancers etc.
if you will not believe in what i have just post, just ask the specialist or mindful doctors..t.y.peace
section 10 didnt talk about abortion.. it is refering to the medcines that is used to avoid conception but not to abort the conception..
how could a contraceptives become an essential medicine? you take a pill in order to regulate your natural flow of your hormone? is that an essential medicine? instead of letting the hormones go into its natural process, it is being regulated artificially by contraceptive pills, is thatessential medicine?
how could a contraceptives become an essential medicine? you take a pill in order to regulate your natural flow of your hormone? is that an essential medicine? instead of letting the hormones go into its natural process, it is being regulated artificially by contraceptive pills, is that essential medicine?
If the main purpose of this bill is to eliminate poverty, I believe there is a better solution for this issue & not this bill. Do you consider contraceptives as a medicine? What do you think you are thinking, are we sick?… Talking about the problem of over population, I do believe that we can overcome this problem if we become true to ourself specially those who are in the position. We can simply supply the needs of the Filipinos with our natural resources & with our government funds. The problem here is instead of using those money of ours in government problems, our beloved officers used this money for their personal interest. Another is we never spend wisely. There’s a lot of government programs there that results to nothing… We just wasted those thousands of sacks of rice & those medicines.
Rh bill may not be the direct solution for poverty but, it is one, it may be one of the solutions, because poverty is a enormous problem faced by our country and, there’s no single solution for it.
right, (excerpt from Ina Barrameda’s Letter for a politician) Poverty is not caused by over population. Poverty is caused first and foremost by inefficient Leadership. If you take a look at the root of it all you will see that the ruin of the Society has never been caused by the people. —-It is atrocious how people, esp. the poor ones, are seen as the stumbling block to this country’s progress, Is it the poor who steal billions of pesos of tax payer’s money?…….. maybe instead, of blaming the innocent, we should be pointing our finger in another direction. it is so easy to manipulate the words to justify one’s actions and incapability, and then put the blame on the Victims. In fact the single most important resource in a country is human resource. — the Bigger the population, the more people there will be for work. the more people there will be to consume.correspondingly, if you have less people, there will also be less output. —– Overpopulation is nothing but a myth used as a scapegoat by powerful people as a way to continue their inefficient agenda….
Let’s all act as what god told us.. it’s not about religions or political views and morality… it’s Conscience.
You’re right. But RH bill is one of the ways out of poverty —- by giving people especially the young ones adequate information about their sexuality (rights and obligations). The bill wants to give everybody a choice whether or not to use contraceptives or not; and whether to use natural or modern methods.
As to your myth of overpopulation, you are partly correct. It is rather the unequal sharing of resources that causes hunger. So how do you solve it? Convince the rich to feed the poor?
It doesn’t also follow that the lesser people have lower output. How is it that one European farming household can feed at least five more households, whereas it takes two Filipino farming households to support a family. That is because of technology.
Overpopulation maybe a myth but we need to somehow control population growth.
Why blame the government for the stupidity of its own people. The Lord said ” Go and multiply your flock”. It means go and teach the world the teachings of God and expand your believers. NOT GO AND MAKE MORE BABIES!!!!!
The RH bill declare that contraceptives are essential medicines. If they are what illness do these contraceptives treat?
bobo! Contraceptives is used before intercourse, no life in the womb yet, hence, it is not abortion. Read and understand before your comment.
I think we have a misunderstanding with ” Contracentives… are essential medicine..” The bill doesn’t literally mean “essential” as in we cannot live without it. It means with respect to the bill itself it is essential, a necessity. Why? Because it is what the bill promotes,, (correct me if i’m wrong)…the use of contraceptive to promote reproductive health and population dev’t. Just imagine, how can you promote the bill without contraceptives ( well if the gov’t wants to go with natural control what can i say).
have you read the bill???
I agree with this Bill, contraceptive is different from Abortion. We should be very open to this issue because this may be the way for Philippine development.
TERESA,
TRUE, AS IT IS WRITTEN CONTRACEPTIVES ARE ALLOWED AND PROMOTED IN THE RH BILL.
HOWEVER MANY CONTRACEPTIVE MEDICINES CAN ALSO ACT AS ABORTIFACIENT. BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT FUNCTIONS. YOU CAN READ ABOUT IT IN MEDICAL JOURNALS, PROBABLY IN MEDICINE TEXTBOOKS.
YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE OF IT , BUT SOME PILLS COULD ACTUALLY BE KILLING YOUR UNBORN BABY (WELL ACTUALLY NOT A BABY YET, BUT IF IT IS NOT GIVEN A CHANCE TO GROW IN THE MOTHER’S WOMB.. IT WILL NEVER BE A BABY.
Pills can kill the unborn baby if and only if you had intake the pill without consulting first to any obstetrician-gynecologists.
korek.. i believe that these bill will contribute a lot, and help minimized the problems being face by the country.. and i believe that the bill has enough reason why they need to pursue it.!!
there is that thing called “mask provisions”.. it means cunning, deceiving…they are mostly used to lead to another provisions or interests of the authors..
it may not directly say that it is pro-abortion but indirectly, it does kill.
if its not written in the law, then it is not allowed. in fact the rhbill actually states abortion is illegal. how much more direct can it be?
i don’t understand why people keep on insisting on imagining things that are not there.
this bill gives people an opportunity to make sex like an animal does…there is no more sacredness.
section 4 specifically letters k and l pointed out the legalization of abortion,,,materials and trained personnel were provided in that section to do such kind of act. this bill absolutely i say is not for the protection of women but for them to be destroyed…
you must understand that the RH bill is against the universality of morality.
says who?
Moral Universalism is the meta-ethical position that there is a universal ethic which applies to all people, regardless of culture, race, sex, religion, nationality, sexuality or other distinguishing feature, and all the time. A universal ethic is a moral system that applies universally to all of humanity, and thus transcends culture and personal whim. The source or justification of this system is variously claimed to be human nature, a shared vulnerability to suffering, the demands of universal reason, common themes among existing moral codes, or the mandates of religion
—http://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_moral_universalism.html—
that is a philosophical thesis, not all may believe it. neither do we know if it’s for real or the truth. that is what a philosophy is at its core .
a philosophy is like religion, one has a group of believers and non believers. in religion for example there is no universal agreement on many things, like for example who is God, heaven, hell, etc.
it is egocentric for the church to say that “natural law” is universal.
How do you know about Philosophy? Your view is an egoistic approach even. You are opposing what is universal. The morality of that the Church is saying in on the line of Filipino values. A moral value that is universally accepted by the Filipinos. Take away its universality, there would be no longer order on the understanding of what is moral and what is not. People would do on what is moral for them is moral. A self centered morality basing upon the measure of human selfishness.
you don’t even know what my philosophy is and you are already saying its egoistic. lol
Are you following Albert Camus’ philosophical idea on absurdism…?
Obviously you did not read the entire bill. It clearly states that abortion will remain a crime, but caring for women who underwent post abortion will be given in a humane and compassionate way. This bill shows that the country is headed in a progressive way in enforcing the rights of women. Actually, not only women, but couples and all individuals who want to have better access to information for family planning which does not limit to the “ineffective rhythm method” but to other methods/devices for birth control. This bill will ensure the prevention of widespread STDs and infanticide for the marginalized groups.
What do you want then, treat them as harshly as possible or worse, let them die? do you honestly think that this is just?
i don’t think there is anything wrong in caring for women who underwent abortion in a humane way. treating them harshly will not give any justice at all, in the same vein that treating them AS HUMANS and giving them the proper treatment do not necessarily mean that we promote abortion. even the most cold blooded criminal have rights too, and so do these women.
“hindi maitatama ang pagkakamali ng isa pang pagkakamali.”
please grow up.
May I ask a question, Is there a woman who went to the process of abortion who got imprisoned? If there’s not, how can we say that they are treating abortion as a crime? hmmmm.. just a thought…
No, the RH bill does not “clearly” states that abortion will remain a crime. Besides, it does not have the power to decide whether it will remain a crime; only a change in the Constitution can make that. Instead, it just recognizes the “status of abortion” in the Philippine law. Actually, the line, “as abortion remains a crime and is punishable,” is deceptive. It conditions the mind of the readers that the bill confirms the absolute criminality of abortion, while it does not and it cannot. The purpose is to make it look like an anti-abortion bill. In reality, the law on abortion “may” change; it just needs a charter change. One of the problems with just reading the text of HB5043 is that it would be more difficult to see the intentions of those who “really” wrote it and what are the influences behind it.
Do we really need to have an additional law in order for the health care providers to be humane and compassionate? Do we need another bill just to have the government give enough budget for the facilities needed to treat post-abortion complications? And where is the right of women placed in the bill? Who really profit from condom, the pill, IUDs and other contraceptives? Is it not those men who cannot master their flesh and those who look at their wives as if they are sex gadgets — objects of pleasure?
Furthermore, what do women experience just to give inordinate pleasure to their husbands (or to men)? Answer: the side effects and risks of contraceptives which the RH bill obviously and commonsensically does not mention. Have you still not heard about the significant number of side effects of OCPs? How about the link between condom use and pre-eclampsia? It just happened that I was a medical transcriptionist, and obstetrics and gynecology is not very foreign to me. Now, please decide: with the pleasure that men get and the risks that women suffer (or at least have the possibility to suffer), where is the women’s right placed in the RH bill?
But one of those things that puzzle me the most is the concept of STD protection. These are my questions: [1] How absolute is the protection that condom use gives to prevent STDs? Of course, it is not 100% even if it is used 100% correct. Why would a law encourage people to risk their health just to have sex? What it suggests is that man should accept that self-mastery is a fantasy. “Why suffer no-sex even when you are sick if you can protect yourself and others by using condom?” Is it not the idea? Okay, let us assume that it is impossible for human to control sexual urge, what do you think will happen to him if his/her whole body are already blisters and ulcers, can he still have sex? Will he die if he cannot? Will they design a whole body condom for him? This bill pushes people to degrade themselves instead of helping them recognize their true dignity as person. [2] And why, why, why do the proponents of this bill propose that condom use will protect couples from infecting each other? Where would the infection come from? Why would your husband or your wife be infected by STDs if you are not sick? Some fools might say, “It is just for protection.” You would protect yourself from your partner because you think there might be a possibility that you both do not know that he/she is infected? Come on! That is so, so, so insensitive! If you want to be sure that the person you will marry is not sick, is it not wise to have a checkup before the wedding instead of throwing away money to the trash bin together with semen when you are already married? If this was done and both of you were proven healthy, why would you need to protect yourselves from STDs? Those billions of peso that the government will use to satisfy men’s carnal and irresponsible desires can surely create livelihood and dignified life for the citizens instead. Even unholy fathers know what to give to a child if he/she is asking for a fish or an egg. If your child asks of these from you, will you give him condom or pill instead? I will not. But can good character, industry, self-mastery, and generosity help a family? It can and it will.
RH bill is proposing a wrong solution to a real problem. Why? Because its proponents do not recognize the real issues. In the Philippines, projects mean corruption. That is true from the executive down to the barangay level. Why give billions of taxpayers’ money to this unnecessary, destructive, and corruption-prone proposal?
Do we still need to discuss the other parts of the text? I already read the bill way back to its first publication on http://jlp-law.com, and I still repeatedly read it. I even proofread and corrected my copy, which all of the online sources I saw do not (or at least failed to notice the errors). The principle of the bill applies to the whole document; that is to say, the intentions of those who wrote it are clear in every word that was used through the entire script. And what is this principle? DECEPTION. Representative Edcel Lagman can help us prove that. The congressman insists that “fertilization of the ovum is not the same or synonymous to conception.” The purpose of the claim is to prove that RH bill does not violate Article II Section 12 of the 1987 Constitution of the Republic of the Philippines, which says, “The State shall protect human life from the moment of conception.” Again, I am not a doctor but I am not medically illiterate either. And besides, this is not the only part of the Constitution that RH bill attempts to violate.
This bill is not about discouraging people from overcoming their sexual urges (even if you believe it is something to overcome; I personally don’t). It’s about protecting those that choose to listen to their urges. It’s about giving people a CHOICE. Choice is a fundamental human right. Take away choice, take away humanity.
Take away self mastery and you’re taking away humanity. Would you like to protest?
problem is, not all people are like you..self master..only people with access to right education can do that, problem again is, not all people had that, and if you think there is a chance that time will come that everybody will have the right education (or the best one if you will) and become self masters (like you i presume), then you are correct..problem is again, ancient masters have been wishing that since time immemorial which brings us back to the problem..there are too many of us..what do we do? eliminate them? of course not..that would be against self mastery..but can we minimize the growth of the population? yeah i think we can, if we are self masters..don’t do your wife unless you want to have a child (of course the wife should agree with you once you decide to it with her, if not, then don’t..she might feel that you are using her as a sex object)..otherwise you are not a self master..but can we use other means that can prevent conception while we do it? hmm..i don’t know..what do you think master? enlighten us..what is the solution to our growing problem of over population…?
“problem is, not all people are like you..self master”
So the solution is to remain slaves? With your statement, you are approving that to take away self-mastery is to take away humanity but you still want to present another option. Aside from being human, do we have another option? What is that? To be animals? What you’re really saying is that not all human beings can be humans.
“only people with access to right education can do that”
Only people with access to right education can be human? Hmmm…you have a point there, but if I am not mistaken, you are referring to scholastic education, which in reality is not really helping us that much when it comes to self-mastery or being human. Academic schools teach us academic skills, of course. Values education comes from home and church. It’s ironic that the RH bill even wants to snatch these right and duty from them – another reason why it should not be passed as a law. You don’t need lots of money to have morality. You can’t buy one anyway. Or else, I assume that you’re suggesting poor and uneducated people are automatically immoral or slave or not human.
You are trying to make a series of unfortunate events, but unfortunately (or maybe fortunately, I should say), you have used a wrong link and it has disconnected everything.
“what is the solution to our growing problem of over population…?”
What is overpopulation, by the way? Who are the sources of that concept? Have you proven its existence? Can you show us the proof? Rather, it is because of its popularity that it became “true”. “If the US say it, it must be true!” In any problem, the first step is to prove that the problem exists. Now, if you will say that the country’s economic poverty is the proof of overpopulation, then the conclusion is wrong. A country is not poor because there are many people, and it is not rich because there are few people.
Think of this. If you are working 20 hours a day, would it automatically make you rich? No. Wage rate is a factor. Environment is a factor. Expenditure is a factor. Attitude towards money is a factor. And if you are being robbed everyday, will your P1-million-per-month income make you rich? Many in this country (and in other countries) are poor because some are too rich; because no one wants to be his brother’s keeper. (Now, don’t take the word “no one” literally.) If the wealth of the country is distributed with proper equation, nobody should be hungry. You might say, “Well, that’s a good dream that cannot come true.” Yes, it will not come true because instead of addressing the real problems, we choose to blame the issue to other things such as population and lack of resources, for the sake of convenience. If we are really looking for the true solution, the best thing is to open a table for suggestions, instead of ignoring everyone else and proposing family-related policies, violating the rights of families and family associations / organizations, and disrespecting the Law of the Land. Edcel Lagman and company’s behavior is surely not the answer, and is actually a very bad example.
you are right. scare mongers want to use the too-much-population-causes-hunger silly argument. It is easy to understand by the dumb majority but it is always an stupid argument. the problems always lies with MONEY. as long as Central Bank produces unlimited fiat money, poverty will never be solved because there will always be transfer of wealth and sweat from middle class and poor to few rich and elite bankers.
@vanillae,
I just want to second the motion regarding what you’ve said, because you’re definitely right, population is not the problem, and we are not poor because of overpopulation, let me sight an example, what about China, China I think has the most quantity in terms of population yet they are a progressing country, it is because people and government there choose to solve the problem by thinking of good and beneficial solution and not by passing a law for a “problem” that is really not a problem and what vanillae have said, may really not exist. poverty is not because of population, it is people choose to be poor and government choose it to let it be just that way. RH bill is not needed by this or by any country.
excuse me? are you aware of 1 child policy of china? and if ever you want more than 1 child, then you have to pay a big amount of money to do so! pls research first before you comment!
CORRECT!!!!! That is why there are TONS of CHINA – CHINESE here in the Philippines and they are taking the advantage that they can have more children here.
You’re right. We should keep the table open. But while we’re at it, the RH bill could be a way out of poverty by addressing the ballooning population. And the PopCom could already devise the curriculum for 5-graders to HS seniors about population education.
Sad to say however that instead of constructive suggestions, wen end up debating and debasing each other’s ideas and resorting to name-calling.
Did I get you correct raye that husband can only have coitus with his wife for purposes of child bearing?
(just a word of advise to all who gave comment to please refrain from insulting each other)
this is the stand of the catholic church – sex is meant for procreation.
but sex is one of the basic human needs…we always here this in mass “go and multiply” people usually take it literally when in fact it means we should multiply in God’s belief…
this bill is not saying that we should refrain from bearing a child and that we should put an end to the human population…contraceptives are there but you are not really forced to use it if you don’t want to…this is not “the two child policy” even the family code of the Philippines say that you can have as many children as you want as long as you can provide their needs…
uwagan lng jud ka ky nkaingon ka ana nga basic needs ang sex
‘self-mastery’ would include the right to make your own choice. so if you take away someone’s right to choose, you take away their ‘self-mastery’, wouldn’t you think so?
Self mastery is “the conscious control of one’s behaviour”; it is going beyond one’s instincts and recognizing personhood — not letting the animal decide.
The right to make one’s choice, on the other hand, can make you choose not to master yourself.
Besides, in this country, everybody has his choice; he should be responsible about it, however.
so by that definition, people who cannot consciously control their behavior (people with psychological disabilities for example) are less human and more animal? i don’t think you’d agree with that at all… but i think that’s going off topic.
anyway, you raise a fine point when you mention responsibility. of course everybody should be responsible for his own choices and actions.
You are right, I would not agree with that at all. The quoted definition was, as was just said, quoted. It was not my own definition but I understand it anyway. People who have psychological disabilities are not less human just because they cannot consciously control their behavior. Their humanity is determined by their nature since they simply don’t have a choice like us to consciously act as humans. The people in the issue of human responsibility, on the other hand, are those who have normal mental status but choose to obey their instincts, instead, and disregard their moral sense. It is choosing to be more carnal than intellectual; slaves of drives instead of masters of it — in short, more of an animal than of a human.
but if they do choose (or give in, or whatever) to their uh… carnal instincts, but act on them in a manner that is responsible or moral. wouldn’t that would make them intellectual masters of themselves?
i would call it intellectual maturity (or whatever), and i would even rank it higher than ‘self-mastery’
yes we do have the right and power to choose what we want but did it ever occur to your mind that you might be choosing what is wrong for us? that’s why we have to pause for awhile and think twice. “nasa huli ang pagsisisi,,”
The bell highly promotes sexual urges by the use of contraceptive. Urges enjoyment anywhere and everywhere in anyway you like it. Human as we are must have virtue instead of vice. The answer of family planning is self control and not by the use of urges in order to promote good and save family planning. Yes! We all have choice and to choice must always be in line into free choosing. Thus it promotes freedom. But we must always remember that freedom must always be in line with morality. What the bell prates is on the immorality of such an act being done by the user. It may promote freedom to women but it may lead you to you used by such freedom.
its ridiculous to say the bill promotes sexual urges. all contraceptive methods are available today, no promotion of sexual urges are being done, unless you yourself feels sexual urges when you see a condom, a pill or think of NFP.
The act of intercourse by the use of contraceptives is against the essence of intercourse which is reproduction. The reproductive health Bill which purpose is on the family planning which includes the ideal family size at it is mentioned in SECTION 16. The act of doing this is out of its purpose which is to plan of having a child and not just for fun or shall I say urges between the doers of an act. Intercourse must only be for husband and wife legally married by the church and by law. To engage into an act of intercourse which is to fulfill such longings and not for procreation is what I object. There is nothing wrong on its purpose but the propose Bill is not the right thing to be given. The purpose and the way of exercising the Bill is not proper in it self.
An immoral act being done in a number of times is a vice. Too much attachment to a vice may lead to necessity.
If you are using contraceptive in doing that action, what is your purpose to have a child or to satisfy such needs? Of course…. your purpose is not to have a child, TAMA? Soooo…what is your purpose?
ask any married couple and they will tell you intercourse is not about making babies. they will tell you it is about giving and recieving pleasure from your partner, about expressing love to one another.
sex between two barren couples is not about having babies for example. or people who can no longer have babies because of age or illness. some couples who cannot have babies marry and it is not about making babies.
…..and that is my point, that situation is the problem. How much pleasure is they can give if the law has legally promulgate the usage of contraception…thanks for the situation… The Big question is that; is it moral to contra the biological make-up of our body just for the seek of pleasure?
very smart.
Very well written and rationally argued. This fascistic piece of legislation is iniquitous in the extreme. It authorizes, which is its intent, a vast unwanted and unwarranted tier of government to intrude upon the private domain of the individual in matters of human relationships and marriage, parenthood and all aspects of human sexuality, which are rightfully the proper domain and sovereignty of the individual alone. The covert and overt intention of this act is to assert the primacy of the state and to impose the will of the state upon the individual by duress and to enforce such with draconian and punitive measures. This is an evil piece of legislation which should be resist by any and every citizen who values their freedom and their sanity.
This fascistic piece of legislation is iniquitous in the extreme. It authorizes, which is its intent, a vast unwanted and unwarranted tier of government to intrude upon the private domain of the individual in matters of human relationships and marriage, parenthood and all aspects of human sexuality, which are rightfully the proper domain and sovereignty of the individual alone. The covert and overt intention of this act is to assert the primacy of the state and to impose the will of the state upon the individual by duress and to enforce such with draconian and punitive measures. This is an evil piece of legislation which should be resist by any and every citizen who values their freedom and their sanity.
I don’t know why STD was mentioned here!
oh really? but still, all sorts of arguments cannot hold water. are you sure that this bill will really ensure the prevention of widespread STD? from where did you get that assurance? i suppose the contrary is true. for each of us who is inclined on sex would do it every time the urges come. the holes of condom for instance, is bigger than sperm. so if that’s the case, how could you prevent STD? PRE, go back to basic, self control. make these people busy…meaning, give them something to do, that is work.that would surely help them. and the must important thing that the authority must do is to level up the standard or quality of education. that education is not about so much focus on sex as what they do today, but real one. how can you prevent the young not to be curious about sex if at their younger age you already awaken their mind of such activity which only adults are supposed to know? to tell you, there is time for everything. there are more serious problems in our country that are in need of urgent attention by our government. after all, what is beyond this rh bill? it’s more on money dudes… again and again…corruption is the root. everything is rooted in the heart of man.
why you people always believe that the government is too good that it can always take care of you? all the politicians and bureaucrats want is your tax money.
You know why it is ineffective? Because of lack of discipline! No, it’s not really that such rhythm method is ineffective. Yet, it’s only the couple who lacks discipline.
I agree with you soundjudgm when you mentioned “ineffective rhythm method”. Lot of Filipino women have irregular menstrual cycle and to rely only to church promoted natural method will only result to so many pregnancies. It is settled that abortion is a crime. In the same manner that using condom will definitely result to abortion. Legally, we need to know the kind of medicines used if it prevent the meeting of the sperm and the ovum or it kills them after their rendezvous.
If the microscopic holes of condoms measure 5 microns and the aids virus measure only 1 micron, how can condoms prevent aids? If pills and IUDs abort the life of the unborn from conception, how can these prevent killing?
the presence of microscopic holes in condoms is just a scare tactic that has not basis. stop spreading lies.
pope benedict recently said male prostitutes can use condoms. he had no worries on microscopic holes in condoms.
I salute you! those who are anti RH bill are closed-minded people. They are just like most of the roman catholics.
nope, in some way this Bill is good i think you should read the bill again for you to understand because abortion also remain as a crime it is punishable
You are being deceived by the wordings of this bill. It has no power to make abortion legal even if it choose to. Only a charter change can make that.
must be “against abortion” but what would happen to those who have undergone abortion? the people will even more get encouraged because the government will take care of them.
hahahahaha you dont understand the bill.. how come that teenagers has a free access to abort baby.. the bill is about contraceptives… hello… read it first dami mong alam tanga
I hate this Bill because it legalized contraceptives..
Let us do some definition..
Contraception come from the words “contra” and “conception.”
Contra-means against
Conception-means beginning of life or we simply say life
Therefore, the word contraception literally means against life..
Forbid me, but I would say that this RH Bill is for killers..
If this policy will be observe in our country, we will be oblige to kill, to become murderers of the unborn..remember, thou shall not Kill..
If you are a Catholic Christian or a Christian who lives with the Faith in Christ, the Bread of Life, the Son of God, you must not adhere to this Bill….. I warn you, the RH Bill is a rebellion against God, the Source of Life..
Praticallity?
Overpopulation is not really the problem of our country.. There are countries like Japan who have great number of people but have small land area yet they manage to become a Tiger economy country.. We have preferable population-land area ratio than that of japan..
In fact, population is an asset for a country.. Even on Ancient times until now, the pioneering country for civilization are those who have great number of population..
Health?
According to study, the HIV Virus is 5 times smaller than the diameter of the hole of a finest rubber… So, how can a condom prevent the disease?
abortion is not the solution neither the use of artificial contraceptives. instead of squandering the budget on the harmful waste that the “1st world countries” wanted to dump on us better construct new high ways,schools and public hospital as well increase the budget of the social services. the rh bill is diabolical since those persons who are in favour embraces the luciferian doctrines. conduct your research over at you tube, where there are many videos exposing the agenda of the satanic new world order. sad to say,there are world leaders involved in this. if we value our sovereignity of the nation, reject the rh bill before those with evil designs take over our national resources and lives. it promotes promiscuos behaviour too and the myth of safe sex which is so abdsurd!
“our constitution mandated that every people has the right to fight for there freedom to live” – it is correct. but as far as i know, from what i have read, legalizing abortion or killing is not what this bill is trying to implement. don’t be too narrow minded, open up your mind. RH Bill only gives us an option which is applicable in our daily lives. remember, only an option. still it is our own will should be followed.
I agree with you…. some people are so narrow minded….. they always think negative…. Now ask those people why they are suffering poverty they answer ” kulang sa budget ang kinikita ko, wala sila makain at dahil sa gobyerno na corrupt” but ask them this Ilan yung anak mo? ” 6″ “8” “10”… yun pala nagihirap ka eh… alam mo na kulang na ang budget mo pinarami mo pa ang anak mo….
bro, the rh bill is not an option, it does not give you a choice. it has mandatory provisions. which removes the choice of people, who believe that that parents are primary responsible for the moral upbringing of their children. It makes it mandatory for all school children from grade 5 to fourth year high school to attend lessons which inherently includes how to use condoms, contraceptives, and thereby teaches them that it is right to use these devices. these teachings fall under the moral upbringing principle. the rh bill will prevent and preempt the parents from exercising their right to teach their children the values about self discipline, self control. The rh bill counter-acts these moral values. it will teach children to do use condoms, pills etc. if you can not control your sex urges.. rather than teach them how to control these urges.
Also it has mandatory provisions that forces employers to provide their employers with these contraceptives. Where is the free choice there?
The proposed rh bill also penalizes anyone who would provide information which is contrary to the provisions of the rh bill (in the bill they call it misinformation) if passed into law anything that you say that is contrary to what the government say may be construed as misinformation. where is the freedom of speech there?
It gives couples the freedom to make an informed choice on the contraceptive method best suited for them.
IT IS CALLED LAW if it is passed because it is mandatory, there will never be a choice once you’ve been under a certain law. kaya nga tinawag na batas,kung mapapasa man, hopefully not, may choice ka ba pag batas ang nagsalita? think critically before you choose your side regarding this matter.
RH bill doesnt talk about legalizing abortion, its about wise decisions and controlling population. it focuses in using contraceptives and not aborting..
pls. think about what you are commenting…
With all due respect, Section 3 paragraph (m) of the Bill pertinently provides: “…While nothing in this Act changes the law on abortion, as abortion remains a crime and is punishable..” The Bill does not legalize the act of abortion neither does it promote the act stating that abortion remains a crime that is punishable by law. It must be emphasized that this proposed legislation puts a premium on the health and welfare of women by providing them with necessary information and the means to decide for themselves the number of children that they would have.
I request you therefore to carefully read the law first before making any hasty generalization. You must remember that you are not helping in the pursuit of an enlightened debate on the subject but rather causes confusion that misleads our fellow Filipinos.
Thank you.
kung ako ang presidente ng pilipinas, matagal na tong naging batas.
“Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s and to God what is God’s”
buti na lang hindi ka presidente at sana hindi ka maging presidente kahit kailan. FYI, kahit presidente ka hindi pwdeng basta2x pag gusto mong mgpasa ng batas eh magiging batas agad yun, may kongreso at senado na dadaanan yan, ilang session at pagpasa at debate ang dadaanan n’yan bago maging batas, so relax ka lang ah, hindi magiging batas ang RH bill, mananatili na lang yan as a bill and never a law, God Bless us all.
If you do not agree to the RH BIll and if you think that it is not an answer to population control, than what is? Please don’t tell me that there should be self-control because it is apparent in our society that there is no self-control and we cannot change what is human nature. This is the reason why RH Bill is passed because people could not control themselves. Let alone husbands who demand to practice their rights. I, myself, do not agree with the abortion part but that is why there are informed choices. The number of our population versus the income that each family is gaining is way out of balance. I am a catholic but I don’t see any action from the catholic church to alleviate poverty. Who provides livelihood programs? The government. The government is the one who finds ways to enhance our way of living. This is the same way. The government is only there to ensure that the citizens of the country can have a better future. If you have gone to the mountains where most people are illiterate, you will see most of them with, at least, a dozen children. Their reason? So that their children could work in the future and provide for them when they grow old and, mind you, these children could not be sent to school due to poverty. I also have seen several parents who physically abuse their children because they think it is discipline.These people are not ready for children, they had children because it is a part of marriage. Now, tell me, which is the greater evil? To control the population or to let the children be brought to the world without ensuring their future? Poverty is everywhere in our country, the government does everything in it’s power (minus the corruption) to alleviate this. What does the catholic church do about this? Well, they provide outreach programs. Yes, it helps but temporarily. Give a man fish and you feed him for a day but teach the man how to fish and you’ll feed him for a lifetime. This is what most people fail to see, the positive side of it. If the RH Bill should be passed it is to help the citizens of this country and if someone decides to have an abortion, it is not the governments fault but that will be the sin of the one who acted upon it. Temptation will always be there and it is not a sin. Temptation only becomes a sin when you give in to it. You really can’t expect your children to wear chastity belts, would you? Prudence and self-control can be taught by the parents and not by the government.
“Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion of a fetus or embryo from the uterus, resulting in or caused by its death.” so where is the “abortion” during intercourse using contraceptives? and if i’m right, you have the power to choose from natural or in modern way for family planning.it doesn’t mean that”we” who are pro RH bill don’t believe in god our creator. Pero mas kasalanan ata na mag anak ka ng mag anak tapos hindi mo na maibibigay ang pangangailangan ng bawat anak mo? sasabihin mo ngaun “e di wag mag anak ng madami” there is the point, family planning. ed under yun ng RH bill. Still it’s up to you kung pano mo gagawin ang family planning. isa pa, cguro ayos lang na pag aralan ang topic na ito sa school at dapat may guidance din ng magulang, oo ndi dapat gobyerno ang nagtuturo nito sa atin, pero lahat ba ng magulang e open pag usapan ang mga ganitong bagay? parang hindi naman. para rin ito sa ikabubuti ng ating bayan.
RH bill does not promote abortion, please read with understanding! RH bill is to protect every woman, children s health! i agree
yes! that is right
But it said: “Prevention of abortion and management of post-abortion complications”. If unwanted pregnancy could be avoided, then the need for abortion could be minimized.
“it gives every woman specially the teenager to have the rights and free access to abort the baby inside the womb of the mother” are insane? you didnt read the RH bill carefully.. abortion is not legal in Phil…so if this constitution have been said anything about it (you imply).. its contradict dude..;(
section 3 of this bill states that abortion is still an illegal act.
Kathrine, please be reminded that it’s a crime when you swiftly heave a brickbat on something without fully understanding it. Avoid giving comments based on your selfish vista. Read with comprehension and give out justifiable comments on this matter and all the issue you would like to throw comments to. God bless you!
Kathrine, please be reminded that it’s a crime swiftly heaving a brickbat on an issue. The problem with most of us is that we throw comments not based on factual ideas but based on our selfish vista and understanding. Please in-store in your mind that giving off factual comments on a certain issue isn’t a teensy-weensy propaganda. Use your wits appropriately and read with comprehension so that when you give comments, it’s not absurd. God bless!
The RH bill does not give anyone the right to abortion. Abortion will still be a crime punishable by law. RH bill will give free information on family planning and healthcare. What is so wrong with that? Should the information only be for the benefit of the rich and the poor be damned?
Talk to your maids and factory workers. They have so many children and no way to support them. At least give them a choice in life. Let them have the opportunity to live a comfortable life. In the end, it is still their choice whether or not to follow. But to inform them is not wrong at all.
I am Catholic and I love God, but this does not stop me from opening my eyes to the reality of life- which is poverty.
This is just stupid, all of you can oppose the RH bill but when women get raped you have a bigger chance getting charity from a street dog than the church, blaming the poor no not the poor just the overwhelming number of people around the phils rich or poor when you’ve got a tree that only gives 5 fruits a day and then you decide to make a another baby to feed from a family of five it turns to six is 5 fruits gonna be enough be an idiot and talk back to that. Moral faggots that what a lot of people are that’s why the philippines is still the way it is no one ever like to think in numbers EVER it’s always treasure this and treasure that(ooh so great the Filipino Value is) that’s why every sing sane person is desperate to get out of the country total hypocrites these people are they choose to keep the people ignorant to continue there own beliefs but when a beggar steps in front of there door every hides and asks the helpers to shoo them away you people should be ashamed of your selves. Lets keep the filipino way ooh yeah that’s a great idea don’t ever change it not even a single bit you don’t need statistics and fact to prove this one that’s why all show are filled to the Brim with God and Values and have been nothing but a cycle of drama,comedy,horror,drama,drama DRAMA but when you take look outside the street does anybody shelter the woman with 8 children ooh no let’s stay away from her she’d just stink up the whole house hypocrites all of you. All of you can keep on trying to fool yourselves by preventing this BIll and keeping the populace ignorant Heck Ban contraception from Condoms to Pills for all I care the philippines can just implode in itself no talk of Nationalism or Patriotism here not when the person next to you would try to steal your stuff if he/she could if given the chance, face Filipinos can sound all noble and justified in their speeches but one only needs to walk in the streets and ask anybody outside to find the truth out. Go ahead Philippines drop the RH bill be filled with clueless voters the more desperate and poor people exist the more politicians can pay to have them selves elected every time
Did I mention that the news suck 25% is full of nothing but ridiculous and worthless controversies of actors(how is that news?) cause life for the avarage filipino is so boring and worthless they have to latch them selves to the lives of celebrities
have you read the full article? or did you understand it? you are just over reacting. That is the problem for every Filipinos, there are always questioning something they do not fully understand.
Can you tell us, where or what part of the bill did you see that abortion will be legalize here in the Philippines? The bill only encourage every Filipino of using contraceptives as part of their family planning.
As you can see, our country is totally in doom, there is a great poverty, crimes, etc. And one reason for this is LACK of EDUCATION. Why does other people cannot go to school? One reason is because they are too many in the family, and their parents cannot handle it anymore. And this scenario often happens to the families which we classify as poorest of the poor. This scenario keeps on happening to them, as if it is a cycle.
Think about it, the government is just helping the nation to see the cure for our poverty.
This bill gives information to teenage women on prevention of conceiving babies not necessarily abort the baby. No abortion can occur when there is no baby conceived. This also makes people responsible.
“While nothing in this Act changes the law on abortion, as abortion remains a crime and is punishable, the government shall ensure that women seeking care for post-abortion complications shall be treated and counseled in a humane, non-judgmental and compassionate manner” – from section 3 of the RH Bill-
meaning….this does not change the laws of abortion, And abortion is punishable by law.
and does NOT give free access to abort the baby, the problem is not the RH Bill, the problem is the PEOPLE living in the mismanaged system of ours…. 😀
can you read first before commenting? it says “(5) Prevention of abortion and management of post-abortion complications”. That’s why debates like this don’t end. I think the bill is reasonable except for the exploitation of funds part.
Please read the Bill again. It clearly states it does not change the law on abortion. “m. While nothing in this Act changes the law on abortion, as abortion remains a crime and is punishable, the government shall ensure that women seeking care for post-abortion complications shall be treated and counseled in a humane, non-judgmental and compassionate manner.”
Have you really read the whole bill? Oh my god. Read the whole content before you say anything.
m. While nothing in this Act changes the law on abortion, as abortion remains a crime and is punishable, the government shall ensure that women seeking care for post-abortion complications shall be treated and counseled in a humane, non-judgmental and compassionate manner.
Can you please read the whole article first and understand it before making stupid comments… Abortion is only legalized if the mother is also at risk of dying and this is legalized in all hospitals even before the RH bill was proposed.. They are aiming to decrease the maternal mortality rate because a dead fetus inside a womb is a threat to its host.. please read again and understand.. if you can’t fully understand, better keep the comment to yourself.
The RH Bill does not state that abortion is allowed. It is clearly stated on Section 3 (m) that abortion is still illegal and is punishable by law. Also the RH Bill does not said about the ELIMINATION of our population. I think it is wise to read the whole bill first.
i wholeheartedly agree with this bill. it’s time to curb our population growth. population explosion is a real issue that we must address before it goes out of hand. population control may not be the be-all solution to our present woes, but it will take us a long way towards real development. more people means more mouths to feed, more food to produce, and more government money allocated for the welfare of these people. it thus compromises the quality of life of the filipinos.
to those who say that it’s anti-life and pro-abortion, read the text of the bill again. and get dictionaries if you don’t understand some terms. 🙂
This bill is not a solution to the population growth problem of the Phil. Discipline is. Killing the unborn is just Inhumane. Premarital is just Immoral. Plus as if Filipino people don’t use contraceptives, they do and still, look around, the population problem is still present.
hi anna, yes it may not be the solution to our population problem. having said that, this bill is a big first step in addressing our population growth.i think education is the key and this bill is pushing in that direction. killing the unborn for health reason – i.e. if the mother’s life is at risk- although a very hard decision on the parents part is not inhuman IMHO.
True education is a real answer to any problem, but RH bill is not about education but miseducation. What it wants to impart are wrong information that would serve to satisfy eugenicists, and would profit the contraceptive and abortion industry. Planned Parenthood’s 3.5 billion taxpayers’ dollars just since 1987 is the most crystal proof of this. And where do they use it? For education, supposed to be; but they are using it to kill babies instead. Do American protesters win? No! The government is on the side of PPF and PPF backs up Obama in particular. Now, don’t give me that naive answer that we are not America. Almost the whole world is America. Look at yourself and tell me that you are not America.
Now, the last statement is very prone to dilemma, I understand that. But let me disillusion everyone who believes as you do: THE UNBORN CHILD IS NOT LESS HUMAN THAN THE MOTHER. To actively kill the unborn for the sake of the mother is absolutely wrong. It is like saying that the child is less important. No one is less important.
Whether or not the unborn child is less human than the mother is relative.
Imagine: a pregnant woman is told that only one can live (either her or the baby). If I were her, I would definitely prioritize my life (because I am most definitely human) and not the life of the unborn child (because his or her humanity is still debatable).
The unborn child is human. And that statement is NOT RELATIVE. Even science acknowledges that fact– embryologists say that embryos are genetically fully human being at the point of conception. Even our law acknowledges that fact, under our Civil Code a conceived child are considered born for all purposes favorable to it.
Our law acknowledges it, yes, and I disagree with this.
It is not an established scientific fact. If it was, the whole abortion debate would be over. But it’s not.
I do not believe it is a child because it cannot function as an individual. I believe that abortion is an option until the first trimester is over.
Conception may mean the beginning of life, but I do not believe it means life itself.
Again, so much religion is injected into all of this!
“It is not an established scientific fact. If it was, the whole abortion debate would be over. But it’s not.”
That is so naive a statement. DNA is already discovered and explored by microbiology but Darwin debates are still not over (although in reality, Darwin’s theory is already debunked).
“I do not believe it is a child because it cannot function as an individual.”
So, dysfunctional people are not human? Zygotes and embryos are not parts of a woman’s body. They function on their own as their DNAs guide them. That’s a scientific fact.
“I believe that abortion is an option until the first trimester is over.”
Now it shows that you just don’t support contraception but also abortion. Let me inform you that abortion propagandists also started as pro-contraception and “anti-abortion”, then they gradually show their faces as advocates of first-tri abortion, then second-tri. Lastly, they said, “try again”, and pushed women to the limits of their confused consciences, then infanticide was introduced as a “good” thing.
“Conception may mean the beginning of life, but I do not believe it means life itself.”
This one is illogical. If you started a journey, will you say that you are not yet in the journey itself? When will you be – when you’re already at the middle?
This is not about religion, it just happened that you hate religion in your heart, and you believe that science (body of knowledge) and God (source of knowledge) are not compatible. Again, that is illogical.
one question:
darwin’s theory was debunked? really? says who?
don’t bother answering, it’s so off-topic anyways
I don’t want to leave you wondering, though.
Darwin believes that life is an undirected process. He called this process “natural selection”. A Darwinian named Ernst Haeckel even declared that the cell is just a “simple little lump of albuminous combination of carbon.”
The discovery of DNA, on the other hand, proves otherwise. Man’s life has an intelligent design.
Despite the scientific and established discoveries, natural selection is still under debates.
Okay, now, back to RH bill.
you are so inconsistent to what you are saying here… think first before you write…
So you mean an embryo has no life itself and it is not a child? And the beginning of life itself is not a life?! Well if you just know life begins at the stage of conception! A mother is pregnant if the sperm entered the egg cell. What about religion, they teaches us correctly though not fully! What is wrong with you is you stick to your own choice which is a very wrong one! my friend you need guidance of the Holy Spirit!
Debatable? By whom? Don’t you read the Constitution (even America’s)? What if some scientists debate over whether you are human or not, will you not protest for your life?
Let me remind (or rather educate) you that slaves were once treated as sub-humans. Does it mean that they are really sub-humans?
Do you know the word “conceive”? It is the beginning of something. Human conception is the beginning of human life. Is that debatable? How come?
I for one, would give up my life for my precious baby, even though as you said “his or her humanity is still debatable”?
and that’s my opinion for your statement!
sana hindi ka maging nanay. it just show how self-centered you are. you are willing to sacrifice the life of your own child just for your own, how selfish. ikaw naranasan mo ng mabuhay, bakit pipiliin mo yung buhay mo, pagdadamot mo sa anak mo na maexperience ang mundo and the beauty of life? I just really hope hindi ka maging nanay, kawawa magiging anak mo. God Bless you.
We had sex education in high school. And yet a lot of women in our class got pregnant during their teenage years and three women in our class alone underwent abortion. Sex education and information does not really work. In the USA, they have free access to information and contraceptives and YET THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST NUMBER OF TEEN PREGNANCY IN THE WORLD. Our idiotic government did not do their research well before passing this bill. Sex education and access to the contraceptives are definitely NOT the SOLUTION.
Edcel Lagman just made this bill because he will receive a lot of kickback and money from the pharmaceutical companies who manufacture contraceptives. Those companies are the ones backing this up, not the Filipino people.
killing the unborn child for health reason…. hmmmm…,,, i think most of the mom’s would choose to kill theirselves than to kill their kids….
butterfly19, have you known a mother who chose to die, and now dead, just to let her unborn child to live?
Does she have children before that child? if yes, where would these older children go for care? obviously, a care the mother can give can not be given by an infant.
Tell me proud mama, what values can the children get about sex education? And if the Mother’s life is at risk, then have faith in God. It is up to the mother if she choses to let her baby die or let the baby live and she die. FAITH IN GOD IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WHEN LIFE COMES IN A DILEMMA!
GOD is in your imagination, because you’ve distinguished this concept and chose to agree with it. I honestly can say that I’m totally happy with who I am, what I achieve, etc. And I have done many ‘sins’ that religious people invented. I hope you’ll understand that religion is the prevention of peace, along with nationalism. Fighting needlessly just because an imaginary character told you, pfffffff haha
In addition to distinguishing concepts, we distinguish ‘rules’ which are statements we make. There is no ‘truth’ out in the world, until we distinguish it and say it’s true. For example, jews arent inherently inferior, yet many people think they are, because they decided so. God was created this way. Someone decided that there is a god in the sky, and it seemed very ‘true’ to him/her. And then the belief got passed to tens of millions that have chosen to agree with it early in life
People create their reality by making distinctions. This might be tough to understand at first, but keep reading. For example, when you see a cat, you know it’s a cat because you’ve distinguished it from everything else. So if people don’t learn the concept of god, don’t talk about it and ultimately distinguish it from any other concept, god will be out of their reality, and they’d live their entire lives not knowing about god. God doesn’t come to our awareness, we create god
Premarital is not immoral. It is immoral because that is what the Church wants you to say.
Well probably beacause youre not a Catholic and thats your best answer.??
pre marital is immoral not because the church says it so, it is immoral because sex is for married couples only.
it is to be practice in the context of marriage .
Jose, sana pagnagkaanak ka maging babae man o lalaki mahuli mong nakikipagtalik sa murang edad. Ano kaya ang mararamdaman mo kung sa edad na 15 hindi na virgin ang anak mong babae or anank mong lalaki na 15 anyos nakabuntis na? Huwag nawa mangyari sa iyo yun.
si Jose kasi sarili lang ang pinrotektahan pano gawain nya yun. matakot ka naman sa Diyos, kung meron man. God Bless you.
May God forgive you.
Those who reproduce at an incredible rate are those who cannot afford proper contraception and do not have access to reliable information.
Oh MY GOD, how much is condom my dear, 25-30 pesos 3 pcs. kung ayaw gumamit ng BF mo nyan at nasasakripisyo ang kasarapan nya, wag mong gawing sagot ang pagsasaligal ng pills. Im just 24 and planning to have a family, with the way things go di ko muna itutuloy ang pagpapamilya, dahil natatakot ako sa mga pinaggagawa ng gobyernong to, Im not against this Gov’t, maganda nga ito at open sila for sentiments, sana lang ay mpakinggan.. d ako yung tipo ng lalaki na papayag masaligal yung pills at ipapainom ko sa girlfriend ko at pag di pa nakontento papatol ako sa mga babae na nagtatake din ng pills dahil di sila mabubuntis.. Bakit hindi nyo ibuhos yung pondo sa Bill na ito sa Edukasyon, na malinaw na kailangan ng mga iresponsableng magulanga na anak ng anak. anjan naman ang condoms, contraceptives pero di sila madisiplina gumamit, well d rin kasi makapagimpose ng mabigat na parusa sa mga iresponsableng magulang.
Im not a Law Maker pero surely we can think of laws that can make marriage, and parenting stronger. halimbawa magaasawa ka, bago kayo maaprubahan kailangan nyong pumunta sa City Hall for background check, counseling, at kung ilan ang PWEDE MONG MAGING ANAK depende sa income nyo AT hindi maaaprubahan ang kasal nyo kung wala ang pagpapatunay na dumaan kayo d2. Pano kung leave in lang, then mag set sila ng ultimatum na within 3 months (palagay natin) kailangan mong makasal (at upang makasal sasailalim din sila din sa BACKGROUND CHECK :D) na kapag di nila ginawa ay may karampatang parusa. ano ung parusa? yan ang dapat pagisipan ng mga Law Makers, pinaupo natin sila jan dahil yan ang trabaho nila.
Question : e pano kung hanggang 1 anak lang ang pwede sayo at nabuntis mo pa si misis, naging 2.
Answer : E di may parusa parin.:D . kung sumasahod ka ng maliit at bakit mo bibirahan ng maraming anak? gumawa ka lang ng sakit sa ulo tapos pag nagkakaprobelma ka tatakbo ka sa gobyerno.
Kung maging pagpapatali ang parusa sa mga lalampas ang anak, (palagay natin ganon, pero kung may mas magandang parusa na d sumasalungat sa turo ng simbahan mas ok) sana naman Hindi na pondohan ng gobyerno ang pagpapatali ng mga wlang kwentang lalaking ito na naging magulang. dahil kung 2 anak lng gusto nyan at isang anak lang ang sinabi ng gobyerno gawin, e pinaboran mo pa at ikaw ang gumastos sa pagpapaopera nya.
nakakatawa dahil parang may batas talgang ganito at dinedetalye ko pa kung ano ang mga parusa.. na hindi ba dapat ay talagang dapat pag daanan ng mga mambabatas para makalikha ng mga batas na makatao.
Di ba’t sabi sa “Preamble” that we are God fearing Citizens. Dapat siguro bauhin narin ung preamble, dahil nakakahiya naman sa mga gumawa ng Constitution.
bakit gago ka ba?
Your proposed method takes up more time and money.
Also, 30 pesos to a family that scrambles to put food on a table is incredibly precious.
Lastly, I’m a lesbian and this bill obviously shouldn’t affect me.
I determine my morality based on the following:
a. it doesn’t hurt other people
b. it is legal
Passing this bill satisfies both. If you want your morals intact, go ahead and use natural family planning. Don’t force me or anyone else to do the same. My choice is MY CHOICE.
“Lastly, I’m a lesbian and this bill obviously shouldn’t affect me.”
Not when rape becomes legalized; not when men – who has freedom to choose – choose to disrespect you as a result of the doctrines that this bill is attempting to brainwash everybody with; not when the State already adopted your basis of morality.
“I determine my morality based on the following:
a. it doesn’t hurt other people
b. it is legal”
a. Who will determine whether you are hurt or not? You? Why would everybody believe you? If you are hurt, how come they feel the opposite while they are doing to you the things they want?
b. Legality came after morality. Murder is immoral even if it became legal. You may say that it hurts others. Then again, who will determine who is hurt? Once more, consider the case of slaves.
“Passing this bill satisfies both.”
Wrong. It hurts many people and it is unconstitutional. Don’t you hear people saying, “Ouch” or you are deaf? Do you think there will be forums like this if nobody’s hurt?
NO!! who ever you are, what ever you are, as long as you are a Filipino you are affected by this bill whether you like it or not.
I do support your beliefs…You’re the man dude!!!
LOOK AROUND, do people have enough discipline? We cannot control people anymore. We need to be practical. If the church doesn’t want contraception, so let them explain harder to the church-goers. But technically, we all have the freedom of choice. RH BILL IS A BIG STEP TO DEVELOPMENT.
Define practicality.
We cannot control people anymore? So what do you suggest, that if we cannot beat them, we join them?
Why will the Church shut its Teacher-mouth regarding a proposal that violates its members’ conscience, then explain “harder” why it is opposed to it afterward? Is that the way you apply your idea of practicality?
Freedom of choice is not a technical thing, it is inherent and innate. We all have that, so everybody should use it. But to use OUR tax money against our will, that a grave violation of that freedom.
sorry,,for the comment.but without people you cannot developed a country ,it is more likely a cemetery…development of what???are you a immortal???
all your comment is all about the Contraceptives and the Abortion, you need to read all the sections of this bill so that you/we can understand better, there are Section talk about the Promotion of Health care, the mobile care service and Protection for women or a couple. this bill is formulated because of the rapid growth of our population and lastly to protect us in the widespread of STD’S..
Malthusian theory was already proven wrong a long time ago. It just happened that contraceptive propagandists relish the sound of their names. Condoms, pills, IUDs, cervical caps, and dead babies are their daily bread. What we must address before it go out of hand are the government’s Mafia and those individual robbers who snatch from us more than half of our wealth. The most valid question here that everybody should ask is, “I pay may taxes, why do I see people dying from hunger?”
More people means more mouths to feed, more food to produce, and MORE MANPOWER TO WORK — to produce food, to build, to sustain the land. Less new generations mean more old ones. Do you know what it implies? More senile, more unemployed, more mouths to feed, and MORE GOVERNMENT MONEY ALLOCATED FOR THE WELFARE OF THESE PEOPLE.
To those who say that RH bill is not anti-life, get medical dictionaries if you don’t understand some terms.
And this has always been my question: If you understand that human life begins at the moment of conception, and that conception is just a layman’s term of fertilization, and that some contraceptives prevents this zygote (human being) from implanting itself to the uterine wall to sustain his life and to grow, then why could you not understand that this bill is anti-life? Besides, contraception in practice obviously means “fighting against life”, although they say that it just prevents conception. This is for everybody: If you are aware that contraceptives actually kill human beings, and you think that it is time to curb our population growth, the extreme but sad question is, “Why not kill your parents and grandparents who are not more or less than human than an unborn child? And why not kill yourself too?” Does it not give you a VERY negative feeling to hear this? I actually feel nauseous about the idea. It gives me goosebumps every time I ask that question. Why, then, these people who clearly understand that some contraceptives are actually abortifacient, and those people who promotes abortion as alternative if contraception failed, do not get these negative feelings? Simple — because what’s important to them is that they are alive, and it does not really matter who will die.
Your arguments (including previous ones) assume that
a. only men enjoy sex
b. everyone agrees that human life begins at conception (and thus, a baby is human)
c. there is a standard for morality
d. the risks of having unprotected sex are less than the risks of using ‘risky’ contraceptives
I’m young, yes, but I understand the terms in this bill, I understand abortion procedures, and I understand the human condition. I certainly disagree with parts of this bill, but I believe that over-all, it’s probably one of the best things that could happen to this country.
Your views are certainly conservative and reflective of your religious upbringing, and you seem to prioritize relative morality over the needs of the state.
yung mga taong wlang moral values lang sasangayon d2,isipin nyo nalang maidudulot nyan. disiplina sa sarili,moralidad, d mo matututunan sa gobyerno yan, kahit ilang bill pa ipasa nyan. upos nga ng sigarilyo namumultahan pa. ano kaya itsura ng bansang walang moral values. maganda ung hangarin pero mali ung pamamaraan. maaabuso yan ng mga taong d karapatdapat.
I really agree with what this guy has just said. IT IS NOT MORAL. Imagine your daughter legally having sex with her boyfriend and she’s like really young. I could just see the country slowly becoming a very dirty and sinful.. this bill may have it’s pluses but there definitely is A LOT MORE NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS.. just think of morality.. think of little children and their young minds.. they aren’t ready for this kind of thing..
I agree that is not moral in some perspectives, though I also agree that there is no absolute moral guidelines in this case. I also would like to point out that anyone who has a daughter or son who is above eighteen years of age, consensually, is having legal sex when they do it. I haven’t read the law regarding minors having sex with other minors, but I guess if no one forced the other one, it is still legal.
Let me inform you that the rightness and the wrongness of an action is not being determined in terms of legality. Imagine a legalize murder — would it be good just because it is legal?
Then that ultimately violates the purpose of sex.. which is for married people. if we teach children to also have a choice then can’t you just imagine how much they would do it? it makes sex for pleasure and the person you’re doing it with an object for pleasure.. and think about it, if you’re married.. would you feel loved if your husband or wife decided you guys should use contraceptives like your some random person he’s doing it with? if you don’t want children then be careful when having sex.. it’s all about natural family planning.. that’s what we have to teach filipinos.. children on the other hand are too young to understand the consequences and by giving them a choice as well is only gonna fuel their urge in doing it.. if you think a lot of them do it now, think about when contraceptives would be freely given out and taught how to use.. would you want your young daughter doing that?
alam mo yung “kasal” what’s the used of it’s sacredness kung pwede pa lang mag-sex lang nang mag-sex bsta above 18 at prho nyong gs2, tgnan q lang kung ano mrmdman mo kung mangyri un sa mgiging anak mo. sana naman hindi. God Bless you.
Those who disagree to this bill base their reasons to religious upbringing. People, try to be a realist sometimes please? People can become delusional when religious-driven.
What is real then?
fail
its just not about the religous it is about our country who live
correct! remember that sins are invented religious people.
Ang totoo, hindi maganda ang hangarin kaya mali ang pamamaraan. $$$
pera pera lang yan, Edzel Lagman and company, hindi q alam kung tama spelling, mukha kayong pera, nawa’y maawa ang Diyos sa inyo at tanggapin pa rin kayo sa langit pagpanaw niyo. ayokong magbitiw ng gnitong mga salita kaso napipiliyan ako, may God forgive me. God Bless you all.
Moral values are relative, something I keep saying.
Oh, and obviously our country’s ‘moral values’ are seriously whacked, our population increases exponentially every year.
If you cannot control yourself, the government’s gotta give you options.
exactly.
the church has been preaching abstinence and self-disciple and whatever for decades now.
still, the statistics of premarital pregnancies and induced abortions are rising each year.
it clearly implies that the church’s methods are not working.
“If you cannot control yourself, the government’s gotta give you options.”
couldn’t have said it better myself
It clearly shows that only few heed the Church’s teachings, and thus the consequences. Are Americans sexually responsible? Is it not a fact that despite the general acceptance of contraception in that country, abortion is just an everyday thing? It even legalized abortion after legalizing contraception.
If you cannot control your kids from fighting, will you give them the option to use boxing gloves and fight each other to death? Will you also suggest that prostitution be legalized if rapists cannot control themselves like what they propose in South Africa? So, self-control is just an option now?
Haven’t you heard yet the saying, “Your freedom ends where my nose begins”?
it clearly shows that however you listen to what the church says, you cannot control basic human impulses.
eating, drinking, sleeping are all examples of natural impulses (instincts, if you will). even sex.
ever wonder why some priests become biological fathers?
i also think you’re not getting the point of the bill. it is about responsible parenthood and reproductive health education. it is NOT about legalizing abortion at all. i think you said it yourself, this bill does not have the power to legalize abortion.
rh bill leads to abortion? how? that’s like saying that same sex marriage leads to bestiality. it does not connect at all.
south africa legalizing prostitution to avoid rape… wow, i read about it and it’s crazy stupid. i’m glad they didn’t pass it at all.
“your freedom ends when my nose begins”
love that, it’s just that some people stick their noses too much into other people’s business, there’s no room left for other people to exercise their freedom, know what i’m saying?
“If you cannot control your kids from fighting, will you give them the option to use boxing gloves and fight each other to death?”
i find this, quite frankly, stupid and hilarious. do you always intend to kill when you have a fight with a sibling? you are one scary person.
that statement only shows that you are thinking in black and white…which is quite a disadvantage when engaging in debates, especially one like this. 🙂
If you cannot control your kids from fighting you teach them how to argue with sense till them come to a conclusion or a compromise or “fight with sense”. Not boxing gloves. Theres nothing wrong with his/her statement.
And its not stupid, try looking at it from a different view.
Just as true with self control. If one cannot control his impulses, it is not because of the impossibility of controlling it but because of lack of training. One should teach his senses. We cannot just eat anyone’s food when we’re hungry or just sleep literally anywhere when we’re too sleepy.
You obviously missed the point. This is about control. The statement in question was, “you cannot control basic human impulses,” so the solution offered was to avoid not the act but the consequence. You have focused on the “killing” instead of on the gloves. It shows that you are not used to analogies which are very important in debates like this.
“Just as true with self control. If one cannot control his impulses, it is not because of the impossibility of controlling it but because of lack of training. One should teach his senses. We cannot just eat anyone’s food when we’re hungry or just sleep literally anywhere when we’re too sleepy.”
true true.
” You have focused on the “killing” instead of on the gloves. It shows that you are not used to analogies which are very important in debates like this.”
Who are you talking to? If me, i was merely defending “reading is fun’s” answer, stating that his answer is not stupid. I am not joining their argument.
“Moral values are relative” — Uhm… morality is universal, dear. What is good will always remain good. What is bad can never ever be good.
Excuse me, Bituin. But if you don’t want to be called narrow-minded, you should at least consider that MORALITY IS NOT UNIVERSAL. Every nations, every peoples, have different cultures and different values. How can you IMPOSE on others what is right when they have their own stands on what they know is right? You must think that morality is not the same across different cultures. Alam mo ba kung bakit may mga taong PRO-RH bill at ANTI-RH bill?? Kasi for them, morality is RELATIVE. Think again.
I disagree about moral values being relative. Even when you say that it’s relative you’re declaring an absolute.
If it’s okay to eat people in this country, and it’s not okay in China, then Houston we have a problem. A line should be drawn somewhere.
WALANG DISIPLINA TAYONG MGA PILIPINO. KAHIT ANO PA ANG SABIHIN NINYO ANG DAPAT SISIHIN AY ANG SARILI NATIN.
The two simplest questions that I want you to think about.
When can you say, and who will say, that an action is right or wrong?
When is wrong right, and when is right wrong?
If you are able to answer that with sound argument, I will reconsider my position.
God knows what’s right or wrong. What seems to be right to a person may seem to be a sin to God in his infinite goodness. That’s why we need to listen to our conscience and we need to pray always for divine wisdom and discernment of knowing good and evil especially of these days. There is really an increase in Godlessness these days and will continue at its worst in the upcoming years unless people changes for better.
Prayer, prayer, prayer! this is what we need to do always in which many people of this world had forgotten.
If we are not certain about an answer to a problem, we are not doing it right. Confusion is from the enemy. He tends to mixed good and bad things. We need to spend silence in our prayers.
I believe the Church prays because it is from God. She (Church which is bride of Christ) knows the good and bad.
hi nice speech 🙂 i have a question about the prayer part.
how exactly will prayer solve the problem of overpopulation?
You can ask God about it through prayer? Have you prayed about it sincerely and wholeheartedly? Prayer can solve problems right? 1 John 5:14-15 says, “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us – whatever we ask – we know that we have what we asked of Him.”
Be attentive, God may not give you answer directly. He may use other people. And you must be very attentive also, as His enemy Satan will intervene for distortion and confusion. Like in this case, overpopulation. What is God’s answer: abstain and self discipline. What is Satan’s answer: use contraceptives, throw away that self discipline and abstinence as you can do sex anytime.
how do you even know that god’s plan is to abstain and not have sex?
sex is the way to procreation, as i understand it.
how do you know that the devil’s plan is contraception?
how do you even claim to know what god’s plan is? or the devil’s for that matter?
also, next time you ask god for something, can you ask him to heal amputees or end world hunger? let’s see if that works 🙂
If you ask God you will know. Did you ask Him??? Does who seek will find.
Truly, there are eyes that can’t see and have ears but can’t hear.
2 Tim 3:1-4
“But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God”
2 Tim 3:12-13
In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
“also, next time you ask god for something, can you ask him to heal amputees or end world hunger? let’s see if that works”
It is written, Luke 4:12: Jesus answered the devil, “Do not put the Lord your God to the test.”
thanks, i always love people quoting stuff from books.
i have a quote too:
deuteronomy 14:8-9
“And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch.”
so i guess everyone who has eaten pork is definitely going to hell yeah? i guess we’re all doomed unless we’re muslims (because they don’t eat pork) or we’re vegetarians.
anyway… let’s ignore books for now because it isn’t really relevant to my question.
“If you ask God you will know. Did you ask Him??? Does who seek will find. ”
now there’s something close to an answer.
let’s say that this is somehow proven to be true,
how do we even come to recognize the ‘answers’ that god gives us?
God is the answer to every problem isn’t it? Or you don’t believe in that statement? If you do not believe, then there’s a big problem. If you do believe, then you can say that prayer is the answer because prayer is a communication with God.
Please ask the Holy Spirit for the gift of wisdom and discernment so that you will discover the snares and temptation of Satan in everything. The Spirit will speak to you in your heart. It is only then that you will know what is from God and what is from evil. You can also speak with your guardian angel; He would be glad to help you because he only wants your salvation.
The evilness of this bill was well presented here by so the many that are against on it and yet you still didn’t open your eyes and ears. I repeat prayer is important, and I’ll ask this of you again: Did you pray to God for enlightenment of this issue?? Please answer and don’t deceive yourself. Did you pray to God for enlightenment of this issue?? Don’t rely on ourselves on every action. Use heaven for assistance; like am I doing this right or am I doing this wrong.
I already said that we are in the end times, in the Dark Age; and almost everything that are presented in this world are from Satan. (Please read my comment here on 666 mark)
Despite of all this you can still continue with what you believe that, “Contraceptive is not a sin”. You can argue with many and even convinced them. But I tell you when you die; you will know all the truth. You will not have an excuse that nobody tells you that it is not a sin. We have done our part of giving illumination of this issue.
I tell you again, “Contraception is a sin”, and is consider mortal sin if done with “full knowledge and deliberate consent”. Mortal sin is the sin that condemns people to hell. It is also mentioned by the Blessed Mother Mary that, “Too Many Souls Are Going To Hell”. And she also mentioned that, “Sin of the Flesh is the Very Reason Why Many Souls Go To Hell”.
The graces are around us. It is a gift of friendship and unity to God. You can ask more if you wish and God will truly give it to you especially if you really seek goodness in everything. In the end we will be judged according to acceptance of refusal of this grace through the Holy Spirit.
My friend, we are part of Heavenly Family. I tell this to you with compassion, humility and gentleness. God bless!
I find most arguments that jlocute is engaged to far from the bill hahaha but it is interesting nonetheless, maybe thats why. 😛
Tell me what you think of this situation jlocute. There was a man who decided to do an experiment. He raised his children telling them that the stars in heaven were divine beings watching over us and this dictated the actions of his children. Because of this the children grew “fit” and “good” in the society. Now the children believed such things so great that they influenced others to believe in the same thing. Now many people are trying to do good and everything is getting better. Seeing as how this changed everything for the best the father decided to keep this a secret and to his grave, he brought the secret with him. Now that the belief of that stars were widespread. And what was once told was now the truth and what was once known is not.
One thing is for sure to happen with your statement: that man who made those things to happen will be held accountable to GOD because he didn’t tell of what the truth is…
Ah but the thing is. The people described in that statement would be insulted by you and say that your straying away from the path of truth because you say that there is a God when to them only the divine things are stars.
Do you see where I am going?
we are not over populated!!!!!!!!
as it is…
search or look outside your house is it overpopulated??
ill give you the basis look what happened to our population (Philippines)from 1950 up to now it is decreasing……
ur so very good po… REJECT RH BILL!!! 🙂
i dont think that over population is the root problem. I dont agree with it. It’s the corruption, its more about money, that’s the thing most politicians really want. The real thing about hunger is that no ones gonna work for food. Development does not always mean a good advantage. More money not allocated for the welfare of the people, its for the building of mansions. How come it is a responsible parenthood if you as a parent killing an unborn, an underdeveloped being, does the thing you do is making a life? or just making a fun?
the problem lies on your stance that it is the duty of the government to take care each of us. go back to your senses and pull back self worth and self respect because you must work to feed your ownself and family, not the government feeding all of us.
population explosion? like c4 bombs? Urban population density is high as opposed to entire country population density. so dont be so scared. it is just too many people are moving into the city. provinces have lesser count of people in them.
the bill still says that abortion is illegal and punishable. And furthermore it is more on the empowerment of women. The bill is reasonable.
This bill poisons the women to many side effects of the pills in many aspects but more importantly, morally (degrading them by letting them sacrifice their health by taking that drug knowing the risk it myt cause just because their male partner doesnt want to use a condom because you know, its thick, it doesnt feel natural, cant feel that pleasure…for that shallow reason, so what are you now, a self empowered woman?? haha right :)). We already have access to many contraceptives without the need of this bill. We dont have to give access to everyone coz it myt b abused. We can just pin point those irresponsible parents who really need it,like parents that has many kids in some rural areas , squat areas, and of course with guidance, counseling and stronger punishment from our Gov’t. Being a parent is not like when you play PlayStation “ooopps I failed, push reset button, let’s play it again” thats why it needs a lot of your time, check the girlfriend/boyfriend’s family background, then a lot of counseling before you go to marriage and honeymoon.INUUNA NYO KASI HONEYMOON, and guys isnt it FAMILY PLANNING should be like COUNSELING THING not taking drugs.
one of the reason of Overgrowing Population is in TEEN PREGNANCY, so does that mean that they will allow teens to take pills and to go PRO PREMARITAL SEX??? Condoms are already there, I mean teen boys can buy it from convenient stores, its just that its still a taboo, were still guided by our conscience. but still theres a lot of teens getting pregnant, meaning boys dont want to use it. So its fine to take away morality by letting your child go liberated and let her/him have sex to whoever she/he likes as long as they use “Family Planning Pills” (haha ryt) Are there any parents here???
so is this really their answer to the overgrowing population problem???
Why do you all think that this bill is mere CONTRACEPTION? It educates people too, guys.
Educates about?
wew.. nothing ,… just posting for the sake of posting ..^^
i think this will not help the problems of the country especially those spreading premarital sex resulting to single parenthood…i have not at present two friends(girl)who is a single mom…..Who do not know how to resolve their problem…w8 4 my next comment on this…
Bah! Its old people, invalids and gays that are causing this population problem, not the unborn. Just legalize slave labor and work the old buggers and homos to death, that should solve it, we spend so much just keeping them alive.
As far as I’m aware, two women or two men are unable to have children of their own. Most old people when of a certain age are unable to as well. How can they be causing this population problem? Clearly, it is ignorant people, such as yourself, who are laying waste to this country.
i thin kthe guy’s being sarcastic… i think… 😛
An inspiring vision of human life, the beauty of marriage and the joy of parenthood are what are positively offered by the Church, although the Church’s doctrine is too often perceived as a series of prohibitions and retrograde positions. The marriage act, likewise, by which husband and wife are united in chaste intimacy, and by means of which human life is transmitted, is noble and worthy. Ergo, the Church, by all means, defends the dignity of human life.
On the other hand, the government, by virtue of the RH Bill 5043, objectifies an end directing to uphold and promote respect for human life. The end of this bill is undoubtedly for the common good of the suffering Filipinos. It deliberately aims to lessen if not totally erase the reigning rage of poverty throughout the Philippine territory. By this, it follows that the bill, in itself, is intrinsically good for it directs to good. However, digging deeper to every single act of this bill, there are unfortunately erroneous means of foregoing as such that might strongly defy the human nature in its entirety and thus cause an ambiguous reasoning. The end of the bill is generally to uphold and promote human life, but what lie in its means are numbers of irrational reasoning such that the dictate of reason doesn’t conform to the dictate of practical reason. The bill for instance, aims to safeguard human life, whereas in section nine and 10 is willfully and knowingly stated that family planning methods requiring hospital services, like tubal ligation, vasectomy and intra-uterine device insertion, among others, shall be available in all national and local government hospitals, and that hormonal contraceptives, injectables and other allied ‘reproductive health products’ if they may refer to it that way, shall be considered under the category of essential medicines. As a matter of fact, almost present in every section of the bill, is the blatant emphasis of widening and spreading, in a full range, the promotion of reproductive health services and supplies (e.g.;tubal ligation, vasectomy, IUD, contraceptives), which in one way or another, summarizes the purpose of this bill.
By this point comes the opposition of the Church. First is the concept of the beginning of human life, which has been, for so long, contradictory between the Church and science. Then, it (bill) is morally wrong for it violates right reasoning which is to take the human nature completely. It is a form of a mutilation of the body, hence, destroying human nature integrally. It is also to be feared that the man, growing used to the employment of anti-conceptive practices, may finally engage to conjugal infidelity or may lose respect for the woman and, no longer caring for her physical equilibrium, may come to the point of considering her as a mere instrumental good of selfish achievement of pleasure, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion. These are just but few unseen if not apparent morally wrong consequences – if it’s the consequences that they are after to in enforcing the bill- of the means of this so-called reproductive health bill.
The Church, or that morality doesn’t agree to the proposition of the bill that demands to give a free choice to the couple whether to engage or not to either of the different forms of family-planning, for it would mean deliberately allowing them to have a choice to morally evil decisions. Why not abstain, says the Church. Why not? In fact, people in married life are supposed to be matured enough with their will and knowledge. Provided that maturity has been garnered by them, abstinence then is not a question. Besides, there vow of conjugal love is revealed at this kind of matters.
Nevertheless, there may be differences of beliefs or concepts between these two social institutions, but it shouldn’t be denied and disregarded that they indeed also share things in common. Furthermore, the common end present amongst both is the promotion and respect for human life. It is a moral good. It certainly upholds right reasoning. What differs is simply the means of pursuing this end, which should both conform to one another – towards the common good, that is. Apparently, the mentioned reproductive health services and supplies cannot be allowed, not only by the church but by morality itself. There are, however, still other matters or means stated in the RH Bill, namely; abstinence before marriage (Sec. 12), Section 3b and many others. These are already bound for admission both to promoting human life, and much more, a moral life. Finally, at this kind of matters, the means conforms to the end. There are no longer contradictions between the morality and this bill.
In short, the bill is a result of hypocrisy. They claim to believe certain concepts just to make others think that they are “with them”, but they cannot hide in this disguise or else, they could not say what they really want.
There is no real contradiction between science and the Catholic Faith simply because science is knowledge, and all true knowledge comes from God, while the Faith is a revelation from God. The conflict is just between ignorant scientists like Darwin, and the knowledge of God.
There would be no middle ground for the bill and the Church for if the bill conforms with the Church, it would instantly stop to exist.
If you think that this bill will lead to irresponsible parenthood, then you didn’t teach your children well enough to make the responsible teenagers.
Your comment will be more noticed and replied to if you will not leave it vague.
Could you please explain “true knowledge”, and how it came from God? Is it because Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, and God punished them because he wants them to disregard that symbolic knowledge for them to know a certain type of “true knowledge?”
I know I’m being off-topic here but I’m hoping that you could answer my question.
Thanks and have a good day.
this bill does not promote responsible parenthood. it will just add to irresponsible parenthood because by allowing the use of contraceptives, sons and daughters, especially the adolescents are free to engage in sexual relationships. Parents will never worry if their children are engaged in pre-marital sex because they think that with the use of contraceptives it guarantees their children will not end with early parenthood. This bill makes sex as a normal activity taken without any sanctity. Is it good that man and woman today will do sex always, with different partners? Sex can only be done in the context of marriage, if and only if the state supports this idea, then there will be no problem at all. In the context of marriage, there is no unwanted pregnancy which is one of the bill’s goal to solve. Why the promotion of contraceptives?
“In the context of marriage, there is no unwanted pregnancy which is one of the bill’s goal to solve.”
I completely agree.
eh pano naman po kung madami ng anak ung mag asawa? tpos nag sex sila, edi shempre may possibility na mabuntis ung babae.. pano kung hindi na nila ma afford na magkaroon pa ng anak, ndi ba sila pwedeng gumamit ng condom? kasi ang condom daw ay for abortion… ganun po ba?
sa tingin ko naman po, gustong gawin ng bill na ito ay ma educate ung mga tao para maging responsableng mga tao, mga mag asawa, mga responsableng magulang..
pasensha na po, ako’y isang estudyante lamang. 🙂
I strongly agree. I hope vanillae could see the point you’re trying to say.
This sounds like you want to make unwanted pregnancies to be as punishment to those who have sex without having intention of having a baby? You want the unwanted pregnancy to be the punishment for those who have sex and not prepared financially?
Do you know that in that case you’re not only punishing those who will have sex but also the children they are going have? How naive. I wish you were born by irresponsible parents so you know how it feels to be an “unwanted child”. Grow up and wake up.
So, by saying that, ok lang sa inyo na konsintihin yung mga kabataan na maengage sa pre-marital sex dahil safe na sila sa consequence of having a baby. kaya nga para lang sa mag-asawa ang sex eh, para mabuo man ang baby, walang problema dahil kasal naman sila at part ng buhay mag-asawa ang magka-anak. you guys should wake-up hindi kami. God Bless you all.
There are good things about this bill. But, there are also bad things in it. However, the bad things prevails–that is the reason why I will present the bad things. You need to have a copy of the RH Bill on sight for you to be guided accordingly.
Here are the irregularities of the RH Bill. Please read this carefully so that you may be aware of this:
Section 2. First paragraph: “…respect for life in conformity with internationally recognized human rights standards.”
–> Why not in conformity with the Philippine standards? Why international? Do we need to follow other countries way of population control and reproductive health? Or are we undermined or enslaved by the first world countries? Philippines is known for its good and kind people like being hospitable, which other countries are seeking to learn. We have our own standards.
Section 2. Third paragraph: “…sustainable human development is better assured with a manageable population of healthy, educated and productive citizens.”
–> If you love our country, or if you love other people, you will see that this statement may promote euthanasia, divorce, etc. If you don’t see it, seek more of its meaning. It lies beneath the underneath. There will be an unequal distribution of wealth. Don’t you see it?
Section 3. (a): “In the promotion of reproductive health, there should be no bias for either modern of natural methods of family planning;”
–> Nothing in this bill that promotes the natural family planning.
Section 3. (e): “The limited resources of the country cannot be suffered to be spread so thinly to service a burgeoning multitude that makes the allocations grossly inadequate and effectively meaningless.”
–> Whoa, more money for the rich! If you look at this bill only on its presented purpose and overlooking its effects, then we have a problem. You see? This promotes more wealth for the rich.
Section 3. (f): “Freedom of informed choice, which is…”
–> What is meant by informed choice? Does it mean everyone is free to watch x-rated films? How about the kids? How about a demonstration in class? Oh, it’s our choice! We are free to be informed of it. Really?
Section 3. (g): “While the number and spacing of children are left to the sound judgement of parents and couples based on their personal conviction and religious beliefs…”
–> This statement is contradicted by Section 10.
Continued: “…such concerned parents and couples, INCLUDING UNMARRIED INDIVIDUALS, should be granted…”
–> This includes minors, and lovers not capable of being a parent. This promotes pre-marital sex, non-marital sex, abortion, promiscuity, fornication, incest, etc. Anyway, we are free to do it!
Continued: “…and should be guided by qualified State workers and professional private practitioners;”
–> Why are church leaders not included? Why do priests, bishops, nuns, etc not involves?
Section 3. (j): “Development…that seek to uplift the quality of life of the people, more particularly the poor, the needy and the marginalized;”
–> What assurance will the poor benefits? Please reflect on this. Is it really for the quality of life?
Section 3. (l): “Respect for, PROTECTION and FULFILLMENT of REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH RIGHTS…not only the rights and welfare of adult individuals and couples BUT THOSE OF ADOLESCENTS’ AND CHILDREN’S AS WELL;…”
–> What reproductive health rights for the adolescents and children? Children are included, whose mind are not yet mature enough! This may promote a dirty knowledge about this to the children. Parents will be responsible for this.
Section 3. (m): “…as abortion remains a crime and is punishable, the government shall ensure the women seeking care for POST-ABORTION COMPLICATIONS shall be treated…and compassionate manner.”
–> This is again contradicted in Section 10. The bill doesn’t only contradicts the Law of Nature but violates the bill itself as well. Post-abortion complications in this statement is only an admission that abortion really has complications.
Section 4. “Definition of Terms”
–> This may not be that heavy but redefining the common understanding of everyone does not need to be defined.
Section 4. (b): “…which enables couples and INDIVIDUALS to decide freely and responsibly the NUMBER and SPACING OF THEIR CHILDREN…”
–> “Individuals.” Does this mean that unmarried couples have the right to have children? I’m using my common sense here. You should use yours also.
Section 4. (c): “Reproductive Health – refers to the state of physical, mental and social well-being…”
–> Why spiritual and moral well-being not included here?
Continued: “This implies that PEOPLE are able to have a SATISFYING and SAFE SEX LIFE, that they have the CAPABILITY TO REPRODUCE and the freedom to DECIDE if, WHEN AND HOW OFTEN TO DO SO, provided that these are not against the law.”
–> Take note of the phrases that are in UPPERCASE. People to have satisfaction includes the youth, unmarried, homosexual, etc. And, they may decide when and how often to do so? How about teenagers doing it every minute on the grassland? It is not against the law as long as no one saw them.
Section 4. (d): “Reproductive Health Rights – refers to the rights of INDIVIDUALS and couples to DECIDE FREELY AND RESPONSIBLY the number, spacing and timing of their children.”
–> Again, the ‘individual’ word. Does this bill really promotes population control in which I can decide freely and responsibly the number of children? Suppose I receive great pay, I can raise about 15 children. What a population control. This bill is too vague.
Section 4. (g): “10. Male involvement and participation in reproductive health.”
–> Number 1 to 8 of this section may be considered okay. But on 10, how will I be involved and participate with reproductive health? Isn’t it obvious that this refers to sex? Take note that on Section 4 (c) doesn’t include the spiritual well-being.
Section 4. (h): “…relevant information on all matters relating to the reproductive system its functions and processes and human sexuality…”
–> This may promote promiscuity in education.
Continued: “…developing NECESSARY SKILLS to be able to distinguish between facts and myths on sex and sexuality…”
–> How? Doing actual sexual intercourse in class? What necessary skills? Does it mean the techniques, the positions and the likes? Does it mean the class will have a film showing on pornographic films?
Section 10: “Contraceptives as ESSENTIAL MEDICINES – hormonal contraceptives, intrauterine devices, injectables and other allied reproductive health products…shall be considered under the category of ESSENTIAL MEDICINES…”
–> This is the most interesting part. Contraceptives are now considered as ESSENTIAL MEDICINES–not only an ordinary medicine but an ESSENTIAL medicine. We can buy condoms the same way we buy Biogesic. Teenagers can buy those too at an affordable price. Better advertise it so that small children will learn too and if possible imitate it through experiments and practice for better reproductive health learning and to master the NECESSARY SKILLS as depicted in Section 4, h.
Section 12. (g): “Abstinence before marriage”
–> How can this be promoted when the unmarried are allowed to have sex and reproduction (See Section 4)?
Sections 22 – 27:
–> If this become a law, people like me who loves humanity will have no choice to obey it. One reason for peoples immorality may be from this law.
I know you are tired of reading my sharing. That only proves that this Bill has many irregularities. Erase all those above mentioned parts on the Bill, and the Bill may become better for the people and logical.
I like your comments Neigyl. The details are great. I think the reason behid the vagueness and irregularities of this bill is that provisions like natural birth control, anti-abortion, abstinence before marrairage, and other moral provisions were just ADDED to the previous versions of this bill coming from UN and US just so to make it appealing to the Filipino people. The congressmen did this too hurriendly to be deliberated quickly. Apparently there are international pressures at work here.
Another thing I could say about the RH bill is that this law is not needed for our country Why?
– We already have laws against abortion, against pre-marital sex, against pronography.
– The church has been teaching natural family planning for decades.
– Other methods of family planning are available in the net.
– Family planning is mandatory to acauiring a marriage license.
– Sex education is already taught in high schools, although, not as a separate subject.
– Condoms are cheap (although I do not prefer using it)
– Contraceptives are available in many pharmacies but I do not recommend using them. Its bad for the health that they can kill you (especially women) quickly; aside for the moral aspects:)
– Our public hospitals already offer reproductive health care.
– Philhealth already covers health care although it is not enough, just like all government insurance terms are.
Moreover, if this RH bill passes into a law, out taxes may have to be raised to address the cost of implementing the bill. Imagine giving out free (or ubsidized) condoms and contraceptives to indigent individuals or couples. Our popuplation is 80% indigent that its just damn to expensive. Talking about thinning resources, the RH bill is just another way to make our country poorer.
Sex is an instinct. People did it even before civilization was born. Our children will know it even if we do not teach it.
Responsible sex happens only after marriage. Anything outside of marriage (including before) is already immoral and irresponsible.
Most of all, there is no way for the RH bill to solve poverty in our country. Our problem is poverty and not poor reproductive health. Overpopulation is not the cause of poverty. We are poor because our wages are low (hello?). Increasing our wages to first-world country levels is the only practical way of solvins the poverty problem in our country. Go HYPERWAGE THEORY!
But please do not attempt to forcibly control the population. Leave it to the parents. Overpopulation is not the problem. In fact, it is the labor force! We do not want be be another Germany, Sweden, Swtzerland, and Japan. These country propoulation growth has become too low or even reversed. They are adopting children for thirld world countries, like ours, just to sustain their population. Soon enough China will have problems of sustaining a strong labor force becuase there are not many children born nowadays.
And lo! Singapore is overpopulated… Hongkong is overpopulated… Japan is also. But they are rich! Why? Becuase their workers are paid well.
OK. I am already speaking my mind. So enough of it. Junk the RH Bill (again). Increase the wages (several times) of our workers and everything will just work out fine.
-Stan da man….
JAPAN OVERPOPULATED? think again you fool. their population is already considered old and their government even wants the Japanese couples to give birth to more children…. before you comment such stupid remarks, google it first to confirm the validity of your statement…
Hongkong and Singapore are facing a population boom. their governments are realizing this. do you think the government will be able to employ all of the workers in the next generation? they won’t even be able to increase their wages…
Stan da man think again
KAIZER:
“Hongkong and Singapore are facing a population boom” — WRONG.
Singapore is suffering from a lack in manpower ergo they opened employment opportunities to neighboring Asian countries. Kulang na sila sa tao who are of the right age to sustain their progress.
your comments are pretty stupid
Kaizer, do you have any proofs and references that would contradict our stupid comments?
I have given all erroneous statements in the Bill. ‘Stan da man’ has valid reasons. Do you have references that would validate your reasoning such that your reasoning may contradict our stupid comments?
Ok, now to your point:
Japan is overpopulated. Here are my valid references:
http://www.pregnantpause.org/overpop/gnp.htm
“The population of 51 countries or areas, including Germany, Italy, Japan and most of the successor States of the former Soviet Union, is expected to be lower in 2050 than in 2005.” –> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation
“Nations that do get a handle on their overpopulation are likely to receive a scolding from globalists. Consider Japan, where 126 million people are crowded into a land area the size of California. Annual population growth has dropped to two-tenths of 1 percent. Rather than getting credit for halting unsustainable population growth, Western economists and politicians chastise Japan’s leaders for lack of economic performance. Japan is advised to grow itself out of recession so that other Asian nations with less discipline can resume their growth. Some even urge the Japanese to admit larger numbers of immigrants to pump up demand for goods and services. Whatever became of the age of limits?” –> http://www.nearsightedness.org/doctors/doctors8.htm
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2750087
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_japan_overpopulated
Hongkong and Singapore can increase their wages and that is very possible but may be very difficult and would take time. However, A law (or a bill) such as this RH Bill will obviously not solve overpopulation as I have explained in detail on my last comment…
Please have a nice tone when replying to comments here.
Thank you for the time reading this.
Then give your wise comment so that we may learn from your words of wisdom.
ano ka ngayon kaizer? tsk3x… let’s be nice guys, debate lang ‘to hindi away.
The only thing that I do not agree with is the first sentence. This bill is ill-intended. Even Satan will profess that Jesus is Lord but it does not make him any good. Those points in the RH bill that sound good may really be good but unnecessary. One of the most obvious examples is the promotion of breastfeeding, which does not need a bill to realize. Did it need an RH bill for us to hear the government’s message on television that says, “Hindi hayop ang anak mo,” promoting human breastfeeding? These elements of the bill is for deception’s purpose. It applies a sandwich approach (or maybe a halo-halo approach), mixing good concepts with evil ones, not to produce real good results but to hide the bad ingredients.
Philippine standards – maybe because those standards have proven to be effective? I have no idea what these standards are though, but I guess the same goes for you. If that is the case, then both of us are not qualified to make a logical argument about these standards, so it should be disregarded. On the other hand, if the standards were not effective, then maybe we need to adopt our own.
Manageable population – I agree, that is a possibility, though I think a distant one, since that would require some large changes in the demographics. Perhaps after more generations have passed.
Either modern or natural – It is possible that natural family planning will garner less attention, but that does not mean it won’t be promoted. I guess it will still be an option for those who have regular periods, where this sort of family planning has proven to be effective.
More wealth for the rich – In any region of the world, at any point in human history since money was invented, there has always been and always will be more money for the rich. Sad, but true. Whether this bill is implemented or not will not affect that truth.
Freedom of informed choice – I guess some sex education videos will be used, which might not sit very well with a primarily Catholic country. On the other hand, I think they won’t be on the vein of the x-rated videos that I assume you are referring to, since those things are just two (or three or four plus) people having sex.
Freedom of informed choice is just that, freedom to decide with the correct information at hand.
Unmarried Individuals – I also think that it is possible that such an information would be used by the youth to take risks they would otherwise not take, though it might be also true that the consequences will be mitigated through proper education (i.e. if you know how to use a condom, then it would work most of the time). Condoms still fail sometimes.
Making the jump to incest is too much though.
State workers and professional private practitioners and not church leaders- Because of the separation of Church and State. People are still free to go to religious leaders for sex guidance though, the bill does not prevent that.
Development of the people – As you said, there is no assurance, just like any other social policy.
Reproductive health rights for children – Reproductive Health Rights, as defined here, is for overall health – including those that may be affected by such actions (including children). I guess the law is being broad here to accommodate different scenarios, such as adolescents getting pregnant, whether through consensual sex or other scenarios.
Individuals having the right to have children – By law, yes, they are allowed to have children. Why? Because one, they might not have had the chance to get married for financial reasons (like a number of poor people). It’s not that they don’t have the money, it is most likely that they didn’t have the time to officially register and get married in front of a judge and/or priest. Processing papers like that takes time, time that can be spent on finding money for food. Two, they may hold beliefs that are not the same as ours, so having children does not necessitate marriage.
Spiritual and Moral well being – they are not included in the definition probably because they are too subjective and have no numerical measure.
Satisfying Sex Life, Capability to Reproduce and the Freedom to Decide IF, WHEN and HOW OFTEN TO DO SO, provided that these are not against the law:
Yes, people have that freedom. Again, respect for their choices. There is nothing illegal in it. Morally questionable, but nothing illegal. Though they definitely can’t do it on the grasslands. That’s public indecency, and punishable by law.
Individuals deciding the number and spacing – Yes, it promotes population control, though not through strict measures. It prescribes, but does not force you to follow.
Male involvement and participation in reproductive health – means that they should also know about the contraceptives and its effects, and other necessary information about reproductive healthcare.
On Schools – RH Bill and sexual education may promote promiscuity, since it can possibly eliminate, within a generation or so, the taboo on early/pre-marital sex. About the necessary skills, I think it refers to decision making skills, though then again, that can be expanded to include pleasure positions and the like.
Essential Medicines – Yes, that might be the case. Though, truth be told, teenagers are already buying them.
Abstinence before Marriage – is not imposed, but is a subject that will be covered. I guess it would be mentioned as an option to family planning. It is, after all, the most effective way to do it (100% effectiveness! Can’t be beaten by any drug out there. The only side effect might be an increased hunger for sex.)
I do see some irregularities thank you but just trying to point out, you seem to make it a point that everyone shares the same belief of “spirituality” and “morality” as you haha
Let me answer bluntly to every section you point out.
Section 2 first paragraph: It’s followed on an international level to make sure standards are followed. We need standards ex. safety standards (remember the hopeful nurses that burned in that hotel because it did not follow safety standards?) Mas mataas pa nga standards sa labas. Mas masarap pa nga buhay ng kriminal sa kulungan sa US kung ikukumpara sa mahihirap sa Pilipinas.
Section 2 third paragraph: The paragraph refers to the government not worrying about the future of kids because they will grow up the way they should: with every support from the parents because they can afford to feed them, clothe them, send them to good schools because they will be able to manage their finances better. Not euthanasia because that would be mercy killing and does not even cover this bill. Nor does it cover divorce unless divorce means “responsible parenting”.
Section 3a: It does not seek to mention natural family planning since the church already advocates that on a daily basis. But for the sake of argument, the government will require those authorized to educate others about natural family planning which are to abstain or the “cycle” method.
Section 3e: “spread so thinly” you incite the rich get richer. Read first then understand. The government already knows the poor get poorer everyday. They know the financial stress these families suffer. Think about it, which is better? A family of minimum wage earners feeding, clothing, providing proper education, health care, and mentoring 2 kids or 12 kids?
Section 3f: “Freedom of informed choice, which is central to the exercise of any right, must be fully guaranteed by the State like the right itself;” again please read. An informed CHOICE. Does that even translate to pornography? This paragraph explains that every person should have the right to know all the facts before making a decision.
Section 3g: It speaks that couples can DECIDE to have kids whenever they want. Meaning if they want to have kids, they stop using contraceptives. If they say 3 is enough, they start using it again. So basically, it’s not contradicting anything. And by the way, since when do personal convictions and religious beliefs relate with supply distribution? Again, sir, read.
continued: “such concerned parents and couples, including unmarried individuals, should be afforded free and full access to relevant, adequate and correct information on reproductive health and human sexuality and should be guided by qualified State workers and professional private practitioners;” You take things out of context. Let’s face the fact that kids will and DO experiment with their sexuality. There is no force on this earth that can stop that. The least we can do is prevent them from having kids they can’t take care of or would you prefer the child suffer for the stupidity of the couple? also “non-marital sex, abortion, promiscuity, fornication, incest” happen everyday even without the existence of this bill. This bill seeks to prevent kids being born out of wedlock, or from irresponsible parents. It also seeks to educate everyone of the dangers of such activities like STD. READ!
Continued: Why are priests and nuns not involved? I think it has something to do with a little thing called “SEPARATION OF CHURCH FROM STATE”. I’m getting tired of telling you this… READ!
Section 3j: the clear BENEFIT this will bring to the poor is that they will have better family planning skills, and oh yeah, FEED, CLOTHE, AND AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR KIDS BECAUSE THEY CAN MANAGE THEIR FINANCES BETTER!!!!
Section 3l: l. Respect for, protection and fulfillment of reproductive health rights seek to promote not only the RIGHTS and WELFARE of adult individuals and couples but those of adolescents’ and children’s as well; This paragraph speaks of the RIGHTS and WELFARE of adolescents and children! read AND UNDERSTAND!
Section 3m: POST ABORTION COMPLICATIONS means miscarriage of a pregnancy and not abortion from a clinic. Nalaglag, hindi NILAGLAG! Please read again…. and of course abortion has complications, that’s one of the reasons the government outlawed it in the first place!
Your definition of terms:
“Individuals” have the right to want to have kids and not want to be married. It’s their right. There is no law that makes it illegal since the law does not discriminate on religious views.
“Reproductive Health” why no spiritual and moral? Because the law leaves that to the church. See? The government does not intervene with church jurisdiction. Neither should the church meddle in government rules. That’s why the church was separated from state because of abusive monks and priests, remember?
Continued: “This implies that PEOPLE are able to have a SATISFYING and SAFE SEX LIFE, that they have the CAPABILITY TO REPRODUCE and the freedom to DECIDE if, WHEN AND HOW OFTEN TO DO SO, provided that these are not against the law.” This is self explanatory. Like I said, people have the right to make their own choices without prejudice, which you are clearly full of by the way. The government respects this, so should the church. The “WHEN AND HOW OFTEN TO DO SO” refers to REPRODUCING. Please learn to read. There are courses offered by TESDA for basic English.
I’m going to quote you on this because this is too funny 😀
“Section 4. (d): “Reproductive Health Rights – refers to the rights of INDIVIDUALS and couples to DECIDE FREELY AND RESPONSIBLY the number, spacing and timing of their children.”
–> Again, the ‘individual’ word. Does this bill really promotes population control in which I can decide freely and responsibly the number of children? Suppose I receive great pay, I can raise about 15 children. What a population control. This bill is too vague.”
Like I said, free will. But the key word here is “RESPONSIBLY” unless the definition for the word “responsible” is to have as many kids as humanly possible, financially provide for them, but offer no guidance or mentoring or going to every kids school activity while working full time.
Lastly, men have as much (if not more) sexual urges as women so men should also be responsible enough to do the right thing.
RH bill FTW
I strongly oppose the enactment of this bill. thanks for your explanations. I would like to have a copy of this item. thank you so much. God bless.
I strongly disagree with this bill. it will just increase premarital sex which means immorality so definitely women especially those at a very young age would do such immorality without thinking. I go with my religion. Thank you. God Bless.
We are really at the end of times era. These are all Satans works. The Government maybe should pass a Bill instead that teaches sex without marriage is a crime, having sex with person other than your spouse is a crime.
People have been persuaded by the devil that they are entitled to have sex when they choose, rejecting any unwanted life that may result. The enemy may tell you “God is too demanding and unreasonable”. “If we distributed more condoms we would not have disease or the need to abort babies”. “It’s God’s fault because God’s Church is against the use of condoms”.
Sexual intercourse, by its nature and intent is potentially life giving act. This is God’s version. The enemy’s version is that sex can be closed to give life and used for physical pleasure only. Enemy’s version of sex is selfish, emotionally dangerous, and bad for humanity. The enemy offers an answer to this too, and led souls to avoid consequences by offering widespread contraception and abortion. Both men and women are now told that sinful sexual behaviors are allowable and acceptable. God intends that a man and woman enter a blessed union (through marriage) and then share their sexuality with one another. The devil is mocking God because he depicts God’s purpose. He is laughing because many led astray on this sin.
i dreaming of a HUGE asteroid hitting and destroying the earth and killing every living organisms, and germs like humans. It is a RESET folks!
We should be aware how Satan works. As he said “I Pretend to love men, in order to destroy them; serve them, in order to ruin them and deceive them; help them, in order to pervert them and draw them into these my hellish regions.”
Isn’t it this bill is one of its form that says will help us? We are deceived then by him if this one will be approved. Satan’s plan is to destroy us by having and committing sins against God.
since marcos time, contraceptives were already in use, did population decline? from city to far flung areas, almost in every corner of the Philippine archipelago, couples, fornicators, adulterers if not all but almost all been using these trashes, did population again declined? and what we got? sex starve generation, uncontrolled sexual urges and it is because of the luck of discipline regarding sexuality, because instead of educating people, the government offer them condoms, pills etc.
yes, contraceptives are already out way back then but how many knows how to use them?
meron nga ankong kabarangay, 9 na ang anak, tinuruan sila ng mga health worker nang pagamit ng condom. tinry nila, pagkatapos, tinapon nung lalake ung lahat ng condom nya. “putang ina, walang pakiramdam.” 12 na anak nila ngayon.
saka, poppulation will NEVER decline unless you go out there and shoot at each other. ITS THE RATE OF POPULATION GROWTH that is the isue!
other progressive countries have their P.growth rate by near 0% each year. meaning, namamaintain nila ang pupulation nila.
imagine mo nga, kung meh rate tayo na +20% kada taon. para na tayong squater lahat by 2020.kahit sa mga probinsya. USE YOUR BRAIN! GOD GAVE IT FOR YOU TO USE IT.
DOESN’T KNOW HOW TO USE IT? WHY? IS USING CONTRACEPTIVES THAT COMPLICATED? STUPID IDEA DUDE. PLAINLY STUPID. YOU SHOULD USE YOU BRAIN.
Wrong! You should use yours. Kahit tumaas pa ng kaunti ang birth rate ng Pilipinas, hindi tayo magiging squatters sa 2020 o kahit pa sa 2050. Feeling mo siguro di ka na mamamatay. Ilan na ba sa 7,107 islands ng Pilipinas ang occupied ng tao? ABOUT 4,000. Gaano karami ang mahigit 3,107 islands? Does it sound small a number to you? But then again, huwag mong pagkamalian na lahat ng buhay ngayon ay buhay pa sa 2020. Hayaan mo, pag namatay ka, the country will be one citizen lesser than before.
your so idiot…. do you think ganyan ang buhay pagdating ng 2020?? naisip mo ba ang kalagayan ng mga tao pagdating ng panahong yan?? your so blind– tingnan mo ang kapaligiran- force child labor, AIDS dito AIDS doon, sa sobrang dami ng tao di na kayang tustusan pa, tapos ano??!! gobyero ang may kasalanan… hahaha!! naghahanap lang kayo ng masisisi…
Issue…kulang tayo sa disiplina kaya ang kikitid ng utak ng iba..papayag kayo sa bill na yan, imoral na tao naman ang kalalabasan…eh ano kung mahirap tayo externally? may mga taong materially poor pero mataas ang moralidad..bakit hindi magawa ng iba ang nagagawang tama ng ilan? gusto lagi ng magandang buhay, ayaw naman magsakrispisyo para sa kabutihan..shuskupo, kailangan pa nating mag-aral para lumago ang tamang kaisipan..
….TAMA TANGA LAMANG ANG MARUNONG MAG ISIP NANG GANYAN NA PANGET NA SULOSYON/..SA GANYANG PROBLEM…
i will vote villar because he opposes this bill. that’s Villar’s edge for me.
MALAY MO SIYA ANG NAG PATUPAD PERO DI LAHAT NANG TAO AY KAYANG SUNDIN ITO….
common people. RH bill does not promote abortion. period. it seeks to educate young about their sexuality so that they would not engage in that thing too young just because of curiosity and ignorance. Also it protects women from different abuses.
1.READ THE WHOLE BILL BEFORE EVERYTHING ELSE
2.DON’T LET THE CHURCH DICTATE WHAT YOU SHOULD THINK. GOD HAS GIVEN YOU A BRAIN IN THE FIRST PLACE. USE IT!
3.”MAY SOLUSYON ANG OVERPOPULATION AT ABORTION. ANG LIBOG WALA!” bakit? kahit gano ka katanda at ka mature, tao ka pa din, di ka alien.
this is SO WRONG! BE AFRAID AND ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. YOU DUNNO WHAT YOUR SAYING.
Hi. I just want to comment on your sentences:
–> The RH Bill does promote abortion, promiscuity, etc.
–> Sexuality has already been taught even without the RH Bill.
–> Women is not protected by abuses, but they are more prone to abuses due to the fact of contraception, etc. Also, the women is endangered when using contraceptives because it is bad for their health too.
–> I have mastered the Bill and see that their are good effect from the bill. However the bad effects overcomes the good effects. This is what most people didn’t see through it.
–> With respect to my presentation on my post #13, I have not only based my analysis from the Church teachings. The bill is contradicting in itself in some of its sections to the other sections. The bill has many irregularities, and erroneous statements, as I have briefly explained on my post #13. I have used my God-given brain to draw out my analysis with the help of the Holy Spirit.
–> Overpopulation and abortion cannot be prevented (even a slight) through the RH Bill as explained in post #14.
Thank you so much.
hindi mo naiintindihan ang pagiging “tao” para sabihin mong ang libog ay walang solusyon. hayop lang ang hindi makaka-regulate ng kanyang sexual urge dahil wala syang will-power. akala ko ba may brain ka? kung sabagay, hindi lahat ng may brain, my mind, logic, at correct reasoning. IKAW ANG MAGBASA NG RH BILL PAULIT-ULIT NANG MAINTINDIHAN MO ANG TUNAY NA SINASABI NITO. educate your brain!!!
YOUR RIGHT WHAT YOU SAID BECAUSE ONLY YOU KNOWS IF YOU LIKE IT OR NOT….. …. .. THATS WHY IT DEPENDS ON YOUR SELF…..MALAY MO YOUR SUCH LIKE….._______?????
poor one. mababaw nga alam mo sa mga bagay na pinag usapan dito. yon lang point talaga.
I replace your intended meaning with my own interpretation. BY THOR’S MIGHTY BEARD IT HAS A RECIPE FOR FETUS NOODLES!
hi, neigyl. thanks for spending ur time in trying to form and express ur opinion as best as you could. we need people like you to let us see the “light”..i have some question/comment though;they are written below every comment you made. good day sir.
I will respond to every ** in your comments.
**
material international standards, class international standards, trends, music standards, vehicle standards, matter of living standards, job international standards are all different from MORAL standards. Many people think of the world as a material thing. We have all wealth; but where will it go when we die? I don’t say that we will no longer need to achieve wealth–we need to in order to live a happy life.
Going back to the topic, we know we have international standards about abortion, contraception, etc. but we Filipinos have our own way of understanding those things. Example: International Standard: abortion is removing the fetus from the womb. Filipino Standard: abortion is killing and is a murder. If, on the first place, we dont know our standard, then that’s a problem.
The Church taught us that contraception is bad. Biologist taught us that contraceptives is bad for the women’s health. I guess it’s enough to bear.
**
I am a Computer Engineer and I am an ordinary guy who ordinarily vote during the past election just like the other people. Again, I base my analysis based on my own understanding of things–not focusing more on the Church teaching. I am sorry to tell you that you yourself do not understand what Section 2, 3rd paragraph means, as in my explaination there. Also, I am not scaring. I am just posting here my opinion based on my own conscience (and maybe with the help of the Holy Spirit) how this RH Bill works. Sad to say, I am only posting here the errors on the bill on my personal basis.
**
**
I will elaborate my explanation further. The bill is entitled: Reproductive Health Bill. The two sections you have mentioned only stated that natural family planning method exists other than the artificial ones. Also, it merely defines that the natural ones is not prohibited and is fine. Natural family planning method is stated in the bill only 3.54% on the entire bill (in words). How can it promote the natural family planning method? Remember that reproductive health also involves the natural ones but is only found 3.54% in the Bill.
**
I love playing chess and I predict in advance the moves of my opponent. I know chess is different from life matters so I will not say that both are analogous. I see that this section has already been present today–the rich become richer, the poor become poorer. Thus, I am not predicting things.
**
I only state watching x-rated films as an example to be concrete. You can give many examples as you like like choice of pre-marital sex, choice of non-marital sex, etc.
Thanks for your comment. Please ask for more clarifications if possible and i will answer them precisely if i have time. Thanks.
It is quite difficult to discern good and evil in today’s materialistic and corrupted world where all is evaluated from the point of view of gain and wealth, beauty or physical appearance, power and success; because evil is often disguise as good and virtuous. Didn’t we understand that Satan works secretly and hides himself for us to be able to know? Many would say that our generation today is very lucky than the earlier days. We have lots of innovations and advance technologies; the televisions, cinemas, internet, laptops, ipod, PSPs, games and many other gadgets. Didn’t we know that all of these seduce humanity to become materialistic and were invented to lead humanity astray? Look at the television and cinemas, Satan mentioned that TV is one of his favorite invention. This is his instrument to destroy every soul and families thru violent and corrupted programs with impurities and immorality. Isn’t it that our generation is much corrupted than before because of this? Let’s take another one: most have ipods and the likes in other forms as mp3 player, etc and carry it anywhere; Satan wants to introduce noise and some form of entertainment; it is his way to forget and distract our communication to God thru prayers. It is in silence that you will hear God. It is in silence that God will hear you when you pray. Look at the credit cards; it is there so that one can buy even without money. It encourages us to buy and buy more things. The PSPs and other game gadgets, the children at home prefer it rather than to play or talk with their parents. Even old ones are addicted to it. The internet is there as another way to propagate corruption, immorality and impurity. Many are addicted to it and prefer to surf, look for porn pictures, movies and even play. Satan wants us to sin and always keep us busy to forget God. Contraceptives are there so that nobody can conceive a child. As a result, it introduces sexual abuse. All these are Satans instrument. Satan knows that these things bring more of negative impact to humanity than of the positive impact. Thus, it is his way and instrument for the fulfillment of his plans. These are so many things today that we think helps humanity a lot. But in essence it is there so that humanity can be lead astray to God. Satan said “I Pretend to love men, in order to destroy them; serve them, in order to ruin them and deceive them; help them, in order to pervert them and draw them into these my hellish regions.”. We are then deceived if we believe that what’s happening in our world today was just fine. All of this and many things are works of Satan thru the Black Beast mentioned in the Apocalypse (Revelation) part of the Bible. We are really near the end times. Study yourself, maybe you already had the mark of the beast (666) in your forehead and right hand.
Many of us were unaware of what their sins are. Our everyday life is mixed with sin that we no longer pay attention to it. This is because we are blinded by darkness and we think that what we doing were just normal. In case we are aware of our sins, we persist and continue to do it. We are hesitant or don’t want to change at all. Mortal sin is our number one enemy, since it is only and derisive cause of the damnation of souls that are in hell. In other words, those who die suddenly while in a state of mortal sin suffer the punishment of hell. It is told by the Blessed Mother, that “sins of the flesh” is the most reason why many people goes to hell. Many abuse their sexuality today; contraceptives, masturbation, infidelity with their partner, premarital sex and” live-in and sex” without marriage. In the Bible, Jesus told us that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. All of these are sin which we think are normal during this time. As our Blessed Mother told us in Her apparitions, “Too Many Souls Are Going To Hell”.
Satan is very much triumphant today!!! Because many doesn’t know how he works. And he really hides. Indeed, many volunteers to help him. All of these needs to be fulfilled before the Second Coming of our Lord.
The concept of “Satan” was coined by the Christians who hated the pagans for worshiping their own god. They weren’t doing anything wrong; they were minding their own business. And yet the Christians burned them at the stake for not worshiping the god they worshiped.
Can you back up your claims please?
Not a single detail you said is recorded in history.
Do you even know Adam and Eve?
Do you even know Nero? and how the term ‘human torch’ came to be?
Well do you know that the bible is edited by the humans and so what happened before was not how it really was documented? And do you know that even priests claim that Adam and Eve may not even be real and may just be representations?
source of corruption,abortion, worst euthanasia,anything else?? there is nothing wrong with people trying to let us know that they are morally upright. absolutely nothing wrong either if they project themselves as a well fine tuned to their belief.i can only hope that you cant find nothing wrong with me if i’ll say: “you lacked the character that qualifies you to be morally upright, you are wanting of a virtue that matter most in each of our belief:FAITH..
by dropping words like abortion, euthanasia, etc to every word/phrase/sentence/paragraph that you think those words (abortion, euthanasia etc.) fits: you are shooting from the hip, you are shooting with eyes closed..
someone higher than us only required us to have a faith as tiny as a mustard seed in order for us to make the first big step towards addressing this problem. nothing is impossible in fact we can “command the mountain and order the mountain to plant itself into the sea”.
if ever -after hearing all the pros and cons and incorporating those pros and cons that makes sense- this bill becomes a law and in our journey we are to fall,we must pick ourselves up. amend the law to let it suit the needs of the day and the days to come.
the truth is, population growth is a real monster that all of us have to tackle. all of us means as one. whatever our religious belief is, our personal aspirations, dreams,ambitions and hopes must be set aside for the good of our country. the only country that we have. MABUHAY TAYONG LAHAT…
“…we must pick ourselves up. amend the law to let it suit the needs of the day and the days to come.”
Wow, this sounds good! But then again, no. Was Roe v. Wade amended to suit the needs of the day? Actually, after that decision, there was no turning back. I would recommend this reading: Supreme Court’s Evolving Rulings on Abortion, http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5029934. Amending laws and rulings is not as simple as you may think. It took us a people power revolution and hundreds of lives to amend the Philippine Constitution. Roe v. Wade has already taken more than 46 million lives (not yet included those that are linked to those lives) but the US Supreme Court rulings still uphold it. Do Americans want that? No. Even Norma McCorvey (Roe) regretted that and actually fights against its fruits now.
Think of that.
wilberg that link is all about legal abortion and nothing to do with rh bill…so you think rh is bill pro abortion??..if so, can you point it where exactly so that i can read and reread and reread it??
Yes, I do think, that is why this is the nearest example that I gave. But again, you still miss the target. In this particular reply, it is not the link between the RH bill and abortion that I am looking at. The key is in the title, “Evolving Rulings”. The point is, again, amending laws is not as simple as you might be thinking, and there is almost no turning backs. We see what you do not see and we would not even in dreams take the risk of RH bill holding our necks at the very first second that it would be passed as law. By the power of RH Bill Section 21, Article e, do you think you can even reply or comment to this post if you are in the opposite side? I assume that you were already born and thinking when the country is in Marcos era. And do you know how to spell this “health” bill? T-O-T-A-L-I-T-A-R-I-A-N.
faith means not wanting to know the truth. im sure God would want us to know the truth rather than make us afraid of unblinded fear.
one more thing wilberg, am right to say that, based on your link, rh bill is all about legalizing abortion??
No, you are not. Based on the link that I have given (if you read everything, of course, and if your chronology is correct), an evil law might kill billions of lives pointblank and publicly but could not be amended even after a number of decades and despite national protests.
roe vs wade..hmmm..this is certainly not the first time that ive encountered this post(differenr forum)…when it comes to abortion, baamm!! roe vs wade..
so what is the big deal about roe vs wade..?? rh bill is about abortion?
You should really be thinking that. Why the automatic reaction? Of course, “when it comes to abortion”, Roe v. Wade will be the first three words in mind because it is the central foundation of the abortion law (and/or mentality) in the US and all the US-influenced countries. I would be equally surprised if you say, “Why do people always speak of EDSA when they heard people power revolution and vice versa?”
Now, what is the big deal about Roe v. Wade in relation with the RH bill? Again, I will point you to a link that I wish you would at least try to honestly understand: http://faithandreasonblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/roe-v-wade-legacy-of-margaret-sanger.html. It would be enough if you know Margaret Sanger, how from being a criminal she became a “hero”, how she changed criminality into heroism, how many Americans (and American-mentality people) have her as their mother, how she has changed American and international laws, and how successful she is with her Negro Project even if she is already dead. Of course, these are not the only things that you can learn about Sanger, there is much more.
Read Sanger’s statement carefully: “To each group we explained what contraception was; that abortion was the wrong way—no matter how early it was performed it was taking life; that contraception was the better way, the safer way—it took a little time, a little trouble, but was well worth while in the long run, because life had not yet begun.” Sounds familiar? It is the exact claim of RH bill — saying yes to contraception is saying no to abortion, right? Wow, this is an anti-abortion stand! Now, here is the next level of Sanger’s national/global mentality manipulation (“pangbobobo” in my own Tagalog translation): “No one can doubt that there are times when an abortion is justifiable but they will become unnecessary when care is taken to prevent conception. This is the only cure for abortions.” At first, abortion was wrong “no matter how”, that is why we need contraceptives. In the next statement, “there are times when an abortion is justifiable” as opposed to “no matter how”. Now, this is the clever part, “…but they will become unnecessary when care is taken to prevent conception.” It still primarily promotes contraception but paves the way for abortion. When minds are already set, it is time to say these words: “The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it” (Women and the New Race Eugenics Publ. Co., 1920, 1923), “More children from the fit, less from the unfit — that is the chief aim of birth control” (Birth Control Review, May 1919, p. 12).
Now, was this just a US event? A very big NO. Where contraception is generally accepted, abortion becomes a commonplace.
good day wilberg…now before this gets out of hand. lets us not side step what is it that we are talking about..
..if you read the letter up to the latter;abortion,you can find none. in fact it is clearly stated that abortion is a crime.
..the clear intent of this bill is not abortion..it is not acceptable to put forth an interpretation that is not within the intent of this bill…one cannot bend the spirit of the bill and its authors just to be able to accommodate his/her interpretation that exactly runs counter to the intent of the bill and its authors….
to those who have apprehensions that this bill may lead to this or that, the best thing that you can do is to take an active part. let your voices be heard. attend public hearings, write to your congressman. let anyone not be cowed to do so, else im afraid you will, in the future, say, ” damn i told you so”..
thanks everybody for a wonderful discussion. i think i have said enough.
First of all, I believe that many of those who participated on this discussion did not fail to support a campaign, whether online or offline, against this bill with the intention to appeal to the representatives in Congress, and to inform also the senators and all the citizens. We do not just talk here but are silent everywhere else. Actually, the first article that I have regarding contraception was written many years ago (long before HB 5043) and was posted on my site on 2008. [1] http://sicar.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/kung-mahal-ninyo-silamagplano/ [2] http://sicar.wordpress.com/2008/03/14/huwag-idaan-sa-hula%E2%80%A6magplano-ng-pamilya/. I still have more articles in store (not yet composed) for some of my blogsites.
Second, we — pro-life individuals and movements — are not side stepping anything whether concerning RH bill or any other anti-life issues. We ask, we learn, and we speak up. We have decades of data on hand and we do not speak for a single piece of paper or even for a document that is 15 pages long (including the Fact Sheet and the Explanatory Note). On the other hand, what is being ignored by many, as if it is just something that we can remedy with one tablet of paracetamol afterwards, are the true and visible evil effects of contraceptive mentality.
Do you really believe that those who opposed this bill on the ground of being anti-life, anti-family, anti-nature, anti-God, anti-freedom, unnecessary, invasive, totalitarianistic, American, and many more are just some bunch of idiots who did not read this short bill and cannot discern the words behind the mind of its writers but instead invent issues to be scared about which are not really related to it? Think again. Are these people not aware of the past and present history of the field they are in and of what they were fighting against? HB 5043 is just an offspring of laws and proposals that are already enforced around the world. This is in no way new or surprising. It has been expected to come into being since many decades ago. Actually, former Senator Kid Tatad has been fighting against it in more or less 10 years now. Pope Paul VI foretold its effects 40 years ago which all came true not long after he wrote about it to the world. These are things that are really being disregarded. The concept of the RH bill is already 2000 years in the mind of the Church, and was already addressed 2000 years ago. We do not even know Edcel Lagman as pro-RH bill yet when we started the fight against his HB 5043. How is that? As I have said, this is not a new proposal, and the laws that gave birth to this has already started destroying the world, including families, marriages, relationships, one’s own self perception, morality, values, mentality, culture, mothers’ lives, and children’s lives very long time ago. Were those facts mentioned in the bill? It would not be. But are they not true? It is for you to find out.
I assume I do not have to repeat the points of post #5 and #10 anymore.
Yes, you have already said enough but have not yet listened enough. To know the intent of the bill and of “those who wrote it” (as I always emphasize) is as not as good as you see it. They know it very well. Hence the gestation of section 21 of the RH bill. “Any person who maliciously engages in disinformation about the intent or provisions of this Act” shall be punished. What is malicious? What is misinformation? Everything that is opposed to it is deemed malicious and a misinformation, commonsensically. And who would not be punished then? That would include you. Why the great fear? Why the insecurity of this bill? Why would it go to the extent of punishing people because of speaking against it? Where is the check and balance of democracy? And how many laws with Section 21-e will follow after this totalitarian bill? As I have said above, this Act do not uphold that abortion is a criminal act, it just recognizes the status quo of abortion in the Philippine law. RH bill is not the Constitution nor it is a Supreme Court ruling. All it can do is to acknowledge the criminality of abortion but not to affirm it as they want it to sound like. Again, as I have already related, Margaret Sanger who happened to be the mother of all these fights for contraception (?) pioneered this approach through her “innocent” words: “Abortion was the wrong way — no matter how early it was performed it was taking life…contraception was the better way, the safer way…” It appears that she criminalizes abortion, right? But only gullible people will believe Sanger and so the writers of the RH bill. They do not criminalize abortion; they deceitfully earn public trust. What is next? A progressive change of mentality.
Again, is this a US event? No, it is a world event.
Just think of this. Contraception “was” illegal everywhere. Today, it is legal almost everywhere. Those who promoted it were once criminals but are now heroes. Now, is abortion ILLEGAL on those countries where contraception is generally accepted? Where now is the claim that contraception seeks to criminalize abortion even more? The opposite is true — it legalized it. Who will protest?
If you were not convinced by Margaret Sanger (that is if you really learn about her which I doubt a great deal), maybe Henry Kissinger can. And who is he? This might add to your knowledge of him: [1] http://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/is-henry-kissinger-setting-obamas-foreign-policy/ [2] http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=85442 [3] http://wlym.com/text/NSSM200.htm. He might have existed long before you do. You were born under his international influence. You may want other names in the future. How about someone who is more known in the Philippines and around the world?
I assume I do not have to repeat the points of post #5 and #11 anymore.
Oh great thanks for explaining the RH bill in the context of evolving laws, specifically laws on contraception leading to abortion. And not that I’m playing ms.goody-two-shoes, let’s put faith aside, the thing is US still has problems with teenage pregnancies and abortion. So how can RH bill solve our problems today, look at US they have the same problems?
Let us also not forget John Holdren and his Ecoscience. This man just happened to be Obama’s Science Czar.
“Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society.”
“One way to carry out this disapproval might be to insist that all illegitimate babies be put up for adoption—especially those born to minors, who generally are not capable of caring properly for a child alone. If a single mother really wished to keep her baby, she might be obliged to go through adoption proceedings and demonstrate her ability to support and care for it. Adoption proceedings probably should remain more difficult for single people than for married couples, in recognition of the relative difficulty of raising children alone. It would even be possible to require pregnant single women to marry or have abortions, perhaps as an alternative to placement for adoption, depending on the society.”
“A program of sterilizing women after their second or third child, despite the relatively greater difficulty of the operation than vasectomy, might be easier to implement than trying to sterilize men.”
“In today’s world, however, the number of children in a family is a matter of profound public concern. The law regulates other highly personal matters. For example, no one may lawfully have more than one spouse at a time. Why should the law not be able to prevent a person from having more than two children?”
Of course, I do not have a whole day for giving examples here. You can provide yourselves of the document and read the whole book.
The title is: Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment
anu po ba ang mga ipinagbabawal na paraan ng abortion.
d. Proscription and hazards of abortion and management of post-abortion complications.
hindi malinaw kung anung mga uri ng abortion ang ipinagbabawal..
SEC. 10. Contraceptives as Essential Medicines. – Hormonal contraceptives, intrauterine devices, injectables and other allied reproductive health products and supplies shall be considered under the category of essential medicines and supplies which shall form part of the National Drug Formulary and the same shall be included in the regular purchase of essential medicines and supplies of all national and lord hospitals and other government health units.
baka naman yung mga kasama sa contraceptive as essential madecines ay gamit para sa abortion..dapat po malinaw kung anung mga gamot ang gagamitin as contraceptive essential medicines..
Lahat ng sinasadyang aborsyon (induced abortion) sa anumang paraan ay ipinagbabawal ng Konstitusyon, dahil ang lahat ng tao mula sa sinapupunan hanggang sa libingan ay may pantay-pantay na karapatan.
Contraceptives as Essential Medicines – Unang-una, hindi dapat tawaging “medicine” ang contraceptives dahil hindi ito ginawa upang ipanggamot kundi upang pigilan ang pagdadalantao. Pangalawa, at higit sa lahat, hindi ito dapat tawaging “essential” para isama sa listahan ng mga gagastusan ng mga mamamayan, dahil hindi ito pangunahing pangangailangan, at tulad ng nabanggit, hindi ito mga gamot. Sa totoong buhay, ang mga gamot na dapat ay hindi nawawala sa mga health center ay silang wala dito. Sabi nila, 11 babae ang namamatay araw-araw sa Pilipinas dahil sa kumplikasyon sa panganganak. Ito ang lagi nilang ibinibigay na dahilan kung bakit kailangan ng RH bill at kung bakit dapat gawing “essential medicines” ang mga contraceptive. Ibig sabihin, para maiwasan ang ganitong pagkamatay, dapat iwasan ang panganganak. Tama ba ito? Ngayon ang tanong, bago nila naisip na ipapasan sa mga mamamayan ang mga kagamitan at mga kemikal na gagamitin para pigilan ang pagdadalantao at ang panganganak, pinagpaguran ba muna nilang isabatas ang pagiging libre ng mga gamot para sa mga pangunahing sakit na pumapatay sa mga babae? Sa bawat 100,000 kababaihan, araw-araw ay namamatay ang 80 dahil sa sakit sa puso, 63 dahil sa vascular diseases, 51 dahil sa cancer, 45 dahil sa pneumonia, 23 dahil sa TB, 22 dahil sa diabetes, at 16 dahil sa lower chronic respiratory diseases. Hindi ba’t ang mga gamot sa mga sakit na ito ang dapat na ituring na essential? Gusto nila tayong pagastusin para sa mga “agent” na pipigil sa buhay habang hinahayaan nilang mamatay ang mga may sakit na nangangailangan. Ito ay isang desperado at garapalang paraan ng pag-ubos sa mga tao. Ang motto nila: “Iwasan ang pagsilang, tanggapin ang kamatayan.”
“baka naman yung mga kasama sa contraceptive as essential madecines ay gamit para sa abortion”
Ang Pill at ang IUD ay dalawa sa mga tinatawag na contraceptives, pero alam ng mga doktor na ito ay maaari din pumatay ng nasa sinapupunan (abortifacient), bagamat ito ay mahigpit na pinasisinungalingan ng mga ignorante, kung hindi man manlilinlang, na tagapagsulong ng RH bill.
*** abortion:
Abortion in any means is illegal in the constitution, in the community, in the church, and in the eyes of God.
*** subsection d.:
That is one of the many that made this bill erroneous and self-contradicting.
*** section 10:
“Essential” means necessary. “Medicine” means a healing substance. That means, considering contraceptives as essential medicine only tells us that such is necessary for our health. It simply implies that we shall take such contraceptives for the benefit of our health.
Please see post #19 for more of my explanations about this bill.
Thank you.
i think population control is not the solution of poverty…
then what is it…do you know how many starving children are here in our country today…saan mo sila ititira…puputulin nyo nanaman ang mga puno at papatagin ang mga kabundukan para gunawa ng pabahay para sa kanila…damn…you people don’t use you’re brains…mas maraming filipino means masmaraming dapat pagsilbihan…malaki ang chance na dumami nanaman ang magugutom…ahm…guys…kailan ba tayo matututo…the world is evolving everything is constantly chnging…buti sana kung kasing laki ng area ng bansa natin ang china…eh d kahit mag-anak kayo ng mag-anak ok lang…kaso nga…ultimong china…humahanap na ng ways para mabawasan ang populasyon nila…mga sir…kung gusto ninyong magkaroon ng TUNAY NA PAGBABAGo sa bansang pilipinas…eh maganda siguro simulan nyong baguhin ang mga pananaw nyo sa buhay…2010 na po…tama na ang mga lumang paniniwala……
This bill is not the only way to control the population in the Philippines. There are many different ways.
Some few suggestions would be:
(1)
Increase the literacy rates of Filipino people (in whatever way) so they can find jobs and get busy to work. In that way, they are not prone to private places where few gets horny and do their stuff there.
(2)
Encourage all young Filipinos to study hard and do their best on their studies so they may be successful in their carrier. Though related to number (1), this suggestion pertains to more Qualitive education and not just Quantitative education (where you graduated college and learned less). It is obvious that money is the problem. Their are many good ways to gain financial aid though with the help of God.
(3)
Encourage everyone to be religious not in words but in deeds, like visiting orphanages and the like.
If you don’t get why the points above will solve the population in the Philippines, then you have a problem.
God bless us all.
1. lol… #1 problem of our beloved country, less Job opportunities,.. many of us Filipinos are educated/ graduates of college, i think the problem is, less job offerings, don’t you think?.
2. how many times did we hear that from our parents-teachers? STUDY FUCKIN HARD, FOR YOU TO HAVE A BETTER FUCKING FUTURE… we did, yet[see reply #1]
3. The Philippines is a very religious country… kaya nga over populated tayo eh.. hehheheh…. [go and multiply!!]
i agree with number 69, tama na ang lumang paniniwala, hindi katulad nuong panahon ni jesus ang buhay ngayon… kahit hanap ng hanap ng solution ang gobyerno-investors for jobs, hindi nila mapunan, hindi mawala-wala ang unemployment, bakit? ikompara mo naman ang mga sanggol na ipinanganak sa halos 20 years kumpara sa dadalhin ng mga investors na work…..
1. many of us Filipinos are educated/ graduates of college, i think the problem is, less job offerings, don’t you think?.
I don’t think so. I have already seen many job fairs in different places, and there are times that companies present are more than those who apply. There are companies that get no line of applicants. And those who do have cannot accept the majority of applicants because they are not qualified. Being a college graduate does not necessarily equate being educated or skilled. There are more illiterate (so to say) college graduates than educated college graduates. Literacy is the problem and not job offers.
2. My parents and my teachers did not talk to me that way. [Before I forget to mention, attitude is number 1 factor in getting a job and being retained in it.] Maybe you did study hard but you are not everybody (and as I have said, it is multifactorial). Filipino minds are shaped (even by the parents) to see education — pertaining to academics — as “the key” to getting a job. The fact of the matter is, it is being learned that greatly affects whether you’ll find a job or not. It is not by just going to school, getting high grades, and marching with flying collars. A person is not learned unless he really is — being a graduate or a dropout is secondary. Skills, knowledge, and attitude are still foremost. It is not about job offers.
3. The Philippines is a very religious country… kaya nga over populated tayo eh.. hehheheh…. [go and multiply!!]
I don’t agree. Most Filipinos are Catholics but I can’t say that the country as a whole is religious. Filipinos are more superstitious than religious. Second point, all practicing Catholics are responsible citizens. They don’t need condoms or pills; only people who has no self mastery use those. When Catholics abstain, they do so purposely and joyfully — just the same when they conceive. Third point is there is no overpopulation. Malthusian myth was already debunked a long time ago. It is contraceptives and abortion propagandists who desperately inject this culture to the global mindset.
Gaya ng sinabi ko, maraming trabaho, kaunti ang qualified. I can even suggest a system that can make everybody in this forum a few hundred thousand pesos wealthier in less than a year. Prepare your hard work, determination, and sense of unity, and I’ll give you the system.
Mas mabuti kung ikukumpara mo kung ilang ulit na malaki ang populasyon ng Tsina sa Pilipinas, at kung ilang ulit na mas mayaman ang may malaking populasyon kaysa sa atin na hindi maiikumpara sa dami ng tao nila.
69, an pananaw mo ang iyong baguhin. humankind has the capability to adapt to any situation. ex. to enable urban areas like metro manila to accommodate more people and businesses, high rise buildings for business & settlements were introduced; ang susunod niyan underground constructions. New methods for food production were also introduced to triple the rate of production. Maglibot-libot ka nga sa Pilipinas kung gusto mo makita ang paglawak-lawak ng mga lupaing bakante at nakatiwangwag. Isa pa, pano magkaover population sa Pinas gayong milyong mga Pinoy nasa ibang bansa? Supplier po tayo ng humanpower sa halos lahat ng bansa. Marami na nga rin naging citizens na ng mayayamang bansa, baka nga isa ka na roon. Anong maraming pagsisilbihan? Ikaw ba si Juan Tamad? Kahit nga bulag, kaya ng Pinoy magkomponi ng appliances; yong putol ang kamay kayang mag-painting gamit paa o bunganga o magpalipad ng eroplano gamit ang mga paa. Kaya ikaw ang magbago ng pananaw.
did you guys know why China has a one child policy rule? tinuro ito dati sa school, at least sa school namin. and kung ichecheck nyo lang sa internet kung bakit sila nagpatupad ng one child policy, eh para umunlad naman ang bansa nila. lubog sa kahirapan and anak ren ng anak sa china nuong panahong mahirap na mahirap na mahirap sila. malaki ang lupain ng china, pero kailangan pa ren nilang icontrol yung population nila.
do you guys know na pag buntis nanaman yung babae para sa ikalawang anak (or ikatlong anak kung may lalaki na silang anak), eh kahit 5 months na yung nasasinapupunan eh tuturukan nila ng gamot para malaglag yung baby… ganun sila kalupit. ganun sila magpatupad ng batas, para sa ikabubuti ng lahat.
pero hindi naman ganyan ang gustong mangyari ng RH bill. hindi ganun katindi ang pilipinas magpatupad ng batas. nakakatakot na ata yung sa china.
so hindi ko maintindihan, kung bakit ang daming anti-RH bill. masyadong magaling mag english mga nagcocomment, di ko masyado maintindihan so need ko pa isearch sa google yung meaning ng ibang word. bakit hindi nyo subukang maglakad sa paligid nyo, subukan nyong dalasan ang pagdaan sa squatters area. makikita nyo, ang tatamad ng mga squatters, ang daming anak, ang tamad talaga. hindi sila nakakaawa, kasi ang tamad talaga nila sobra. tambay lang… yung mga lalaki kung may work, tuwing week ends eh inuman so nawawala yung suweldo nila.
tamad + squatters + maraming anak
parami sila ng parami. kahit anung bansa pa, di kakayaning solusiyonan ang problema ng kahirapan. kung hindi titino ang mga squatters, paano sila mababawasan.
turuan sila ng family planning para naman sila anak ng anak. kaso, iaapply kaya nila????
Wrong. It’s not the Church who determines which is right and which is wrong. Your teacher did not taught you that 1+1 is 2 just because he/she wants it to be the answer. Truth is objective and nobody can change it. The Church is a teacher and she relays (not determines) the truth. It is Jesus who says that fornication violates God. Well, I think you’re not a Christian that is why you don’t know it, but you should know better when it comes to respect, simply because you are human. You don’t want your wife or daughter or mother being used by other people (multiple in number, if sex outside of marriage is not wrong) for their selfish carnal pleasure. If premarital sex is fine, then extramarital and promiscuity is fine. If promiscuity is fine, then pornography is fine. If pornography is fine, the sex education with practical exams (e.g. petting, necking, intercourse, same-sex, and even pervert sexual acts) are fine. It would also follow that incest is fine, that child abuse is fine, and rape is fine. It’s ringing a bell. Doesn’t it the one being promoted by Planned Parenthood Federation — “Sexual Freedom”?
Now, is it just the Church? You say that premarital sex is not immoral because that is what you want it to be. Sorry, but it can’t be.
True. Even for me I’m not Christian I highly disapprove of premarital sex. But for me, it might not be the best way for God-fearing people, this could actually be one way for us to stop over-population. Why? Because being preached about it is not enough and I’m pretty sure people wouldn’t follow all what the Church says. The RH bill for me is one way to stop over-population and most people would actually follow it. So unless the church could do anything better to actually help stop that problem I would actually support it.
So does that mean we are Pro Premarital sex now. Imagine raising a teen, specially a teen girl, your giving her advices about life, about boys and then this bill is already passed.
TAYAY : anak pipiliin mo yung lalaking
makakasama mo sa buhay ha,
ipakilala mo yung mga nanliligaw
sayo. Hwag maglilihim kay tatay,
maraming lalaki jan katawan lang
habol sa babae,piliin mo yung
responsable
etc..
then in the middle of his father’s advice, guidance.. this pops into her mind.
ANAK : ( Ok lang nagtatake naman ako ng pills eh.. party party :)) )
Then whats the essense of good parenting, anong saysay ng pagpapamilya, magpapalaki ka ng anak mo d ka sinusunod, biologicallly related lang kayo pero anong saysay non??!!! Hindi lahat ng anak magiging mabait kahit ulanin mo ng payo, kaya nga hindi natin kailangnan ng mga bagay na makakadagdag pa sa pagpapahirap sa pagpapalaki sa kanila.
yan ba gusto nyong manahin sa administrasyong to, those law makers just come and go, but the laws the make ang hirap buwagin nyan.. when you realized its not worth it, ang hirap na lalo na kung may mga nakikinabang na sa budget.
you treating that thing called “morality” as if were just a pile of garbage that nids to be thrown, YAN ANG NAGPALAYA SA PILIPINAS FROM DICTATORSHIP!
We’re you replying to what I said? If you we’re, then I say that I already said that I dissapprove of premarital sex but I have to agree on using contraseptives. I agree with your statement but not all people, even the educated, have morals and as long as people aren’t allowed to use something that could prevent accidents/unwanted children who would’nt even be raised with morals. It’s not about morals because I believe if we all have “good” morals we wouldn’t be having this crisis. And once again if we all have good morals we wouldn’t have to implement this law.
The most effective method is abstinence, which the Church teaches consistently even before we were born. If you do not want to have children, don’t have sex. Difficult? That’s because you believe that sex is an ESSENTIAL need like food and water. But the truth is, you can live a long life without having sex. Sex, though is needed by humanity for the continuity of its survival. Australia & Canada are just some of the developed countries encouraging inflow of productive & skill people of our nationalities as permanent residents to replenish their aging and dying population.
hay nako… sa mga impotent lang yan.
tamaaaaaaaaaaaa….. besides the meaning of the word morality, ay magiging depende kong sino anf pinaninilawalan mong philisopher hahahaha
Premarital is immoral, not because that’s the church want you to say but because sex is a sacred thing. If sex is a sacred thing, then you must have an authority to do it, then the authority is given through MARRIAGE. Just like driving, you cannot drive unless you have an authority to drive, you cannot be a driver unless you have a license. You have to be processed before you do a big thing!!!
Put down Edcel Lagman who is the proponent of RH Bill 96.
I have a little scenario:
Suppose that RH Bill becomes a law. Imagine when a 17 year old boy buys condom to have sex with his girlfriend. (Of course this is not against the law right? And pre-marital and non-marital sex is also not against the law. And remember that condoms become ESSENTIAL MEDICINES). That boy loves the feeling and buys more to do more until he become addicted to it. Suppose they do it three times a week or more and their parents are not aware of it.
Without moral values or whatever, here are my questions:
1. In your opinion, is it okay for the boy to become addicted with sex knowing that the girl will not get pregnant?
2. Are there no viral complications on both the girl and the boy?
3. What will happen when their is an accident that the condom fails to perform its function?
Please see post # 24 for more details… Thank you.
Mr. Neigyl, the way I interpret your given scenario is that…
“If the RH Bill is passed, then, the church and parents will no longer teach their children good moral values and just let them buy contraceptives, and that they are choosing the MFP than NFP, but are we just bound to that choice given in the Bill?”
It’s like,
(1) don’t let your children use the internet because they might visit some porn site if they are alone
(2) don’t let your child(girl or boy) be friends with its opposite sex because it is possible that they may have an intimate relationship and end up in sex
(3) don’t attend the church mass because there are some priest who are involve in sex/corruption scandals and they might influence your children.
So what I am trying to say is, God has given us heart and mind to choose for what is right and what is wrong and to balance things. If God is in your heart, then given any information and choices, you will choose what is highly right, morally and spiritually.
I totally disagree with your comment, sorry.
Mr. Neigyl I think that what you should worry about is that:
Will that 17 yr-old boy addicted to sex that buys condom for protection will be a GOOD PARENT in the future!?
and if he becomes a parent what kind of upbringing can this 17- yr old addicted to sex do.?
without any moral value issues
–> This leads everyone to an intuition that a 17 year old boy is okay to be addicted to protected sex as long as he become a good parent in the future.
There are many things to consider here my friend:
(1) Health: All contraceptives affect the health of both sexes having sex. Here are few sources:
http://www.epigee.org/guide/medfaq.html
http://www.woomb.org/omrrca/bulletin/vol25/no2/effects.shtml
http://www.obgyn.net/educational-tutorials/wellsetal/Sarc-Conf.ppt
(2) Education: Sex affects one’s brain especially at young age. Here again are my sources:
http://www.straight.com/article-170662/too-much-sex-brain
http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain
(3) A Young’s future: There is a high probability that that certain individual can destroy his future.
(4) There are many more factors.
–> We are not only bounded of the decision. However, the bill is leading to that. See?? Contraceptives are made as Essential Medicines (Section 10). We can decide when and how often to have sex (Section 4c). It made us approach to the boundaries of certain illness that contraceptives can give to ones health. Take note, i do not consider moral values here.
–> There is nothing wrong with that because everyone seems to be doing it (1), and it is normal to be attracted to the opposite sex; abnormal otherwise (2). What is not wrong is its application to it at the wrong time, which is obviously the worst effect of this bill.
–> Considering moral values. God indeed give us wisdom. But Satan is also giving us confusions. It depends on where one is to decide. The probability density of one to be influenced by the bad effects of this bill is high. I am not saying that the bill is bad at all, there are good things in it. See my post #66 (plus minus) for a thorough explanation of this bill.
Thank you.
you know what? with or without condom, the boy would get addicted to sex with the scenario you had given.
and to tell you, mas gusto ng tao ang walang condom. mas nakakaaddict ang walang condom.
kung makikipag sex sya 3 or more times a week, may condom or wala, gagawin nya iyon. kaya nga ang daming nabubuntis kasi hindi nila alam na mabubuntis sila sa isang ganunan lang. and ang daming guys na hindi nila sukat akalaing mabubuntis yung girl.
Mr. Neigyl, it is better to use condom for a boy age 17 years old than using nothing! ikaw ba naman makabuntis sa murang edad.
correlation does not mean causation. some people here tend to quickly roll down the slippery slope. and some even think of the extremes. imo, if the bill doesnt get passed there will still be people who will opt to use contraceptives, and if the bill does get passed, there will be people who will prefer natural intercourse.
of all the comments, i liked madsen’s the most. there are people who tend to think of the extremes.
anyway, here are some of my points:
1. i believe that the country’s growing population is a problem that must be resolved. our land area is not growing, in fact it may even decrease, so if birth rate grows faster than the death rate, there will come a time when our land mass would not be enough to accommodate everybody. but population is not the only problem. we also need to promote sustainable consumption of our resources. even if there were only a thousand Filipinos in this country but they consume the resources faster than they can replenish it, resources will eventually be depleted.
2. is pre-marital sex really wrong? and if it is, what makes it wrong? is it because sex is made only for procreation? does this mean married couples who don’t want to have children don’t have sex anymore? i think sex is an act of love. it strengthens relationships. if you do it only with the person you love, there’s no problem with it. and getting addicted to sex is relative. having sex frequently doesn’t mean you’re already addicted to it.
3. foremost, education is the key to solving the population boom. people must be made aware that sex is not only an emotional act but also biological. and it has social implications, not only within oneself, one’s family, one’s community, but the entire country. the youth are not the only ones who need to be educated. parents should also be taught how to teach their children about reproductive health. you cannot just say something is immoral or wrong, children nowadays are very witty and inquisitive. you have to prove to them why something is immoral or wrong. of course, moral education care of the church and its allies is still indispensable. but we need more than that, we need allowances and restrictions from outside (as opposed to allowances and restrictions guided by our conscience/morality) to guide our actions. If we need a policy to prevent people from throwing trash on the streets because of lack of discipline, what’s wrong with that?
side notes: of course, pornography will not be shown in class. that’s an exaggeration. teachers teach based on a curriculum. children can have better access to pornography in homes (such as through the internet) and DVD stores than in schools.
and please, don’t refer to this country as a catholic country (or something to that effect). a country heavily grounded on spiritual beliefs may be more proper. spirituality is not defined by religion.
4. to continue my point in #3, with education comes an awareness of methods that can be used to prevent pregnancy. so this bill can actually increase access to such methods. it’s true, the bill is lacking in promoting natural methods. and i agree that it should not classify contraceptives under the category of essential medicines. that puts them at par with basic goods such as meat and poultry, canned goods, rice, fish, bread, etc. (see Price Act). however, classifying it under essential medicines has its benefits, too. it means that the government will have to regularly monitor the costs of these contraceptives and work to keep their costs at reasonable levels. it offers consumers protection against profiteering and cartel.
–> How much more when the bill becomes a law and the contraceptives become ESSENTIAL MEDICINES (sold famously on pharmacies)? Many people will use more of contraceptives.
–> How is this possible when contraceptives are suggested and required to Filipinos (Contraceptives as ESSEMTIAL MEDICINES)?
in case you didn’t know. some contraceptives are ACTUALLY used as medicines. for women with polycystic ovaries, they actually need pills to be treated. if they stop taking pills, they develop cysts. just because people use pills, doesn’t mean they’re all for it. if it’s their health on the line then why not.
I respect your opinion but I think you may be a bit rash. I’m still unresolved about this bill but whether we like it or not, there are people who will ACTUALLY benefit from this in a good way. My 2 cents. 🙂
You concluded outrightly Mr. Noval. Essential doesn’t equate to ‘required’. Like what the bill is pushing, everything that happens after people are informed of all the possible choices of family planning and responsible parenthood, is entirely up to the people themselves. They can choose natural or artificial methods. Some people, like you maybe, who don’t like artificial methods, can opt not to use them.
MORALITY NA ANG KAILANGANG PAG-USAPAN!
Hindi kung ano mang batas na magpapayaman ng bansa,
o magpapaganda ng buhay!
MORALITY is NOT an OPTION !!!
IT is NECESSARY.
they are just wanting to have sex with anyone they will like. that’s why they are not denying RH-bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Pls if you really hate the Catholic Church that much dont use this.
There are much important Projects that nids this budget, like EDUCATION.
We cant go to school without money, allowances, thats why we nid to give our focus on Education. making it more possible for poor students to go to schools. more Scholarships.
On the other hand we can just disciplne those irresponsible people that treat sex like dinner to stop and imposing humane laws, have a background check on how many child they can make,then if they become wealthy enough to support many kids in the future, then probably another justification should be made. Some will say its not humane, to take away your freedom of choosing how many child you should raise. But what is more humane, this how-many-child-I-can-bear policy or preventing that life to live inside you.? just a question.
and another thing, bka kasi maabuso lang to ng mga religious group na nanghikayat at nagpaparami ng kasapi, kapatid. Pwede kasi magamit ng magagandang members ung pills pra d mabuntis,pagnagkagirlfriend ka syempre sasabihin sayo non, “bawal ako makipagrelasyon sa d ko kaparehas ng religion” ikaw syempre dami nyo ng nagwa,nagppremarital sex narin kayo, syempre inlove un,:)) , tapos mo magpaconvert pano kung iniwan ka. :))
Tell me, how do you discipline sex-crazed let alone adults? I think providing them information about responsible parenthood and family planning is a more viable option than having to visit every house in the Philippines and evaluating everyone whether they can support their children or not. And having to evaluate families and telling them to stop producing children violates their freedom. Why not empower them by giving them the freedom to make informed choices on their own?
screw the church. those knuckleheads have gone too far in controlling the world. i’d say support this bill, don’t give those darth vader wannabes a chance to control the philippines
the RH Bill empowering women to make the right choice and decisions in family planning…it should go hand in hand with DISCIPLINE in terms of sex…specially young couples….through education and health information drive to teenagers…at school and home…and we wish that PARENTS nowadays will be responsible enough in terms of educating their kids…we teachers do teach kids the consequences and encourage them to prioritize their studies…we wish also that parents wud do the same to find tym in guiding their children…:) its really up to the FAMILY the basic foundation of the society whether to choose natural or artificial method of family planning…we hope that the responsible parenthood wud be given the utmost priority:)
It’s like saying, “Hand those kids a handful of candies and educate them that candies are not good.”
Responsible sex and parenthood education is the key to a a sustainable human development–a better society–not these condoms, pills, etc.
tamaaaaaaaaaaaaa…………
they’re practically handing out condoms/contraceptives like candy. given the power and nature human sexual urges, why would anyone want to do natural family planning methods that take time as opposed to contraceptives that can provide instant gratification?
the bill is supposed to empower women and it does on many levels, but i think a possible adverse effect could be abusive men who might run amok (with free condoms in hand) and “sow their seed” without having to face the consequences.
–> I thank you for having seen the effect of this Bill. That is indeed one of the important points to consider here. I guess Filipinos have increased their level of “horniness” or sexual urge, that is why the government have blindly created this bill.
(1) There will be more of the Filipinos’ sexual urge since contraceptives are now on retail at available price and is considered as “ESSENTIAL MEDICINES”. Having said that and considering the worst effect of contraceptives and sex on young couples, there will be more Filipinos who can no longer think logically and critically, do work efficiently, and everyone is bounded on this essential medicine.
I am a Catholic, and I stand by the Church decision!! I am sad that many other Catholics are opposing against it. Many are Catholic by name and doesn’t understand and work to deepen its faith. We must support our Church; it knows what’s good and bad, for it is from God. If it is from God, then who are attacking it? Satan, the enemy. He only wants to ruin our soul and help us to offend God more thru his wise tactics that many are not aware. He often mixed good with bad and truth with false to confuse us. Exactly as what this RH bill is.
He said “I Pretend to love men, in order to destroy them; serve them, in order to ruin them and deceive them; help them, in order to pervert them and draw them into these my hellish regions”. Exactly, this RH bill is one of his ways.
It is indeed true that words of Jesus from visionaries and mystics are happening right now “My Church will be persecuted to a degree never seen before as evil has reached a height that has never before been seen on Earth. She shall suffer and be persecuted. She has been judged already in this scourging soon to carry the great cross to Her Calvary where she shall be crucified, tormented and mocked, and believed to have died and been destroyed”
Its true that Jesus Christ kingdom is not of this world. Satan’s claim is fulfilling “I am the King of this world” because many are under his control and power.
We will be accountable to God on everything that we do. Do not judge especially our priests and even more the bishops. Jesus said to Gloria Polo, “Who did you think you were making yourself God and judging my anointed? They are human, and the holiness of a priest is built by his community, that prays, loves, and supports him. When a priest sins his community is questioned, not him.” Jesus showed her how the many demons were attached to her when she do it.
John 8:7 “He that is without sin among you, let him cast first a stone”.
Our Church is from God, it is the only one left that’s opposing to the attack of the evil right now. Nobody is opposing but only the Catholic Church! Many had gone to the other side embracing the enemy in attacking the Church and its children. Be careful my friend, these are signs of end times.
This bill even if passed can easily be striked out as unconstitutional. If the Catholic Church and other religions who are against the bill will get a good lawyer, they can win this in court.
Wrong. History doesn’t tell us that. In the Philippines alone, there are executive orders that are unconstitutional, but the issues have just gone with the previous government.
Abortion is unconstitutional according to the real sense of the United States’ Constitution, but since Roe v Wade, did the protesters win? A big NO. Abortion is still legal, and is actually being promoted by the Obama administration, but ironically, it is unconstitutional.
The Catholic Church have the best lawyers, but it does not mean they will win inside the court once this proposal became a law. It’s not as simple as you think it is.
The Church is the mystical body of Christ, he already revealed that the Catholic is its bride. The only one opposing the evil. Many of Gods children support now the enemy. “My Church will be persecuted to a degree never seen before as evil has reached a height that has never before been seen on Earth. She shall suffer and be persecuted. She has been judged already in this scourging soon to carry the great cross to Her Calvary where she shall be crucified, tormented and mocked, and believed to have died and been destroyed”
Well, interesting post but where in the bible are you basing your statement?
I already told that not are all in the Bible, there are many revelations to saints, visionaries and mystics of our times. There are apparitions of the Blessed Mother Mary. All of these are messages for all of us. Isn’t it that all that writes the Bible are the same? They are people whom God chooses to carry His Divine messages. God continues to intervene on our time today “I will be with you till the end of time”.
The Bible is not the end of God’s messages.
If you know the Bible, you’ll see.
,,i agree with president noy,
cause i know it will help a lot.
our coutry is already in top 12 to the top 15 most populated coutry…
imagine????
there are so many countries in the world,
and were in 12th????
oh come on..
lets support him…
RH Bill is not only the solution to this problem. I would like you to see the common aspect and traditions that Filipinos are usually doing:
(1) “Bahala na siya. Hindi naman ako ang madadamay.”
(2) “Ok lang yun, wala namang nakakita eh.”
(3) Pagtapon sa basura kahit saan habang sumasakay ng jeepney.
(4) “Ok nayan. 3.0 / 75 lang naman ang hiningi ng gobyerno natin eh”.
(5) “Eto na yung isang daang libong piso. Iboto mo ako.”
I hope you get the point.
Again, this bill is not the only way to control the population in the Philippines. There are many different ways.
Some few suggestions would be:
(1)
Increase the literacy rates of Filipino people (in whatever way) so they can find jobs and get busy to work. In that way, they are not prone to private places where few gets horny and do their stuff there.
(2)
Encourage all young Filipinos to study hard and do their best on their studies so they may be successful in their carrier. Though related to number (1), this suggestion pertains to more Qualitive education and not just Quantitative education (where you graduated college and learned less). It is obvious that money is the problem. Their are many good ways to gain financial aid though with the help of God.
(3)
Encourage everyone to be religious not in words but in deeds, like visiting orphanages and the like.
If you don’t get why the points above will solve the population in the Philippines, then you have a problem.
God bless us all.
The church is the bride of Christ.I personally submit to Her wisdom in terms of moral teachings.Overpopulation? Well,blame it to God if you dare.Gagawa Siya ng mundo only to be overpopulated? Congrats nga sa mga author ng RH bill.Mga theologians na pala sila. Why dont you focus on solving corruption? Diyan lang mahihirapan na kayo. About comprehensive land reform? Ang daming farmers na walang lupa, diyan kayo mag focus.
g
Maybe the bride isn’t THE ROMAN CATHOLIC church.
Maybe you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Moreover, the RH bill isn’t forcing anyone.
It’s giving us a choice!
Overpopulation is a serious issue.
Maybe you should take into account that it’s about our fellow citizens!
If I apply the same philosophy, then “Gagawa ba siya ng mundo only to have people kill each other and die of global warming!”
Faith is useless without action.
They can deal with those fucked up officials later.
You have no idea how many are dying of hunger as you sit on your computer taking out ignorant claims about YOUR faith.
Maybe there’s something wrong with it!
The Catholic Church is the only one standing and opposing against the attack of His enemy, SATAN! While most of his children embraced and joined the enemy in persecuting her (the Church).
“My Church will be persecuted to a degree never seen before as evil has reached a height that has never before been seen on Earth. She shall suffer and be persecuted. She has been judged already in this scourging soon to carry the great cross to Her Calvary where she shall be crucified, tormented and mocked, and believed to have died and been destroyed”
Its true that Jesus Christ kingdom is not of this world. Satan’s claim is fulfilling “I am the King of this world” because many are under his control and power.
Or the catholic church is the tool of satan – to bring misery, hunger and poverty to the people?
Study yourself if you are not being used by Satan in your judgment. The demons are applauding with your statement. Please ask the Holy Spirit for the gifts of discernment.
Many has already presented to you the evilness of this bill and it seems that you do not are not open. Do you really pray and asks God for enlightenment of this issue. How sincere and whole-hearted is that then? or you not? Many eyes do not see and ears that really can’t hear. Its simply, when good and bad are mixed, then, it is not good!! Its from Satan who mixed things to confuse. He hides my friend. Asks God for gifts to discover Him.
–> The word bride here is only a symbol or a figurative word. Don’t take this literary.
–> The RH bill indeed is not forcing anyone. But it is influencing everyone of what is actually wrong — that is pre-marital sex, fornication, etc.
How sure are you on this statement? God is there. Satan is also there. God has giving us free will because we are humans. Satan has took advantage of that free will and that is how many people accept the invitation of Satan.
–> Many have died of hunger because they are too lazy to work, to study, and to earn money. See those who are poor and successful people. Many have asked God for help yet they do no work. That is also one of the problem.
Education for responsible parenthood is not new. I agree with what others said that the access to contraceptives has been available a long long time ago in any convenient stores. Even ligation and vasectomy is already being practiced in our country even before I was born. 15 years ago, teenagers including me were involved in natural family planning supported by the church every week educating parents and teens for responsible parenthood. I use that information now that I am married. Gladly my husband & I have the same convictions. We practice abstinence and sacrifice so its something that can be done in reality. The RH bill have good points in educating couples and teens but like what I said this has been an old practice in schools and our barangays. For some of you who doesn’t know, the U.S. which was specifically detailed by H.Clinton has a budget for helping the 3rd world finance the family planning education with promotion of contraception as one of the means and that I believe what our government is after. The “budget” overflowing from the USofA which lights up a question: who will really benefit? maybe a small portion of people but the majority of the budget will be in the hands of corrupt animals i mean officials. So, going back to RH bill, is this really necessary in our society? or just another for wealth source of our poor and hungry politicians.
if o were president noynoy ” sige hinde ko a approbahan ang bill na to, pagbibigyan ko ang mga simbahan, lalo na ang katoliko…… pero isa lang hehelengen ko, dapat WALANG BAYAD ANG PAGPAPABINYAG, PAGPAPAKASAL, PA MESA SA PATAY” …
yes life is for everyone… but what kind of life is it ba? katolad ba ng life ko na halos isang beses lang kumaen isang araw, katolad ba ng life ng mga pamangkin ko na hangang ngayon wala pang mga pangalan dahil anf mahal mahal magpabenyag?
sa mga katolad kong maherap, let’s get REAL sa mga may kaya… sige maging MAKADIYOS kayo. ng papunta kayo sa langit!!!!
Maaring mahirap ka at walang makain pero walang kinalaman ang Simbahan sa paghihirap mo. Wala ka bang kakayahan magtrabaho? Kung meron, ang tanong e bakit wala ka halos makain? Ang pagbibigay ng kabuhayan ay tungkulin ng pamahalaan. Humingi ka ba ng tulong? At nung wala kang makain, lumapit ka ba sa Simbahan para sabihin ang sitwasyon mo? Tinanggihan ka ba ng iyong Kura? Ang nangangaral ng Ebanghelyo ay may karapatang kumuha ng ikabubuhay niya dito. Yan ang turo ni San Pablo, dalawang libong taon na ang nakakalipas, at mananatili yan totoo hanggat may mundo.
Tungkol sa mga pamangkin mo, civil registrar ang kailangan nila para magkaroon ng pangalan, hindi Simbahan. At kung binyag ang pag-uusapan, hindi binabayaran at hindi mababayaran ang binyag. May facilities na ginagamit sa pagdiriwang ng binyag. Nagbabayad din ng kuryente ang parokya, hindi sila libre sa Meralco. Ngayon, kung hindi mabinyagan ang mga pamangkin mo dahil sa kawalan ng pera, hindi na yun tama. May ginawa na ba ang mga magulang niya? Sinasabi rin sa akin noon na hindi ka pwedeng magpakasal nang P15,000 lang ang pera mo. Isang taon namin pinagtatalunan yan ng mga kamag-anak ko, pero hindi sila nanalo. Nagpakasal ako na P500 lang ang pera ko. Mas mahal pa nagastos sa simpleng handaan. Actually, may kakilala pa nga ako na mag-asawang hindi gumastos ng kahit ano sa Simbahan (hindi mass wedding, sila lang talaga). Akala kasi natin e kilala natin ang hinahatulan natin, pero ang totoo, wala tayong alam dito.
Sige, ipasa halimbawa ang RH Bill, nasan naman ang pondo para sa edukasyon, para sa livelihood, para sa ibang mga pangangailangan ng mamamayan. Gagawin essential medecine ang contraceptives, e ultimo over-the-counter medicine, nauubusan ang mga health center. Papayag ka ba na contraceptive pills ang ibigay sa iyo pag linalagnat ka? Okay lang ba kung pakainin ng gobyerno ng condom ang pamilya pag gutom na gutom na kayo dahil yun lang ang pinagamitan ng pera?
Nararanasan din namin ang hindi kumain, pero hindi kami papayag na samantalahin ng mga ipokritong politiko ang gutom namin para linlangin kami at sabihin ito at iyan ang kailangan namin. Ikabubuhay ang kailangan ng mga Filipino, hindi ikamamatay ng mga bata at mga ina.
— Please be mature enough my dear friend. How can the church sustain the needs of their priest, nuns, etc, when people will not give (or donate) them money? That is the reason why donations are always there on the church. That is the reason why weddings, funerals, baptism needs finance because the priests, nuns, etc also have their own needs like food, etc, excluding their projects.
You should do more hardwork. Ask everyone for help. God bless you.
hindi mahal magpabinyag, magpakasal at magpamisa sa patay, sa totoo lang walang bayad yun, nanghihingi lang ng donasyon ang simbahan of any amount dahil hindi naman makakasurvive ang simbahan kung walang pantustos sa gastusin. uulitin ko, “DONASYON OF ANY AMOUNT” kaya lang nagiging “mahal” yun para sa iba dahil gusto nila enggrande ang lahat, eh puwede ba namang maglagay ang simbahan ng mga dekorasyon at pampaenggrande na hindi nanghihingi ng bayad, ano gagastusin nila para dun sa mga pampaenggrande na gusto niyong iavail? pero kung yung sacramento lang, kasal, binyag, misa sa patay, etc., ang habol n’yo, maibibigay ng simbahan yun ng libre. naintindihan mo na? siguraduhin muna kasi na alam yung sinasabi bago magkomento.
a significant number of catholics support RH Bill 5043, even slightly higher than non-catholics.
First question: have you seen the questionnaire and has it been proven to be not “leading”? Second: is SWS an honest organization without bias on reproductive propaganda? Better ask Kit Tatad. He personally knows the man behind it. Third: are all “Catholics” Catholic? Are you?
To classify this issue by religion is senseless.
Then what does the church propose to do in case the RH bill is left unsigned.
Feed everyone with two loaves and a fish?
Why don’t you guys do a background check on the Catholic church?
It’s full of bullshit.
We will be accountable to God on everything that we do. Do not judge especially our priests and even more the bishops as God will judge you more severely. Jesus said to Gloria Polo, “Who did you think you were making yourself God and judging my anointed? They are human, and the holiness of a priest is built by his community, that prays, loves, and supports him. When a priest sins his community is questioned, not him.” Jesus showed her how the many demons were attached to her when she do it.
Be careful my friend.
It is indeed true that words of Jesus from visionaries and mystics are happening right now “My Church will be persecuted to a degree never seen before as evil has reached a height that has never before been seen on Earth. She shall suffer and be persecuted. She has been judged already in this scourging soon to carry the great cross to Her Calvary where she shall be crucified, tormented and mocked, and believed to have died and been destroyed”
Its true that Jesus Christ kingdom is not of this world. Satan’s claim is fulfilling “I am the King of this world” because many are under his control and power.
How sure are you that THAT “church” is the Catholic church.
Luke 6:43
“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.”
Over the past ten centuries, what kind of fruit have they produced?
Matthew 24: 11-14
“Many false prophets will appear and fool many people; and many people’s love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. But whoever holds out till the end will be delivered.”
DO YOU EVEN READ THE BIBLE??
Ever noticed the Catholic church wants you to hear the gospel only 10 minutes every sunday, SUBJECTIVELY from the priest and NOT READ IT FOR YOURSELF???
THINK
If I show you some verse in the Bible you will not believe even. Because certainly, there are eyes that cannot see and ears that cannot hear.
Besides, the Bible is not the only basis of truth. Many religions based their beliefs only in the Bible, but what happen? Because the science of reason, there is a tendency to constitute human intelligence alone as the criterion of truth. With reasoning give birth to errors thru their own interpretations. As a result there are many Christian denominations and sects that are all professing their own truth. These errors are being propagated by false teachers, by renowned theologians who no longer teaching the truths of the Gospel, but pernicious heresies based on error and human reasoning. It is because of these teachings, the faith is lost and great apostasy is spread anywhere. Truly many false prophets will appear and don’t be deceived.
Catholics has Sacred Scriptures “Bible” and “Sacred Traditions”. Aside from this, heaven continue to send messages for each of us appropriate for our times. There are saints, mystics, visionaries, the apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary, each giving divine messages and guidance for us. Remember the Bible are Good News or messages made by people God chose, the same as these people being used by God to send his messages appropriate for our time. Would you mean to say, God’s messages stopped when the Bible was made? Does heaven doesn’t intervene and help us now? No. As Jesus said “I will be with you, til the end of time”.
It is true many will be lost as there are already Catholic which are not really Catholic as Satan tries to destroy the Church. Even some priests may have been lost as you read in some newspapers. But does it mean that because of these peoples the truth will be changed? NO.
You may go on with what you believe and even encourage people to believe in you. You cant argue about the truth, you can distract yourself and others from the truth. But the truth still remains. When you die you will know the truth, as the truth is inescapable.
We are out of topic now, you really try to discredit the Catholic Church. It’s the only one standing right now opposing the evil while many Gods children join and embrace the enemy in attacking its Church.
“Besides, the Bible is not the only basis of truth. ”
what else is? THE POPE??
That man up there worshiped as a living holy being??
Who’s the false prophet then?
You cannot say that!
Be careful with your words.
The bible is the word of God.
It may not contain every truth in the world, but as a Christian, your values should and always be in contrast with the bible.
WE ARE NOT OUT OF TOPIC.
The root of this confusion is caused by blurry and unstudied faith!
TEST YOUR FAITH
(P.S. I’m not testing God, but our faith)
I am a devoted Christian and I’ve been challenging my faith my whole life.
You should ask questions!
You can’t just take things and let it be.
That’s why God gave us brains,
so that we can think.
True faith always has every question answered clearly and doesn’t leave you questioning.
i.e.,
“Why do we pray to saints when we can pray to God?”
Mary didn’t go to heaven alive.
The church “assumed” she did.
That’s why it’s called the “Assumption of Mary”.
Mary didn’t die a virgin.
She obviously had sex with her spouse after giving birth to Jesus because he had brothers.
I “assume” that you still understand the word respect, and that you can recognize that people join this thread because the issue is about reproductive health bill. I hope you are not “selfish enough” to just ignore that. It would be appreciated if you will not continue to post off-topic comments and make this thread unnecessarily long. You can show off your knowledge (whether they are right or wrong) in another forum where Catholic dogmas are the topic. I hope that I am not wrong with my first assumption.
Seek and you will find! Are you really seeking for truth, or just finding faults? others who have questions about Catholic belief too often make the mistake of going to the wrong place for the answers. Too often books written by religious incompetents are consulted. The result is incomplete and distorted information. The right place to go for information about Catholic belief — in fact the only place to go for complete and authoritative information — is the Catholic Church herself. As any detective will tell you, no investigation is quite so complete as an on-the-spot investigation.
“How sure are you that THAT “church” is the Catholic church.”
It’s for you to find out. He who seeks finds. Are you seeking the truth within the Catholic Church or you’re just trying to find faults? Does the holiness of the Church make its members evil, or it is the obstinacy of the people that makes them more evil? If you want to prove that there is another church that is the real Church of Christ, then point it for us that we might be saved with you.
“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.”
Are we not all sinners? Isn’t sin a bad fruit? Are you without sin? If you have, do you imply that your church is not the true Church? If you claim to be without sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you. Is Jesus not the Christ because he bore Judas? What I could say is that you don’t understand the passage that you are using.
“Over the past ten centuries, what kind of fruit have they produced?”
Saints. Recognition of innate human dignity and human rights. Hope. Courage. Meaning. Of course you are not seeing it because your eyes are for judging others. Are those eyes the fruit of your church?
“Many false prophets will appear and fool many people; and many people’s love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. But whoever holds out till the end will be delivered.”
The Catholic Church is not “many”; it is the one where many have appeared. Let me tell you who are many. How many Christian denominations has the world have? Many — very many! Although I am not saying that these denominations are false prophets, that is how you apply the word “many”. It can’t be possible or applicable to the one Catholic Church.
“Ever noticed the Catholic church wants you to hear the gospel only 10 minutes every sunday, SUBJECTIVELY from the priest and NOT READ IT FOR YOURSELF???”
That is a show of ignorance. Haven’t you noticed that the Church offers the Sacrifice everyday? Doesn’t it mean a proclamation of Gospel everyday? Do you hear the Gospel everyday inside your church? Better read the Dei Verbum then tell us again that the Church does not want its member to read the Bible frequently.
And what does the word “subjectively” mean here? That the letters are changing when somebody else (the priest) read it for you? Is it not right that the pastor reads for the assembly? Or you’re suggesting that the assembly go at the front and read the Scripture one by one? Besides, the part of the priest in the readings of the passages is only the Gospel (ie. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John), everything else is read by laymen.
Think.
@jur
malamang hindi ka katoliko, pero may tanong ako sa’yo na hindi natin kukunin sa bible ang sagot, kindi sa ating mga sariling utak lang, kung meron man, I’m sure lahat meron nun, hindi lang lahat gumagamit. ok, lets begin, pag ang members ng iba’t ibang relihiyon tinanong mo kung saan nanggaling yung mga aral tungkol sa Diyos na nalalaman niya ngayon, siyempre ang itu2ro nya eh ang magulang nya o ang mga pastor ng relihiyon nila, at pag tinanong mo yung mga pastor na yun, ang isasagot nila eh sa bibliya o sa founder ng relihiyon nila, sino2x nga ba ang founder ng iba’t ibang relihiyon, c Felix Manalo, c Ely Soriano, etc., in short puro tao lang sila, eh ang katoliko, sino nagpasimula nito, sabihin nating ang mga pari, monsinyor, obispo, cardinal, santo papa, saan ba sila lahat nagmula, eh di sa unang santo papa na nagtatag nang katolikong simbahan, at sino ‘to, c St. Peter o San Pedro, at sino siya, siya ay apostol ng ating Panginoong Hesu’ Kristo, at hindi ko lang matandaan ang verse pero si Hesus mismo ang ngtatag ng katolikong simbahan through St. Peter, dahil sinabi Niya kay Peter, hindi man eksakto pero yan ung nilalaman nun “Peter, you are the rock, on which I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH” at si Hesus ang Panginoon, Siya ang Diyos… pag-isipan nyo ngayon kung sino ang FALSE PROPHET na binanggit sa bibliya, hmmm, hindi kaya yung mga pangkaraniwang tao na founder ng iba’t ibang relihiyon ngayon?hmmmm nagtatanong lang…
Quote me a verse in the Bible that explicitly say or imply that using contraceptives or preventing the production of eggs and preventing the passage of sperm to the womb is a form of abortion!
Hundreds of years ago Galileo was subjected to inquisition (or imprisonment) by the roman catholic church because he insisted that the world is round and the planets moves around the sun. The church insisted the opposite.
Dont ask such things like that. Those are silly questions of people who wants to justify their wrong doings by asking where it is in the bible. I ask you, does the word “Bible” in the bible? Does the word “Holy Trinity” in the bible? Does the word “Christmas” in the bible? But still the bible is word of God written by evangelists inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Not are all in the Bible which is Sacred Scripture. In Catholics, there is also a so called Sacred Traditions. These are teachings by words and mouth hand over by apostles to peoples at that time down to popes, bishops, priests and to us.
2 Thes 2:15
“Then, brothers and sisters, firmly hold on to the traditions we taught you either when we spoke to you or in our letter”
The Church has its authority as given to St Peter, the first Pope.
“Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona . . . Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church.” (Matt. 16:17-19).
“There shall be one fold and one shepherd.” (John 10:16).
“Feed my lambs . . . feed my sheep.” (John 21:15-17).
Apostles understood that Peter had authority from Christ to lead the Church, for they gave him the presiding place every time they assembled in council (Acts 1:15, 5:1-10), and they placed his name first every time they listed the names of the Apostles. (Matt. 10:2, Mark 3:16, Luke 6:13-14, Acts 1:13).
Also, most Saints have been blessed with Divine Revelations which are messages from Jesus, Mama Mary and other saints. There are also mystics and visionaries favored with messages from God.
On of revelations says that the Catholic Church will be persecuted which is happening right now, “My Church will be persecuted to a degree never seen before as evil has reached a height that has never before been seen on Earth. She shall suffer and be persecuted. She has been judged already in this scourging soon to carry the great cross to Her Calvary where she shall be crucified, tormented and mocked, and believed to have died and been destroyed”
Its true that Jesus Christ kingdom is not of this world. Satan’s claim is fulfilling “I am the King of this world” because many are under his control and power.
Well its really hard to debate to someone who is brainwashed and closed minded.
The bible did not mention anything that says Peter was the first pope….
The book of revelation did not specifically mention Roman Catholic Church. However, it talks about a WOMAN (Rev 17) (most often used figuratively in the bible as a church) that will be judge at the end times for being “adulterous”, being influential to world leaders and said to be “drunk” with the BLOOD OF THE SAINTS. WELL WHO COULD BE THIS CHURCH? A WOMAN IS USED CONSISTENTLY IN THE BIBLE TO REPRESENT A CHURCH.INTERESTINGLY, THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH KILLED MILLIONS DURING THE INQUISITION PERIOD AND MOST OF THEM ARE REFORMIST OR PROTESTANT OR EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS. However, your church called them heretics if not witch.
You have to research your Church history my friend.
Well good-luck to your unbiblical tradition. If you really want to hold on to your “sacred tradition” well you should throw away your science book and you should continue to believe that the WORLD IS FLAT AND EARTH IS THE CENTER OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM cause this is part of your “sacred tradition”
This is the evilness of Satan. He used also the Bible to destroy us! What is happening now is that there are a lot or Christian denominations professing they are the truth.
That’s why heaven intervenes to us, giving us guidance appropriate for our times. They send heavenly messages to Saints, to visionaries, to mystics. The Blessed Virgin Mary thru his apparitions reveals many things. She is the one that said the Catholic is the Church of Christ. You will see right now, as it is the only one opposing the very evil of this RH bill.
Please read this messages of Mama Mary:
“But now, there is a spread abroad the most dangerous tendency of wanting to penetrate to understand everything – even mysteries – to such a point that only that part of the truth can be accepted which can be understood by human intelligence. There is a desire to unveil the mystery of God.”
“These truths are unchangeable, as the very truth of God is unchangeable. Many of these form part of real mysteries in the strict sense of the word, because they are not and never can be understand by human intelligence.”
“Through the philosophers who begin to give exclusively value to science and to reason, there is a tendency to constitute human intelligence alone as the sole criterion for truth. Then there comes the birth of great philosophical errors which continue through centuries down to your days. The exaggerated importance given to reason as exclusive criterion for truth leads to the destruction of faith.”
“These errors are being propagated by false teachers, by renowned theologians who no longer teaching the truths of the Gospel, but pernicious heresies based on error and human reasoning. It is because of these teachings, the faith is lost and great apostasy is spread anywhere.”
“Thus, the truth is being corrupted with errors. Error is being spread in a most dangerous way, namely as a new and modern way of understanding the truth, and it ends by subverting the very truths which are the foundation of the Catholic faith.”
“They are not denied openly, but they are accepted in such an equivocal way that the doctrine is seriously compromised by error in an unprecedented manner.”
“As a result, talk and discussion go on and on; but there is no longer any belief, and the darkness of errors spread.”
Surely a church that is responsible for the murder and torture of millions of individuals is not the real church.
Be careful not to accuse and judge. It said that we should not be judged for we are weak, only Jesus has the right to do it. Do not also say bad and nonsense words to your fellow being, be careful as it is a sin. Be careful when conversing with others, be careful with the words we used. We will held accountable for each of these.
Judging and stating what is obvious are two different thing…
It’s obvious that Mary of Magdala was a prostitute and her accuser were just stating the obvious (she was even caught in the act), does that mean they did not judge her?
The so-called bloody Inquisitions, which were initiated by the civil governments of France and Spain for the purpose of ferreting out Moslems and Jews who were causing social havoc by posing as faithful Catholic citizens — even as priests and bishops — were indeed approved by the Church. (Non-Catholics who admitted they were non-Catholics were left alone by the Inquisition.) And the vast majority of those questioned by the Inquisition were completely cleared. Nevertheless, the popes roundly condemned the proceedings when they saw justice giving way to cruel abuses, and it was this insistent condemnation by the popes which finally put an end to the Inquisitions
You are wrong. It was factual that the “holy” inquisition was orchestrated by the Roman catholic church itself. Even the late Pope John Paul II formally and publicly apologize for the crime commited by the roman catholic church in the inquisition.
REad it for your self: http://www.bibletoday.com/archive/popeapology.htm
http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m004rpInquisition_Jan04.htm
http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0003/12/sm.06.html
Urak, read the whole Genesis 38.
Here’s some of its content:
“Then Judah said to Onan, “Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so he put him to death also. ”
What does it mean, Onan simply spilled his semen on the ground not to produce offspring. Then, it is already wicked in the eyes of the Lord. Withdrawal, masturbation is a sin already so as the same as contraception. You counter God’s purpose of sex!
what?
I was expecting that this passage will pop up anytime. Not so clever though, you are so literal in your logic. You miss the whole point of the story. In the ancient time, it was their practice to take their dead brother’s position as a husband to continue his bloodline and to take care of the widows. The whole point of the “bad action” is about SWINDLING, DISOBEDIENCE and DECEIT. However, I agree with you that masturbation is wrong in the sight of God but the spilling of semen is just a consequence action of the “sin in the mind”, fornication or adultery in the mind is considered fornication and adultery is the standard of God.
You think as if sex if only for procreation…but you are wrong. God is not kill-joy. He design sex not just for procreation but also for comfort, intimacy and pleasure in marriage. Did you not wonder why is it that God design the woman womb to be fertile only for 2-3 days in a month? What will you do with the 27-28 days? Spill/Waste the semen in the womb? — and thats according to your logic.
Ponder on the following verses:
Procreation
Gen. 1:28, “And God blessed them; and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.'”
Intimacy
Song 1:13, “My beloved is to me a pouch of myrrh which lies all night between my breasts.”
Song 2:3, “Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest, so is my beloved among the young men. In his shade I took great delight and sat down, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.”
Song 2:6, “Let his left hand be under my head and his right hand embrace me.”
Song 4:5, “Your two breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle, which feed among the lilies.”
Companionship
Song 3:1, “On my bed night after night I sought him whom my soul loves…”
Physical Pleasure
Song 1:2, “May he kiss me with the kisses of his mouth! For your love is better than wine.”
Here:
http://www.maryourmother.net/Life.html
That is the reason why the Church is against the RH bill. Life begins at conception and it is there in the Bible. So during the time when the sperm cell and the egg cell meets, life is now formed! However, the natural tendency of the flow of sperm cell to the egg cell is being distorted by the contraceptives. That is the main reason why contraceptives is considered as a MURDER to the new-born life. Again, it is because life begins at conception and not when the fetus is made visible to the womb.
Ignorance promotes stupidity!
I agree.
It is told by the Blessed Mother in her apparitions, that “sins of the flesh” is the most reason why many people goes to hell. Many abuse their sexuality today; contraceptives, masturbation, infidelity with their partner, premarital sex and” live-in and sex” without marriage. What seems to be good or fine for human maybe a sin to God in his infinite goodness. In the Bible, Jesus told us that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. All of these are sin which we think are normal during this time.
Don’t be fooled by Satan. We people, should always pray and ask for divine discernment and wisdom to know what is good and evil. How often do we pray, 5 mins in morning and 5 mins in evening? 10 minutes out of 24 hours God gave you? Do you think its worth for Him. We should always pray to God… pray pray and pray so that we will not fall against the snares and temptations of the evil. Satan tends to confuse us, by mixing good with bad, truths with lies and he hides so that we may not know.
A CATHOLIC REACTION TO HOUSE BILL # 5043
(“Reproductive Health and Population Development Act of 2008”
or more popularly known as the “RH Bill”)
The heat is on again as the Mass Media (television networks, radio stations and newspapers in particular) highlight the conflicting stands of those who support and those who are against the approval and signing into law of House Bill # 5043 – the “Reproductive Health and Population Development Act of 2008” (or simply the “RH Bill”). Among those who belong to the second group are the members of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines (CBCP), proponents of the Catholic Church, and devout Catholics. But what is it exactly that triggers their opposition? What provisions present in the proposed House Bill do they find unacceptable?
Let us begin with some important clarifications. First, the proposed House Bill is not imposed on every Filipino citizen as a mandatory practice to be put into practice. This means that it simply legalizes the use of certain reproductive methods for those who would want to avail of them and sanctions those health care service providers who would refuse to extend the necessary means or offer the corresponding services to those who would ask for them (cfr. RH Section 21). The Bill in no way forces anyone, for example, to use artificial contraceptives when he or she does not want to. The RH Bill in many places respects freedom of choice and of conscience of single individuals. For example, in Section 3.g it states: “the number and spacing of children are left to the sound judgment of parents and couples based on their personal conviction and religious beliefs”. In Section 21.a.5 (concerning prohibited acts for health care service providers) we read that they are not allowed to “refuse to extend reproductive health care services and information on account of the patient’s civil status, gender or sexual orientation, age, religion, personal circumstances, and nature of work, provided that all conscientious objections of health care service providers based on religious grounds shall be respected …”
Second, although the hub of the heated debates nowadays focus more on the question of the use of different methods – either natural or artificial (or “modern”, as the RH prefers to call such methods: cfr. Sections 3.a; 11; 12.f) – to prevent “unwanted, unplanned and mistimed pregnancies” (Section 5.k and 12.f) or “reduce incidence of teenage pregnancies” (Section 4.r), the proposed Bill actually covers many other questions directly and indirectly related to health, like gender equality (Sections 2.c; 3.i; 4.e), infant mortality and maternal death (Sections 4.r; 4.m), violence against women (Section 4.g.7), women empowerment (Section 2.c), discrimination against women (Section 17), certain gynecological conditions (Section 4.g.9), etc. Here lies one of the difficulties in approving or signing the proposed Bill in toto (although Section 25 states that “if any part, section or provision of this Act is held invalid or unconstitutional, other provisions not affected thereby shall remain in full force and effect”). The difficulty at this point concerns not only the validity or the invalidity or the constitutionality or not of some provisions or parts of the proposed Bill, but what one’s conscience or religious conviction dictates. Will a legislator approve a House Bill even when a part of it is against the dictates of his conscience or the religious convictions of enlightened (not ignorant) Catholics?
Third, although some provisions of the Bill are well acceptable to the Catholic Church insofar as they are in accord or, at least, do not violate her teachings about faith and morals (like the Philippine government’s stand against abortion: cfr. Sections 3.m and 5.f.5), its proposals concerning the use of “modern” methods of family planning openly go against the Church’s magisterium, for example, where it speaks of “hospital-based” family planning techniques like tubal ligation, vasectomy and IUD (intrauterine device) insertion (Section 5.i) or of contraceptives (Section 10). The Catholic Church’s stand on the use of artificial methods has been clearly defined (cfr. Catechism of the Catholic Church or CCC § 2370). She also believes that states or governments are not authorized to propose or implement means contrary to the natural law (CCC § 2372) and remains steadfast in her position that the best way through which states or governments can intervene to orient the demography of the population is by means of objective and respectful information or education (CCC § 2372).
Both the proposed House Bill and the Catholic Church agree on many points, like on the importance of sexual education and value formation (RH Section 12), on forming attitudes and beliefs about sex (Sections 4.h; 12.c), on responsible sexuality (Section 12.i), on the upliftment of the quality of life of the people, particularly the poor, the needy and the marginalized (Section 3.j), on gender equality and reduction of inequality between the sexes (Sections 4.f; 4.h; 4.p), on the proscription of abortion (Sections 3.m; 5.f.5; 12.d), and so forth – all geared towards the improvement of the quality of life of the people, particularly through “reduction of inequality and eradication of widespread poverty” (Section 4.p) and providing health services. But they clearly disagree on some concrete steps to be taken to reach their common goal.
Finally, it has become a popular outcry, even on the part of some “modernist” Catholics, to demand for a separation between the Church and the State, to the effect that – they claim – the former should not interfere with the affairs of the latter. Is this the result of a well thought-out conviction or simply an outcry of convenience? It is true that there is such a thing as separation of ecclesiastical and government civil powers, but we must remember that both Church and State deal and are concerned with the well-being of one and the same subject: the human person. And where his fundamental rights or his dignity are threatened by any worldly power, authority, organization, group, etc., by one means or another, both Church and State must intervene and, if necessary, enter into a dialogue. Both have the right to voice out their stand and principles although they must remain, as much as possible, each one within its own realm or area of competence. Unfortunately, since both are concerned with one and the same subject, conflicts and tensions inevitably arise, for we really cannot separate man’s material and spiritual needs one from the other. One always has a repercussion on the other for we are neither pure spirits nor physical bodies. The Catholic Church is expressing her stand on the present issue, which goes well beyond the question of physical or material health care. It rather touches on fundamental human rights, on religious convictions, and conscience. Each Filipino citizen has, indeed, the right to take a stand on the proposed House Bill # 5043, irrespective of their faith or religious affiliation (if one has any). Each man has the right to voice his opinion and that is precisely what the proponents of the Catholic Church are doing, and no one has the right to silence others when these do not agree with what he or she personally believes. The ultimate battle ground is one’s own conscience, but let it be a well-formed and enlightened one, understanding the stands of both the Church and the State, the reasons behind their oftentimes conflicting positions, and – as Catholics – taking into consideration what the Church has to say about questions of faith and morals. Let decisions be taken not just on the ground of convenience and purely personal likes and dislikes, but on the basis of solid convictions and profound principles.
You are missing something here.
You said: “…the proposed House Bill is not imposed on every Filipino citizen as a mandatory practice to be put into practice.”
I say: Contraception is not mandatory and it will not be. That’s off the question. It’s not even worth a mention. What you have missed is that tax is mandatory and this bill will be getting our tax money to buy contraceptives. In that sense, are we not obliged to do things that are against our will?
You said: “…it simply legalizes the use of certain reproductive methods for those who would want to avail of them and sanctions those health care service providers who would refuse to extend the necessary means or offer the corresponding services to those who would ask for them (cfr. RH Section 21).”
I say: First of, we are talking about contraceptive methods, not reproductive methods. Second, the bill does not intend to legalize the use of contraceptives; it is not illegal in the first place. What it wants is to allocate a budget for contraceptive drugs, devices, and services. The bill is all about budgets, by the way. Third, section 21 does not concern only the health care providers but anyone who will go against the intentions of the bill. When they say anyone, they mean anyone.
You said: “The RH Bill in many places respects freedom of choice and of conscience of single individuals.”
I say: You are implying that the bill respects freedom of choice and of conscience in some aspects but not in every aspect, and that you are okay with it. So, disrespect is sometimes acceptable? Let me inform you that the proponents of this bill does not know the meaning of respect (as you should have noticed), so they don’t know how to show it in any way. When they drafted the proposal, what they have in mind is money and not respect.
You said: “…the number and spacing of children are left to the sound judgment of parents and couples based on their personal conviction and religious beliefs.”
I say: The bill explicitly said that, “In the elementary level, reproductive health education shall focus, among others, on values formation,” and that “Reproductive Health Education curriculum shall cover (c.) Attitudes, beliefs and values on sexual development, sexual behavior and sexual health.” Values education and religious beliefs go hand in hand. You cannot accept both “contraceptive values” from the school and Catholic morality from the Church and from the parents. Your quote and my quote both came from the same document which hypocritically contradicts itself and deliberately deceives the reader.
You have quoted: “…provided that all conscientious objections of health care service providers based on religious grounds shall be respected.”
I quote: “Provided, further, That the conscientious objector shall immediately refer the person seeking such care and services to another health care service provider…” If you really understand what you are reading, you will see the obvious contradiction of these two adjacent clauses. If you don’t want to cheat because you believe that it is wrong, would you be blameless if you ask somebody else to do it in your stead? Did you say the bill respects conscience?
The bill, as a whole, is nonsense. It tries to disguise its wickedness through the help of some acceptable proposals, which in reality are unnecessary ones. Basically, the proposal can be divided into two parts: evil ideas that must not be passed as a law, and benign ideas (which they hypocritically proposed) that should not be mixed with this bill. The strategy is cunning but unfortunately (or fortunately), the intent is very obvious.
the catholic church disrespects the filipino people when it imposes its beliefs on the whole nation when in fact not all filipinos are catholics. not only that, even catholics overwhelmingly support RH Bill 5043.
the basis for the church’s stand on birth control is the encyclical Humanae Vitae, click here:
Thanks wawam. Urak please read that, so that we may know how evil we are today and opposing God.
It what sense does a family planning program that promotes the use of condoms and pills makes us evil? this is a family planning program meaning it is intended for married couples only.
“this is a family planning program meaning it is intended for married couples only.”
Really?
Read the bill thoroughly so you may understand. Also, read my post #66 (plus minus) so you may be aware of my scrutiny.
It makes us evil because it encourages EVERYONE to use this. Why? Contraceptives will become an Essential Medicine. And many more reasons why.
I said biblical text. Do not give me quotations from popes and other Roman catholic personalities. Because they could be wrong with their interpretations or might be based on traditions which are not biblical.
Biblical passage please!
I told you that not are all in the Bible, how come the Bible tell you on use of condoms and contraceptives when these things doesn’t exist during that time?
Don’t justify the unevilness of this bill by asking verse from the Bible.
Satan seduces many people that if they cannot find any Bible quotes for things, then they are free to do it?
Please tell me, where in the Bible can you find the word “Bible” itself? hmmm..
Now tell me, are all written in the Bible???
Well, if its not in the bible how will you know that its the truth? You see, the problem is if you start wondering outside the bible there will be no common ground cause you will insert tradition and tradition is not all the time correct. When Jesus was incarnated in human form one of His purpose is to show the right way of living for us because our traditions is so mess up. In the new testament, you can often read Jesus rebuking the religious leaders at that time because of their wrong/wicked traditions.
REad the bible my friend so that you will be enligten.
Yes you are correct. Those were the Jews during that time. Observe that in the Bible there are two kinds of religious tradition — human and divine. Observe that when Christ accused the Pharisees He was referring to “precepts of men” (Mark 7:7), to their human traditions. Christ wanted divine tradition preserved and honored because He made it part and parcel of the Christian deposit of faith — as the Apostle Paul affirmed: “Stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.” (2 Thess. 2:14. Also see 2 Thess. 3:6). This divine tradition to which Paul refers — this revealed truth which was handed down by word rather than by letter — is the tradition upon which, along with Sacred Scripture, the Catholic Church bases her tenets of faith — as the primitive Christian Fathers affirmed. Wrote St. Augustine: “These traditions of the Christian name, therefore, so numerous, so powerful, and most dear, justly keep a believing man in the Catholic Church.” The New Testament itself is a product of Christian tradition. Nowhere in the New Testament is there any mention of a New Testament.
What made you believe that the truth is contained in the Bible in the first place? Did the Book fell from heaven directly to your lap? Isn’t it your tradition that taught you about the Bible? If you don’t have a tradition (a teaching that is passed from generation to generation), you must have seen Jesus yourself. So, again, the first question is where did the Bible take its credentials? I am not questioning the credibility of the Bible, I am questioning your basic reasons for believing that the Bible contains the truth, and the that it contains everything that is true.
Second question is, where in the Bible did you read that the true Church will die or that for more than 1000 years, true Christians will disappear. Is it even possible?
That is why I included the word imply. Not directly stating the word condom or contraception but at least you can show me a verse/passage that clearly supports your claim against the use of such devices.
Where does the sperm end after a condomized intercourse? Does it take its natural course as designed by its architect? Or it dies out inside the condom which was thrown in a garbage bin?
Does the name Onan ring a bell? Which one do you think is more insulting to God: the spilled male seeds on the soil, or the semen that was thrown as a trash?
let us all be against RH-Bill, otherwise sex will be everywhere! or to make it hurtfully, our children will be easily prone to sex to anyone they will like. be it their friends or once again to anyone whom they want to have sex. . .
to P-noy, please do more on fighting corruption, not with this blasphemous RH-Bill.
condoms, pills and IUDs have been in the philippines and have been soldd for decades – do you see sex everywhere now?
Do you not?
Will you not call sexual acts being performed by elementary and high school students “sex everywhere”?
Everywhere does not necessarily mean every corner, every bench, every storefront, or every place you look at. You already know that, I believe I don’t have to explain — I am reminding you, though.
Second truth that you have missed is that contraceptives are still taboo in the country. You won’t see 5 out of 10 teenagers casually buying condoms or pills just like buying a candy; less likely that you can expect them to have sex just anywhere publicly.
humanae vitae is a very controversial encyclical. many catholic theologians have attacked the encyclical. most scholars also view humanae vitae is not being infallible and therefore catholics may not follow its teachings. the philippine catholic church is in very shaky grounds in using this as the basis for their stand on birth control.
this encyclical has been discussed extensively in this blog.
The Catholic Church is 2000 years old; the Church in the Philippines is 488 years old, more or less. It does not base its teaching on sexual morality solely on Humanae Vitae as if sex is a modern invention. It just happened that the encyclical letter particularly and intentionally addresses contraceptive mentality. The Church is already speaking against contraception since almost two millenniums ago. And it’s not surprising, because these so-called modern methods are not really modern as they claim it to be. They may even be older than Christianity.
i am not debating with you. i am merely stating a fact – that humane vitae is the basis for the catholic church’s stand on birth control.
Well then, your “human vitae” is based only on the “opinion” of the pope. The ultimate basis for morality is God’s written words not the pope’s word. You see the pope is just a human being who can commit mistakes. If you research the lives of all previous popes, you will see many of them committed fornications, some even have children – and this is FACTUAL.
The doctrine of Papal Infallibility does not mean the Pope is always right in all his personal teachings. Catholics are quite aware that, despite his great learning, the Pope is very much a human being and therefore liable to commit human error. On some subjects, like sports and manufacturing, his judgment is liable to be very faulty. The doctrine simply means that the Pope is divinely protected from error when, acting in his official capacity as chief shepherd of the Catholic fold, he promulgates a decision which is binding on the conscience of all Catholics throughout the world. In other words, his infallibility is limited to his specialty–the Faith of Jesus Christ.
In order for the Pope to be infallible on a particular statement, however, four conditions must apply: 1) he must be speaking ex cathedra . . . that is, “from the Chair” of Peter, or in other words, officially, as head of the entire Church; 2) the decision must be for the whole Church; 3) it must be on a matter of faith or morals; 4) the Pope must have the intention of making a final decision on a teaching of faith or morals, so that it is to be held by all the faithful. It must be interpretive, not originative; the Pope has no authority to originate new doctrine. He is not the author of revelation — only its guardian and expounder. He has no power to distort a single word of Scripture, or change one iota of divine tradition. His infallibility is limited strictly to the province of doctrinal interpretation, and it is used quite rarely. It is used in order to clarify, to “define,” some point of the ancient Christian tradition. It is the infallibility of which Christ spoke when He said to Peter, the first Pope: “I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven.” (Matt. 16:19). Certainly Christ would not have admonished His followers to “hear the church” (Matt. 18:17) without somehow making certain that what they heard was the truth — without somehow making the teaching magisterium of His Church infallible.
The only source of moral guidance is the word of God – the bible. Good-luck to your traditions and man made “procedures”.
That’s an outright judgmentalism. First of, infallibility and impeccability are two different things. You are answering your wrong argument. Nobody says that a pope cannot commit mistakes. In fact, Peter denied Jesus three times, and he did even swear publicly. Does it take away his being apostle and his knowledge of the unchanging truth?
Actually, the discussion here is already far off the track, and it is because of the consistent attempt to discredit the Catholic Church, while the real issue is objective morality — regardless of whether the Church taught it or not. Good deeds are still good even without the Church’s approval; evil will always be evil even without the Church’s verdict. The Church does not decide which is good; she teaches it.
Yes people commit mistakes that is why we need to go back or based our morals on the bible the Word of God not on any documents written by popes. Popes commit mistakes (Some are even responsible for the death and torture of millions (inquisition), some committed fornications and produce children, e.g., Pope John X, Pope John XII, Pope John XII and many more) just as peter denied Jesus 3 times.
So your basis is floating in the air – no foundation or what so ever.
I just read this beautiful message from other blog:
Ang posisyon ng simbahan ukol sa usaping ito ay tama at nararapat, maaring hindi katanggap tanggap sa marami at hindi praktikal.
Kung sasangayon ang simbahan dito, parang sinabi ng simbahan na OK na pagbigyan ang SEXUAL urges kailangan lang walang consequence.
Ang mensahe ng prinsipyong ito ay maaring ipahayag sa ganitong paraan. Dahil ang natural na consequence ng sex ay ang posibilidad na magkaanak, maaring lunasan ito basta gumamit ng condom o ibang method. Pero malinaw na ang layunin ay PAGBIGYAN ANG SEXUAL URGES na walang consequence. Kung ito ang prinsipyo na gustong ipalulun sa simbahan ng karamihan at kung lulunukin ito ng simbahan dahil sa pressure ng “karamihan” wala nang prinsipyo ang simbahan na sasandalan para komontra sa naglipanang “night spots”, women for hire, at promiscuity. Dahil ang pagsang ayon dito ay nangangahulugan ng pagsangayon sa pagbibigay sa makamundong pagnananasa basta walang consequence(pagbubuntis).
Di na rin dapat kontrahin ang pakikipag sex kung kanikanino dahil pagbibigay daan lamang ito sa “pangangailangan ng katawan” basta gumamit lamang ng condom.
At kung ganitong prinsipyo ang susundin, ok lang ba gumawa ng bagay na makapagpapasaya sa iyo basta walang consequence. Pwede na ba mang rape basta i-drug muna yung babae para walang discomfort sa kanya, walang maalala kung gising yung biktimang babae, dapat siguruhing maliligayahan din siya at importante mag condom para di magbuntis at wag pahuhuli para di makulong. Kung magnanakaw(para masaya) ka, dapat wag kang pahuhuli para di ka makulong (consequence). O kaya i legalize na lang ang pagnanakaw?
Ano kaya ang komunidad na kagigisnan natin kung ganitong prinsipyo ang paiiralin?
Bully? For what reason? And how will it be possible for the State to be bullied?
Look on the other side, instead. Whose conscience are being violated by this bill? Isn’t it the Catholic conscience. Take note, it “violates” the Catholic conscience. Who did you say is being bullied? Now, whose taxes are they planning to use to violate Catholic conscience? Non-Catholics’ taxes? I believe I don’t have to mention that majority of Filipinos are Catholics. So, we are working hard to give the State a large sum of money for it to be able to violate our conscience. Who again is the bully? Last question, did the proponents of the bill followed the Constitution regarding making policies that affects families? A big NO. Did they ask Catholic family associations/organizations if they agree on the proposal? No. They do the opposite, instead. So, whose will, rights, dignity, and freedom are they attacking? Non-Catholics’? Let me here the words again, who is bullying who?
bully tactic #1 : threaten aquino with excommunication even though the bishop knew very well there is no basis for it.
bully tactic #2: play the civil disobedience card reminding aquino of what happened during the People Power Revolution. the only problem with this bully tactic is that a high 71% of catholics support RH Bill 5043.
“bully tactic #1 : threaten aquino with excommunication even though the bishop knew very well there is no basis for it.”
According to the teaching of the Church where the president belongs, “Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person – among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.” Even the abortion and contraceptive industries know very well that the Pill, IUD, and other so-called contraceptives can kill a zygote. These people can change and manipulate medical definitions but the truth remains that at the moment where the spermatozoon penetrates the ovum (fertilization), a human being is conceived, and to create an environment, through these killing agents, that is hostile to the human zygote is nothing less than an abortion. It is not the CBCP who wrote that, “Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.”
“bully tactic #2: play the civil disobedience card reminding aquino of what happened during the People Power Revolution.”
I will ask once again, how will it be possible for the State to be bullied? Can’t it not stand for what it believes is right? Furthermore, civil disobedience in this case is a responsibility of all true Catholics. The bishops and the faithful are saying these words with Peter and the other apostles: “We must obey God rather than men!”
Now, how about the people who the bill is really trying to bully? They just don’t matter?
Please read the news.
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/202368/cbcp-chief-no-threat-of-excommunication-vs-aquino
pakibasa nalang yung
Disclaimer ni Bishop Nereo Odchimar, D.D., CBCP President
nung september 30 pa to na statement
yes of course the bishop denied it a day after he said it. he denied it as he knew his statement at the time he made it was incorrect and had no basis. he made that statement even though he knew it was incorrect precisely to threaten and bully aquino.
“yes of course the bishop denied it a day after he said it.”
Who denied what?
This is part of the interview:
Radyo Veritas: “Pag nag-step in na po si Pres. Aquino ng pamimigay ng contraceptives, automatic po bang ex-communicated na siya ng Catholic Church?
CBCP President: “We have to look into it. We have to exhaust all means to come to a point of confrontation.”
Radyo Veritas: “Possibility po yun, Bishop?”
CBCP President: “It can be a possibility but I do not say na it is a proximate possibility.”
Did the bishop threaten anyone here? Does he need to deny anything? Did he? The bishop was even reluctant to talk about excommunication. He is answering an interview question and not doing a press release.
Which of the actual statements has attempted to bully the president?
The most effective method is abstinence, which the Church teaches consistently even before we were born. If you do not want to have children, don’t have sex. Difficult? That’s because you believe that sex is an ESSENTIAL need like food and water. But the truth is, you can live a long life without having sex. Sex, though is needed by humanity for the continuity of its survival.
Read Genesis 38. Here’s some of its content:
“Then Judah said to Onan, “Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so he put him to death also. ”
What does it mean, Onan simply spilled his semen on the ground not to produce offspring. Then, it is already wicked in the eyes of the Lord. Withdrawal, masturbation is a sin already so as the same as contraception. You counter God’s purpose of sex!
@ kung sino ka man
hindi porke 5 pharagraph na english tungkol sa abortion ang kayang mong isulat eh tama ka na, mayaman ka kasi nakapagaral ka, nakakapagpost sa mga blog at articles sa net ng ingles, pero paano naman yung mga kababayan natin na ni kuryente at tubig wala? problema pa pagkain sa sangkatutak na anak, naiintindihan mo ba sila? ang mga paring katoliko may problema ba sila sa pera? madami ba silang anak? o naranasan na ba nila makipag sex? kontrang kontra sa gobyerno, pero sila mismo hindi naiintindihan ang mga kababayan natin na pahirapan na kumain ng isang beses isang araw, anu bang alam nila sa isang maganak na may limang myembro na nagrrugby para malimutan lang ang kanilang gutom, nakakatakot sila lapitan pero pag iyong pinagmasdan eh wala lang sila pambili ng makakain na sapat sa laki ng pamilya nila, kaya bang pigilan to ng simbahang katoliko? kapag ba sinermonan nila ang mga kababayan natin eh mabubusog na sila? anung magagawa mo bilang isang mamamayan? lumapit at bigyan ng limos ang mga taong ito? kaya mo ba sila payamanin sa halagang bente pesos na binigay mo? hindi diba? ito ang panahon para ipaubaya natin ang ating mga kababayan at bawat isa sa gobyerno, this is the time para tanggapin natin na ang relihiyon ay di sagot sa kahirapan at patuloy ng pagdami ng populasyon, be realistic! ang pinakamabuti mong gawin ay IPAGDASAL ANG BANSANG PILIPINAS sa Panginoon na nawa ay gabayan ang mga namumuno sa ating gobyerno. HUWAG natin iasa sa mga pari at kung sinumang obispo na kumokontra, tao lang sila, nagkakamali gaya ng gobyerno ng Pilipinas
@pututuy
Are you suggesting that the children, lined up along the road inhaling who-knows-what, were better off not being brought into this world? Spare them the cruelty? Are there no other means to address this poverty without resorting to contraception?
Ang RH bill ay punong punong ng magagandang salita tulad ng “Freedom of informed choice”, “Protection and promotion of gender equality”, and etc… and I am pretty sure that the church is not against these. Ngunit may mga di katangi-tanging bahagi na nakatago sa RH bill na ito.
Sigurado akong kaya mo rin mag back-read since nakapag post ka naman. Paki search ang mga ito na i-pinost ni “Neigyl R. Noval”. Dun mo makikita ang ilang dikanais-nais na pilit itinatago sa mahalimuyak na salita.
Tama ka, ang tao ay nagkakamali. Kaya kelangan nga nating ipagdasal di lamang ang Pilipinas kundi ang lahat ng mga PAMILYA sa buong mundo na laging punteryang sirain ng demonyo.
mr. pututoy your very subjective with your comments be objective … ang layo na ng napuntahan mo nawawala ka tpos andun ka na naman …
I would like to share the following conversation. I think it is worth sharing.
(From a friend’s Facebook status): “RH Bill should not be passed because it will be a useless law. Why? Coz it
will only be use as a corruption tool for the gov’t officials. But if
the DOH needs “beating” just to make an action, RH Bill should be made
into law. Shame on them..”
COMMENT: “there is no such thing as useless law, just useless law enforcers.”
REPLY: “hmm..it will be a useless law kasi the subject itself doesn’t need a law. Kahit ang DOH, kyang magpalabas ng kahit isang Memorandum to enforce the same even without a law. May mga National Issue kasi na hindi mo na kailangan ng batas to enforce it. Ang ikinakaba ko dito ay bka gawin itong tool ng mga corrupt officials to cover up their bad deeds..”
“bigyan kita ng example ng useless law- the anti-smoking law enforce to PUV(jeepneys, fx, bus, etc) Why useless?? pinagbbwal nila ang paninigarilyo sa loob ng jeep, but the amount of smoke from other vehicles caused greater harm than the smoke of the cigarette itself. Totally useless..”
COMMENT: “it’s not useless kung EFFECTIVE ang law enforcers. kaya nga may anti-smoke belching campaign e, para HINDI useless ang anti-smoking law. nasa pagpapatupad lang yan. my point is, kung ang mga tao ay marunong sumunod at magpasunod, ang mga batas ay hindi maisasapagwalang bahala.”
REPLY: “hmm..generally, ang pagiging effective ng batas ay hndi dpt iasa lng sa mga “law enforcements”, kundi dpt ding ipagkatiwla sa pagiging disiplinado ng mga tao. On the other hand, RH bill is a preventive law, and the nature of RH bill is the …enforcement of moral responsibility of the public to the state. At pg cnbi mong moral responsibility, gawin man ng isang tao un o hndi, wlang makukulong or wlang mggwa ang gov’t kng hndi man niya gwn un. Now, my main point is that, why do u need to pass a law that concerns moral responsibility, that in the future, will be useless at tanging gov’t officials lng ang nakikinabang.”
COMMENT: “it’s not all about moral responsibility of the public to state BUT ALSO the responsibility of the state to the public. ilan sa kasama sa RH bill ang pagbibigay ng sapat na kaalaman at serbisyo lalo na sa mahihirap, karagdagang sakop ng insurance, karagdagang mga midwives at OB sa mga GHU, at iba pa. at nakalagay din dun na ang hindi pagbigay ng tamang serbisyo sa publiko ng mga nasa kinauukulan ay may penalty. therefore, may pakinabang ang publiko dito lalo na ang mahihirap. hindi ito magiging useless kung ipapatupad nang tama.”
COMMENT2: “why would it be useless? e sa tingin mo ba if people especially those who are uneducated-unlike law enforcers-would be EDUCATED would that be useless? besides the point, tulad nga ng sinabi mo “hindi dapat iasa lang sa law enforcements”, so… why not implement it para lahat tayo may fair share of responsibilities. kung isa kang law enforcer, and even you alone is not abiding by the law, do you think may susunod pa sayo? (i am pertaining to those who are smoking inside public transportation vehicles thing), ang point nila is not to prevent the pollution but DECREASE it.”
REPLY: “Ok mates, may main point here is that, all the things that ***** said in her comment regarding the content of RH Bill, do you think kailangan pa ng batas niyan para lang ma-implement yan?? I don’t think so! Kahit isang Memorandum, kayang …iimplement ng DOH yan without supporting laws and without the threat of violating any other laws. Now, the only think that makes this law very interesting is that, more public officials will use this a “corruption tool” for their bad deeds. That is why I made a conclusion that it is a useless law. Sana nakuha niyo ang point ko..”
“if we’re going to look at the general thinking of implementation of law, RH Bill is very very easy to implement. The word “useless” that I have use is not about its implementation in general but what it will be in the future. Yes, RH …bill will be a useless law, and I stand to it. Why? BECAUSE EVEN WITHOUT THIS LAW, all its content can be implemented by the gov’t. It is also useless for me, because it can be,as I always saying, a tool for corruption in the future. And I do not care about its implementation or whatever. Hope you get it right.”
COMMENT: “kung memorandum lang ang gagawin, mas prone sa corruption kasi within DOH lang yung written note, mas madaling hindi sundin. unlike kung isasabatas, required magpasa ng annual report ang DOH sa presidente. at kung isasabatas, tiyak na may penalty ang kinauukulang hindi susunod. I was just wondering, in what way magagamit ito bilang corruption tool kung isasabatas? can you give examples? at anong other laws ang maaari nitong i-violate, if ever?”
REPLY: “In terms of violating law, wla akung cnsbing ganun. Maaring may overlapping in terms of other law, but wla siyang ma-vaviolate. Hmm..ito nman ang tanong ko syo, how can you say na mas prone sa corruption ang pagpasa ng simple memorandum if the capability and the budget involved are too small and easy to track?? Do you have any proof? Actually, Government institution like DOH has the ability to impose sanction if a certain hospital or person do not follow the same.
Dun nman sa sinasabi mong example, bbigyan kita pro the most basic lang. The DOH will order a 50,000 boxes of condoms for the purpose of distribution as part of the RH Bill(law). The total amount is 5 million pesos. But this one official facilitated the trade and declared the amount as 7 million pesos. one million for that official, one million for the other. And because it is law, malinis tingnan. Basic example lng yn but I know, we know, na meron pang iba kalokohan na mangyayari.”
COMMENT: “may I quote your previous comment: ” …without the threat of violating any other laws.” Anu yong mga “threat” na yon? At how can it (the proposed law) be used as a corruption tool? I am asking this for me to understand your point.”
REPLY: “As I said, “without the threat of violating other laws.” Ibg sbhin, khit anung gwin nila, wlang magsasanction sknlang batas.”
COMMENT: “Hindi ba possible na mangyari din ang sinabi mong example kung gagawin itong isang memorandum?”
REPLY: “Well, the budget will be too small if it will go under a Memorandum process. Small budget means easy to audit, easy to audit means easy to track, easier tracking means easier process to determine if corruption happens. Unlike pag malakihan, maraming hndi magsasalita dahil, nbyran na. Minsan kasi, pang-cover up lng ang batas to make way for a bigger operation of corruption. Mukhang mgnda lng sa paningin pro di maiiwsang may hidden agenda un.”
COMMENT: “if you think that is a good alternative, why not suggest it at PNoy’s blog? It could help.”
REPLY: “ahh..wg na..aksaya lng ng oras. I’ll just leave it to his good judgment. ^^”
COMMENT: “some ideas are worth sharing. mas nanghihinayang ako sa buwis na mawawala kesa sa oras na maaaksaya. :)”
Many has been saying that contraceptives is not a sin and is unbiblical. Well please read this:
Genesis 38:8-10
“Then Judah said to Onan, “Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so he put him to death also.”
Here, Onan spilled his semen on the ground not to produce offspring. And this was considered sin in the eyes of the Lord. He was put to death at that time. This is the same as masturbation, withdrawal and the use of contraceptives which are all sin. Sex has its purpose; do not contradict the will of God on His purpose.
The Lord wants us to multiply. Contraceptives oppose the will of the God. Here are some Bible verses:
Deuteronomy 6:3
“Listen closely, Israel, and be careful to obey. Then all will go well with you, and you will have many children in the land flowing with milk and honey, just as the LORD, the God of your ancestors, promised you”
Genesis 9:7
“And you, be fruitful and multiply, teem on the earth and multiply in it.”
Deuteronomy 8:1
“The whole commandment that I command you today you shall be careful to do, that you may live and multiply, and go in and possess the land that the LORD swore to give to your fathers.
People have been persuaded by the devil that they are entitled to have sex when they choose, rejecting any unwanted life that may result. The enemy may tell you “God is too demanding and unreasonable”. “If we distributed more condoms we would not have disease or the need to abort babies”. “It’s God’s fault because God’s Church is against the use of condoms”.
Sexual intercourse, by its nature and intent is potentially life giving act. This is God’s version. The enemy’s version is that sex can be closed to give life and used for physical pleasure only. Enemy’s version of sex is selfish, emotionally dangerous, and bad for humanity. The enemy offers an answer to this too, and led souls to avoid consequences by offering widespread contraception and abortion. Both men and women are now told that sinful sexual behaviors are allowable and acceptable. God intends that a man and woman enter a blessed union (through marriage) and then share their sexuality with one another. The devil is mocking God because he depicts God’s purpose. He is laughing because many led astray on this sin.
“Then Judah said to Onan, “Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so he put him to death also.”
If you read this passage understanding Jewish tradition.
You should learn that.
When a woman’s husband dies without giving her a male offspring,
She should lie with his brothers until she bears a male son.
Women were nothing without men in Jewish times.
God did not get angry because Onan spilled his semen, but because he was selfish enough not to give his sister-in-law a child.
Sources:
Bible scholar
“God did not get angry because Onan spilled his semen, but because he was selfish enough not to give his sister-in-law a child.”
Did I hear you say the word “selfish”? Isn’t this the same word that we are trying to point out? But you are always missing the point.
Look here:
#53 – “It is also to be feared that the man, growing used to the employment of anti-conceptive practices, may finally engage to conjugal infidelity or may lose respect for the woman and, no longer caring for her physical equilibrium, may come to the point of considering her as a mere instrumental good of selfish achievement of pleasure, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion.”
#68 – “Enemy’s version of sex is selfish, emotionally dangerous, and bad for humanity. The enemy offers an answer to this too, and led souls to avoid consequences by offering widespread contraception and abortion.”
#106 – “You don’t want your wife or daughter or mother being used by other people (multiple in number, if sex outside of marriage is not wrong) for their selfish carnal pleasure.”
All this time, you haven’t had a clue that what we’re really talking about here is selfishness. You have even recourse to exegetes and the point is already right in front your nose, but you still missed it.
so parang ginawang panganakan lang ang babae? napakasama naman pala ng diyos niu tsk tsk tsk
The key word is Deceit and disobedience….dont Just look at the word semen without reading the story.
nagagalit ang simbahan dahil wala na silang karagdagang pagkakitaan. isa na dito ang baptism. maliit na kasi ang birth rate. tapos every birthday pa ng sanggol na yan hanggang lumaki eh nagbibigay ng pera sa simbahan. malaki talaga lugi ng simbahan. wala na silang pera para sa mga chix nila. ito kasing simbahan putak ng putak eh hindi naman nagbabayad ng tax. gumagamit pa kayo ng daan sa gobyerno habang nagprosesyon kayo. kapal ng mukha niyo!
Hinay hinay lang pare.
Dahil nagbabayad din ng tax ang mga Katoliko. (they are also part of the Church)
At isa pa, ang simbahan ay di namimilit na humingi ng mga monetary contributions.
In freedom ang pagbigay ng mga ito.
At ang pagbigay ng mga sakramento ay ang tanging ikinabubuhay ng ating mga kaparian at ito ay serbisyo. Mali bang humingi ng onting kabayaran katumbas ng ibinibigay mo na serbisyo? Madalas pa ngang donasyon ang hinihinging kapalit eh, ibig sabihin na nasa iyo kung magkano ang gusto mo o kaya mong ibayad.
at isa pa, paki basa ang mga komento ng ibang tao kung bakit ganun nalang ang tayo ng simbahan tungkol sa RH bill. Ikaw tong putak ng putak, eh halos off topic ka naman.
Yan din sana isa-suggest ko, medyo nauna ka lang. 😀 Basahin muna kung ano ang mga napag-usapan na para hindi naman mapahiya nang konti. Bago magbigay ng komento, alamin muna ang kwento. Suggestion lang naman.
“At isa pa, ang simbahan ay di namimilit na humingi ng mga monetary contributions.
In freedom ang pagbigay ng mga ito.”
How did you know? You should distinguish between offerings/donations and collection of fees. Hindi ba pag nagpapabinyag may corresponding fee for each ninong/ninong. They church is charging a fee (a set amount) in this sense, not asking for donations (or you call it contribution), for donation is a free will offering–not a charge to be settled in exchange for a service.
“At ang pagbigay ng mga sakramento ay ang tanging ikinabubuhay ng ating mga kaparian at ito ay serbisyo.”
You’re making an absolute statement. What about Paul? He worked as a tent maker while doing his ministry. What about those congregation of priests that run schools. Are they not earning money? And, you will call the school as a form of service? In some sense, maybe, yes. But I don’t think it’s “sacrament” in all its entirety.
When the Catholic Church asks for a fee for baptism or any other “sacrament” for that matter when the historical first century church did not do so, is not this a form of corruption? And, people are talking about corruptions in the government! Whose hands are clean?
hey buddy watch your comment..d2 pa naman sa social networking.pinapakita mo lang talaga na wala kng galang..saang lupalop ka kaya pina doktrina ng parents mo?
tama tama! sa panahon ngayon kinakailangan ng maghinay-hinay sa panganganak dahil lalo tayong maghihirap! over populated na tayo sa pilipinas.. at isa pa sasagutin ba ng simbahan lahat ng problema na ating nararanasan… hindi sasabihin lang nila na kasalanan ng gobyerno yan.. “not our problem” agad ang sasabihin………..
malaking mali at pagkakamali ang iyong isinulat at isinabi dito prontiera… hindi epekto ng sobrang populasyon ang kahirapan bagkos maling pag babahagi-bahagi ng kayamanan at pagkakaroon ng tamang hustisya at tamang pag respeto sa karapatang pantao.. ngayon nasaan ang gobyerno sa pagpapatupad nito…? kapabayaan ang nangingibabaw kaya nagkakaroon ng kahirapan… kasakiman ng mga lideres ang dapat maalis para maalis ang kahirapan sa bansa…
pres. Aqiuno is an ass in supporting this dill for he knows the catholic church is against this.
tama galit na nga ang simbahan dahil hindi tama na suwayin ang cnabi ng diyos na ” humayo kau`t magparami “.
Haha ibang klase talaga logic ninyo…mag parami kasi dalawa lang sila noon.Eh ngayon 6 Billiona na mahigit and the earth resources is not growing its even dwindling. Wag nating kalimutan na sinabi rin ng Panginoon kay Adam and Eve “subdue the earth” – meaning we should control it, not destroy it by overcrowding. Controlling the earth means make it sustainable for us. How can we sustain our existence if there not enough resources to feed us due to over population?
And who are the you then to say that the message of God is outdated??? Kaya pala ngayon uso na ang patayan, prostitution, pagnanakaw at lahat ng masasama.. ahh kasi outdated na yung message ni God. Parang ganyan po yata ang gustong palabasin ng message mo po. When God said “subdue the earth, He says to Adam and Eve to control and govern the creatures on earth, like fish of sea, birds in sky and all creatures in the land and that’s it. No more no less.
Who said that His word is outdated? The key word is the “context” the “background” of the passage. DONT BE LITTERAL…
Yes you are right…subdue means controlling the animals, fish, birds..why ARE THIS CREATURES/ANIMALS/BIRDS/PLANTS NOT OUR MAIN RESOURCE FOR SURVIVAL IN THIS PLANET? Again you are so literal in your logic.
Subdue means to manage within limits, it does not mean to contracept. At hindi bilang ng tao ang tinutukoy ng salitang ito kundi ang tao mismo – ang kanyang mga limitasyon. Hindi dapat maging abusado ang lahi ng tao. To manage your children does not necessarily mean to manage the number of your children, but to introduce discipline, moderation, and self-mastery.
Una, hindi sinasabi ng Simbahan na wag i-manage ang populasyon. Ang sinasabi niya ay maging bukas sa buhay. Kasabay nito, ipinapaalala niya na tungkulin ng mga magulang na bigyan ng sapat na edukasyon at pagpapalaki ang mga ipinagkatiwala ng Diyos. Ibig sabihin, kung sa palagay ng mag-asawa ay hindi nila kayang gampanan ang pagiging magulang sa maraming anak, kailangan nilang makipag-cooperate sa kalikasang pantao na ibinigay sa kanila ng Diyos.
Pangalawa, kahit ano pang sabihin ng US, ng ibang mga bansa, at ng mga taga-sunod nina Malthus, Darwin, at Sanger, matagal nang bumagsak ang alamat ng overpopulation.
Pangatlo, hindi sinabi ng Diyos na magpakarami dahil dadalwa pa lang ang tao noon. Kahit 10 milyon na sila noon, mananatili pa rin na pagpapala ang fertility at hindi ito kailanman magiging sumpa gaya ng turing dito ng marami ngayon. Kung susukatin mo ang mundo (o kahit ang Pilipinas lang), malayong-malayo ito sa sinasabing pagkapuno. Isang malaking pandaraya ang pagpapakita ng larawan ng isang siksikan na lugar na para bang ganito ang sitwasyon sa buong bansa. Ito ay isang intensyonal na panlilinlang. Ang ipinapakita nila ay mga urban area kung saan ang lahat ay nagsisiksikan dahil sa maling akala na dito may buhay. Ang sinabi ng Diyos ay hindi lamang magpakarami kundi punuin ang daigdig. Kahit sa panahon na mamamatay na ang mga kaapu-apuhan ng henerasyong ito, imposibleng mapuno ang mundo o kahit ang Pilipinas lang. Pero hindi ibig sabihin ay maaaring balewalain ng mga magulang ang pagpaplano tungkol sa pagsisilang; mananatili pa rin basehan ang kanilang kakayahang bigyan ng marangal na buhay at edukasyon ang kanilang mga anak.
Pang-apat, hindi totoo na kulang sa kayamanan ang mundo at ang ating bansa. Hanggat may mga taong namumuhay sa kalabisan, lagi itong mangangahulugan na ang dahilan ng kakulangan ng iba ay ang hindi balanseng pagamit ng yaman ng bansa.
The Catholic church is responsible for the deaths of thousands of martyrs who devoted themselves to the translation of the bible.
VATICAN I
The bible was only written and preached in Latin, prohibiting people from understanding its true meaning.
Thousands of scholars and millions were burned alive because they translated the bible in English!
They died with their translated work hanged on their necks.
INDULGENCES?
PURGATORY?
MARY MOTHER OF GOD?
The church already admitted they were false.
THE APARITIONS OF MARY ARE NOT TRUE.
The priests who claimed them admitted.
VATICAN II
THE REFORMED CATHOLIC CHURCH??
The NOW Catholic church adopted every protestant teaching there was.
BUT preserved the papacy.
Pope John Paul said, “Do not come to Christ for mercy, come to me.”
Who is he?? HE’S NOT GOD.
AND he said he stated that he believes in the theory of evolution??
That completely contradicts bible history.
I am not without sin.
Clearly, you are losing grasp of what you thought you firmly believed in by the length of your comment.
Know your Christian history.
Where did you get your phony history and claims? Are you that desperate to discredit the Church? You are embarrassing yourself.
You read world history…try research inquisition.
Pareng Jur,
Ang topic ay tungkol sa RH Bill.
It’s good that you ask these questions because it means you show interest, but don’t you think they are better off posted on a catholic forum where they can be addressed properly?
I see a lot of misinformation on your posts, but am stopping you there.
It is considered an etiquette to keep your posts on topic and spare the other readers from getting confused.
You have so many questions and you yourself doesn’t exert effort to find the answers of it. Are you? Then go to a Catholic forum and let your eyes and ears open. Do not be close minded. I am saying this to you with gentleness because almost all the words in this forum are already full of emotions. Be careful of not hurting feelings of others by not saying bad and nonsense words, that is not Christ-like. Please, let us control our emotions and be gentle. This is a virtue that we must practice here on earth.
You are the one who is close minded…dig into the history of the roman catholic, the lives of many of your popes, the basis of your doctrineS…educate your self with the word of God and not on written documents of your Church leaders. GO BACK TO THE BASIC FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITY- THE BIBLE.
All religions and sects (except Catholics) based their belief only in the Bible. See the difference? you are all the same on your belief of the Bible and yet all of you are different with one another because you believe that the bible is the only one. We have the Traditions and messages from heaven to saints, messages of the Blessed Mother Mary and many visionaries and mystics. Catholic is the only one.
Give me some verses then of your claim? Does it written in the Bible? I told you even the word Bible is not written in the Bible.
Tell me then your doctrine of Bible alone.
ayoko sa RH Bill na ito. Kung babasahin lang natin napakapositibo ngunit kung susuriin natin ng maigi sa likod nito maraming kasamaan ang maidudulot sa tao. Ang buhay ay biyayang kaloob ng Diyos sa bawat tao ngunit kung mayroong hahadlang sa paglago ng buhay, hinahadlangan nito ang plano ng Diyos at ang ang paghadlang sa plano ng Diyos ay pagsuway sa Diyos.Sino ang tao para hadlangan ang buhay na ibibigay ng Diyos? ang paghihirap ng maraming Pilipino ay hindi dahil sa malaking populasyon kundi sa kurapsyon. marami sa atin ang reklamo ng reklamo malaki daw ang populasyon kaya tayo ay naghihirap sa palagay ko hindi dapat. maraming pilipino ang nagpapakasasa sa yaman tulad ng “mayaman at si Lazaro” marami ang Kotse, bahay, aso na kung minsan ay mahalaga pa sa tao. sa halip na pahalagahan ang tao iba ang pinahahalagahan. ang tanong ko sa mga nagsusulong ng Bill na ito ano na nga ba ang nagawa nyo para sa mga kapwa Pilipinong naghihirap? kaya ba ninyong ibigay pati buhay niyo para sa mga maliliit na ito? Kung ang Diyos (KRISTO) ay nagpakatao at ibinigay ang buhay NIYA para sa atin ano ang karapatan natin para hadlangan ang buhay. ang “paghadlang” sa buhay ay pagtanggi sa buhay at ang pagtanggi sa buhay ay pagtanngi sa Diyos na pinagmumulan ng buhay. ASK GOD FIRST. Brothers and Sisters.
threatening the president with excommunication and civil disobedience is not the church stating what it believes in. it is a threat. it is bullying.
the church can state whatever it believes in, but that is not just what it is doing, it is forcing the administration to adapt its beliefs as state policy.
aquino’s position is to allow BOTH traditional methods of contraception AND modern methods of contraception. aquino’s position INCLUDES the beliefs of the church.
the catholic church on the other hand is trying to bully aquino to EXCLUDE modern methods of contraception and promote only traditional methods of contraception.
“threatening the president with excommunication and civil disobedience is not the church stating what it believes in. it is a threat. it is bullying.”
You should read the comments and stories that prove you wrong when you’re insisting that the bishops threaten Noynoy of excommunication. Aside from that, if the Church sees that a leader (a public figure and servant that is supposed to protect the citizens) are acting in moral error, it is not wrong to remind him that he might be excommunicated. But again, that is not even the case here. Bishop Odchimar was even reluctant to talk about excommunication. It is the media who assumed that the bishop is threatening the president.
“the church can state whatever it believes in, but that is not just what it is doing, it is forcing the administration to adapt its beliefs as state policy.”
The Church is protesting against the proposals of the RH bill, it is not “forcing” anybody. It is constantly resisting – a reaction rather than an initiative – the proposed policies that it deems harmful. If the force that you are referring to is the “excommunication threat”, then that force is nonexistent.
“aquino’s position is to allow BOTH traditional methods of contraception AND modern methods of contraception. aquino’s position INCLUDES the beliefs of the church.”
Again, just to make my stand clear, there is no such thing as modern methods – only artificial ones. So to avoid repetitions about this, better use the words “natural” and “artificial”, rather than the propagandists’ terms, “traditional” and “modern” as if they really exist.
Artificial methods are not illegal or disallowed in the country, and the bishops do not even protest against having contraceptives in the pharmacies nationwide. What they oppose is the idea that couples, students, and all the citizens in general will be miseducated about contraception, values, beliefs, and behaviors toward sexuality to create a contraceptive culture, and that we will be obliged to give our money for something that we fight against.
You are casually ignoring the question: “Who really are being bullied?” Who are being violated?
@wawam
Again, there is no threat of excommunication against p-noy.
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/202368/cbcp-chief-no-threat-of-excommunication-vs-aquino
Kindly read the Disclaimer of Bishop Nereo Odchimar, D.D., CBCP President
It is very sad because the mentality of the people is like this” kaya ka mahirap dahil malaki ang family mo” baka naman kaya mahirap hindi sa laki ng family but because of corruption. hindi masikip and pilipinas nagsisiksikan lang sa maynila.contraceptive is not only the issue sa rh bill kundi the acro name na DEATH meaning,, DIVORCE, MERCY KILLING,ABORTION,TOTAL PUPOLATION CONTROL,AT HOMOSEXUAL.KAYA THE CATHOLIC CHURCH NOT FOR RH BILL…THIS IS THE ISSUE OF MORALITY KAYA THE CATHOLIC CHURCH NAKIKIALAM. NAKAKALUNGKOT DIN NA NONOY MOTHER’S IS VERY RELIGIOUS bkit hindi niya alam na this is not good for the humanity. ang mahirap kasi kulang tayo ng disiplina we do what we want to do but not what we ought to do.kaya mahirap din ang buhay ng iba nating kababayan dahil sa katamaran at sugal hindi dahil sa malaking papolasyon..hanggang ngayon ang mahirap ay talagang naghihirap at ang mayaman ay yumayaman kasi hindi patas. walang gustong magshare ng wealth nila..hindi naman nila maisasama kapag nmatay sila, masyado kasi tayong maraming kailangan na hindi naman importante.
What is the bill meant for anyway? What is the root reason on why this was created?
Freedom to choose? Womens rights?
The Filipino people already have the right and freedom to choose between traditional methods of contraception AND modern methods of contraception. Rendering this bill useless because today, the freedom to choose is already practiced. Denying this bill doesn’t mean one is against freedom or womens rights.
How about spreading the know how of contraceptives? Aren’t the nurses doing that already? Heck, nurses today wouldn’t be able to graduate without having to talk about contraceptives to people. They even alot time to talk about this on seminars or medical outreach sessions.
How about overpopulation then?
If you consider thinning out the populace as an investment for this country, please think again. We have tons of Filipino people already migrating to other countries to cater to their needs for manpower because those countries thought that controlling their demographics was best for them. I don’t wanna see that replicated in our country. I love this country, that’s why I am against RH bill.
Too many mouths to feed?
The mouths you feed today will be be the ones feeding the mouths of your grand children and great grandchildren, think about that. As a parent, it is your responibilty and duty to teach and mold your children into great men and women. This means you have to put them above your own wants and ambitions. That is what a real parent is all about, sacrifice. Raising children is not easy and it will never be. To compromise oneself for the other, that is love. Bring that love to your children and am sure they won’t be leaving you in ‘old age homes’ when you grow old.
Tell me how will contraception compare to that. When you can easily give in to your want for sex because you know that it is safe against pregnancy. Is it not selfish love? The uncompromising one? What separates you now from an animal? Is there reason involved in the act of sex with contraception? Isn’t that just lust? We all know sex connotes pro creation. Gusto pa nating tanggalin ang pro creation. That why most relationships today do not prosper, kasi hindi na marunong mag sakripisyo puro ginhawa at sarap lang hanap. Look at the western countries today, so many broken and extended families. How about their poor kids? They say they are not poor because the real parents are financially taking care of them. But aren’t they poor from love?
And regarding making these contraceptives free for all unmarried and married individuals. I’d rather have the taxes I pay to the government be invested in projects with greater ROI (return of investment). Than have my sons and daughters fed this contraceptive bullcrap and immerse them in temptation. The world already has enough temptation without this. Having RH bill around just make it harder for parents to transist good moral values and protect their family.
We are human, we are made to do great things, to protect our wives, our children, our family.
hi,
It is not true that the Catholic church is only for Natural Family planning. The Church also allows the use of contraceptives in other cases..
please read this article to avoid misrepresenting the Catholic Church.
http://catholicposition.blogspot.com/2010/10/why-p-noy-should-go-on-with-his.html
Tnx!
The Catholic Position blog site is not even Catholic.
If you are still trying to question the Church’s stand against the RH bill, why don’t you make a research on what is happening in countries where the bill has been implemented some 10 to 30 years ago. You would find that their population growth is in the negative and in the next 20 years, their economies will collapse as their population is moving towards past 50s and 60s. Besides, you might have heard of indiscriminate sex and abortion among youths as young as 12 years of old. For sure, one will definitely know that RH bill is satanic when the person dies and settles in hell together with all pro-choice doctors, politicians, would be mothers, prostitutes, gays, profligates, adulterers, etc. While you still have a chance
thats not really the case since our businesses more automatic. 20 years from now, jobs that people used to have will be transferred to machines so population does not really matter. what matters is that the states form a sustainable economy able to support the population. however, since this is only a prediction we cannot be sure that this will actually happen. the same thing goes for your prediction that their economies will fall. oh yeah, we’ll really have to settle in hell because heaven will probably be too populated with people like you who are intolerant of other people’s beliefs and way of life that God will leave heaven and join us in hell hahahhaha
Urak
Here:
http://www.maryourmother.net/Life.html
That is the reason why the Church is against the RH bill. Life begins at conception and it is there in the Bible. So during the time when the sperm cell and the egg cell meets, life is now formed! However, the natural tendency of the flow of sperm cell to the egg cell is being distorted by the contraceptives. That is the main reason why contraceptives is considered as a MURDER to the new-born life. Again, it is because life begins at conception and not when the fetus is made visible to the womb.
To all my dear Filipinos,
Ask yourself this before wanting this RH Bill to be passed,
“What if this bill was passed earlier? What if my parents took these pills and followed the artificial family planning suggested by this bill? Would I still be able to have my say on this subject today?”
“What if I was the 11th son of a poor family?”
“If I had more brothers or sisters, I would be willing to work myself out to bring them good education. As a help to my parents.” – I know some selfless individuals who are like this, and I honor them with great respect.
“What if I was the 11th son of a poor family?”
Knowing they were poor, they still gave life to me, and because of that, I know that they wanted me to be born, they love me, and will do everything they can to care for me.
Sir, I agree with your latter statement, and I, too, honor these individuals with great respect.
it probably does not matter because we won’t have the problem we have now if they did hahaha
But we will now be faced with even BIGGER problems. Look at the other countries who have implemented these types of laws, their problems are even bigger than ours now.
what countries have the same law as the RH Bill?
even a turtle with half a brain understands that is a threat. it is not like the church has not done the same shit with other pro-rh bill proponents.
“I stated that the initial approach of this issue is to be in the spirit of dialogue and not of confrontation. Threat of excommunication at this point of time can hardly be considered to be in line with dialogue.” – +NEREO P. ODCHIMAR, DD,
Bishop of Tandag, CBCP President
Ok, for the sake of those lower than “turtles with half a brainers”.
Care to explain your point?
Both parties are open for a dialogue, lets not get in their way to make it happen.
again, a turtle with half a brain knows that was said by the bishop just as a damage control. the bishop was probably told by his superiors that he was wrong in threatening aquino with excommunication, so to repair his damaged reputation, the bishop is now saying dialogue.
what spirit of dialogue was the bishop talking about? the first two things that came from them were (1) the threat of excommunication and (2) threat of civil disobedience. that is no dialogue, that is bullying.
this bishop is full of BS. even turtles with half a brain know that.
During Thursday’s interview on Radio Veritas, Odchimar said the prospect of excommunication for Aquino “can be a possibility,” but not “a proximate possibility.”
It was an interview between a commentator not P-noy himself, and the bishop was obliged to voice out his opinions as an individual. He is indeed accountable for his own thoughts. Nevertheless, was it really intended as a threat or was it made to show like a threat?
You claim it as a way of repairing his damaged reputation and after having conversed with his superiors. Was it also not said to make things clear and as an invite for an open dialogue for the two parties to hear each others side?
You say they are full of it. Will a bully ever offer to hear the side of the loser (the one he is bullying)?
Well, the man is desperate to prove the unprovable. He even uses bad words believing that it would intensify his “truth”. He also uses insulting remarks like “turtle with half a brain” to make himself feel that he is intelligent. I don’t think it’s even worthy of a reply.
The signs of a bully is it not?
Exactly! And the last words are, “lets stop this dialogue BS.”
this is NOT the first time the excommunication threat was used by the church. this was extensively used by them during the elections. so, please lets stop this dialogue BS.
and your point?
guyz… easy. wag natayong magbulag-bulagan dahil kung talagang gusto ng dios na magparami at ngayon ay talagang marami na tayo. gugustohin nga ba na makita tayong naghihirap dahil sa sinabi nyang “humayo kayo at magparami”. guyz kong talagang di natin makontrol ang paglaki ng papolasyon lalo lang tayo maghihirap at yun ang di nakikita ng simbahan pero tama sila wag nating labagin ang utos ng dios pero need na natin maghinay hinay dahil masmasakit tingnan na marami ang namamatay bawat taon dahil sa gutom. isa pang tanong ko sa inyo bakit nagnanakaw ang mga tao? sagot ko: hindi sila likas na masama dahil gusto din nilang mabuhay dahil sa panahon ngayon competative na ang mundo…..
Tama, “wag natayong magbulag-bulagan.” Maraming beses nang pinagdidiinan ang totoong problema ng bansa pero isinisisi pa rin natin sa kung ano-anong mga bagay. “Korapsyon ang problema, kahirapan ang resulta.” Nakalimutan nyo na ba agad ang linyang ito o wala kayong pakialam, dahil para sa inyo ay populasyon ang problema?
“bakit nagnanakaw ang mga tao?”
Maraming dahilan kung bakit nagnanakaw ang mga tao at isa na dyan ang pagiging ganid. May mga nagnanakaw dahil sa gutom pero hindi bilyon-bilyon ang ninanakaw nila kundi sapat lang na pangkain. Pero ang kinukundena natin dito ay hindi ang mga nagugutom na mahihirap kundi ang mga buwayang mayayaman na ninanakaw ang bilyon-bilyong kaban ng bayan. Isa pa ay ang mga mapagsamantalang tao na lalong pinapahirap ang mahihirap habang sila ay nagpapasasa sa pinagpaguran ng iba.
Ang nagpapahirap sa ating bansa at sa bawat indibidwal ay ang mga magnanakaw at mga mapagsamantala. Ang solusyon ay tapusin ang problema sa korapsyon at tugisin ang mga nagpapayaman sa maling paraan.
sorry nadelay! pero wag natayong mag-away instead of war make love.. :3
isa lang sagot nyan kung talagang ayaw nyo ng RH bill o gusto nyo naman.. kung talagang nag iisip tayo di sana hahantung sa ganito! kurapsyon kahit saan( magobyerno man, simbahan at maski tayong mga tao) kawalang disiplina sa pagpaparami (dahil daw sa utos ng dios at democratic country tayo o sadyang wala tayong disiplina) ayaw nyo ng RH bill dahil daw nahahadlangan ang kagustohan ng dios: mga posibliing solosyon:idi bagohin ang nilalaman ng RH bill instead the use of contraceps bali 2 o 3 na anak per family( yung mga newly weds ang magsisimula non)so wala ng away sa simbahan at gobyerno kung ganito nalang.. walang nahahadlangang utos ng dios dahil di kanaman magsisimula ng buhay. bali nasa tao na yon kung maghihinay-hinay sila. away kayo ng away daig nyo pa yung mga lasing sa kalye. imbis away kayo ng away idi gawan ng solosyun na mapagisa ang gusto ng simbahan at ang gobyerno, magbigay nalang kayo ng mga idiya na mapag-isa sila. wag nyong ipilit mga principles nyo dahil wala kayon magagawa sa pagdidibate nyo dyan!
at isa pa ayaw ko sa contraceps dahil aabusuhin ito para sa abortion at di kunaman gusto ang tuno ng simbahan na magparami kayo ng walang kontrol dahil over populated na tayo.. ano agree ba kayo?
It’s not as simple as you think it is. Hindi papayag ang mga sumulat ng RH bill na alisin ang contraception sa kanilang panukala dahil ito talaga ang pinakasentro nito. Contraceptives means money. Hindi si Edcel Lagman ang sumulat ng RH bill, siya lang ang front nito, although isa siya sa mga makikinabang. The bill is about budget and not about demography. Sinasamantala lang nila ang paghihirap ng bansa para sabihing tayo ay overpopulated (na imposibleng mangyari), at dahil sobrang laki ng populasyon ay dapat itong bawasan, at ang paraan para mabawasan ay mag-allocate ng “BUDGET” para sa contraceptive drugs, devices, and services. Maaari mong i-suggest lahat ng idea na mabubuo mo, pero kung ito ay mangangahulugan ng pagkawala ng contraceptives sa RH bill o kaya ay tuluyang pagiging “libre” ng proyekto, imposible itong mangyari. Hindi sila nag-ubos ng resources at lakas sa pagsulong ng panukalang ito para lang malugi sa huli.
of course it does.
the mention of the possibility of an excommmunication specially when the bishop knew there is no basis for it is by itself altready a threat. the bishop knew he was talking out of chruch canon law when he mentioned excommunication but he brought it up just the same because he knew it will get the attention of aquino and the public. he mentioned all for the purpose of threatening aquino and in effect all other catholics who support the RH Bill.
Hehe!
tama ka wil mahirap nga dahil mapanglamang ang mga tao sa pinas!
even a turtle with half a brain knows.
You have a brain alright. But I don’t feel like you have a heart to understand what I’m saying.
Nevertheless, I respect your views. Am glad you slightly changed with the usual way you harshly talk about things.
Humans, imperfect as we are, we are capable of change. I believe that is what transpired to you and to the Bishop (after realizing that anything he says publicly, be it his personal thoughts or not, will immediately reflect the church) Thus, he releases an official statement to correct it.
this is nice… i have read this portion of church history…specially in different church council that slowly form the catholic church unto this day..
as i always post in different threads: that we should study the religion and its historicity (specially Christianity) from a source known for its unbiased works and scholarly renowned research…only then we will be safe from religion’s “poisonous” stings… 🙂
Para sa akin mga kababayan ko, unang pagkukulang natin ay “disiplina” sa sarili na lalong pinalala ngayon ng mga “materialistic”, individualistic, “secularistic” at iba pang mga makamundong “…tic” nating mundo at ang “human right concepts” na minsan ay nagigibng “irresponsible rights” at makasaili w/o cares for others na!
Ang natural family planning lamang na hindi tayo lalabag sa kalooban ng Dios ay ang rythmn method. Dito nasusubukan ang “disiplina”, “self-control” at responsableng mag-asawa sa pagbuo ng isang pamilya at hindi para lamang sa kani-kanilang kaligayan kahit umabot ng isang baranggay mga anak nila! Kung ang isang Pinoy ay matuto lamang mag-disiplina sa sariling tahanan at pamilya, malamang noon pa tayo umasenso ng husto!
Isa pang nakakahina ng self-control ng isang lalaki ay ang mga palabas sa TV na halos hubad ng nagsasayaw sa loob mismo ng bahay natin at sa tanghaling tapat pa na dapat ay sa mga beerhouse lamang makikita, hindi kasali mga bata!
The government should focus more on corruptions which is the roots of all evils and poverty and not overpopulation as their “scape goat” Haayy buhay!
Sino ba unang makikinabang sa bill na ito? Di ba ang mga dambuhalang capitalistang nagbebenta ng mga gamot, condom atbp! Ngayong lamang ay milyong2 piso na ang nilalaan ng gobyerno pambili ng condom, atbp. (wala kayang lobbyist sa senado?)
We got one life to live in this world and it will not end in this world only!
Whatever we believe, we must be ready to face also it’s consequences – good or bad!
Mabuhay ang Pilipinas. God bless us all
“another factor lang po ang over population!”
Ganito lang yan kasimple: Ang mga normal na tao at may sapat na gulang ay may kapasidad na gumawa hindi lamang para sa ikabubuhay ng sarili kundi ng mga umaasa sa kanila, tulad ng anak, asawa, at matatandang magulang. Kapag sinabi kong matatanda, ang tinutukoy ko ay yung mga wala na talagang kakayahan. Ang tawag sa mga taong nagtatrabaho ay workforce — ito ang bumubuhay sa isang bansa dahil dito nagmumula ang perang pinamamahalaan ng gobyerno. Kung maliit ang workforce, mababa ang production, mababa ang national income. Ngayon, ano ang isang bahagi ng buhay ng tao ang hindi maiiwasan, at laging makakaapekto sa pagliit ng bilang ng mga manggagawa? Ang sagot: pagtanda. Bawat segundo ay tumatanda ang tao, at hindi ito mapipigilan. Para maging matibay ang ekonomiya ng isang bansa, ang populasyon ng tao ay dapat na maging hugis tatsulok. Nasa bandang itaas ang matatanda at nasa pundasyon ang mga manggagawa at ang mga magiging manggagawa pa lang. Ibig sabihin, dapat laging mas marami ang mga kabataan at malalakas kaysa matatanda. Kung magiging 2 o 3 lang ang anak sa lahat ng pamilya, mabilis na darating ang araw na pabaligtad na ang ating tatsulok — mas marami na ang nasa itaas (matatanda at mahihina) kaysa mga nasa ibaba (manggagawa). Ganito na halos ang sitwasyon sa ibang bansa gaya ng Canada at Germany kaya ngayon ay nababahala na sila. Narinig nyo na siguro ang katakot-takot na privileges na ibinibigay ng pamahalaang Canada para sa malalaking pamilya! Kung kakaunti ang ipinapanganak, mas mabilis dadami ang mga pakakainin at aalagaan hanggang sa mamatay. Kung nasa gitna tayo ng tatsulok, ilang taon lang ay nasa itaas na rin tayo. Kung wala tayong sapat na kapalit, unti-unting uuga at babagsak ang pundasyon natin dahil mas mabigat ang mga nasa itaas. Simple lang, di ba? Naniniwala kasi tayo sa Estados Unidos na kailangan nating magbawas ng tao, gayung kitang-kita na ginagawa nila ito dahil natatakot sila para sa kanilang sariling seguridad, tulad ng takot ng Ehipto noong panahon ni Moises kung kaya pinapatay nya ang mga lalaking Israelitang sanggol. Hindi ba’t milyon-milyong sanggol din ang pinapatay ng America bawat taon? Ito ba ang bansa at kultura na pwede nating pagkatiwalaan? Ang nakakalungkot ay sa kabila ng harap-harapang katotohanang ito ay mas pinili pa rin natin maniwala sa mga taong pinaglalaruan lang tayo sa kanilang mga daliri.
“alam ko namang yung kurapsyon!”
Halos wala nang pag-uusapan kung ganun. Kung walang corrupt, walang mahirap. Hindi ba’t kaya pinagkakaguluhan natin ang populasyon ngayon ay dahil ito ang itinuturong sanhi ng kahirapan? Pero alam natin kung ano ang sanhi ng kahirapan, at ito ang dapat nating solusyunan.
“pero ang ponto ko ay kung kontrolado natin ang papolasyon maiibsan ang food shortage, criminal rate at ang uneployment!”
Ang pagkontrol sa dami ng anak ay responsibilidad ng mga magulang at hindi ng Estado. Ito ay isang bagay na halos walang kinalaman sa gobyerno. Kinikilala ng Saligang Batas ang karapatan ng mga magulang na magbuo ng pamilya ayon sa kanilang sariling paniniwala at relihiyosong disposisyon. Kung disiplinado ang mag-asawa at ang bawat indibidwal, hindi kailanman magiging totoo ang overpopulation. Isa pa, ang overpopulation ay isa lamang pabayang teyorya (Malthusian scare) na sinamantala ng mga propagandista para sa makasariling pakinabang.
Kahit isang bilyon ang budget mo sa isang araw, kung nanakawin lang din ito sa isang araw, wala itong silbi. Kahit patayin lahat ng tao sa bansa, kung ang yaman ay nasa bibig ng mga buwaya, hindi pa rin ito pakikinabangan ng mga iilang natirang buhay — patuloy pa rin silang magugutom.
“at isa pa dahil marami tayo kinakailangan na competative tayo for survival.”
Mga hayop lang ang nagkukumpetensya sa pagkain. Tayo ay mga tao na gumagawa ng sistema upang pamahalaan ang pangkalahatang kayamanan. Ang kawalan ng hanapbuhay ng iba ay hindi dahil marami na ang nag-aagawan sa iisang trabaho kundi dahil hindi sapat ang umiiral na sistema para mabigyang pansin ang lahat ng mamamayan.
That’s where the impracticality becomes more evident. Majority of Catholics are non-practicing ones. They always have a choice, though, whether to be with the Church or to go against the Church. If ever, this filtering thing becomes possible, they can always choose to be counted as one with those who want their taxes to be used for contraceptive purposes.
No, you miss it. Individuals always have the choice to use or not use whatever are being offered them, but the word “choice” is not for their employers.
“All Collective Bargaining Agreements (CBAs) shall provide for the free delivery by the employer of reasonable quantity of reproductive health care services, supplies and devices to all workers, more particularly women workers. In establishments or enterprises where there are no CBAs or where the employees are unorganized, the employer shall have the same obligation.” (Section 17)
The RH bill would even punish “Any employer who shall fail to comply with his obligation under Section 17…” (Section 21c)
I remember when i graduated we had this pledge about as the citizems of philippines. hanggang ngayon di ko pa rin nalilimutan yun. dapat bawat pilipino may contribution sa country nya. kaso yung iba wala talaga nagawa pa ng crime. actually parami na ng parami ang gumagawa ng crime. parang nalimutan na nila yung responsibilty nila as a citizen of philippines 😦
sumasangayon ako sa lahat ng mga sinabi ni jlocute.
AGREE TALAGA AKO KAY PRES.NOYNOY AQUINO.SUPER ALARMING NA KAYA ANG POPULATION NATIN NGAYON!!UNFORTUNATELY,ISA TAYO SA MAY PINAKA MALAKING POPULASYON SA BUONG MUNDO.AT ITO ANG RASON KUNG BAKIT NAGHIHIRAP PARIN ANG ATING BANSA ASIDE SA CORRUPTION.KAYA DAPAT LANG TALAGANG SUPORTAHAN NATIN ANG RH BILL.PERO SIYEMPRE,KAILANGAN PARIN NATING DISIPLINAHIN ANG ATING SARILI.TAMAAAAH DIBA???
If they would choose to follow their instincts and act on them in a responsible manner, then there would be no existing issue. One of our differences, though, lies in whether contraceptive attitude is responsible or not. If I say that it is irresponsible, then that would mean to me an act of choosing to give in to bodily desires and disregard the moral part of one’s personhood; but if you will say that contraceptive attitude is a responsible one, then you are believing that contraceptors are also masters of themselves because they can act responsibly. In that case, there will be no end to this conversation because we’re using different definitions of the word “responsible”.
However, let me make a note that at first, you are discrediting self mastery and claiming that natural impulses cannot be controlled, but now, you are praising “intellectual maturity”, which you yourself linked to one’s sense of responsibility, and thus to the ability to control one’s self.
exactly, that’s what i’m trying to point at. choice and ‘self mastery’ go hand in hand, and therefore cannot be ranked on top of each other. if i was to suppose that something is higher than those two, i supposed that maybe that would be something like intellectual maturity. i may have written it in a way that didn’t come out the way i wanted it come out, but there you go. forgive me if my point didn’t come across as clearly earlier.
on the matter of our differing views regarding responsibility in the context of this discussion, yeah i think i got your point there. but i think what really differs here is our point of view on whether we should tell a couple (married or otherwise) what they should or should not do when it comes to sex.
assuming that they both do give in to their sexual urges, and that they do not want to risk pregnancy; we can either tell them to control themselves and not consummate their relationship, or we can tell them ‘hey, it’s your right as a couple to have sex, just be responsible about it. if you cannot be good, at least be safe’. (i don’t even think we should interfere with what a couple would consensually do in the privacy of their own homes, but there it is)
“if you cannot be good, at least be safe’.
That is the motto of pro-contraceptives, and I don’t find it acceptable in any way. When it comes to responsibility, we cannot settle for less. Yes, we do fail sometimes, but that doesn’t mean we have the right to be irresponsible or less responsible. We are not perfect but to practically prefer imperfection is not a human right. You don’t want to tell your children that if they can’t control doing crimes, that they should at least not be caught. Besides, pregnancy is not a risk.
“i don’t even think we should interfere with what a couple would consensually do in the privacy of their own homes, but there it is”
Education, miseducation, indoctrination, and brainwashing are forms of interference, in one way or another. What you hear being preached, what you see being advertised, and what you observed from others are influences that doesn’t stop where you encountered them; it rather affects your way of thinking, your points of view, and your lifestyle, generally, whether inside or outside your home.
What we cannot do is to guard a couple’s room and see whether they follow what we are teaching them, but to tell them what should be considered, what should be pondered about, and what should be learned are not the kind of interference that you are trying to define.
This maybe out of topic, but I wanted to share how Satan destroyed the Family and Morality as of today and this includes form of contraceptives. Please read as these are Satan’s words:
taken from some words and arguments from some exorcisms performed by Fr. Pellegrino Maria Ernetti (of the Diocese of Rome; known as the famous exorcist) in the presence of collaborators and registered in magnetic tapes
I have destroyed Faith. The Pope himself has spoken the crisis of faith.
I have destroyed Morality. My impure demons are triumphant everywhere.
I have destroyed Religion. The churches are empty and blasphemies substitute prayer.
I have destroyed the Family: prostitution is general, and the innocents are slaughtered with abortion.
Crisis of Faith:
I have opened a small door Behind the Church. From it my friends have entered: Voltaire with his contesting hatred; Lumier with his corrupting cinema; Luther with his free examination; Marx with atheistic communism; Marcuse with his nihilism; Lenin and Mao with their brainwashing; Freud with his psychoanalysis.
Above all, I managed to make heresy penetrate the Church deceiving even the priests and prelates (your Christ said that I would deceive even the elect)… I deceived the Dutch bishops with their heretical catechism translated in all languages. I also deceive a number of professors of catechesis and pastoral with their main aim at good salary, amusements, sexology, sensual love which makes forget them the one of God. Victory of Satan: I killed faith. I killed God. I am God! I also work to destroy the beauty of creation by means of my friendly artists. I have impressed my artistic grimace in art, architecture, poetry and music. I have demolished men’s intelligence with drugs, and now, in their folly, they adore Satan.
Crisis of Morality:
Here my success was easy. Man is subjugated by the worry of his body, of the flesh, of his belly making it a god. In publicity the usual talk is the care of the skin, the flesh and body beauty. Woman is presented naked (the soul is forgotten). One has to enjoy life (and eternity is forgotten). Sin, demons and hell are childish scarecrow. The corrupting cinema shows examples of vice to everybody. Youth ignore God’s commandments; pornography celebrates the cult of carnal man. You also have youth who call themselves children of Satan and Hell drivers, infernal guides, who during pop-festivals prepare themselves for diabolic possession. Victory of Satan!
Crisis of the Family:
I have hit the family at its roots after destroying the authority of the family: divorce, abortifacient and sterilizing pills, millions of abortions, homosexuality, free love, fornification, contempt of matrimony and of chastity. Women are misled with their motherly ideal and children are left to their base instincts, negation of original sin and of its consequences, development of Godless personalities. I will soon do away with that race which still pretends to occupy Heaven the places of the rebellious Angels.
Crisis of Religion:
Here is my greatest success: I was able to divest the priests and consecrate Virgins. I make clergy lose their religious vestments. What a pleasure to be able to see catholic women with trouser in mini skirts, with bikini on the sea resorts and soon the monokini, like cattle. I was able to divest bishops with their dignity! I remind you of a significant event in Montreal, whole procession of the Blessed Sacrament was moving on. The Free Masons set a pig loose in front of a Bishop that was carrying the Monstrance with the Eucharist. Superb, magnificent victory!
You will soon be compelled to abandon your churches and hide in the catacomb. The celebration of the Word and Supper Meal will substitute the Mass Sacrifice, I hate this because it’s real salvation of the world. First your church will turn into gathering places: dialogues, dances, jazz music with guitars and batteries like night clubs. The organ as well as classic polyphony will disappear, things of the past. I am pushing for the concelebration and intercommunion between Catholic priests, Protestant ministers and Jewish rabbi.
I repeat, we have to desecrate everything as it was done in Soviet Russia. In vain, the Pope will ask for respect for what is sacred, no one will listen to him. Communion in the hand causes particles to fall on the ground and they are trampled underfoot. The women who serve at the altar incite the priests to marry. In a diocese in Quebec, in 10 years you lost 22 priests married. What a success! Christian people have lost respect for priests, for the religious men and women after they rejected the spirit of their Founders. Everywhere Christian education is set aside, neutralized by lay education.
Then there will come the third world war giving me the possibility to swallow up millions of damn souls to hell. “I will not serve!”. Victory of Lucifer, AntiChrist, the enemy of Christ! I am the king of the world! Children of Satan, fight the children of God, do not show respect for. Damned of the whole world, stand up! Enjoy your paradise here below, because tomorrow you will be damned in “Hell”
Satan is already marking his “666” sign on forehead and right hand of many people today.
Rev 13:16 “He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead”
Rev 14:9-10 “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.”
Won’t you think that this is not happening yet besides the very long years of this world? Yes we are the dark ages as many are embracing him and opposing God. Almost all that is presented in the world today are from him. He floods us with so many things that we didn’t need leading us to forget God and sin against Him. Examples are the so many new gadgets, technologies, entertainment (TV, radio, etc), disco clubs, bars, vices (cigarettes, alcohols, drugs), sex abuse (contraceptives, masturbations, homosexuals, pornography, etc). These are just few of so many examples. He wants that we don’t have any other options but to embrace all of these by presenting so many things from him. Thus, we may receive his marks.
Satan always hides in everything; he doesn’t want us to be aware of his presence. He mixed good things with bad things, truths with false. He often disguises things as good and virtuous so that we may lead astray.
He wants us to forget charity and love of neighbor by being materialism, by enjoying pleasures and best in life, by gratify our senses, by acquiring more riches. He wants us to worship him by worshipping false gods he establishes: god of human reason and haughtiness, of technology and progress; god of sexuality and of impurity; god of money; god of discord and division; god of violence and war; god of materialism and pleasure.
Be careful not to receive his marks. Everywhere the evil is present and is trying to salvage many souls to hell as there is not much time left for them.
Our Blessed Mother Mary explains this 666 mark on forehead and right hand (not a priest, pastor, minister or any bible scholar). The forehead is the person’s intellect and will. He who allows himself to be signed with the “mark on his forehead” is led to accept the doctrine of the denial of God, the rejection of His law, and of atheism which, in these times, is more and more diffused and advertised. And thus, he is driven to follow the ideologies in mode today and make himself the propagator of all errors. On the other hand, he who allows himself to be signed with the “mark of his right hand” is obliged to act in an autonomous manner and independent of God, ordering his own activities to the quest of purely material and terrestrial good. Thus he withdraws his action from the design of God the Father who wants to illumine it and sustain it by his Divine Providence; from the love of the Son who makes human toil a precious means for ones own redemption and sanctification; and from the power of the Spirit who acts everywhere to interiorly renew every creature. He who is signed with the mark on his hand works for himself alone, to accumulate material goods, to make money his god and become victim of materialism. He works solely for the gratification of his senses, for the quest of well-being and pleasure, for granting full satisfaction of his own passions, especially that of impurity. He with this mark makes his own self the center of all his actions, looks upon others as object to be used and to be exploited”.
Let us not be deceived please. This is also the time of renewal, of conversion by accepting the grace offered by the Holy Spirit. We are still at the time where the door of Divine Mercy is open and we can still change and ask mercy and forgiveness; as when the door of Divine Mercy is closed, the door of Divine Justice will be opened.
Satan’s words that is happening now. Let who have eyes, see; and have ears, hear.
He’s so triumphant that everything presented to us in this world are from him.
“This we must strive to do,” said Lucifer, “toward this end we must apply all our forces, all our solicitude and knowledge. We will subject the human creatures to our influence and will, in order to destroy them. We will persecute this race of men and will deprive them of the reward promised to them. We will exert all our vigilance, to prevent them from arriving at the vision of God, which was denied us un justly. I will gain great triumphs over them; I will destroy them all and subject them to my designs. I will sow new sects and errors, and set up laws contrary to those of the Most High in all things. I will raise up from among men false prophets and leaders, who will spread these doctrines (Act 20, 30) and I will scatter this seed through them and afterwards I will assign to them a place in these profound torments. I will afflict the poor, oppress the afflicted, and persecute the timid. I will sow discord, excite wars, and stir up nations against each other. I will raise up proud and haughty men to extend the dominion of sin and after they shall have executed my designs, I will bury them in this eternal fire, and in so much the greater torments, the more faithfully they followed me. This is my kingdom and this is the reward which I will give to those who follow me.”
124. “I will wage fierce war against the incarnate Word, for although He is God, He is also man, and therefore of a lower nature than mine. I will exalt my throne and my dignity above his; I will conquer Him and will humble Him by my power and astuteness. The Woman who is to be his Mother shall perish at my hands. What is one Woman against my power and greatness? And you, ye demons, who were injured together with me, follow me and obey me in the pursuit of this vengeance, as you have followed me in disobedience I Pretend to love men, in order to destroy them; serve them, in order to ruin them and deceive them; help them, in order to pervert them and draw them into these my hellish regions.” No human tongue can explain the malice and fury of this first council of Lucifer and his hosts against the human race, which although not yet in existence, was to be created. In it were concocted all the vices and sins of the world, thence proceeded lies, sects and errors; all iniquity had its origin in that chaos and in that abominable gathering, and all those that do evil are in the service of the prince of this assembly.
You are not far away from the Kingdom of God jlocute. Keep it up
We should be firm with our faith and persevere till the end amid this world having identity crisis where “truth” became subjective rather than objective. “Gawin mo gusto kung ito’y “magpapaligaya” sa’yo ito w/o regards to its morality.
This RH bill is a litmus paper to test our faith in God….
As a Christian country, we need more prayers for guidance and truth.
Pray for the conversion of sinners
Todo bos bagon!!!
man farmville ya lang.,
kingdom,
kingdom kamo.,
kosa kamo sabe Li??
BAGON!!!!
RH Bill, the Satan’s work! The darkness is coming, OMG!
We should not follow these devils! What we need is only to pray and all the problems will be solved away!
*Facepalm*
Another thought, if you consider the total area of our country, I wouldn’t say our country is overpopulated. They just need to modernize or colonize (whatever the term is) remote areas like provinces.
the country’s population will double in our lifetime.
Agreed. That’s why if we are to prepare ourselves for this problem, I’d say we must focus in improving other cities, not just our capital.
TODO KAMO BAGON!!!
MGA BULAANG PROPETA!!!
Todo kamo bagon!!!
mga Propeta era kamo!! konyo bu nana!!!!!
i agree with the catholic church… 🙂 ang fear ng simbahan sa rh bill., baka ma-encourage ang mga teens na gawin yung hindi dapat.,lalo pa kasi silang mae-expose sa mga dangers ng paggamit ng mga pills and other contraceptives.,
wow first time ko lang po mag basa ng forums and salamat pala sa experiene hahahaha
The RH Bill promotes killing in order to survive. Can we not live without killing? Life is a precious gift from God. Had my parents used contraceptive, I might not have seen this beautiful world. Let us share life as God wants us to do.
the problem is the people. sa mga taong ayaw sa RH bill, do you think you did your part na turuan ang mga tao para masolusyunan ang population problem? iguess hindi. kaya kailagan gamiti ng gobyerno ang kanyang kapangyarihan para mapigilan ang problema. kung lagi nyong kokontrahin ang gobyerno, walang mangyayari sa atin na matino.
We have a little problem in understanding the Separation of the Church and the State. Why does the church involve in the RH bill where in fact we have a Separation between the Church and the State?
Here is the answer:
Indeed, the Church does not violate the separation of the Church and the State. The Church get into something which only involves MORAL matters. Is RH Bill immoral where in fact it solves the problem of overpopulation in the Philippines? The answer is obviously yes. RH Bill is immoral.
There was an experiment where an egg cell is placed into a petri dish and the sperm cell was instantly placed over the egg cell. The petri dish was sealed so to avoid the interaction between the petri dish and the surroundings. After few minutes, the egg cell and sperm cell produce a weird formation. The scientist had discovered that this weird formation had a blood content. Therefore, life is formed upon the meeting of the egg cell and the sperm cell. Hence, life begins at conception! (Actually, the method called above is one of the methods of Genetic Engineering and is immoral.)
From above, the scientist have discovered that life begins at conception, that is, when the sperm cell unites with the egg cell.
(1) What is wrong with condoms?
–> It deviates the NATURAL TENDENCY of the sperm cell to unite with the egg cell. Who would like to modify the perfect creation of God? It is like having a sex change which is considered a big sin.
(2) What is wrong with other contraceptives like the contraceptive pills?
–> The person taking those has committed a MURDER. From the above, life begins at conception. Using those contraceptives, it is killing the new life. Thus, the person using contraceptive pills and the like has committed a MURDER.
I guess that’s it. That is the main reason why the Church is against the RH Bill. Take note that they are using science to somehow fix the issue.
Using artificial contraceptives is a clear violation of the NATURAL LAW… Therefore it is an immoral/evil act. However there are instances where in the natural law can be violated provided that there is a moral necessity. There are ethical principles like the principle of double effects that can be used to determine the morality of the act. Now if life begins at the moment of conception and God is the author and giver of life, then LET THE WILL OF THE CREATOR BE DONE…. Do not act against it.
More than 6 billion ang tao sa mundo pero ayon sa pag aaral ay kayang pakainin ng mundo sa kanyang resources ang 13 billion na tao. Ibig sabihin sobra sobra ang pwedeng ibigay ng mundo sa ating lahat pero bakit marami ang nagugutom? dahil may mga tao na kumuha ng labis… Hindi lilikha ang Diyos ng maraming tao na kakapusin sa kanilang pangangailangan… Ang problema ay nasa tao…..
Agree. All our resources are not really meant for us. It needs to be shared. I just read this message from God the Father:
“I want to share My view with you.
“From heaven, where I monitored the fall of every leaf, I saw a world that was unbalanced. Some of My children had every possible earthly possession. Because of the abundance of such possessions, My children in some parts of the world began to think in a distorted way. They thought then that they were entitled to such riches. When they could not secure the riches they admired, they began to think they were deprived. They became
unhappy, much as a child who has had too many treats will get sick and feel unwell and stop laughing and smiling. A child who indulges in too many treats sickens himself, which is why a parent is
careful to control the amount of treats a child ingests. My children in the more affluent areas of the world experienced this occurrence and their unhappiness and dissatisfaction led to all manner of
spiritual decay.”
“My heavenly view shifts
for a moment and I gaze upon other areas of the world, where during this same time, children lay dying of starvation and disease, simply for the want of basic necessities. These are the two extremes. They are equally disturbing to Me because I neither created one group to be gluttonous or the other to live and die in misery.”
“Children, you look to the starving in areas of your world and say, ‘But look, He did not take care of those children.’ I would respond to you that I arranged for their care but My more affluent children did not share their gifts. So the failure was not Mine, but My children’s.”
Thr RH Bill is not the solution to our poverty, as a nation. In fact, I am afraid it will even worsen it. The real cause of poverty is corruption in all its forms. The RH Bill begets moral corruption. Why? Because it will generate abnormal relationships of promiscuity; it will ruin familiy life, so children will go astray and foster many abnormal relationships, etc. See? Problems will even multiply. Th real solution to the problem is good moral education with full respect to life and for its propagation. Life is always a blessing and not a threat. The real threat is the RH Bill.
As the present situation on our population in the philippines we need to take action on this matter. But not to give them condoms it will not solve a lot. What I would recommend is to educate peoples toward our population. It will be a problem if we do not take action to deal with this over population. Let us organized our people be a model for young peoples. I think this is cause of being not responsible of poor peoples like me. Help small peoples to survive on there life give them shelter, food, education, and encourage them to do good then everyone will prosper. Economy will not work out if over population is taken forgranted! I think that’s how we should solve problem. “message from a young leader.”
The myth of “overpopulation” – by Austin Ruse (portion only for my kabayan Pinoy)
The claim that the world will become dangerously overpopulated has never been true. It was false when first postulated in the 19th century. It was false when The Population Bomb was first published in the 1960s. It is false now. That this theory is still taught in grade schools all over the world even today does not make it any truer. It remains a false theory.
The chief feature of the population bomb scare has been coercion. If, as proponents suggested, overpopulation was a dire threat to the entire planet, then policy makers believed that some populations must be forced to reduce their number. Almost always, coercion comes from the hands of governments directed at their own people. The most famous examples of coercion occur in developing world countries like China and Peru. The cases of coercion there are well documented and very obvious. Women in these countries were given abortions against their will. Others were sterilized without their knowledge. Still others were bribed with food and medicine in exchange for abortion and sterilization. These instances occur mostly in the developing world, but even in the United States there are well publicized cases in which poor, drug addicted women are paid cash by private groups for getting sterilized.
While coercion occurs mostly at the hands of poor governments on their own poor people, the impetus for it comes from rich western countries, chiefly the United States and those in the European Union, but also from various international institutions, most notably the United Nations.
Though not revealed to the general public until the late 1990s, it was becoming obvious to demographic experts by the time of the Cairo Conference on Population and Development in 1994, that fertility rates were plummeting rapidly all over the world. I will address the facts in a minute but first will point out the switch in terminology, which exists to the present day.
First, they determined that the top down approach and the phrase “population control” were no longer tenable. Second, they already knew or suspected that fertility rates were plummeting and they feared that policy makers would conclude that population control was no longer necessary. Third, they wanted fertility rates and, therefore, population control to continue to decline. Their solution to these sticky problems was to cloak the old theory of overpopulation in the language of human rights, the political argument par excellence of the late 20th century.
Enter the phrase “reproductive rights.” The thinking went that if everyone demanded and received their “reproductive rights,” as defined by the UN, then fertility rates would continue to decline. So, under the guidance and support of UNFPA, the United Nations began the international call for reproductive rights at the Cairo Conference on Population and Development in 1994.
———
“esep-esep mga kababayan whether it’s our government own initiative or coerced, influenced or nagpapabola mula sa mayayamang bansa at “respe-tadong” U.N?
Pray and protect our beloved country. Truth will set us free!
God bless the Philippines and all of us mga Pilipino!
UN is evil. It is established to set up the so called “One World Government” and into a “One World Religion”.
From the messages of Mama Mary:
GIANT POLITICAL MACHINE
“Your country and many countries throughout your world have already fallen. They have now been entered upon by the giant political machine that seeks to enslave the world–the octopus of evil. For the love of money, prestige, and power, many shall sell their souls to get to the head. O My children, when My Son returns, will He find even a small flicker of faith left in your hearts?” – Our Lady of the Roses, May 29, 1976
UNIFICATION OF MAN
“In your world now of modernism and humanism, socialism, communism, secularism–all of this, My children, is leading to the unification of man into a one-world religion, a one-world church, and a one-world government to the enslavement of mankind, creating a form of mass atheism in the world.” – Our Lady of the Roses, July 25, 1977
MAJOR PLAN OF SATAN
“I cannot at this time give you the full import of the existence of this web of evil throughout the world. It is the major plan of satan to bring about a complete one-world government and a one-world religion. And it will not be of My Son. It will be a church of man based on humanism, modernism, and satanism.” – Our Lady of the Roses, October 1, 1977
“WILL CAST ASIDE MY SON”
“Your world, mankind, is now developing into a one-world government and a one-world religion that will cast aside My Son. Woe, I say unto you, as I cried before, that unless you pray, unless you act now, 666 shall entrench himself in Rome, the Eternal City of Rome, and then it shall become the seat of the antichrist forces. My children, remove the blindness from your hearts and your eyes. Can you not recognize what is happening?” – Our Lady of the Roses, December 7, 1977
ANTICHRIST OF ONE WORLD
“The leaders of your country and the rulers of your world are faster and faster plunging forward, bringing in the reign of the evil one whom you will know as the Antichrist of one world. The plan for his rule has been set for many years.” – Our Lady of the Roses, August 14, 1974
TO COMMAND ALL GOVERNMENTS
“As I warned you in the past, I repeat anew, to counsel you that Lucifer and his agents from hell–Lucifer walks the earth now seeking to take command of all governments of the world, to destroy the world.” – Our Lady, September 14, 1979
Here’s another one (UN is evil):
“THIS GROUP OF SATAN”
“It is in the direction of the Eternal Father that you remove from your country the forces of satan now running rampant in the grouping you call the United Nations.
“You must as a nation take yourself away from this group of satan. You have opened your doors to the enemies of God! These enemies do not defend you, but they wait to pounce upon you like vultures! They are bringing you down to your knees now, My children. Like vultures, they will await their time.” – Our Lady of the Roses, September 13, 1974
Yes it is UN that wants the world to control our population. They do it in ways that offend God thru contraceptives, abortion, legalizing euthanasia, wars, etc. Many countries were being enslaved by UN now.
You can search YouTube and watch videos on New World Order, Freemasonry, and UN as they are all evil and Satan’s instrument.
Just commenting. It seems as if you are pointing out that your religion is absolute that we share the same interest in your God and that those comments are just too biased .
Though i do agree that there is possibly some sort of political underpinnings behind the U.N. but your claims are only applicable to your believers so please when trying to convince us, try statements that would apply to the whole world.
Saying well all burn in hell wont make us believers nor will saying God will save us all. Think as if everything was treated fairly.
Its not a comment that fights you rather just a comment that attempts to further enlighten it. (enlighten not in Christian context)
Flame Responsibly.
Just commenting. It seems as if you are pointing out that your religion is absolute that we share the same interest in your God and that those comments are just too biased .
–> Is our God and others God different from your God?
Yes. Catholics believe that theirs is the one true Church of Jesus Christ, firstly, because theirs is the only Christian Church that goes back in history to the time of Christ. It is the one founded by Jesus thru St. Peter which he calls the “rock”. By choosing Peter, Jesus clearly states the he is the leader of the apostles and His Church to whom Peter will established. It therefore clearly states that the Church should have a leader in which the care for the flock was entrusted. Jesus said to St. Peter three times “Feed my lambs . . . feed my sheep.” (John 21:15-17). “I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shall bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven.” (Matt. 16:19). When St. Peter died surely it was passed on to another leader (which we called Pope which is the “rock” and its leader) in which the authentic teachings are entrusted and preserved which passes on from generation to generation.
The apostles are member of the Catholic Church. See “Apostles Creed” in which each of them said the totality of it and mentioned “I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints…”
The primitive Church Fathers, who were the early Christians after the apostles all professed membership on this same Catholic Church. (See Primitive Christian Letters)
Our Lord said: “There shall be one fold and one shepherd” as there is only one Catholic Church compare to many Protestant Christian denominations now.
The apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the revelations to diff. persons (saints, mystics, visionaries) reveals that Catholic is the One True Church.
Yes. This is the one true Church, the mystical Body of Christ here on earth which is now being persecuted and being attacked by the Satan; the enemy and its allies. This is to fulfill what Jesus said on mystics and visionaries:
“It has been foretold in prophecies and Holy Script, and even by the Saints of My Holy Church . My Bride must suffer (My Church). She must suffer to be purified, and suffer to be glorified. She must appear to be destroyed as evil sought to destroy me as I walked upon the Earth preaching the Good News of the salvation of mankind. My Church will be persecuted to a degree never seen before as evil has reached a height that has never before been seen on Earth. She shall suffer and be persecuted. She has been judged already in this scourging soon to carry the great cross to Her Calvary where she shall be crucified, tormented and mocked, and believed to have died and been destroyed”
The Catechism of the Catholic Church even mentioned this great trial of the Church (CCC 675):
“Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.”
All of these will be fulfilled, as Christ was persecuted and suffer so as His Church. As Christ became triumphant so as His Church. Because in the end: as it is written, the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church (Matthew 16:18).
MAGISIP MUNA KAYO NG MABUTI BAGO MAGPADALOSDALOS TING ANG BUKAS KUNG MAY MAIDUDULOT NA MAGANDA PARA SA ATING BANSA……ISIPIN NYO…..ANG SINABI NI GOD KAY EVA AT ADAN “HUMAYO KAYO AT MAGPAKARAMI” SO BAKIT NATIN PIPIGILAN ANG PAGDAMI NG POPULATION???
Quoted: ANG SINABI NI GOD KAY EVA AT ADAN “HUMAYO KAYO AT MAGPAKARAMI” SO BAKIT NATIN PIPIGILAN ANG PAGDAMI NG POPULATION???
–>
We should not exaggerate the meaning of God’s message: “Go to the world and multiply”. Take note, the Lord does not say “Go to the world, multiply and make your children suffer”.
The two is obviously different. People have the right to multiply but people should also be responsible on their children by not letting them suffer. If a married couple know they are poor, then, they should not bear a child. They should not let their children suffer the difficulties of their family (like financial difficulty). Rather, the couple should find a job to earn a living to sustain the needs of their children.
We should be reminded that we should not kill. That is: (1) we should not commit murder by using contraceptives and (2) we should not slowly kill our children with hunger and avoid them from going to school.
For those of you who are unaware. Here is an almost detailed explanation of the irregularities of the RH bill:
Wow what a heated debate.
You guys are debating over something and using their “whatever bases” they have to defend their side but have you guys not even questioned your bases?
Have you not questioned your own self?
Majority of the conservatives “assume” (as in you do not dare question it)that what the their Church says is correct. That these things are immoral and wrong.
But have you not asked yourself how they came about to be wrong?
Majority of the non-conservatives “assume” that everything answered by logic is right, that the most basic of knowledge in this world are true but have you not questioned their authenticity? their effects and more importantly the process in which things undergo in?
Have you guys not realized that weve been all molded into gears that are supposed to fit in a clock? If we were not taught that being nude was immoral. Then nudity would not be immoral at all. This also applies in sex and other topics.
You might think that im trying to tell you guys to become animals but im not. Go back to the most basic things. Being human does not mean you have to have freedom, culture, and some sort of morality. No. being the standard human means you have the correct number of chromosomes and what not, and the “what you call” non-standard humans are those who are off by a few degrees (a.k.a. the disabled)..
Im trying to point out that you guys should look at things in a different perspective.
In judging this bill i challenge all you conservatives to question your beliefs and i challenge all you non-conservatives to think beyond the box of deceptions.
Maybe then you guys could come to a better conclusion.
On a side note: the first few comments in the chat were interesting and good, it was not too biased nor too irrational but the ones after seem to be crappy…
Now that is what you call an opinion.
umm..why do christian people worship saints and other sects?is it because they follow the teachings of God and we should worship them for that?bakit pa nangungumpisal ang mga tao sa pari kung pwede namang mag-pray kay lord directly.
i think the rh bill is good,you only said it because you are not open-minded and just think directly of the side effects when you can be optimist about it.you are way too blinded by the mere trust you gave to the priests.
your minds are too negative and malicious.
there is no law which perfect and not all people agree with you.
sobra naman kayong relihiyoso,tanong ko,nangungumpisal ba kayo? kung oo,kanino kay Lord o sa pari?
and rh bill does not only imply in abortion or killing innocent embroys when the bill was made,did’nt your parennts also undegone family planning?and why do you think so that other couples undergo family planning?its because they cannot endure to see their future kids to suffer.if you have many kids and your financial status can’t support,could you endure seeing their dissapointment faces staring at you,wouldn’t the kids say,”sana, hindi na lang ako ipinanganak,hindi manlanng ako makakain tatlong beses isang araw.”
–> You have the wrong interpretation my friend. Christians DO NOT WORSHIP saints. Please remember that. Christians DO NOT WORSHIP Mother Mary. Christians ONLY WORSHIP God. Catholics (Catholics are Christians) only ask for the intercession of the Saints i.e. they ask the Saints to pray to God for the Christians too.
God said that we must confess directly to the people we have sinned or to the priest for prayers. Here is the biblical proof: http://www.gotquestions.org/confession-sin-priest.html
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–> The detailed explanation on why RH Bill is erroneous is explained in my post. See here: https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/reproductive-health-bill-5043/text-of-rh-bill-no-5043/#comment-8625 . My friend, I have a proof. Please read my post during: November 7, 2010 at 4:24 pm | #355
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–> Contraceptives is a murder to the new-born life. Please read my post during: November 7, 2010 at 4:24 pm | #355
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–> Then they should not procreate (born baby). If not, then they should not marry. They should make sure that they have all the financial needs (and other needs) to support their children. God said “Go to the world and multiply.” He didn’t said: “Go to the world, multiply, and let your children suffer.” Read my post here: November 14, 2010 at 2:14 pm | #364
I would like to add this:
Who says that Christian worship saints??? Is it true? No.
Christians esp. Catholics do not worship saints and even the Blessed Virgin Mary. Worship is for God alone. What Catholics do is pray for them for intercession as “the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective” (James 5:16). When you pray for somebody you are doing an intercession for that person. When somebody prays for you, that person intercedes for you. How much more is the power of unceasing prayer of mother of Jesus and the saints in heaven? You have the angels and your guardian angel, they too can help. Pray for your guardian angel ask him as he is more willing to help you and desires only your salvation.
We are part of a family: a heavenly family. Think of a family here on earth where a member needs a help of his brother or his mother so that his Father will hear him and provide what he need thru their help. We’ll it works the same for Heaven as you can ask for help to God by asking help to those who are much closer to Him.
Catholics confess their sins to priests because — as it is clearly stated in Sacred Scripture — God in the Person of Jesus Christ authorized the priests of His Church to hear confessions and empowered them to forgive sins in His Name. To the Apostles, the first priests of His Church, Christ said: “Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you… Receive the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.” (John 20:21-23). Then again: “Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.” (Matt. 18:18). In other words, Catholics confess their sins to priests because priests are God’s duly authorized agents in the world, representing Him in all matters pertaining to the ways and means of attaining eternal salvation. When Catholics confess their sins to a priest they ARE, in reality, confessing their sins to God, for God hears their confessions and it is He who, in the final analysis, does the forgiving. If their confessions are not sincere, their sins are not forgiven.
and for your info i am a roman catholic and a 3rd year high school so that youknow,i am but a tiny 15 yr. old students who sides with the rh bill.i just said to you what my self and other civilians said to me.
let me add that you know if you think the church is right,you think wrong.for educating us about this stuff(rh eduation) can slowly disintegrate the cuiosity building inside our minds for we always here about rape there and here,abortion,and etc.,we students sides with the president,wwe know its a hard decision but don’t always think for yourselves,think for the greater good.do you think that stopping this law isn’t good enough for now.i think its enough for now,law-mwkers will still revise this law until its perfect for all those religious people.
im religious too but i think that some parts of our traditions are being unfair to others,don’t you think so?
–> You still have many things to learn then about life.
———————-
–> That is the reason why this page (this website in general) is created. People who have their opinion share it by posting on this webpage. Eventhough this webpage has become seemingly like a debate, for me, it is fine. We need to share our opinions to know what is really right. However, the right of one may be wrong for others. If it happens, proofs now come into play.
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–> One as being religious does not mean he is good. Man is good by his good actions and his right conscience, not on how many times we go to Church and things like that.
bbcute, it seems that you were being corrupted with the teachings of others. I challenge you then and the so-called Catholics by name only who read this blog to know more of their faith. Please strengthen your faith, know the Church history, its teachings and its doctrine. If you are really sincere and wanted to know the truth, pray and He will help you. Jesus will not refuse such prayer like this. All in heaven will be more willing to hear and help you.
Obedience is important. Obedience to Christ and His Church Magisterium thru Pope from which the authentic teachings are entrusted and preserved: the one given the authority for the care of His flocks. Through disobedience, you will be lost. Look at Martin Luther, King Henry VIII, and others: they are all Catholic but not obedient to the Church Magisterium so they built their own religion based on their own teachings and interpretation of the Bible. They even reject the 7 original books of the Old Testament.
Modernism, liberalism, feminism, socialism, relativism, communism are the evils of today. It disobeys and rejects Gods teachings through His Church. Many heresies spreads because of disobedience. Men believe now to himself whatever he know is right.
The early Protestants disagrees contraception, but what happen now to the many Protestant denominations who says that its fine to use contraception. Catholic stands with their teachings and this will not change. The sins before will still be considered sin today and that will not change. We must obey, because they know what’s right and wrong. The Church is the only one right now who fights for truth and righteousness as Satan and his allies tries to destroy and discredit Her.
Being a Roman Catholic is a “Package deal”. Either you believed all her teachings as handed down from Jesus Christ to His disciple St Peter, the 1st pope up to the present Pope Benedict XVI, the 265th pope or reject it. You can’t pick one and reject the others just to satisfied you. Our will and His will should merged. Truth really hurts kaya marami ngayon ang nagtatago sa dilim o sa kanilang hypocrisy. Maraming Katoliko by name lang even those who graduated from some prestigious Catholic schools.
Do not tell to other that you are religious. You will just get disappointed if people find flaws in you. It’s a thing that you should keep within yourself. Even if you think you are doing all that is righteous or you are holy enough, you must still not tell it to others. Humility is a virtue. Pride comes from the enemy.
You will not be religious by frequent attendance of mass alone, neither thru reading the bible alone or by merely praying the holy rosary, or by doing good works alone. Holiness is a combination of these including so many other things. You should always be conscious that you are doing Gods Divine Will in your every thought, every word and every action. It is on how you spend each and every moment of your time.
Let others speak and tell what they think about who you are. It is a way to asses yourself. But again, you should not be confident and satisfied because even if other says or believe that you are holy they may still be mistaken. God knows you in everything. He is the only one who has the gauge to measure the holiness of each person.
You will not be holy in a very short period of time. Always strive hard and persevere in doing God’s Holy Will within yourself. Saints became holy not because of the end product. It is the process they’ve gone through that makes them holy.
Also, if you are doing better compare to others, don’t think that you are righteous and holy enough. Always compare your holiness not to other people but to the holiness and divinity of Jesus. That’s the goal! We should all be Christ-like.
God bless!
Rh bill is the weapon of satan…. to divide us and lead us to distruction…his empty promises leads us to doom…our mind is limited therefore we are prone to error. instead of relying on our own understanding, we must hold on to our Divine ultimate father who have the infinite power.. this bill is just a waste to our society and illogical bill which cannot help us for the progress of our country. if they have the concern of our country, first they must not think for their own good, to feed their own belly not minding those people empty stomach and homeless. those senators who are pro rh bill, they are just making legacy without knowing that they already the instrument of satan….Use your mind wisely, “think beyond the box”
clearly, this bill doesn’t promote abortion.
Anti RH bill guys say: Contraception is a form of abortion.
BUT, ABORTION is defined as
“Induced termination of a pregnancy with destruction of the embryo or fetus.”
from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abortion
While, CONTRACEPTION, IS defined as “capable of preventing PREGNANCY”
note the the terms PREVENTING AND TERMINATING.
abortion KILLS the embryo
contraception PREVENTS THE EMBRYO FROM FORMING or PREVENTS WOMEN FROM GETTING PREGNANT.
Now, the flaw of their claim is misunderstanding the difference between PREVENTION AND TERMINATION.
Thus, contraception prevents unwanted pregnancy which can lead to abortion.
About what is said in the Bible,
“Go out and multiply”
Remember the population during that time was 2!
T-W-O!
But now more than a BILLION
if you apply that statement to the current global situation, i think u r as ignorant as ever.
Really, its pure nonsense to use that as an alibi of procreating up to 5 children.
and about priests saying “The population is not as huge as you think. and theres nothing wrong with procreating a lot more”
If you have 10 children, and you can’t afford to feed them, can you ask from those priests money everyday? no!
You end up suffering from having lots of kids, not them.
or maybe you could ask god to deliver food from the heaven.
THEY CAN’T RELATE TO WHAT MODERN FAMILIES EXPERIENCE COZ THEY DONT HAVE KIDS.
To explain this better, imagine a boy and his frend.
Boy: You should join the Choir.
Friend: Ok.
After a year, the Friend notices that his schedule is very tight.
Friend; i dunno what to do. my schedule is so hectic. and i cant afford to back out from any of the organizations ive joined.
Boy: its your problem not mine.
\
see?their case is like that between priests and couples. once you have the problem its yours to handle not the priests.
LASTLY, ABOUT ABSTINENCE AS PREVENTION OF CONCEPTION,
wake up! not all people are similar. some are very horny (if ya know what i mean) some are not.
so this ABSTINENCE thingy is for people who can control themselves.
what happens to those who can’t?
That’s where CONTRACEPTION comes in.
i’m not saying they should go on being horny, but THAT’S WHAT THEY ARE. YOU CAN’T CHANGE THEM. IF THEY CHOOSE TO BE VERY SEXUAL WE CAN’T DO ANYTHING TO STOP THAT. BUT WE CAN DO SOMETHING TO LIMIT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS,THAT IS, BY CONTRACEPTION.
Kaya until now ay wala tayong disiplina. Kunsintidor tayo. Nawala na ang “deterrent” para magbago lalo na ang para sa next generation. Dahil sa di mapigilang “tawag ng laman” at walang paggalang sa damdamin ng kanyang spouse at iresponsable ay dumamai ang anak! Tama ba na ibunton sa gobyerno ang pagiging iresponsable nyang padre de-pamilya? Kelan pa matuto ang Pinoy na disiplinahin ang sarili at maging responsableng citizen at di pabigat sa lipunan?
Pansinin nyo na pati “single parent” ay naging common na! Pati mga bakla, they went too far pati defintion ng pamilya ay gusto nilang baguhin to satisfy their inordinate desires, maging legal na rin ang “same-sex marriage!
(is this “freedom” or licentiousness?).
God bless the Philippines!
Open our eyes so we can see God clearly!
It all comes down to one point, it is us human who will make the choices.
But I don’t really agree with this RH Bill. What is the real thing that this Bill wants to promote. Feminism? With or without this Bill, feminism will strive. It’s because there are still more people who have their “morals” intact. It’s because people knew what women had been through in the past. How come women get the equal treatment right now even without this RH bill supporting them? Why is it that Feminism is winning with just because of WOMEN and MEN who believe in it and not because the government says they have to win? Do we really need this Bill to show to everyone what Equality really is? Isn’t like RH Bill is saying that “Go respect women because the law says so” Isn’t that kinda “robotic” in a way that we are just doing such because someone said so? Because as I see it, Feminism is okay as it seems. And with or without this law that enforces people to respect women, there will still be people who will and will not respect them. In the end it all comes to those women if they will be going to be naive or strong enough to fight for their rights. And obviously, they already have them, RH Bill just brought it up again in a different way.
And what of if the government legalized the use of STD and or contraceptives and/or condom? There are already black markets out there who contributes them and there are many people who already are into using them. Will everything really change if people were being spoon feed with them? Does this “overpopulation” the government claims we have can be solved by using them? And why does unwanted pregnancy takes place anyways? Because they don’t have STD? Condoms? No. It’s because some people lack works for them to be busy. Because SEX releases tension and excessive energy a person has and once a person doesn’t have work, what will he do to that “excess energy”? Store it for tomorrow? Knowing that he doesn’t have anything to do for tomorrow, will he store it until he gets something to do? No. Of course he will just release it in a very enjoyable and pleasurable way that is having “sex”. The best way for government to solve this problem is to give jobs to people, not to feed the already big problem. Look at America, they all legalized such, but how come there are still abortions our there, unwanted pregnancy? What does it shows to us? Basing from it, will legalizing STD, condoms and whatnot really are the solutions we need? Then why oh why, the Philippine government wants it to legalized? I can sense a same reason why cigarettes and alcohol are being legalized, they are taxable. the Government can earn enormous money from it. But that’s another topic so I leave it off.
And what of with “minors” who had unwanted pregnancy? you may asked. Yes, it’s not because they lack work that’s why they go into that alternative aka. Sex. It all comes to one thing, Parental Guidance. Just around my place, most minors, like me, who had had an unwanted pregnancy are those same people who have broken family, and are rich but lacks parental guidance, whose family are the poorest of the poor. The though they are being loved. And when their partners were asking them to have sex with them while promising for eternal love and sweet things, those minors who thought weren’t been loved will give in. (Sadly, there are really people who used that vulnerability for their selfish desires) It’s all because they desired to be loved and not because they aren’t educated unto what disease or cons a sex will bring to them. That’s the real morality, and RH BILL failed to see that. They thought it’s all about lack of knowledge and whatnot, but the real thing here is that, the heart is the true rotator of what humans, particularly Filipinos, do to themselves.
@jlocute: Why Feminism is evil? Do you really believe that God wants women to be under men? Don’t really want women to have equal rights as to men? Will you give me an exact verse from the scripture you keep on quoting that says feminism must not win? As a girl myself, I do wonder about that.
@jlocute: Why Feminism is evil? Do you really believe that God wants women to be under men? Don’t really want women to have equal rights as to men? Will you give me an exact verse from the scripture you keep on quoting that says feminism must not win?
Kate, thanks for asking. Below are some explanations:
How Satan uses woman for a man to sin since the very beginning, it is the same way that he is still using woman today for every man to sin: pornography, woman immodestly dressed, woman who abandon their homes and leave the development of their children to other people are among others that brought a society of today.
In Genesis 3:6, Eve had convinced herself with 3 good reasons to sin “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.” Notice carefully the three things which Eve said:
1. Eve saw “that the tree was good for food.”
2. Eve saw “that it was pleasant to the eyes.”
3. Eve saw that it was “a tree to be desired to make one wise.”
Eve had convinced herself with Satan’s help that disobeying God was going to be the greatest thing she ever did. It turned out to be the worst day of her life.
Biblically, a Woman’s Place in Still in the Home
1st Timothy 5:14
“I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some are already turned aside after Satan.”
Titus 2:4 and 5
“That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.”
Feminism wants authority, just as Lucifer wants:
“I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.” —Isaiah 14:14
Feminism is sin. It is wrong because it is a rebellion against authority. Feminism is not about women’s rights, nor equality, it’s about rebellion against God’s Word.
Feminism is a denial of the Word of God, specifically the Bible’s strict teaching that women are prohibited from usurping authority over men:
1st Timothy 2:12
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent”
1st Peter 3:1
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives”
Husbands are biblically to rule over wives; wives are to obey
Ephesians 5:22
“Wives, submit yourselves into your husbands, as unto the Lord”
Remember that Eve was created out of rib of Adam; because women were created for men.
1st Corinthians 11:9
“Neither was the man created for the woman, but woman for the man”
I hope this helps. We are in a society that many disobeys God.
God bless!!!
it is this kind of thinking that makes the catholic religion out of date and one of the reasons many are leaving the faith.
i am very sure the God is fair and just and looks at His creations equally. God can never be unjust or unfair.
That’s the point man!…You see God the way you want to see him and not the way he wants you to see him…we have roles to play in this world, We were never born to be equal on Earth, that is why we weren’t born at the same time, we don’t have the same height or weight, or look the same…or the same sex.
that is also what the priests in my parish have been saying and the same thing my theology professors have said. i read the bible and that is the example that i see Jesus has led his life. i did not see Jesus discriminating against anyone, not by gender, race or profession. nor did He treat women as second class citizens, only with respect and always equal.
Having different roles in this life does not mean discriminating…if you are an employee you don’t expect to be treated just like the Boss…but you are both humans, and not one is better than the other.none of them is a second-class citizen.the same way a child should obey their parents…God is never unfair, he judges us all according to how we manage the roles he has assigned for us…it is not because women can’t do what men can do that drives this thought…it is because there are work that only women can do that is why women might want to be more concentrated on that…just like raising good children, raising children is not a part-time job nor does it require so much money…forgo vanity you’ll live.
it is this kind of thinking that makes the catholic religion out of date and one of the reasons many are leaving the faith.
So the Catholic Church is out of date, should it be updated?? What does it mean? Does it mean to go with the flow and direction of what the world suggests? Satan is the King of the world as Jesus said that His Kingdom is not here on earth. Following the world’s direction (liberalism, socialism, communism, feminism, materialism, etc. etc) is following Satan’s suggestions and commands on his kingdom. This constitutes to loss of faith by many. Study yourself if you are not following him and doesn’t have this “666” mark. Please look at my statement of “666” mark on this blog of yours.
Also, another very reason of loss of faith is disobedience. Again, look at the disobedience of Martin Luther and King Henry VIII that leads to the destruction of faith. Jesus said in a message
“I want to point out that souls, while being disobedient in matters of faith, are obedient to the impulses and cravings of their bodies. Your bodies are making slaves of you, dear chosen souls. It must not continue. You must bring your bodies under submission so that your soul will be freed to contemplate matters of faith.”
i am very sure the God is fair and just and looks at His creations equally. God can never be unjust or unfair.
Yes, your statement is very true. He looks at us equally but it doesn’t mean He created us equally. That is why we are created differently each with different purpose. Not all are men, not all are kings, not all are wealthy, and not all are masters. That is why a slave should serve his master; a child to serve and obedient to his parents, just as wife to serve his husband; and just as all men and God’s creation must serve Him. Not all are equal but God looks at us equally. Don’t be like Satan out of his foolishness wants equality to God.
WHAT KIND OF “THINKING” ARE YOU QUESTIONING?
WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT “THIS KIND OF THINKING MAKES THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OUT OF DATE”?
YOU SAY “i am very sure the God is fair and just and looks at His creations equally. God can never be unjust or unfair.”
YOU MENTION GOD. AND SAY THINGS ABOUT HIM. BUT DO YOU REALLY KNOW HIM? ARE YOU SINCERE?
I would just like to express my opinion on this matter with respect.
1. You make it sound like everyone is under this authority of this “god” of yours. Or you make it sound like its absolute when in reality its not.
1.1 Its not absolute cause even if you say their gonna go to hell, it wont change their decisions, their actions and some wouldn’t even care if they really did go to hell if ever it really existed.
1.2 We all share different beliefs and the catholic church even has this doctrine or document , wtv, that says salvation is not only for the catholics or Christians.
2. Yes, I do have a God. Actually i’m catholic, though i’m agnostic but that doesn’t change the fact that I believe in God… Looking at it from a theological perspective.
2.1 So with that i would like to point out that God has emotions. It is even written in doctrines that He is a jealous God, He gets angry. This only points out the fact that He has will. And for you that may be obvious but i want to make it more so. Will means there is thought, decision and change. Even if that were so, things written in the bible that doesn’t mean that will always be.
Isn’t there a bible verse that says rely not on what you know? I forgot what it was.
Thats it.
P.S.
Conformity without reason is stupidity.
I would rather be a faithless do gooder
than a faithful hypocrite.
<–(the above is not directed to you. I just really wanted to say that. Haha)
With due respect,
Me.
1. You make it sound like everyone is under this authority of this “god” of yours. Or you make it sound like its absolute when in reality its not.
–> I asked this to you before: Is my God different from your God and other’s God? Yes, we are under the authority of One True God and that is a reality and truth. Truth will never change even if others deny it here on earth. When you die, you will know all the truth even your smallest sin.
1.1 Its not absolute cause even if you say their gonna go to hell, it wont change their decisions, their actions
–> Then, it is not your fault anymore if they do not believe. At least you do your part so you will not be accountable for it when you die because that’s their choice. In every choice or decision, there is always good and bad.
and some wouldn’t even care if they really did go to hell if ever it really existed.
–> Your statement suggests that you do not believe in hell. I warn you, hell is a true place. It is written many times in the Bible. There are many people (esp. saints) used by our God that showed to them that hell, purgatory and heaven are true places. The Virgin Mary said, most peoples that are in hell today are those who do not believe that hell exists. You want to be one of them? I guess not.
1.2 We all share different beliefs and the catholic church even has this doctrine or document , wtv, that says salvation is not only for the catholics or Christians.
–> Yes and that’s true that salvation is not only for Christians. Because it is God who sees the goodness of each person and He will judged us according to His just scale. For example, Muslims who doesn’t have the opportunity to know Jesus but all through his life live in goodness can be saved. But again, Jesus gives us His Church in which He established thru St Peter in which He said is the key to the Kingdom of Heaven. That is why the Church is our guide and we must be obedient. Else, you will be lost. Are you that obedient with Christ teachings??? Let not the world influence you. The world belongs to Satan, we should not live according to his suggestions.
2. Yes, I do have a God. Actually i’m catholic, though i’m agnostic but that doesn’t change the fact that I believe in God… Looking at it from a theological perspective.
–> I’m glad that you are a Catholic. I challenge you then to know more of your faith. Pray to God for the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He will give it to you if you are sincere and really want to know the truth. You can ask the help of your guardian angel, he will be glad to help you too because he desires only your salvation. There are really so many Catholic by name, let’s know more of our faith and defend it. If you believe in God, you must know how to please Him and know the things that offend Him. We should practice here on earth the virtues in Heaven.
2.1 So with that i would like to point out that God has emotions. It is even written in doctrines that He is a jealous God, He gets angry. This only points out the fact that He has will. And for you that may be obvious but i want to make it more so. Will means there is thought, decision and change.
–> Yes. Will involves the things you’ve mentioned. But again, in every will and decision there is always good and bad. Be careful with your will; it must be God’s will and not your will. We must seek God’s will in everything.
Even if that were so, things written in the bible that doesn’t mean that will always be.
–> What is then the use of Bible? Is God’s commandments not applicable now because we are of modern times? Be careful and don’t let yourself to be use by the enemy.
Conformity without reason is stupidity.
I would rather be a faithless do gooder
than a faithful hypocrite.
There’s no problem on me with you saying this. I just want to remind you: We are held to be accountable on every words, thoughts and actions that we do. God sees everything, your angel sees you in everything. Be aware of their presence.
God bless.
I just wanted to share this heavenly message for Mother since we are speaking of feminism. God Bless!
June 7, 2004
Mary (an unknown saint) Speaks to Mothers
Note: Please be careful not to confuse Mary, an
unknown Saint, with Mary, Our Blessed Mother.
With gracious permission from the Lord Jesus Christ, I speak today to all mothers. You are living in a time when mothers are no longer honored for the important role they play in the protection and development of society. Mothers, you are the cornerstone of the home and the home is the place where a person’s soul begins his or her critical formation. The enemy labors relentlessly to persuade mothers that they should leave the home and abandon the development of their children to others. Mothers, another person cannot love your child the way you love your child. Another person, even though they may be a good person, is not intimately interested in the emotional and spiritual development of your child. Many of you must work to support your family. Jesus understands that and will help you, as will I. But you must scrutinize your situation fearlessly and be certain you are leaving your children so that you can earn the money to procure necessities. It will not be acceptable to say you left the rearing of your children to others so that you could earn money that was not needed. I tell you this because Our Lord wishes families to be together. Jesus, who knows exactly what each soul requires for proper formation, is asking that mothers remain home with their children whenever possible. I am unknown in your world, yet, I am a beloved saint here in heaven. On earth, I cared for my children in my home. There were many times when I found the work tedious. I can assure you that I often longed to be working outside of my home because I had always thought I would work professionally. The days may seem tedious, dear mothers, but when stitched together they make the most beautiful tapestry that illustrates the growth of a little soul. I earned a very high place in heaven simply by caring for my husband and children. If you have more than one child, then you are teaching Christ-like behavior all day long as you show the children how to behave toward each other. If this beautiful formation occurs in the home, you will send your children out, knowing that you have helped the Kingdom to release Christ-followers into the troubled world. You may not understand the gravity of your role, but if you meditate on it you will see that if all mothers were to abandon their responsibilities, we would see even greater darkness. Jesus will not allow this of course. I want to speak to those mothers who have lost children through sickness or tragedy. Dearest mother, whose heart is broken, you will see your child again, and when you do you will see that your child has been joyful and cared for in your brief separation. Do not grieve if you can help it, but spread joy to those who also grieve. Ask me and I will help you to do this because I know that it seems an impossible thing. All is well in heaven. Have no fear that your child is not with God. We must all cooperate with heaven during this time, so prayerfully consider what it is that Jesus needs from you.
kahit sa brutal na movie na “the Crow”
sabi gnito:
“mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of all children”
if children do not see God’s love from their mother, then they might never understand it at all…the mother is the first image of God that a child sees.
how is it that the condom used to be “intrinsically evil” ands should not be used by catholics for whatever reason but now according to pope benedict, the condom can be used on specific reasons by some people and now acceptable? the bad became good in that instance.
Pope’s message on condoms was misunderstood. Here: http://www.monitor.co.ug/OpEd/Commentary/-/689364/1060450/-/13su51mz/-/
nobody misunderstood what the pope said, it’s just that you do not want to accept that people are really confused by what he said.
can you really prove faith? there’s nothing wrong about it, but what’s the use of our brains?
the human brain brought us pollution, chemical threats of poison and not to mention the nuclear threat around the world…our ingenious brain is something to brag about…we’re to smart than our forefathers…
Genius always gives its best at first; prudence, at last.-Seneca
…”Believe and you will understand” and not “understand and you will believe”..this is faith. Being humble and admitting our own limitations.
It’s impossible to fathom an infinite God by a finite human being. Only thru faith…
“For those who believe in God, no explanation is needed”
“For those who do not believe in God, no explanation is possible”
God bless us all.
–> Contraception is of course not a form of abortion. Contraception is not abortion.
–> The definitions are all correct. Again, abortion is termination of pregnancy and contraception is prevention of pregnancy.
–> It is of course the responsibility of the parents to be responsible in raising their kids and providing them all their life needs.
–> Horniness comes in because many Filipinos are lazy. Filipinos did not work.
Here is an excerpt by F. Sionil Jose — the reason why Filipinos are so poor.
————————-
“We are poor because we are poor — this is not a tautology. The culture of poverty is self-perpetuating. We are poor because our people are lazy. I pass by a slum area every morning – dozens of adults do nothing but idle, gossip and drink. We do not save. Look at the Japanese and how they save in spite of the fact that the interest given them by their banks is so little. They work very hard too.
We are great show-offs. Look at our women, how overdressed, over-coiffed they are, and Imelda epitomizes that extravagance. Look at our men, their manicured nails, their personal jewelry, their diamond rings. Yabang – that is what we are, and all that money expended on status symbols, on yabang. How much better if it were channeled into production.
We are poor because our nationalism is inward looking. Under its guise we protect inefficient industries and monopolies. We did not pursue agrarian reform like Japan and Taiwan. It is not so much the development of the rural sector, making it productive and a good market as well. Agrarian reform releases the energies of the landlords who, before the reform, merely waited for the harvest. They become entrepreneurs, the harbingers of change.
————————-
Now, to your point:
Contraception is again not abortion. What makes contraception really wrong?
In moral sense, it is a modification of God’s creation; that is, deviating the natural flow of sperm cells to the egg cell (in the case of condoms and the like). It is murdering the newly-formed life (in the case of IUDs and the like).
In non-moral sense, it has bad effects on the health, especially the woman. Research shows that it has bad effects on ones brain and hormones. Source: http://www.aphroditewomenshealth.com/news/hormones_depression.shtml (The site also talks about other things related to this contraceptives.)
Risk is always there but let us also be aware of the health conditions of the couples.
I have already stated many points here from the start of my post until this post. The main point here is that RH Bill is not really that bad, only, it is erroneous. If the erroneous parts are removed, the Church may support it. Here are my detailed explanations of what makes the bill erroneous: https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/reproductive-health-bill-5043/text-of-rh-bill-no-5043/#comment-8625
there is a big difference between “preventing conception” and “terminating conception”. let’s be real and honest, please.
whats wrong with contraceptives is this!
you are telling the people that it is Just SEX!
as long as nobody gets pregnant, it’s Just SEX!
without the church, people will think it’s Just SEX!
two to three generations from now, your grandchildren gets abused
and the rapist tells her, it’s Just SEX!
if people don’t control their urges and appetites there is no peace!
you think its a more civilized society your building when its not.
just because a lot of people today are so-called “horny”
it doesn’t make it manly…”its my body, it’s my right?” rights are for those who treat themselves with respect…artificial contraceptives is the humane way of saying castrate the dogs…humans are different from other animals because we think and we handle our urges and appetites, …if we control our appetites then their is no need for contraceptives…are you a dog or a man?…if we fall short of this expectation then we’ve made a mistake so we have to face the consequences like a man?
hindi po palusot ang rh bill to allow abortion. bakit ba hindi maintindihan ng mga santo at santa dito ang simpleng katotohanan na ito.
RH Bill and its contraception method is a sin itself. Again to those who do not know.
Genesis 38:8-10
“Then Judah said to Onan, “Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so he put him to death also.”
Here, Onan spilled his semen on the ground not to produce offspring. And this was considered sin in the eyes of the Lord. He was put to death at that time. This is the same as masturbation, withdrawal and the use of contraceptives which are all sin. Sex has its purpose; do not contradict the will of God on His purpose.
The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law on that time. He lost his life because he violated the natural law.
You may believe or even argue with it. But when you die, you will know all the truth. You will not have an excuse that nobody tells you that contraception is a sin.
Again, “Contraception is a sin”, and is considered “mortal sin” if done with “full knowledge and deliberate consent”.
Mortal sin is the sin that condemns people to hell.
It is also mentioned by the Blessed Mother Mary that, “Too Many Souls Are Going To Hell”.
And she also mentioned that, “The Sin of the Flesh is the Very Reason Why Many Souls Go To Hell”.
if you believe there are saints in here, then, you must follow them. (I’m not saying that there is or none, but it’s you that mentioned it). Saints strives for goodness and know the truth since they are close to our God.
Don’t you want to be a saint??? I guess you want to be in Heaven, right?? Then, strive for goodness too!!! Know what is pleasing to God and what offends Him.
God bless.
with all due respect…if we all relied on the bible for everything then sana hindi na tayo binigyan ng utak para mag-isip pa. ask yourself, what’s your brain for that it should be there when the bible has all the answers. for reading only ba to? if you think the bible is clear as crystal, why so many denominations? why cant we all agree with what it says? why all the confusion?
if the bible is full of mercy and love – infinite nga e – maaatim mo na may masunog sa hell for eternity…magsisigaw sa hell forever…maaatim mo yun? maaatim mo ba talaga yun?
why cant an angel come down from heaven and show as hell on television, so we all get scared and obey? why cant an angel appear in the sky and just say, the true religion is islam or christianity? faith is good, but blind faith is an insult to your ability to reason.
God gave us “free will” – to choose heaven or hell. How can a person be saved who doesn’t believed in God and even admit his/her sinfulness. God never abandoned us. It’s us who abandoned Him thru our own wickedness, pride, licentiousness, etc. That’s the reason many go to hell, it’s their choice. Earth is a testing ground for the faithful.
God bless us
“with all due respect…if we all relied on the bible for everything then sana hindi na tayo binigyan ng utak para mag-isip pa. ask yourself, what’s your brain for that it should be there when the bible has all the answers. for reading only ba to?”
–> This is already explained by Norman. God gave us brain to think; to choose; to decide. God gave us “free will” as a gift. In every decision, there is always good and bad. The consequence or reward of our every action depends on our choice and decision. In everything that we do, we must seek “Gods Divine Will” and not our own will.
“if you think the bible is clear as crystal, why so many denominations? why cant we all agree with what it says? why all the confusion?”
–> Christ gave us His Church, His mystical body here on earth; the keys to the kingdom of heaven (Matt 16:19) which He gave thru St Peter. From this Church and its people then originate the “Bible”. The authority to teach and interpret this Bible should come from the one who made it; the one where the depository of faith and truth has been entrusted. It is the Church who has the authority over the Bible and not the Bible over the Church. Then Satan came in the minds of different philosophers and people. As the Blessed Mother said:
“Through the philosophers who begin to give exclusively value to science and to reason, there is a tendency to constitute human intelligence alone as the sole criterion for truth. Then there comes the birth of great philosophical errors which continue through centuries down to your days. The exaggerated importance given to reason as exclusive criterion for truth leads to the destruction of faith.”
“These errors are being propagated by false teachers, by renowned theologians who no longer teaching the truths of the Gospel, but pernicious heresies based on error and human reasoning. It is because of these teachings, the faith is lost and great apostasy is spread anywhere.”
“Thus, the truth is being corrupted with errors. Error is being spread in a most dangerous way, namely as a new and modern way of understanding the truth, and it ends by subverting the very truths which are the foundation of the Catholic faith.”
“They are not denied openly, but they are accepted in such an equivocal way that the doctrine is seriously compromised by error in an unprecedented manner.”
“As a result, talk and discussion go on and on; but there is no longer any belief, and the darkness of errors spread.”
“See that no one deceives you. For many will attempt to deceive many people. False prophets will come and will deceive many”(Mt 24,4-5)
“if the bible is full of mercy and love – infinite nga e – maaatim mo na may masunog sa hell for eternity…magsisigaw sa hell forever…maaatim mo yun? maaatim mo ba talaga yun?”
It is not the Bible that is full of mercy and love. It is the God the author of this who has it. Again, God gave us His Church as guide for all of us; to follow Her (Church) and not to disobey. Else, you will get lost as it is the key to the Kingdom of Heaven.
It is our mission as Christians to tell the truth so that many will not find their selves in eternal damnation. Again our mission is to tell and proclaim the truth; not to deny and refuse the truth. The truth in which you can find on the One True Church; the enemy of Satan which he tries to destroy through centuries (see comment #372)
“why cant an angel come down from heaven and show us hell on television, so we all get scared and obey? why cant an angel appear in the sky and just say, the true religion is islam or christianity?”
–> God has already sent us his prophets and messengers. That should actually be enough. But God even gave His Only Begotten Son for all of us. And God continues to do so thru saints and people whom He chooses from time to time.
Your question can be answered also by the story told by Jesus between a rich man and a beggar named Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31).
When the rich man was tormented in hell and Lazarus was in heaven, he said to Abraham to send Lazarus to their five brothers on their father’s house so they will all be warned. Abraham replied “They have Moses and the prophets; let them listen to them”.
“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
People that do not open their hearts for God out of their pride and wickedness will not be convinced whatever is presented to them even miracles. Look at what happen to Pharisees and Scribes during the time of Jesus, the Messiah was already with them, yet they did not recognize Him. All the signs and different miracles were already presented by Jesus and witnessed by them, yet they did not believe.
God reveals His Kingdom only to the poor and humbled hearts.
Heto basahin ninyo mga kababayan para maliwanagan kayo at para na rin maitama ang iba nating mga opinion o kaalaman. Masalimuot na usapin itong bill na ito dahil nagbabase ang karamihan sa Biblya na magkasalungat naman kung ang pag-uusapan ay Sensiya na. Kanya-kanya tayong opinion ayon sa kaalaman natin pero hindi natin alam kung ano talaga ang kahihinatnan sa huli ang usaping ito dahil Gobiyerno pa rin ang masusunod kung tutuusin at hindi ang ating Simbahan. Depende na lang yan sa huli kung kaya talagang i-excommunicate ang Simbahan ang ating Presidente kung ito man ay maipapatupad. O kaya naman magkakaroon talaga ng mga pagbabago pa sa bill para magkasundo talaga ang Simbahan at ang Gobiyerno natin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_Health_Bill_%28Philippines%29#Morality_and_social_effects
Hindi kailanman maaaring magsalungat ang agham at ang Biblia dahil pareho itong nagmula sa iisang Diyos. Isa lang ang katotohanan. Katulad ng Biblia, may mga tao din na bumabaluktot sa katotohanang natutuklasan sa siyentipikong paraan. Bukod dito, ang siyensya ng tao ay limitado sa kung ano pa lang ang natutuklasan ng tao; ang Biblia ay isang kusang pagpapakilala ng Diyos. Sa huli, iisa lang tunay na kaalaman – rebelasyon man o natuklasan, iisang Diyos lang ang pinagmulan.
Hindi lang basta opinyon ang kailangan sa usaping ito kundi ang ating paninindigan. Tayo ang dapat magpapasya kung ano ang kahihinatnan nito. Hindi ang mga politiko ang masusunod dahil hindi natin sila pinili para ipagwalang-bahala ang ating tinig kundi upang katawanin ito. Tayo ang gobyerno. Our government is “government of the people, by the people, and for the people.”
Kahit anong palit ang gawin sa RH Bill, hindi ito maaaring tanggapin ng Simbahan at ng mga Katoliko dahil nakasandig ito sa mga makakontraseptibong prinsipyo, bukod pa sa ibang dahilan.
I am not Catholic but i also believe that it is not moral.
I’m glad with your position.
Dear Jlocute,
I am sorry for this debate but truly,
I cannot agree with your opinion.
I would like to share my reasons why
(i am not stating that your opinion is wrong).
1.0 -> I asked this to you before: Is my God different from your God and other’s God? Yes, we are under the authority of One True God and that is a reality and truth. Truth will never change even if others deny it here on earth. When you die, you will know all the truth even your smallest sin.
if that is so then, all of the Hindu gods are one? but that is not important since i believe in your statement but not in the way it was stated. But we have not even tackled yet on the issue “is there really a God?” because we cannot make statements or make decisions selfishly and just say “you guys shouldn’t do this because God said so.” – honestly it is a selfish statement because your only trying to focus on our own side. But what of theirs?
1.1 –> Your statement suggests that you do not believe in hell. I warn you, hell is a true place. The Virgin Mary said, most peoples that are in hell today are those who do not believe that hell exists. You want to be one of them? I guess not.
Your assumption is wrong. I DO NOT believe in hell. Neither do I care if i go to hell. HELL IS UNIMPORTANT to me. and I believe it should be that way for others. WHY?
–begin –>
Hell and heaven is a punishment and reward concept. Sinners and evildoers go to hell and good people go to heaven. This is unimportant to me and therefore i really dont care if its real or not.
Because, I DO GOOD because it is GOOD. NOT BECAUSE I WILL GO TO HEAVEN.
Because, I AVOID EVIL because it is WRONG. NOT BECAUSE I WILL GO TO HELL.
doing good for good. not for reward and punishment.
That is so childish.and it is degrading.
To do things because of punishment and reward.
If my beliefs bring me to hell and give me eternal suffering.
Then so be it. Bring me to hell satan. (This statement is not for you hehe, just saying.)
1.2Just saying. I don’t believe in Saints. I mean. In their power. or sometihng.
If I do good. I’d rather die unknown then be known. Im sure the saints before they died would agree. Why exalt them? (yes its exalting at a certain degree just not an extremely high degree)
2.0 The world belongs to Satan, we should not live according to his suggestions.
Who said the world belonged to Satan? I believe… everyone in the world are cowards. Even the concept of satan is cowardly. Because when you do something evil. something wrong. It is so hard to accept it, face it and be a man. But it is easier when you say. Damn satan was able to tempt me. Sh** i believed in Satan or it was Satan’s idea. Oh, Satan just got to him. Do we really have to blame anyone? Cant we all just man up and you know face the things? Its not irrelevant if you think about it. haha
2.1 –> I’m glad that you are a Catholic. I challenge you then to know more of your faith. Pray to God for the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He will give it to you if you are sincere and really want to know the truth.
Thank you but i will have to disappoint you. I’m catholic because thats where i was baptised in. Not because it was my choice. Though i do not regret being catholic because it had a role in my life that made me who i am.
2.2 in every will and decision there is always good and bad.
good and bad is subjective. No truth is one and exact.
What is good for God is bad for satan. What is bad for satan is good for God. This only proves the sbujectivity of the good and bad.
In this case. How then would you be able to rate everything?
(It is not an argument rather a real question)
2.3 –> What is then the use of Bible? Is God’s commandments not applicable now because we are of modern times? Be careful and don’t let yourself to be use by the enemy.
In my pov. The bible is still extremely useful. If youve taken history, anthropology or sociology (or know of it) then you will know that without knowing the past, or taking account of the past. Then humans will surely head for destruction. (Um.. if u haven’t just look it up why xP) No i am not saying it is not applicable just because we are modern. I’m saying that you cant take the A.D. frame and run it parallel to our frame. Or u shouldnt.
Its like treating the person you knew but havent met for 20 years the same way he/she was 20 years ago. Its not wrong but you should bear in mind he is not the same person he used to be. Things will have changed.
Personal Message to Jlocute:
I admire your loyalty to the church. I hope this discussion will remain healthy and professional.
Thank you
We should do GOOD not because it is GOOD, not because we will be in Heaven but because our GOD wants us to be GOOD. In return, Heaven is His reward for those who follow His command to be GOOD.
On the other hand, we should avoid EVIL not because it is EVIL or not because we will be in HELL but because our GOD wants us to avoid EVIL. In return, Hell is the punishment for those who do not follow Him.
The main point is… we should follow what GOD wants from us.
Yes we should be professional with our words and try to avoid harsh and impulsive words. Let’s all be gentle not because its GOOD because GOD wants it.
God Bless!
Thank you for your words.
To be honest , those points have made me even stronger in my belief.
If i have somehow offended you with my words, please forgive me. There are times where i cannot tame my tongue.
Let us both come into a conclusion that this debate will never come to an end but also accept the fact that both sides will exist and that we have to respect each other and each other’s decisions.
Is that fine? 🙂
Actually, that’s not a problem with me. Exchanging thoughts are always good. From it we will learn. As I also learned from the challenges of different peoples of this blog. It let me know more of my faith as well.
Every Christian has this mission to proclaim the truth and fight for the truth!! Even if it would mean others would laugh and ridicule at you. Even if it would mean only “you” against the “whole world”. Even if the consequence is death like the case of martyrs and saints.
When you fight for Christ, you gain automatic enemies, right? It is in the Bible. But lets not fear those who destroys the body but those matters that destroys our soul. Our soul is important than our body. Our body lives just a blink of an eye compare to eternity. Just as the same that when your body leaves your soul is just like a blink of an eye.
I’m glad with your response.
God bless.
Hehe, God bless 😛
“We can believe what we choose. We are answerable for what we choose to believe.” – quote from Venerable John Henry Newman.
Whether you believe in heaven or hell, it’s your choice and be ready to face the consequences of your beliefs –> eternal happiness or eternal damnation!
Only you can verify it once you reached there after this life on earth. Blame no one.
The Church is only a guide toward Him. Final “yes” or “amen” relies on individual.
May we open our heart and mind to His words thru the Church He established more than 2000 years ago and be docile to His teaching.
God bless us all
I have read almost everybody’s comments here and I do admire Vanillae’s logic in expressing his or her arguments about the RH Bill. His or her explanations are very clear, educational and pro-God. Keep up the good work Vanillae, I salute you!
Ang mapapayu ko lang sa inyung lahat ay magdasal nlng na sana magkaroon ng malinaw na pag-uunawa ang ating gobyerno para hindi lumaki ang isyu na ito.
contraceptives are legal in the philippines. they are not illegal in the country.
Then since contraceptives are already legal in the philippines, we don’t need the h bill to promote it. if people want to use contraceptives , they will. If people are not using it , its because they don’t want it.. SIMPLE LANG , DI BA?
The RH bill is a bill I have much doubt about.
The purpose of marriage is pro creation. Contra means against that’s why contraceptives means against conception. It defeats the purpose of marriage. This statement does need 200 IQ to understand. But sad to say many Catholic intelligent people can’t understand this very simple statement. I hope we will all be worthy to be called Christians.
I don’t care confusions regarding contraceptives and conceptions blah blah. I care more about where my taxes go again. Economy-wise, RH bill is never been a good idea. Government’s track record and credibility on implementing social programs and regulations sucks. Besides, how the hell they would teach sex education to those uneducated families who live at sidewalks and ‘iskwater’, who happened to be the primary child factory sector of this country? The politicians and bureaucrats just want some more projects where they can steal taxpayers money. If all of you really care about improving lives of every Filipino, abolish too much government meddling in our lives, cut spending, return to sound money like gold and silver, gradually reduce the power of Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas in inflating money supply thru printing money and easy credit and replace it with real free market, and no more income taxes because I believe that a person who has full control of his own life and labor has more incentive to be a greater person.
There may be , (well there are) flaws in the RH bill which makes it a not so great bill to be passed but i believe trying to fight it with religion just doesn’t cut it. You see it’s like fighting for your rights in a place where you have no rights. Sure , your opinion’s may matter because we are the people and we may hold some sort of power but the bills and the laws are matters of the state, not matters of the church and the most important opinions are those of value to the state such as the politicians, the economist and the general public (and as you can see, even if you do not support the rh, you will not be able to overwhelm the other side).
Plus, our government is actually a republic. and as a republic government the government chooses people who represent the general public and who SHOULD work for the general wellfare of the people.
The church should not be selfish about their ideals and force them upon matters of the state. IF the church really does not like this then TEACH your MEMBERS to abstain from sex and related. Stay where the church has jurisdiction on.
There was a reason why the church and the state were separated.
Rather, if you really wish to combat this bill then combat it with the right weapons.
9 best arguments why Catholics oppose the RH Bill.
http://catholicposition.blogspot.com/2010/12/9-reasons-why-i-oppose-rh-bill-hb-5043.html
Interesting. Thank you. The given reasons in that article were good but still flawed in a sense that in some numbers they attempted to inforce an opinion to a fact but nonetheless good. Unlike the other catholics who do not understand why this should not be passed and rather they would just say because God this and God that.
very insightful mich.
The blog site (Catholic Position) is not even Catholic.
really? howd ya know? haha
Simply because the author’s opinions do not reflect the Catholic Faith.
Tsk. How quick of you to judge vanilla. Just because his opinions differ does not make him “not” catholic. Would it be fair of me to say you were hasty and unfair simply because you judge based on that?
To be Catholic means to share the same beliefs that the Catholic Church holds. To go against that belief is not being Catholic. Just the same way that you cannot be a Protestant if you completely agree with the Catholic Church regarding faith and morals. Doesn’t need to finish philosophy to see the logic in it. I was actually confused by your previous statement claiming that you are both Catholic and agnostic!
No vanillae. Your confusing what being catholic is and “being a catholic is”.
You shouldn’t combine opinion or advance “elements” with simple or basic ideas. This is what makes everything difficult.
An example of what i mean.
Your a human being. But you kill. You have sex with animals. And you have no conscience or what so ever. This does not make you not human. You are still none the less human but many people are already INCORPORATING their ideas into what a human being is. this gives rise to “fighting”. because they cannot agree on what a human being is.
The same goes for being catholic. I am a catholic because i am baptised in it. My LEGAL papers say i am and IT cannot be taken away from me as stated by one of the documents in the vatican. (Not quite sure which one tho). And even if i agree with the protestant church or worship buddha. That doesn’t make me not a catholic. Though that’d make me a hypocrite but that is a DIFFERENT story.
Being baptized alone in the Catholic Church does not make one a Catholic if that one is not worshiping the God of the Christians. It is being an apostate. To completely agree with Protestant traditions is not merely being a hypocrite — it is being a heretic.
Regarding the Catholic Position, I am not saying that the author is not a Catholic but that the blog site is not entirely Catholic.
So being born human does not make you human?
Ah, ergo. Slavery; Holocaust. They were not seen as humans but rather lesser beings. Though this way of thinking is not invalid, i believe that it is not right.
I am at peace with your other statements.
Btw, i can be an agnostic catholic. They are called agnostic theists. Whether you consider me a heretic, or blasphem is entirely up to you.
(Wow we’re so far from the rh bill xD)
The Catholic faith is based on beliefs. If you do not believe, then you cannot be a catholic. Your documents may say you are but in reality, you are not.
Being human just because you have the physical attributes of a human doesn’t make you not inhuman if your thoughts and actions are inhuman.
Here’s 9 best reasons or arguments why Catholics oppose the RH Bill.
http://catholicposition.blogspot.com/2010/12/9-reasons-why-i-oppose-rh-bill-hb-5043.html
@
I find his opinions very Catholic. In fact, he seems to be more sensible than any other bloggers I have encountered, especially concerning the RH Bill issue.
He seems careful enough not to fall into extremes. You can notice from his articles that he presents the Catholic position in a critical and balance manner.
What specific alements in his blog do you think are not Catholic? Can you name one? I was able to visit his blog through Facebook. He was a member of the I Oppose the RH Bill facebook page, and in that page, he offered important contributions in defending the Church? I can’t think of any reason why you were able to quickly made the statement that his blog is not Catholic.
The author suggests that contraception is sometimes justifiable. Contrary to it are the statements of John Paul the Great that say, “…contraception is to be judged objectively so profoundly unlawful as never to be, for any reason, justified,” and “When, therefore, through contraception, married couples remove from the exercise of their conjugal sexuality its potential procreative capacity, they claim a power which belongs solely to God; the power to decide in the final analysis the coming into existence of a human person.” Mr. de la Rosa also “teaches” that a wife who is a victim of domestic rape “is even morally obliged to use contraceptives”. Whether the sexual act is voluntary or not, as the pope said, the power to decide the coming into existence of a human person is a power which belongs solely to God.
Again, I am not saying that the author is not a Catholic, I just need to warn the Catholic readers that the Catholicity of his articles is not entire and should not be mistaken as authoritative.
Mich, I just read his statements regarding the topic “Changing Religion”.
Here is a portion of that:
“This means that when a person really believes that the Catholic Church is not the true Church, and he decided to leave, then he is following his conscience – and he is certainly doing something which is pleasing to God.”
My comment, how can God be happy if people are leaving His Church???
I agree with what Vanillae said, although there are statements that tells Catholic truth but not its entirety.
I am replying to “reading is fun”, who mistakenly thought that I used a misleading and “extremist” analogy.
Perhaps you did not read the whole of his posts. It was the United States Conference of Bishops (USCCB) itself who teaches, in their ordinary magisterium, that women can use emergency contraceptives when raped. Germain Grisez, a great moral theologian well known for his unquestionable orthodoxy said the same in his book. Steven A. Long, a moral theologian of Ave Maria University, said that women who are raped can use contraceptives to prevent conception.
You have to read his new posts and the discussion so that you can have the complete information.
As what I can understand from him, what Pope JP II said applies to normal marital intercourse and not domestic rapes.
In the Western World which includes Europe and America, there is a big problem right now with Catholic faith. There are priests and bishops or even many of them down to the clergy and laity which are not obedient anymore with Pope. What the Pope says they don’t obey and they have their own opinion. This results to loss of faith and moral disintegration on those parts of the world which even spreads throughout the world. This is what is being prophesied as Satan really wants to destroy the Church. He is now doing this thru internal and external attacks.
“My Church will be persecuted to a degree never seen before as evil has reached a height that has never before been seen on Earth. She shall suffer and be persecuted. She has been judged already in this scourging soon to carry the great cross to Her Calvary where she shall be crucified, tormented and mocked, and believed to have died and been destroyed”
Also, please watch this YOuTube video entitled “The Pope and the US Bishops”
Also, please watch the series of videos from RealCatholicTV which exposes and tells so many things about the current state of Catholic Church particularly in the Western World.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV
Yes, I am aware that USCCB was one of his sources, but the thing is American bishops are not infallible especially when they are not in accord with the Pope. To rely on them alone or from other “prestigious” theologians can lead someone astray. American bishops are obviously politically influenced, and that is not surprising. As I have said before, almost the whole world is America — all the more are the Americans! We should also think for ourselves regarding the Faith and should be able to “test spirits to see whether they are from God,” as the Apostle John warned us.
To say that “contraception is intrinsically evil,” it is just what it literally means. It is wrong in itself — no exception on any particular situation. As the Holy Father said, it is “never to be, for any reason, be justified.” We are not talking about psychology, human reasoning or emotions here; we are defending what is true and good.
For me, personally, domestic rapes should not be tolerated at any degree. The couples should either talk it over (with or without help from others) or live separately until the situation is settled.
I like this bill
I agree this RH Bill. That is only the solution of our population problem. Any the poor people are most affected. Poor families are always producing more children because of lust and erresponsible parenthood.
Only GOD knows where you are going. He will be the final judge and the only one to judge.
No, i meant where i was trying to bring the conversation but it seems like you do not.
hmmm… i’ll just say it point blank then. Maybe you should reconsider how you state things. Don’t state your “beliefs” as “absolute facts”. They are called beliefs for a reason. It is not wrong to state your beliefs or state why you believe in them, but it is frustrating however to hear other people say that what they believe in is the absolute truth. What if there was another jlocute but this time with different beliefs and they would happen to clash. You’d just be having a meaningless conversation because neither of you is ready to open up to each other.
Whatever your belief is, it may or may not be the absolute “truth”. But whether it is or not. Please take into account , the others. Maybe words like “i believe” and “it is in my knowledge” would help. And yes, even if you think you already are taking them into account, its either your really not or its lacking.
Right now, i am not debating whether you are wrong or right . But rather, just trying to help out.
I just want to share something about “truth”.
The following are verses form the gospel of St John 18:37-38
So Pilate said to him, “Then you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say I am a king. For this I was born and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.”
Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” When he had said this, he again went out to the Jews and said to them, “I find no guilt in him.
Truth must have basis and not just from anybody’s beliefs or opinions. It must be absolute and not relative.
As Fr Corapi is always saying, “Truth” is not something! It is a somebody! And that somebody is Jesus Christ.
Most of us today even some Catholics doesn’t believe in some of the teachings of the Church specially if this truth will get them out from their “comfort zones!” or cause some inconveniences or contrary to what they believe is truth for them (relative truth); a selective Christians
Only in the end (individual death or end of the world) can a person will verify this truth.
We got one life to live which we must not gamble. It’s either Heaven or hell.
“We can believe what we choose. We are answerable for what we choose to believe.” – Venerable John Henry Newman
Humble ourselves, our finite mind to the infinite God.
Seek the truth and the truth will set us free.
God bless us all
Thank you for that sharing. I would also like to point out that i am not saying that the catholic beliefs are not truths (not saying that they are either) but rather :
if you want to convince people of this truth, then don’t make them think otherwise at first. I’m just trying to help jlocute (not religion wise). I know quite a few people from different churches, sectors and places who dislike catholicism specifically because of people who say things like that or in that way. You wouldn’t want more would you?
I cannot convince other people or changed their beliefs. I would rather advice them to be more broad minded, humble & be open to the objective truth. We know that there are thousands of churches, sect all claiming to be have the truth. If only people would consider the history or the origin of their church where they belong, then they would have a more thorough knowledge whether they really have the truth. Every group had a founder, like Joseph Smith for Mormons, Manalo for INK, Soriano for Dating Daan, etc. For me I believed the Catholic is the church established by Christ more than 2000 years ago and still existing amidst several scandals it suffered and attacks from within and without. In spite of this, this church still exist. It’s all because of Jesus Christ Himself promise: “…And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. (Mt 16:18)
(Note: Pope Benedict XVI is the 265th pope since St Peter)
“…And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:20)
I don’t think that all those martyrs since the early centuries and to this day who gave up their comfort zones and died for their faith and love of God died in “vain”? Thru God’s graces & their humility, they were able to see beyond this world what we don’t see today because of many obstructions in life focusing more on the created things rather than the Creator.
But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. – Matthew 24:13
May we be more open in seeking the truth and humbled ourselves to our Creator.
God bless us all
God bless The Philippines
Haha btw, i was addressing this to jlocute not you norman but thanks for the reply =D
If he is saying his opinions backed with the USSCB and famous Catholic theologians, then why say that his opinions are not Catholic? That only means that the issue he were raising were not that settled yet in as much as Official Catholic Doctrine is concerned. Now, if they are not settled yet, why should you immediately condemn his opinions as erroneous?
If he has some authorities to back him up, then in this not yet settled issue, he has more credibility than yours, unless of course if you can present contending authorities. In my knowledge, when Bishops teach something in their ordinary magisterial capacity, we have to submit to them even if they are not infallible. And I think the USSCB’s teachings, which was repeatedly taught qualifies as that kind of teaching.
He had carefully explained how the concept of intrinsic evil is to be understood in relation to moral exemption os contraception here.
So, I think he has a reply to you or he can reply to those kind of arguments which are the same with yours.
Honestly, the reason why I tend to believe him is simply because his explanations are really reasonable. Anyone who has a good common sense can easily agree to him.
You are wrong in many points here:
[1] USSCB is no longer representing the integrity of the Catholic teachings just like the Canadian Bishops Conference. [2] The issue of contraception is in no way debatable, as much as the Catholic Faith is concern. [3] Theologians are not authorities of Faith; one of their jobs is to “speculate”.
Again, as I have said, to be a theologian does not automatically mean being an authority. Second, only the Pope is the supreme authority. It is to him, through Peter, that Christ said, “Tend my sheep,” and in other part, “I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have recovered, you shall strengthen your brothers.” Christ and the Christians are expecting this time to come when one will see “bishop against bishop, cardinal against cardinal”. Amidst this chaos, it is only the voice of Peter which we should give our ears to.
Now, regarding contending authorities, let me take advantage of your challenge so I can show you how primitive is this issue. About 1,819 years ago, Clement of Alexandria said: “Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted” (The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 [A.D. 191]). Married or not married, to spill a man’s semen is a vain ejaculation, damaging and wasting it. Commonsense? Now, around 1,619 years have already passed when John Chrysostom said, “Why do you sow where the field is eager to destroy the fruit, where there are medicines of sterility, where there is murder before birth?. . . Indeed, it is something worse than murder, and I do not know what to call it; for she does not kill what is formed but prevents its formation. What then? Do you condemn the gift of God and Fight with his [natural] laws?” (Homilies on Romans 24 [A.D. 391]). Okay, just give me one more chance. Caesarius said 1,488 years ago: “Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell.” (Sermons 1:12 [A.D. 522]). These men just happened to be what we call Fathers of the Church whose orthodoxy and authority are beyond any question. Anyone who has a good common sense can easily agree with them. The RH Bill issue was already settled for the Catholic Church more than a thousand of years ago.
Let me content myself in just reminding you that almost all heresies within the Church came from the ranks of clergy (i.e. bishops and priests). When any bishop is in error, we are not bound to submit.
I don’t think he did. He was too liberal when interpreting the teachings of the Church. And he also has no reply to me — I checked it.
If he is saying his opinions, backed with the USSCB and famous Catholic theologians, then why say that his opinions are not Catholic? That only means that the issue he were raising were not that settled yet in as much as Official Catholic Doctrine is concerned. Now, if they are not settled yet, why should you immediately condemn his opinions as erroneous?
If he has some authorities to back him up, then in this not yet settled issue, he has more credibility than yours, unless of course if you can present contending authorities. In my knowledge, when Bishops teach something in their ordinary magisterial capacity, we have to submit to them even if they are not infallible. And I think the USSCB’s teachings, which was repeatedly taught qualifies as that kind of teaching. So I guess he is the one who is faithful in the Catholic teaching.
He had carefully explained how the concept of intrinsic evil is to be understood in relation to moral exemption os contraception here.
http://catholicposition.blogspot.com/2010/12/reconciling-concept-of-intrinsic-evil.html
So, I think he has a reply to you or he can reply to those kind of arguments which are the same with yours.
Honestly, the reason why I tend to believe him is simply because his explanations are really reasonable. Anyone who has a good common sense can easily agree to him.
This is very informative. ^_^
LIFE starts at FERTILIZATION..
government officials must fix themselves, theres no such thing as OVERPOPULATED.. and by having a good government and eliminating poverty, then there is no problem about having a large family.. COMMON SENSE..
Norman just answers and explains to you what are you addressing to me. Thanks Norman!
You cannot really convinced people of what the truth is. Yes, truth hurts as it what may appear to you or even to others. But the point is, we should proclaim the truth and stand on it even if it is against and/or doesn’t favor many.
Truth is a like a giant rock whom a person climb on top of it for them to better their views. When they are on top of it they stand on it because they already see things clearly.
Just as when Jesus said in Luke 12:51 “Do you think that I came to bring peace on earth? Not at all, I tell you, but rather division!”
And why does Jesus said this? It is because the truth that He will proclaim will conflict or against what others had already believed and are already doing. There are those who will be on the side of the truth and those who will fight against this truth. But it doesn’t affect the way He state things just to be in favor with others or to be friendly with many. The Pharisees are often offended by His words. He only does what is pleasing to the Father and not of what is maybe pleasing and good in the eyes of many. That is how we should also proclaim this truth.
Some people views truth as an obstacle from their path . . . . they want it out of their way!
Truth is hard to hear sometimes not because there is a problem with the truth but because of the person who is hearing it.
*Sigh* … look i’m just trying to help.
Norman is in the same side as you. But he/she says things “well”.
What makes the way you say so different from those pharisees, and high priests in the past?
They were so dead rooted in their religion. And you are too.
They believed they were right. And you do too.
People said things they didnt agree on and you do too.
And lastly Jesus came. and they didnt like how he thought of things… 🙂
If He came again. And you met Him but you didn’t know this. And maybe He wanted to teach you a lesson that people have misunderstood. Yet it doesn’t follow the “catholic’s way”. You’d be doing the same thing as those priests in the early A.D.’s (take out the violence and corruption). I’m sure as how i’m sure change is constant that you’d find it difficult to determine who Jesus would really be if He came down again.
“Love your neighbors”. Theres nothing wrong with being considerate.
If somebody is in the side of truth, that person is not in similarity with a Pharisees.
If we accused our fellow being of something on just plain assumption, that one is not a “love of neighbor” and you are already not “being considerate”.
If Jesus want to teach me a lesson about these things, it is to be humble and control my temper and emotion. Those things are “Catholic ways”.
I am simply challenging your thoughts. “The Truth” is a very dangerous word and i’m sure everyone here who thinks well knows that.
Though i respect this statement.
If Jesus want to teach me a lesson about these things, it is to be humble and control my temper and emotion. Those things are “Catholic ways”.
Do forgive me, i let my temper go. And i do believe it should not only be the catholic’s way but it should be that way in whatever situation.
those who see this bill as nonsense and useless is a fool, think about it, why see the b-side of this? have you ever thought about all what is written in the bill? understand it before you say ” oh it’s not good because god said blah blah” and ” it promotes abortion and blah blah blah!” geesuz! hypocrites! i hate those people who has faith in the holy words of god and doesnt believe in the government. yah i know, the gov’t sucks. why do you think? coz people like those hypocrites make it suck.. think again!
Arguments about this bill is unlimited. It will be forever be a debate. This is due to each and everyone’s own background on how they were raise or one’s principles in life. This is a clash of life and choice. Yet again, Philippines have intertwined problems that the main cause can never be rooted.
religion versus the secular hardly meet. often times one is too idealistic and impractical and often times out of touch from reality. when you look at everyday life through the lens of the heavenly, things don’t match often and they look different.
You have your point Wawam. That is how Satan tries to destroy God’s kingdom on earth and his people.
Please read this message of Jesus (from a series of revelation) related to this one:
January 31, 2004
Jesus
“Consider that a king travels away from his kingdom, and during his absence many servants become unfaithful. They flaunt their disobedience and generally make a mockery of the perfect order the king had designed for the harmony of his kingdom. This results in great pain and disorder and threatens the unity of the kingdom. Because of the disarray, the kingdom is no longer fit to defend against its enemies, who gradually, and with great glee, take over the kingdom and impose their own order, which is against everything this wise and benevolent king had worked to create for his subjects. Now imagine that this enemy was neither strong, nor wise. The enemy was disorganized and had small numbers in comparison. The advantage that the enemy utilized was that most of the king’s subjects had become lazy and groggy during the absence of their king. So it was with relative ease that the enemy infiltrated and overcame. But not all of the good king’s subjects were asleep. There were many who remained alert, and appalled by the disorder, sought to warn their fellow subjects. These faithful ones warned that the king would return and because he was a just king, he would punish the weak ones who made decisions against the kingdom. Some listened, some did not. Either way, the faithful ones persevered and refused to be drawn into the dark celebrations of the infiltrators. They were often ridiculed for their adherence to the laws of the good king. They found that often they suffered in other ways. Many lost material advantages, some lost family relationships because of their faith, and some dear subjects gave their lives in defense of the king. Now, imagine that this good king has been consistently apprised of this state of affairs. When his journey is complete, he hastens to return to his people. Imagine his feelings upon consideration that this beautiful and harmonious kingdom he created for his people has been turned into a lawless and ugly place where his faithful servants are persecuted. I am that King. The only difference is that I have infinite power, infinite wisdom, and I read each soul with a glance”.
To the faithful, He said”
“Try to imagine for a moment how I will repay your faithfulness. You decided
for Me in a time when few do. You remain
in My service when many have drifted off to join the din of the enemy’s celebrations. You, despite the constant lure of the world, persevere to serve. My heart aches with love for every soul created by My Father. This is a great truth. But I will have a divine gratitude for those who have served Me during this time of darkness. You are many, but in relation to the world, you are few.”
“Be open to this personal directing and understand that no human living on earth can even imagine the reward I will levy upon those servants who defended the King in His absence.”
The world now is already in time of Great Disobedience. Let us try to make ourselves worthy of God’s promise of eternal happiness.
it is one of the saddest criticism of the church – it is out of touch from the reality of daily life. that can also mean it is the dismal of church leaders to make their message more relevant to people.
i support this bill because it is a form of education for us,filipinos…its doesnt allow abortion but rather prevent pregnancy, so walang abortion doon kc ung egg cell at sperm cell ipiprevent pa lamang na magsama para maging baby,..just like if u having a menstruation,..ung hindi na-fertilized na egg cell is lalabas…we have blessed with two precious gifts, gift of freewill and the gift f intellect…so dapat lng na gamitin natin ang mga yan,..ang piliin natin kung ano ang gusto nating gawin sa buhay natin,..at ang rh bill ay hinahayaan tayong pumili ng kung ano ang gusto natin,…in our constitution, article II, section 6, The separation of Church and State shall be inviolable,..
Sorry, but you are not aware of many things related to this issue.
First, RH bill is not about education but miseducation. It tries to snatch away the right of parents and of their religion to educate the children about sensitive issues such as sex and morality. Wala sanang problema kung tutulungan nito ang mga magulang na turuan ng tama ang mga bata, pero hindi yun ang kaso. With the Planned Parenthood Federation and the US government at the background, nothing good will be acquired by our children and even by ourselves from this so-called education.
All you have to do is look at the US. Noon bang ginawa nilang legal ang contraception, bumaba ba ang kaso ng abortion? Ang kabaligtaran ang nangyari. Ginawa nilang legal ang aborsyon dahil nakita nilang magkakambal ito. Ganito rin ang nangyari sa ibang mga bansa na naglegalisa sa State contraception. Ang Planned Parenthood ang pinakamalaking abortion provider sa buong mundo at sila rin ang nasa likod ng ganitong mga pagsasabatas.
Kung babasahin mo ang lahat ng comment at pag-aaralang mabuti ang usaping ito, malalaman mong isang malaking kasinungalingan ang claim ng RH bill na hindi nito pino-promote ang abortion.
Besides, the use of contraceptives is not illegal in the country. RH Bill is playing hero where there is no need for one. “Budget” ang pinag-uusapan dito, that is what this is all about — pera. Sinasabing binibigyan ng RH Bill ng kalayaang mamili ang mag-asawa samantalang wala naman pumipigil sa kanila in the first place. Isn’t that a deceit?
This separation clause is one of the most abused part of the Constitution. Pro-RH folks that cite this always misrepresent it. I would suggest that they study first what’s the real meaning of this clause. Kahit sa US Constitution kung saan ito ginaya, ibang-iba ang kahulugan nito kaysa sa inaakala ng marami.
What’s your point? Do you know the reason why the Church is against the RH Bill? To make the argument short, here are few points that will reveal what you really want and the reason why you supported the RH Bill.
(1) You are horny and you like to have sex on your girlfriend/boyfriend before marriage.
(2) You are filled with lust that you almost like to do it everyday.
(3) You have no idea of the medical issues regarding contraceptives.
(4) You always watch pornographic videos on the internet that make your mind filled with lust.
(5) You did not fully know the reason why the Church is against the Bill and only stand on the political perspective because you like to do it.
(6) You are irresponsible that you like to use contraceptives to avoid pregnancy.
(7) You are not a Christian by works.
the reason the church is against the RH Bill because it is contained in the church’s teaching called Humanae Vitae. but the church do not say that openly because they know they are on shaky ground and that people will not believe that. so instead the church uses the arguments you enumerated which are either false, without truth, exaggerated, a lie or without basis.
And are you a Christian by works? Ever heard of the beauty of humility that Jesus taught us? If you truly believe that each and every human being lusts everyday after a fellow human being of the opposite gender or of the same gender, then probably hell’s population would burgeoning. Have a little more faith in the human race.
The only immoral thing is to sire a child into this world and deny him the basic necessities like food, clothing and shelter. Everyone has a choice.
it is also immoral to use my hard earned tax money, just to satisfy the lust of irresponsible people. why should the people’s tax money be used to buy condoms, contaceptive pills just to stisfy the pleasure of these irresponsible people. BUMILI NSILA NG CONDOM NILA, BULILI SILA NG PILLS NILA. BAKIT GAGAMITIN NILA YUNG PERA NG TAONG BAYAN SA ISANG BAGAY NA SILA LANG ANG MASASARAPAN?
You are wrong. The Church has already proclaimed it by public here in the Philippines and even in the whole world. The reason the Church is against the Bill is “Life begins at conception” and there has already been scientific research that proves that life begins at conception.
I have faith in human race. RH Bill promotes lust. I believe you have already fully read the Bill but you may be unaware of the good and bad effects of the bill and one of the bad effects of the Bill is the promotion of pre-marital sex (lust). Here are my thorough and simple explanation of each erroneous section of the Bill:–
https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/reproductive-health-bill-5043/text-of-rh-bill-no-5043/#comment-8625 –(Wait for the page to completely load before clicking anything.)
You are wrong. Deprivation of the basic necessities of a child is not the only thing that makes a person immoral. If you are a Christian, you will know. If you are non-Christian, your conscience will tell you what is right.
When a father steals money to provide the basic needs for his child, do you consider it moral? When a female person sells her own body to provide the basic needs for his family, do you consider it moral? In the context of RH Bill, when a teenager was engaged in pre-marital sex, do you consider it moral since you may mean that it does not involve basic needs?
“when life begins” is just one of the arguments/discussion points on the use of contraceptives in general and the RH BIll in particular here in the philippines.
the church does not object to things out of nothing. they do so based on the commandments and the teachings of the church. in the case of the rh bill, the church objects to it on the basis of a church teaching called Humanae Vitae.
life begins at conception is a weak argument for the church. contraceptives like condoms and pills prevent conception. the condom is a barrier that prevents the sperm from meeting with the egg. the pill makes the environment inhospitable for the egg, this preventing the sperm from meeting with egg as the egg is not present there by the time the sperm is present.
that then nullifies the use of life begins at conception argument of the church on these types of contraceptives.
Yes, there are more arguments of the Church aside from that.
Yes, this is true. Humanae Vitae is a doctrine of the Church that talks about the life of a person that gives more emphasis on the humanity side. But Humanae Vitae teaching is of course taken from the Bible.
There are many types of contraception. The Church argument of life beginning at conception is only applicable on a conception when the sperm has already united with the egg cell as in IUD. Take note that life beginning at conception is only one of the reasons.
Any form of modification or prevention of the natural tendency of the works of the body is immoral (except for those reason due to fatal illness. What I mean here is the idea like sex change for modification and illegal drugs for prevention). Condom prevents the natural tendency of the sperm to meet the egg cell. Some pills somehow destroys the egg cell.
Now, that is not exactly the real argument people here are trying to express. The bad effects of RH Bill is much worse that what the Church argues (or maybe this is one of the Church’s stand):
Even without the RH Bill, many people are already exposed to contraceptives. I know many of us here have tried condoms, pills, etc. Because people are aware that this will not cause pregnancy to the women they make love, they tend or almost tend to do it so often. How much more when the RH Bill becomes a law? Teenagers may now engage to pre-marital sex! Many irresponsible people will be more exposed to unwanted pregnancy once contraceptives fail. Here are the major effects: Teenage pre-marital and non-marital sex; Abortion when contraceptives fail; Cancer; More overpopulation.
A solution cannot be solved when its roots are not determined. You cannot solve your financial problem when you steal. You cannot solve a problem by adding another unforeseen problem.
It’s now the proper time to pass the RH Bill because of the rapid and inordinate growth of our population,unsafe pregnancies, and ignorance on the proper understanding on sexuality.But, It must have some modifications like observing that this bill will not be reduced to making sex as a subject of lust and abuse.The Catholic Church has some good points on these that the State has overlooked like giving condoms during the Valentine’s day.As if, sex is reduced to mere pleasure for non-couples.The multi million budget for contraceptives should be appropriated in giving health care and not for contraceptives to anyone of any age.
As a former Catholic churh-man, I think the church shall be open-minded also.The Supreme Pontiff had pronounced already a hint that the use of contraceptives is not absolute in certain cases.The Catholic Church rejects the use of contraception that is why there are many unwanted pregnacies and illigetimate children of priests.
pinag-aaway dito ang simbahan at gobyerno….
lets look to the both sides….
ang isang pro-rh bill, malamang ganito ang sasabihin: its not a form of abortion. it helps in controlling the population.
ang anti-rh bill naman, malamang ganito: its against the teachings of the church. it prevents the conception of a child. it will give every person the right to engage in premarital sex.
nakakainis lang kasi away ng away sa ganitong bagay, imbis na tutukan ang ibang problema ng bansa. ako, 50-50 ako dito sa issue na to…kung sa usapin ng family planning, na makakatulong naman daw siya, go bahala kayo, basta wag niyo lang ipapakulong ang mga nurse na hindi magbibigay ng condom sa pasyente ha! pero isipin niyo, legalizing contraceptives does not make any differences…meron cguro, pde na xang ilantad sa public on sale. pero kahit naman sa panahong wala pa itong bill na to, madami na ang gumagamit ng pills at condom dahil nag-eengage sila sa premarital sex, kaibahan lang siguro ngaun, kung noon, me hesitation pa sila, ngayon, baka mas lumakas loob nila kasi legal na gumamit ng condom.
kung marunong lang naman kasi ang tao magtiis ng kanilang “sexual urges”, wala tayong problema ngayon sa usapin ng family planning at morality.
I would agree, this is a never ending debate with regards to morality. However, as i have noticed, people give too much emphasis on the use of contraceptives whether it is pro life or not. Actually, it can be both, if used as a contraceptive, it will prevent conception sometimes it can prevent implantation. It kills the growing fetus. However (again), it can also be pro-life, OCP specifically estrogen, progesterone and the like are used as treatment for reproductive diseases which if left untreated would eventually progress to cancer. There is always two sides of a story and so is RH bill, I think that in deciding whether to support the bill or not, one should be open-minded enough to consider both the advantages and disadvantages it brings.
RH Bill is not only refers to an issue of population, morality and poverty but more on issue of business. Who will benefit when this law has been passed, is it the Filipino or the Multi-National and Transnational Corporations selling those contraceptives medicine. Can you imagine how many condoms is $800M which granted by UN to DOH last year? That’s why they are distributing condoms on the streets. HIV and AIDS is not included in the top 10 killer diseases. Isa ito sa sinasabi nila na dapat pigilan para kumalat. Tuberculosis is no. 1 killer disease in our country, pero kapag tinanong mo kung me gamot na available sa mga Health Center, they will answer, WALA, pero condoms madami.
The Rh bill is not the solution to our problems. There are about 7 billion people in the world. If you put all of those people in the entire city of Los Angeles they would fit. This proves that we have the resources that we need. In fact we have more.
All we need is to properly manage these resources that we have. Ang Kailangan natin ay kaayusan.
can we do it first thing first. i think there are already enough laws pertaining to human rights, what’s lacking is the right law how to implement it.Rh bill should really for the married persons.If you are married you should be responsible enough, period.because of the scarcity of our resources we should focus on how to stop corruption and wasting of our precious resources.we need lawmakers who are not law breakers. let’s use our resources- talents, wisdom, time, materials,arguments, debates, on how to get rid of unlawful law makers.they are the evils of this society.
they are living like kings and queens but the people paying their salaries and being robbed of their taxes are poor and living hand to mouth many are denied of the basic services.if our law makers are honest and law abiding then all laws and implementing guidelines are people oriented then everything will be in proper perspective. simple lang di ga.God is really so good and merciful. Sana dumating ang time na hindi na kailangan magsuicide ang isang government personnel or retired government personnel kapag nainvolved siya o nagamit sa corruption, magresign na lang sya to give chance to others who are good and sincere in giving good services. MARAMI PANG MATITINONG PILIPINO NA MAY PAGMAMAHAL SA DIYOS, SA PAMILYA AT SA SARILI NILA. GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME…. we may not be materially richer than the corrupt but still alive and kicking without guilt of robbing our brothers and sisters of their supposed good highways,pleasant to ride mrt & lrt- siksikang parang sardinas hindi naman libre,….you can name many more good services that we deserve. Let’s use our effort and time to this.. marami tayong magagawa kung gusto natin. let’s start by not corrupting our neighbors, friends, associates, errands, workplace..like fire it will spread and eventually not putting corrupt officials in government.NOW IS THE TIME…
I think R.H bill rigth.sabi kasi sa bible “Humayo kayo at mag pakarami” pero may kasunod pa yun. “At inyong supilin” kaya para sa akin ok lang paraan narin ng dios siguro ang pag papatupad ng R.H bill.
I am FOR the RH Bill, but I don’t condemn those who are against it. I understand that each and everyone of us is entitled to our own opinion.
The point I see here is that it is not practical anymore to be too dogmatic and overly strict when it comes to Church teachings. I am Catholic and I believe in the ways of our religion, but sometimes we have to prioritize the “real life”. For me, life matters — not only its mere existence, but also its quality. It’s not enough that we let live. We should also HELP them live. It sucks to see very young children running around the streets without slippers. Those who beg because their parents can’t afford to buy them anything to eat. It’s just heartbreaking. If the non-believers of the RH Bill can suggest ways to improve the living of the people and control overpopulation, then maybe a compromise could work. Another thing, abortion.. I think we shouldn’t make it an issue here. With or without contraceptives, there is abortion. But preventing pregnancy is not abortion since there is no life to be killed to start with. It prevents conception from happening. These are desperate measures that the officials of the government think should be taken. Let’s face it. We can’t stop people from having sex even if they’re not married. It’s a fact already.
Again, I would respect those who would disagree with me.
I’m just sharing my point of view.
this is untrue – condoms are not distributed in public health centers. president arroyo stopped this practice. anti-tb meds are available for free at public health centers.
Pagdating sa pagbili, hindi lang ang pagiging lantad ang pagkakaiba; the Bill would not only make it socially acceptable but it would even promote and praise its practice as if it is a courageous act. Pero bukod doon, mababawasan ang mga dating customer ng tindahan ng condoms at pills dahil ang gobyerno na mismo ang direktang bibili nito mula sa mga supplier (actually, ginagawa na ito mula pa noong panahon ni Marcos) sa mas malakihang bilang. Ang totoo, gusto sana ng DOH na P400 million ang budget ngayong taon para sa contraceptives pero binawasan ito ng Kongreso. P400 million para sa sex na walang responsibilidad? Mahusay, di ba?
Sa madaling salita, aagawin ng gobyerno mula sa bibig ng mahihirap ang pagkain o kabuhayan na magmumula sana sa buwis ng mga mamamayan para pagbigyan ang hinihingi ng tawag ng laman.
Kung yan ang sitwasyon ngayon, ilang bilyon ang magiging pondo taon-taon para sa sex? Bukod pa doon ang magiging budget sa tinatawag nilang “edukasyon” na may kinalaman pa rin sa sex. Hindi ito usaping nagmula lang sa Pilipinas, ito ay isang pangmundong kasunduan, at walang magawa ang mga duwag na politiko kundi sumunod dito — habang ang iba naman sa kanila ay nakikinabang.
Catholic Church is suck!!!
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”
that’s yours.. take it..
and hey, guess you’re going through something.. get yourself healed.. ^^
on your knees.. =p
You are actually saying that the Catholic Church is the Church of Christ but at the same time, its teachings are not always practical, thus implying that its not always from God (or worse, that God is not always right), and it does not address the “real life”. You cannot serve two masters.
You say you believe the Catholic Church but it appears that you don’t know its teachings. You are implying that what concerns the Church is to multiply the existence of human individuals and just ignore their material needs. On the contrary, it is the Church who was and is always first to promote human life and dignity. I suggest that all Catholics should read the “Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church” and all its social documents. It is also wise to research first about the contribution of the Church on the world’s civilization. It makes me wonder why a news about a priest or a Catholic group or institution providing livelihood for the poor just passes many people’s ears. In reality, the Church (through its priests and lay members) works for 2000 years all over the world toward the development of human condition behind the news broadcasts. One may want to research about the contributions of Gawad Kalinga and of Caritas, and of many other of course.
Please take time to read this letter from our church leaders….very self explanatory…very true and very thoughtfully safeguard our interest as a nation and as children of God.
Our Filipino Brothers and Sisters:
The State values the dignity of every human person and guarantees full respect for human rights (Art. II, Section 11). The State recognizes the sanctity of family life and shall protect and strengthen the family as a basic autonomous social institution. It shall equally protect the life of the mother and the life of the unborn from conception (Art. II, Section 12).
Background
We begin by citing the Philippine Constitution. We do so because we intend to write you on the basis of the fundamental ideals and aspirations of the Filipino people and not on the basis of specifically Catholic religious teachings.
We are at a crossroads as a nation. Before us are several versions of a proposed bill, the Reproductive Health bill or sanitized as a Responsible Parenthood bill. This proposed bill in all its versions calls us to make a moral choice: to choose life or to choose death.
At the outset we thank the government for affording us an opportunity to express our views in friendly dialogue. Sadly our dialogue has simply revealed how far apart our respective positions are. Therefore, instead of building false hopes, we wish at the present time to draw up clearly what we object to and what we stand for.
Moral Choices at the Crossroads — at EDSA I and Now
Twenty five years ago in 1986 we Catholic Bishops made a prophetic moral judgment on political leadership. With this prophetic declaration we believe that we somehow significantly helped open the door for EDSA I and a window of political integrity.
Today we come to a new national crossroads and we now have to make a similar moral choice. Our President rallied the country with the election cry, “Kung walang corrupt walang mahirap.” As religious leaders we believe that there is a greater form of corruption, namely, moral corruption which is really the root of all corruption. On the present issue, it would be morally corrupt to disregard the moral implications of the RH bill.
This is our unanimous collective moral judgment: We strongly reject the RH bill.
Commonly Shared Human and Cultural Values – Two Fundamental Principles
Far from being simply a Catholic issue, the RH bill is a major attack on authentic human values and on Filipino cultural values regarding human life that all of us have cherished since time immemorial.
Simply stated the RH Bill does not respect moral sense that is central to Filipino cultures. It is the product of the spirit of this world, a secularist, materialistic spirit that considers morality as a set of teachings from which one can choose, according to the spirit of the age. Some it accepts, others it does not accept. Unfortunately, we see the subtle spread of this post-modern spirit in our own Filipino society.
Our position stands firmly on two of the core principles commonly shared by all who believe in God:
(1) Human life is the most sacred physical gift with which God, the author of life, endows a human being. Placing artificial obstacles to prevent human life from being formed and being born most certainly contradicts this fundamental truth of human life. In the light of the widespread influence of the post-modern spirit in our world, we consider this position as nothing less than prophetic. As religious leaders we must proclaim this truth fearlessly in season and out of season.
(2) It is parents, cooperating with God, who bring children into the world. It is also they who have the primary inalienable right and responsibility to nurture them, care for them, and educate them that they might grow as mature persons according to the will of the Creator.
What We Specifically Object to in the RH Bill
Advocates contend that the RH bill promotes reproductive health. The RH Bill certainly does not. It does not protect the health of the sacred human life that is being formed or born. The very name “contraceptive” already reveals the anti-life nature of the means that the RH bill promotes. These artificial means are fatal to human life, either preventing it from fruition or actually destroying it. Moreover, scientists have known for a long time that contraceptives may cause cancer. Contraceptives are hazardous to a woman’s health.
Advocates also say that the RH bill will reduce abortion rates. But many scientific analysts themselves wonder why prevalent contraceptive use sometimes raises the abortion rate. In truth, contraceptives provide a false sense of security that takes away the inhibition to sexual activity. Scientists have noted numerous cases of contraceptive failure. Abortion is resorted to, an act that all religious traditions would judge as sinful. “Safe sex” to diminish abortion rate is false propaganda.
Advocates moreover say that the RH bill will prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS. This goes against the grain of many available scientific data. In some countries where condom use is prevalent, HIV/ AIDS continues to spread. Condoms provide a false security that strongly entices individuals towards increased sexual activity, increasing likewise the incidence of HIV/AIDS. “Safe sex” to prevent HIV /AIDS is false propaganda.
Advocates also assert that the RH Bill empowers women with ownership of their own bodies. This is in line with the post-modern spirit declaring that women have power over their own bodies without the dictation of any religion. How misguided this so-called “new truth” is! For, indeed, as created by God our bodies are given to us to keep and nourish. We are stewards of our own bodies and we must follow God’s will on this matter according to an informed and right conscience. Such a conscience must certainly be enlightened and guided by religious and moral teachings provided by various religious and cultural traditions regarding the fundamental dignity and worth of human life.
Advocates also say that the RH bill is necessary to stop overpopulation and to escape from poverty. Our own government statistical office has concluded that there is no overpopulation in the Philippines but only the over-concentration of population in a number of urban centers. Despite other findings to the contrary, we must also consider the findings of a significant group of renowned economic scholars, including economic Nobel laureates, who have found no direct correlation between population and poverty.
In fact, many Filipino scholars have concluded that population is not the cause of our poverty. The causes of our poverty are: flawed philosophies of development, misguided economic policies, greed, corruption, social inequities, lack of access to education, poor economic and social services, poor infrastructures, etc. World organizations estimate that in our country more than P400 billion pesos are lost yearly to corruption. The conclusion is unavoidable: for our country to escape from poverty, we have to address the real causes of poverty and not population.
In the light of the above, we express our clear objections:
1. We object to the non-consideration of moral principles, the bedrock of law, in legislative discussions of bills that are intended for the good of individuals and for the common good.
2. We are against the anti-life, anti-natal and contraceptive mentality that is reflected in media and in some proposed legislative bills.
3. We object strongly to efforts at railroading the passage of the RH bill.
4. We denounce the over-all trajectory of the RH bill towards population control.
5. We denounce the use of public funds for contraceptives and sterilization.
6. We condemn compulsory sex education that would effectively let parents abdicate their primary role of educating their own children, especially in an area of life – sexuality – which is a sacred gift of God.
What We Stand For
On this matter of proposed RH bills, these are our firm convictions:
1. We are deeply concerned about the plight of the many poor, especially of suffering women, who are struggling for a better life and who must seek it outside of our country, or have recourse to a livelihood less than decent.
2. We are pro-life. We must defend human life from the moment of conception or fertilization up to its natural end.
3. We believe in the responsible and natural regulation of births through Natural Family Planning for which character building is necessary which involves sacrifice, discipline and respect for the dignity of the spouse.
4. We believe that we are only stewards of our own bodies. Responsibility over our own bodies must follow the will of God who speaks to us through conscience.
5. We hold that on the choices related to the RH bill, conscience must not only be informed but most of all rightly guided through the teachings of one’s faith.
6. We believe in the freedom of religion and the right of conscientious objection in matters that are contrary to one’s faith. The sanctions and penalties embodied in the proposed RH bill are one more reason for us to denounce it.
Our Calls
As religious leaders we have deeply and prayerfully reflected on this burning issue. We have unanimously made the moral judgment – to reject the RH agenda and to choose life.
1. We call for a fundamental transformation of our attitudes and behavior towards all human life especially the most defenseless, namely, human life being formed or being conceived. The cheapness with which many seem to consider human life is a great bane to our religious-oriented nation.
2. We call upon our legislators to consider the RH bill in the light of the God-given dignity and worth of human life and, therefore, to shelve it completely as contrary to our ideals and aspirations as a people. We thank our legislators who have filed bills to defend human life from the moment of conception and call upon all other legislators to join their ranks.
3. We thank the great multitude of lay people all over the country, and particularly the dedicated groups who made their presence felt in the halls of Congress, to defend and promote our position. We call upon other lay people and adherents of other religions to join the advocacy to defend and promote our commonly shared ideals and aspirations.
4. We call on our government to address effectively the real causes of poverty such as corruption, lack of social and economic services, lack of access to education and the benefits of development, social inequities.
5. We call for the establishment of more hospitals and clinics in the rural areas, the deployment of more health personnel to provide more access to health services, the building of more schools, the provision of more aid to the poor for education, and the building of more and better infrastructures necessary for development.
6. We echo the challenge we prophetically uttered 25 years ago at EDSA I and call upon all people of good will who share our conviction: “…let us pray together, reason together, decide together, act together, always to the end that the truth prevail” over the many threats to human life and to our shared human and cultural values.
We commend our efforts against the RH bill (or the Responsible Parenthood bill – its new name) to the blessing of our almighty and loving God, from whom all life comes and for whom it is destined.
For the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines.
+NEREO P. ODCHIMAR, D.D.
Bishop of Tandag
President, CBCP
January 30, 2011
this has been posted in this blog, click here: https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/2011/02/06/catholic-churches-nationwide-read-cbcp-statement-on-rh-bill-in-todays-homily/
there are many misconceptions and many misinterpretations on both parties that’s why it is so confusing for some to decide on which side they would agree and support:(
The RH Bill is anything but MORAL. It is decidedly ANTI-CATHOLIC therefore ANTI-LIFE.Let’s make things easy CATHOLICS and Non-Catholics alike: However legal(or made legal) a body of belief is, so long as IT ISN’T GOD’S WILL, it isn’t RIGHT. This RH Bill does not follow God’s Divine Law.
Mga tanga pala kayo. Lumalaki na ang populasyon ng buong mundo lalo na sa mahihirap na bansa kagaya ng Pilipinas. Karamihan naman sa mga tao sa atin ay walang disiplina. Mga tao sa skwater 10 anak kahit alam na hindi kayang suportahan. Dapat lang ipasa itong RH Bill na ito. Pag-laki ng populasyon paglaki ng demand sa resources at trabaho. Kaya maraming naghihirap sa pilipinas ay gawa rin ng mataas na populasyon. Walang trabaho mga tao, walang makain, mataas ang competisyon sa buhay kaya common sense lang. Lagi kayong sunod sa bibliya kaya nga tayo binigyan ng diyos ng utak para mag-isip at resolbahin ang ating mga problema. Mga tangang pari mga tangang tao gusto nyo pang maging kagaya natin ang sitwasyon ng India. Tapos galit kayo sa western world panay naman ingles nyo mga Pilipino rin naman nag uusap at nagbabasa ng article na to english pa salita nyo, pag umasa tayo sa ingles para nyo na ring sinabi na asa tayo sa mag english speaking countries. Bakit hindi natin gawin popular ang Tagalog kagaya ng ginawa ng mga Ninuno ng mga taga Inglatera at Estados Unidos.
putek! “mga tanga pala kayo eh” bobo! sinong pinaparatangan mo niyan? mga pilipino? eh pilipino ka rin eh! ano sa tingin mo ang dahilan ng paglaki ng populasyon sa Pilipinas? hindi ba’t dahil ito sa hindi nila kayang kontrolin ang sarili nila na gawin ang kagustuhan nila? ikaw na rin ang nagsabi na karamihan sa mga tao ay walang disiplina. kung gayon ay dapat nilang alamin ang limitasyon nila. hindi dapat dumepende na lang sa mga contraceptives. hindi naman dahil lang sa paglaki ng populasyon sa pilipinas ang dahilan kung bakit maraming naghihirap eh. kulang sila sa edukasyon. may mga ibang matalino nga ngunit saan naman nila ginagamit ang katalinuhan nila? “many individuals have knowledge but have little wisdom” at sa tingin mo ba, kung hindi namin susundin ang bibliya ay ngaing tama ang pagtahak namin sa landas ng buhay? kung wala ang Panginoon, makukuha mo ba ang “katalinuhan” na iyong sinasabi? bakit mo iuuna ang kagustuhan mo kaysa sa pagsunod sa turo ng Diyos? binigyan tayo ng Diyos ng katalinuhan upang malaman natin ang TAMA sa MALI. kailan pa naging tama ang pagsabi ng “mga tangang pari mga tangang tao”? hindi ka tao! walang tangang tao! isa kang tanga!
PEOPLE WHY DON’T YOU WATCH THIS LINK BEFORE YOU DECIDE ON RH BILL..
Support what you want, but first educate yourself.
watch this: EndGame HQ full length version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho
Thanks for sharing this video. This is indeed true that there is a plan ever since to control this world. Of course Satan is the master of all these things. He uses the influential, intelligent and powerful personalities to execute his plan. They are the so-called secret societies composed of these individuals who want to take control of world in their hands.
One of their agenda is to reduce the population by 80%. They incite wars and funds it by themselves, invent and spread man made diseases and in turn invent vaccines in which they put a small amount of substance to shorten ones life, they promote contraception, abortion, euthanasia, etc.
The plan is to build a One World Government and a One World Religion to be reign by Satan of course the Anti-Christ himself. The UN, IMF, World Bank among others are steps to this plan.
Satan counters everything from God. Just as there is One God in the form of the Most Holy Trinity, there are also 3 forms of Anti Christ as written in the Bible. He unleashes this weapon to execute his plans.
The Huge Red Dragon
Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.
The Beast like a Leopard
Rev 13:1-2 And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.
The Beast like a Lamb
Rev 13:1-2 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
The task of the first form of anti-Christ (Red Dragon) is to seduce all nations of denial or obstinate rejection of God. This is to disobey God’s commandments and let people live not knowing or rejecting the existence of God. He wants our action and decision based on ourselves alone not consulting and acknowledging the very presence of God. This form of anti-Christ is the Atheistic Communism.
The second form as written in the Bible acts in the shadow of the first anti-Christ to hide himself so he can enter everywhere. The aim of this second anti-Christ is not to deny God but to blaspheme Him. To destroy, disobey and counters His commandments. They are the so-called secret societies composed of elite individuals. They control diff sectors of society: banking, agriculture, education, military, health, transportation and mass media, etc, etc. The results: pornography, homosexuality, war, high taxes, corruption, abortion, divorce, contraception, kidnapping, prostitution, alcohol, cigarette and drug addiction, mercy killing, pre marital sex, etc, etc. They want man to disobey Gods commandment and offend Him.
The third anti-Christ is described as Beast like a Lamb. It hides in a form of lamb but acts like a leopard. They are the ecclesiastical persons which are members of these secret societies. The task of the third anti-Christ is to destroy the Church and its people; to spread heresy and errors; to established false ecumenism, accepting all Christian Churches asserting that each one of them asserts truth; to destroy Church unity, to destroy the very foundation of the faith. No wonder why many people now do not practice their faith, do not know their faith, do not believe their faith and the Church is being attacked right now.
I am just concern that’s why I also shared this to you. SATAN IS VERY ACTIVE NOW. HIS ALLIES ARE EVERYWHERE. YOU MUST BE AWARE OF THEIR PRESENCE AS THEY TRY TO HIDE THEMSELVES ENTERING EVERYWHERE AND DECEIVING PEOPLE.
It is our Mother Mary who reveals this information and not just plain interpretation and opinion of the others on the Revelation part of the Scripture. Truly heaven intervenes and helps whose hearts are open.
pari ka ata Jilcute eh… I heard this before.. almost 6 years ago. I atended a seminar by the prolifers headed by Dr. Bulicer.(i guess).. God bless him.
… find it hard to believe but if there is one entity ever driven to pursue human destruction CONSISTENTLY, he would be nothing but the shaitan.
Based on what I’ve read,I am in favor of this bill. It is because I can see that this bill can help a lot of women against diseases. And not just that, it will open the mind of the people about the current issues about family planning, and it can help them to decide wisely about bringing up a family. It is essential also to the poor because no hospitals can denied them during labor. And the issue of contraceptives, even without the bill, there are still a lot of people using it,so why restrict it if presently a lot are using it. In the issue of Sex Education, I think it’s just fine to teach it to the high school students because it can help them become aware of the things happening in the society and this will become their weapon so that they can avoid these things like premarital sex. I don’t believe that it would trigger or stimulate the student. For me, it would open the mind of the students and help them avoid it.
Based on what you’ve read? Where?
The Bill cannot help any woman against diseases because RH Bill is a population-control bill and not a health-promotion bill. Its main purpose is to control the number of Filipino people. Moreover, OCPs and IUDs are responsible for many risks and bad side effects, and is far from being “helpful”.
You said it would open the mind of the people; but in reality, it closes the mind of those who believe it. Contraception is far from being “responsible”. It promotes pleasure-seeking void of responsibility. It replaces self-control with self-indulgence. It encourages hedonism as a lifestyle. Open-mindedness is not to the same with moral laxity.
The Bill “promotes” contraception and it’s not what you call helping to make wise decisions. Its method is not educational but promotional. Besides, it does not present the issue in a balance manner; it rather distorts it. Calling artificial contraceptives, for example, as “modern methods” is an attempt to downplay the natural family planning method as if it is “old”, “obsolete”, and “unreliable” as pro-RH people always call it. Actually, the concept of IUDs, barrier methods, and OCs are even older than Christianity. BOM, on the other hand, is relatively new, effective, and does not violate anything or anyone; and yet, the Bill does not give any emphasis on it. It is the opposite that it does.
This Bill claims to be a hero of the poor in that it will oblige hospitals to accept patients even if they have no cash on hand. In reality, such a law already exists. To include that in the Bill is at its best, redundancy; at its worst, an attempt to play hero to hide something.
Another great lie that RH propagandists almost successfully made many to believe is that the Bill would “lift the restriction” on the use of contraceptives. This restriction is nonexistent. You can buy and use as much condoms and as much pills as you want and nobody would put you in jail nor file a legal case against you. The Bill is all about “BUDGET”. It would oblige taxpayers, regardless of the grave violation of their conscience, to pay for the pleasure of those who want the delight of sex but refuse to assume any responsibility. In short, you will work hard and give your money to the government so that it can “serve” penises and vaginae.
Sex education in school, as proposed by the Bill, is a grave violation of the natural and constitutional rights of the parents. Furthermore, the school teachers would shape a contraceptive mentality in every student which is a counterpart of the mentality that says, “Cheating, stealing, and lying are evil if you were caught.” Similarly, “premarital sex is blameworthy if someone gets pregnant.” Is it commonsensical that school teachers would offer an irresistible candy to the students and then tell them that it is better if they would not eat it?
Please watch these two videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/YBNdMZBqZiw
all this did is demonize the proponents of the RH Bill without presenting any argument intelligent or unintelligent, nor factual against the RH Bill. all it did is peddle accusations and unsupported innuendos against proponents of the RH Bill and mass media. this is not going to help in persuading others to go against the RH BIll, it will have the opposite effect.
Yes. It will not help unless they turn themselves to prayer for enlightenment. God will not disappoint you if you really wants the truth.
Prayer nourishes ones soul as food nourishes ones body. The more you are prayerful the more you nourish your soul. If you are poor in prayer then you have a poor soul. If you have a poor soul, you will get sick like as when your body is malnourished which cannot withstand the attacks of the disease and virus that will destroy it. Just as when a soul is poor then it cannot withstand the attacks by the enemy. You will not even acknowledge him.
Pray, pray and pray God will not disappoint you if you really will seek wisdom and enlightenment. You will discover how active is Satan on earth today that many cannot see him as he hides in a camouflage.
The soul is important than our body as our body will eventually stay on earth and your soul will live for eternity.
Ask GOD He knows all. Our knowledge is very limited and is our body is very weak. Let not your body dictates your soul but your soul to dictate what our body will do.
a large majority of catholics in the philippines support the RH Bill. it tells you just how misplaced and out of tune the catholic church is on the issue. on this one the catholic church has become irrelevant.
Yes I agree. Many Catholics are out of tune as Satan tries to destroy Christ Church. It is written in the Cathecism of the Catholic Church that this will happen:
CCC 675:
“Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.”
Many had denied, become lukewarm and doesnt know their faith at these times. Satan is already marking his “666” sign on forehead and right hand of many people today making them under his authority.
Rev 13:16 “He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead”
Rev 14:9-10 “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.”
Cathecism of the Catholic Church 677
“The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through the Final Passover, then she will follow the death of her Lord in His death and resurrection”
Is there any Church here in the world tells that their Church will eventually die? Catholic Church only mentioned this. It will eventually die as evil tries to destroy it but as Christ die and ressurected, the same will happen with His Church.
THIS IS HOW THEY WANT TO BRAINWASH OUR CHILDREN.. THEY WILL BE USING THE EDUCATONAL SYSTEM ( MANDATORY SEX EDUCATION ) TO MAKE CONTRACEPTION ACCEPTABLE TO YOUNG CHILDREN. SO THAT WHEN THEY GROW OLDER, THE CONTRACEPTIVE INDUSTRY WILL HAVE A MARKET FOR THEIR PRODUCTS.
READ ON……
http://asiapacific.endpoverty2015.org/presscentre/whatsnew/philippines-adopts-us-designed-family-planning-promotion-plan
Please watch:
Please watch this:
and this:
Are you actually promoting this kind of video responses; or you just don’t understand what he is trying to say? I guess both. When did it start to become acceptable expressing opinions in a very uneducated, unethical, uncivilized, bad-breath, and self-centered way? I can’t remember it happened. At the very onset, this man is a foul-odored being whose opinions are not worth hearing simply because he breathes rubbish. And here a Filipino is actually praising it? Can’t believe we’ve gone this far. We don’t even have to be a kindergarten graduate to see the point.
There’s nothing new with the video. An atheist is the one who made this, a follower of an Anti-Christ who seeks to destroy the Church marking them with his sign. In fact not only Atheists are the one who attacks and destroys the Catholic Church. There are many allies of Satan: the Communist, Socialists, Feminist, Liberalist, Modernist, Relativist, Progressives, Agnostics, the different forms of Protestantism, the various sects, etc, etc. even the people within the Catholic Church itself who didn’t believe and practice its teachings making way for its destruction.
The prophecy has to be fulfilled and woe to those who follow the Anti-Christ. Ahhh… they don’t care because they don’t believe in God and there is even no Satan, or they don’t believe in the existence of hell, or they believe that God will not punished them to hell forever, or they believe that they will still live long life and have enough time to change, or they believe that they are saved already and therefore can still commit sin even the gravest one.
Unless they repent and converted, they may not obtain the mercy of God. But how can people of today repent since they don’t acknowledge their sins anymore. Sin before is not sin today anymore or they believe that what is sin is, is not a really a sin; or because many are doing this or acceptable now and legalized.
The Holy Scripture (the bible) says that a righteous man falls seven times a day. Those righteous men are those who lived saintly life or the saints themselves when they are on earth. Now I tell this, do we consider ourselves to be righteous? So we sinned more than seven times per day. Do we acknowledge what those sins are? Do we repent and confess?
2 Tim 3:1-4
“But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God”
1 Thessalonians 5:22 tell us to “Abstain from all appearance of evil.”
God is saying that we are to abstain not from only evil itself but even from that which would appear to be evil.
For those who do not believe the very existence of hell. How frightening was that day when you are in the place that you do not believed? It’s better to have a life here that is full of sacrifice, suffering, and misery but accepted and offered to God than to be punished in Hell for eternity. This is one of our problem, people of this time do not want to suffer and to sacrifice. They do not know the heavenly value of it. Don’t we know that our suffering and sacrifices can save us? It’s a way to repay and atone for our sin. Even Jesus sufferings and sacrifices were used by the Father to redeem us opening the doors of Heaven as dwelling place for us. People of today all want pleasures, conveniences and their false sense of security.
We know that our life here is temporary and this is not our home. Earth is just a vehicle to our final home in eternity (either Heaven or Hell). Many wants to be in Heaven of course, but are we doing our best to be worthy for heaven? When you are going for a trip to a country that you have not been before, you work for the requirements to be there, you study how people lived there. This is the same as Heaven: you must know what will take you to go to Heaven; you must know how the lives of souls, their virtues are there in Heaven so you can while here on earth you can practice how lived and their virtues while here on earth. God do not condemn a soul to Hell, it is a soul who condemns himself. Because that soul will not be comfortable in Heaven the way he lived here.
Holiness is not somebody’s call, it is our call.
Matthew 5:48 “Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect”
You’re arguments are ineffective. Not only atheists, Communist, Socialists, Feminist, Liberalist, Modernist, Relativist, Progressives etc are the ones who don’t believe in you bible.
There are buddhists, taoists, muslims, and others as well.
DO NOT IMPOSE your own belief system to others. We have the separation of the church and the state. NO RELIGION should be considered in making laws and its implementation.
So plus keep your faith to your self and tackle the arguments presented here instead.
The reason I love RH bill is it controls our population.
The fact that the church recommends 5 children per family is a proof that the church is not really against the method. The church is against population control itself. If natural method is as effective as artificial contraceptives, I bet the church won’t support it too.
Are we overpopulated?
An immediate answer from those who are against RH bill is a resounding no. They’re probably right when we talk about land area. But that’s not the issue.
Our economy cannot sustain such rapid growth of our population. The church has been telling us “ang problema ay hindi ang bilang, ang problema ay walang trabaho”. I think they’re wrong. We don’t have unlimited jobs to give. We only have limited investors and resources. Even if have enough, sooner or later we would run out of investors if we continue overpopulating rapidly. The end result is the oversupply of man power. And as the law of supply and demand states, increased in man power will result in depreciation of its value, hence low compensation. Eventually it will give our nation a wider gap between the rich and the poor.
Balance is the key. Population growth should always be in the same level as the growth of our economy.
not the population should we focus to, we should be focus to our development resources.
Nope, you cannot focus on the development of resources without investors. You have to wait for the economy to grow before you gain investors to get on those resource in use. We don’t have unlimited investors. That’s why population growth must be within the level of economic growth.
Without investors, we cannot give enough jobs. No matter how many investors we have, we would simply run out of investors if we continue on giving births like rats.
And besides, we are talking about population control here and not just about the effects of OCPs. Whatever “good” side effects the Pill has, it is off the table. RH Bill wants a regular great supply of contraceptives to control the population and not to use its “good” side effects. And yes, the bad effects of contraceptives are so enormous that it would dwarf the other side.
To those who blame the population for the poverty of the country, and to those whose motto is, “God has given us a brain so that we can think,” let Robert Kiyosaki educate you about population, poverty, and wealth:
“One dad said, ‘The reason I’m not rich is because I have you kids.’ The other said, ‘The reason I must be rich is because I have you kids.'”
Do you choose to be a Rich Dad or a Poor Dad? Those who promote this Bill are Poor Dads indeed.
You didn’t get it quite well did you?
Haven’t you learned the law of supply and demand on your high school? Simply put, too much supply of man power in the workforce will result to lower salary, tough competition, under employment and even unemployment.
So let’s create jobs then! Right! But we have limited investors! You cannot create jobs without needing them to pay their salaries or you will be promoting slavery! Therefore we really need to wait for the economy to grow because we grow our population. Population must be controlled to the level that our economy can support.
What are you doing for a living? Are you a nurse? You should have realized that early on.
Wake up people. This is really basic. Lahat ng sobra ay masama.
Your faith doesn’t give you right to tell what’s best for our economy. Think critically. Get out of your delusions. This is what I hate about the faiths, they are disgrace to humanity. They don’t have the capacity to think but just believe.
errata:
Therefore we really need to wait for the economy to grow *before* we grow our population.
Sorry for you for missing your whole life. You are hating the very thing that you should desire and love.
Without their faith, what would be the contribution of Nicholas Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Johannes Kepler, Galileo Galilei, Rene Descartes, Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Michael Faraday, Gregor Mendel, William Thomson Kelvin, Max Planck, Albert Einstein, and other great scientists in the world? Haven’t you heard what the “Father of the American Space Program” has to say about faith?
Unfortunately, traditional schools teach us how to be slaves and not masters — salary-dependent and not financially free. Haven’t you realized that we are not a welfare country, and that even if we are, we should take charge of our lives if we really want to be wealthy?
“People are always blaming circumstances for what they are. I don’t believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and, if they can’t find them, make them.” – George Bernard Shaw
Maybe you should watch this proof of the fact that we can only live truly if we “really” take charge of our lives and not blame it on the so-called scarcity.
How about the Law of Attraction, did they teach that in schools? The awareness of that Law made millions of “rags to riches” stories. And as an introduction for you, that Law requires faith.
Try learning from Jim Rohn, Zig Ziglar, Bob Proctor, Brian Tracy, Bo Sanchez, John Calub, and most especially Napoleon Hill who said, “What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve.”
This world is about “creation” and not “competition” (most people believe the opposite that is why most people are poor). Read “The Science of Getting Rich.” It is not true that we don’t have jobs in the country, it is just people are not ready to be wealthy. Yes, they want comfort but they are not willing to take the first step.
The suggestions here are for everybody. Don’t bark on the wrong tree. Take charge of your life — really take charge — and that means goodbye to the thinking that, “I am poor because the country is,” “I am poor because my parents are,” “I am poor because of lack of opportunity,” etc. Decide to be wealthy and you will be.
Vanilae, that is very inspiring video. Unfortunately I am familiar with that kind of scheme, the multi-level marketing scheme. You get rich by having a lot of down lines aka recruits. You get rich at the expense of others. This is the game of first comers wins. Down the line will be the losers.
It so happens that there are lots of desperate Filipinos who won’t think twice in getting into this disgusting scheme.
Multilevel marketing is designed to fail in the end. It doesn’t control the supply of its products. They will saturate the market after recruiting enough down lines and leave the down lines penniless.
I consider that a fluke (tsamba, swerte). And I don’t consider luck based economy to be a good model of an economy. That is not equality.
In other western countries you can get rich by simply doing what you do best at work. Being a simple employee should be enough. But we, from the third world countries, populated the world too much that such model won’t work anymore.
In order to achieve this, we should control the population and end the scarcity.
Gary Norman? Just how many Filipinos are like him compare to the number of Filipinos living in poverty? Reality check.
Fortunately, I understand MLM far better than you do. Your description of it is far from being true. Harvard is teaching MLM, although I don’t need to mention that because the concept is as simple as giving incentives to a sari-sari store’s regular customer who happens to have friends whom he can introduce to the products and the program (by option). What you are describing is a model of an illegal business and not of a direct selling business. Besides, in this creative world, MLM is not just the answer — that is why it is creative.
It is also not always true that “you can get rich by simply doing what you do best at work”. You must read “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” and find something that would support your claim. Most US citizens, for example, depends on the government until they die even if they are employed. Their reproductive health policies cannot help them.
3–
And why did you assume I haven’t read Robert Kiosaki’s Rich Dad Poor Dad? Because I don’t share the same belief as his?
MLM being taught in Hardvard? I don’t think so. www_mlmwatch_org/01General/mlmlies_html (replace underscores with dot)
It is you who don’t understand what MLM is. Do you know that MLM’s basic game mechanics is to make recruits a distributor too by the promise of making them rich? It is the game of whoever to join early wins. Now, what happens to the lowest downlines? They are the losers of that system. Even if they intend just to sell the market has already been saturated before then. Don’t you dare tell me they should have downlines too to become rich. That’s B S. If I am wrong then all MLM members should have become like Gary Norman. Not everyone can be a seller of the same products. Market has limited demands and I don’t think you realize that. MLM is like an open faucet without any control to how much supply they should supply and how much distributor is enough. Eventually the late joiners will be left penniless. Products of MLM only sells by the promise of making you rich. It is too expensive without such promises. There’s no such free lunch.
Are you really suggesting that it is OK to overpopulate as long as we all join to this MLM scams? I don’t think that’s a good idea. –3
“Do you know that MLM’s basic game mechanics is to make recruits a distributor too by the promise of making them rich?”
MLM cannot make you rich; it would help you, though. You alone can make you rich. An Avon dealer recruits someone to be a dealer — that is networking. Avon business can help you become rich but it would not “make” you rich.
A true MLM is a direct selling business. You can be a part of the marketing plan in two ways: you sell and/or you recruit. An Avon dealer can sell without recruiting. As far as I know, the company is over 20 years now but the number of dealers are still counting, and so are the consumers. It’s not necessarily true that those who started first are wealthier than the rest. Besides, there is no such thing as “lowest downlines”.
The market has been saturated? We have many Avon dealers in our city, yes, but they don’t need to eat each other just to have sales.
“Don’t you dare tell me they should have downlines too to become rich.” Well, unfortunately (or fortunately), that’s how MLM works. It is the power of leveraging: the longer the stick, the lighter the rock will be, and the more efficient the work will be. MLM is not supposed to be a competition but a collaboration.
“If I am wrong then all MLM members should have become like Gary Norman.” First of, what’s about Gary Norman? I can’t remember posting about him (or maybe I got the wrong URL). What I intended to post is about JR Colina. Second, your conclusion is typical of those who don’t succeed in this business: “Kung totoo yan, e di sana marami nang sumali…e di sana mayaman na tayong lahat!” Unfortunately, success is a mindset. It just happened that only a chosen few have this mindset. Don’t you wonder why some people who used to wear rags are now surrounded with riches; and why some of those in the middle class went to the opposite fate?
You may not believe the tips from the rich people — it’s your choice — but the question will always be, “Why are they rich, and why most of us who have the same opportunities (or maybe more) are not?” The answer is, “They happened to know how to become one,” and not because they have only one or two siblings.
“Not everyone can be a seller of the same products.” But everyone (at least almost) can be a consumer of the same product. Think of Filipinos, and then think of rice, sugar, cooking oil — even cellphone. Will time come when we will not consume these anymore? There are MLM companies that give marketing benefits to end consumers (such as discounts) just by being a member. Of course, doing it as a business is a very much bigger plus.
“Market has limited demands.” Market has continuous demands. 1000 customers will not remain 1000. Prepaid cellphone users, for example, are rising in numbers and so the demand for prepaid load. If a prepaid load company has multilevel marketing, competition would be less, demands will rise, profits will rise without having to trample upon those who joined later. If I am a prepaid load consumer and being a member of a “load MLM” will give me discounts, that alone is profit on my part. Walang lugi! But since MLM gives me the opportunity to leverage, it would be up to me if I want to take advantage of the chance to be rich.
Being a last member of a good MLM business is relative. No one will be absolutely last, there will always be next in line. Actually, everyone in MLM was once last — it is true even in this world of ours. I was the last baby who was born before the next one after me came out.
“Products of MLM only sells by the promise of making you rich.” Wrong. Herbalife, DXN, and First Vita Plus products are being consumed even by those who are not doing the business. If I set up an MLM business which product is rice, nobody can say without being wrong that consumers buy my product just because I promised to make them rich.
“It is too expensive without such promises.” You just need to do a research to realize how much is the difference between manufactured products, distributed products, wholesale products, and retail products. I can manufacture an item with a P1 capital and sell it in a retail store for P20 or higher. That is because of the distributing processes and, of course…advertisement. Hundreds of millions of pesos for ads models, production and airing…where do you think they get that amount? From us. Who profits from the ads? Surely, not us. That is what’s really expensive! They advertise to our expense.
“Are you really suggesting that it is OK to overpopulate as long as we all join to this MLM scams?” First, to equate MLM with scams is ignorant. You do networking all your life without realizing it. At least, I know I do. I once recommended Biogesic to a relative, or Globe Broadband to a friend, or Xylogel or even a mall, a school, or an idea; and in their turn, they recommend it to others. The only difference is that I didn’t earn money through that networking. It’s not a scam, unless I deceived somebody for money.
Second, it is not okay to overpopulate — and it’s not even possible.
Third, just for the sake of argument, imagine that there are only 1000 Filipinos and all of them are members of an MLM. The first 100 has 10 direct referrals each while the rest are waiting. All of the 1000 are end consumers and have discounts. The first 100 is getting more benefits not just because they were first but because they worked (obviously, they have 10 members each). If those 900 did not join, they will not be downlines, they will not be “lasts”, but they will also not get discounts and equal opportunities. P30 load, for example, will remain P30 for them, while it is less 10% for members. And if NSO is right, then those 1000 Filipinos will not remain 1000. Some will die but more will be born. Eventually, the lasts will no longer be lasts.
Lastly, I recommend (without pay) this site: http://overpopulationisamyth.com.
Anyway, after all that has been said, I would repeat: MLM is not the hero of the day but, again, a good MLM business can help poor people become rich. In the end, it is still about mindset and attitude. Filipinos will not rise from its situation unless we change for the better.
Actually, the wrongest thing here is not misconception but misrepresentation — desperate contraceptive propaganda.
hey, in order for you to understand one another is to come up in one idea.
and that is to respect one another’s belief.
rh bill.. many of you here think that this bill is about abortion and pre-marital sex.. but if you actually read the content, you would realize that this is about, first and foremost, HEALTH.. of the mother, the child, the young teenager who is experiencing physical changes in his/her body.. it promotes giving freedom to the parents if they want to have children or not, and on how many they would want to have..
face it, it’s the 21st century, men and women have physical needs, it is not shameful to admit it.. would God give us this feelings if they are so sinful? rh bill would help educate young people how to understand these things, and how to control these needs til the appropriate age..
as for that someone, i forgot which one, who asked in their comments about contraceptives as medicine.. yes.. it is an essential medicine.. it cures hormonal imbalance for women.. balances the hormones so that women will have regular menstrual cycle, ensuring that when that woman decide to have a child, she will have more chance of a healthy pregnancy and less chances of miscarriage and death..
so, to those who let their closed-minds blind them.. open your eyes and understanding.. read and absorb before you judge this bill.. someday, this might be the answer to all your problems..
Let’s stop all the nagging and the giving of doctrines!!! Below is the list of pros and cons of the effect of RH Bill in our country. Add to which category you believe in. BE PRACTICAL AND EXCLUDE MORAL AND CHURCH DOCTRINES! Give only a one sentence statement and make sure the idea is not repeated from those who have added.
Quote and then add from the list of pros and cons. To start:
RH Bill:
Pros:
(1) Controls population increase because it avoids pregnancy, etc
Cons:
(1) Unmarried couples, including minors, will be addicted to sex.
(2) Philippines will become more liberal.
(3) Increase risk of cancer of either or both sexes.
(4) The dignity of women degrades at an early age.
(1) Controls population increase because it avoids pregnancy, etc
That one item itself has a lot of advantages.
(a) Less expenses for the government
hey! i don’t want to put all my taxes for those people who can’t afford
to educate their children! that’s unfair! I don’t want my tax to be
spent because there are irresponsible parents who can’t control giving
births!
(b) Parents can now concentrate on a few children
(c) Welfare of the family will be greatly improved
(d) Improved work-life balance for the workers because lower population will
lessen the already tough competition here in the Philippines. Just ask
the nurses if you don’t believe me.
(e) Higher salary
(f) A lot more
Third world countries should be blamed for the poverty because they oversupplied the man power of the workforce resulting to very tough competition, unemployment, under employment and finally poverty. This is the basic law of supply and demand damn it!
And don’t you dare tell me we should be focusing on creating jobs. We can’t create infinite jobs! Investors are limited! You have to wait for the economy to grow before you can expect for job vacancies!
The bottom line is, the population growth must be leveled to the economic growth. The population must be controlled to the level that our economy can support for the welfare of everyone. Not because someone’s faith!
Wake up people.
you focus too much on population control and OCP. This is just one aspect of the bill. Have it ever occurred to you the impact of which to the health of mothers and women who suffer from reproductive disease? I am not just referring to STIs. These reproductive diseases also include congenital anomalies and cancer involving the reproductive system as well as maternal care. Population control is overrated as well as poverty.
This is ironic! You don’t want your taxes going to the education of other people’s children but RH Bill can do nothing about that. And most importantly, RH Bill is really about taxes going straight to contraceptives manufacturers, and yet you’re saying that you don’t want your tax to be spent because there are irresponsible parents!
Nope that is not ironic. I consider contraceptives as an investment. I am willing to spend my tax to lessen the tax spenders. The tax spenders are those people who are being born without their parent’s support. Those children who cannot be supported by their parents will be the tax eater of this country. Who will feed them? Who will educate them? Who will house them? Who? The government with my hard earned tax!
This is why I consider population control to lessen the tax spend on this irresponsible parenthood. I want my taxes to be spent on infrastructure and others for the betterment of the common good and not for those children of irresponsible parents.
Planned Parenthood is hoarding billions of tax dollars because the government “considers contraceptives as an investment.” And what happened after Americans became comfortable with contraceptives? The complete opposite of what they (US) and the Philippine version of RH Bill claimed — abortion was legalized. That’s one of the biggest American irony, and yet this Bill that we have came from America’s (PPF) draft.
You don’t have sufficient basis that turning RH Bill would lead to abortion bills. That’s two different issues that needs to be tackled separately. You are invoking what we call the Slipper Slope Fallacy. www_nizkor_org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope_html (replace underscores with dots)
I agree that overpopulation is the main problem. We’re overpopulated with corrupt govt officials from baranggay level up to the top. Hence we should control this overpopulation (scalawags, bwitre, sena-tong, tong-gressman atbp) which keep on preying on people’s taxes. Too much individualism, secularistic society focusing wholly on their personal gains, mainly because they don’t believe anymore in their religion and faith in God that one day, they will die bringing with them not even a single centavos in the life after (whether they believe in life after or not, that’s their choice and must ready to face it). Stand for the truth and fight for it.
Pls, don’t removed God in your daily living as your guide in doing good deeds.
God bless the Philippines, our beleaguered country.
God bless us all
Thanks for getting my point. However, do you know that most of, if not all, corrupt officials of the Philippines believe in a God and in fact most of them are Christians?
With all due respect, I don’t need a god to know what is right from wrong. What about you? Do you have to know a god to know that it is wrong to steal from others?
Being secular is not the same as being selfish. Secular only means freedom from influence of religion. You can be secular while being charitable. And again, I don’t think we need religion to know what is right from wrong. If we take religion to our government, we would be just fighting over which God are we going to follow, whose God are we going to please in making our laws and that will only provoke wars and intolerance. That will eventually divide the entire Filipinos something like Christians vs Muslims. And we don’t want that to happen.
I don’t think you got my points pal.
You’re right that most of, if not all corrupt officials are Christians
and believe in God. But even demon do as well!
Both of them however don’t “obey” God’s will, but rely on their will.
Me too, I don’t need small god you’re referring at. But I need
the living God to guide my conscience in doing His will. Most of the secular people follows these small gods – like pride, money, power, greed, lust, envy, anger, sloth and gluttony.
You need religion (or God) to guide you in distinguishing right from wrong. You’re living a dangerous life if you’re relying only on yourself in doing “what” you think is right or good without guidance. It’s like “lost command” soldiers living on his own with mission.
Unfortunately, this kind of philosophy are what some of the modern secularistic, individualistic and materialistic society are following! “Do it if you think this is right and will make you happy!” This is not freedom! It’s licentiousness!
I think you’re confusing the word religion from what actually it teaches or its context! It’s not imposing on others, but rather faithfully follow God with LOVE for God’s sake and love of neighbors that justice and love may reign everywhere.
If we take religion to our government and follow its precepts faithfully, then we’ll have a clean government, all will be filled with love and care for one another as what religion teaches us to do -> worship God alone; honor your father & mother; do not kill; do not commit adultery; do not steal; do not bear false witness against your neighbor; do not covet thy neighbor’s wife; do not covet thy neighbor’s goods.
I don’t see any problem with this Christian religion which will provoke war and intolerance or even divide the entire Filipinos? You’re talking about some extremist who are imposing their beliefs on others “by force!” which is contrary to the Christians teachings. We bring others to God with love and affection and not by sword!
Do you see any problems with this kind of religion? We need to be a “practicing Christian and not Christian by name or a Sunday Christian. We should bring God to our home, our work place and everywhere we go.
Hence, we need God and not the small gods! God love us specially those repenting sinners.
God bless us all and the Philippines
You said:
Me too, I don’t need small god you’re referring at. But I need the living God to guide my conscience in doing His will.
I say:
To me, I don’t need any god, dead or living, to know what is right from wrong. If you require a god, then I cannot do anything about that. But that’s a shame that you require one to know what is right from wrong.
You said:
Most of the secular people follows these small gods – like pride, money, power, greed, lust, envy, anger, sloth and gluttony.
I say:
Nope, as I said, being secular has nothing to do with greed and power. You can be secular while being charitable and no one can stop you from being charitable while being secular. Stop stereotyping. It’s saying priests are pedophile because a single priest is a pedophile when being a priest has nothing to do with being pedophile. You’re being judgemental, I thought Christians are not supposed to judge others but apparently you do.
You said:
You need religion (or God) to guide you in distinguishing right from wrong.
I say:
No, don’t need. And yet I know that it is wrong to steal from others. I believe in the common good, egalitarianism and equal opportunity and yet I don’t believe in any god. So do I need a god to know the right from wrong? No. Sorry if you don’t get that.
You said:
You’re living a dangerous life if you’re relying only on yourself in doing “what” you think is right or good without guidance.
I say:
Nope. I’m living a peaceful life right now. I don’t want to talk about the “guidance” your talking about, don’t force me to criticise the bible. Again, not everyone here shares the same belief as you. I thought you don’t want to impose your belief into others but what you’re doing right now is just that.
You said:
I don’t see any problem with this Christian religion which will provoke war and intolerance or even divide the entire Filipinos? You’re talking about some extremist who are imposing their beliefs on others “by force!” which is contrary to the Christians teachings. We bring others to God with love and affection and not by sword!
I say:
Are you sure you’re not imposing your belief into others? If that is the case then I don’t see your point being so against secular. Being secular is being neutral, without any influence from any religion. Being non-secular means you have to choose which god’s law to impose, the god of the bible or the god of allah and so on.
You said:
Hence, we need God and not the small gods! God love us specially those repenting sinners.
I say:
Again, I don’t need it to know the right from wrong.
Sorry if I don’t share your belief system. But you will be only dividing the entire Filipinos if you require god in the government. Remember your god is not the only god out there that others believe in.
You may be living at peace as what you’ve said, you may be healthy or have anything that you have right now to live but time will come that you would need to suffer. All that you have today will pass.
It will work for you not to believe in God or reject Him while you’re here on earth, but when you die it will not work for you anymore. When you die in your body and your soul comes out, you would know that you need God.
Not to believe in God is accepting Satan’s authority over you. Not to be believe in Satan is much like the same thing. Mark these words we tell to you, you will remember this when you die.
There’s no reason I should believe in everything you said, you have no proof. Sorry if I don’t believe in the bible if you’re a Christian. Sorry if I don’t believe in the quran if you’re a Muslim. And so on.
The same thing can be said to you by other people of the other faiths, you might be having a peaceful life but you’ll end up suffering for choosing the wrong god. So, we are just the same. You don’t believe in Allah, I don’t believe in Allah too. you don’t believe in Thor, so I am as well. There are thousands of gods out there to choose from. Our only difference is you believe in your god, I don’t believe in your god.
Such threats won’t work on me. Sorry for that.
No one can ever know what’s going to happen if you die.
Existence of god or satan is not proven. Existence of soul isn’t proven as well. So as your claims.
When you die, that’s all there is to it. Your memories and everything dies with your brain.
I don’t think it is wise to make such threats when anyone can do the same thing to you for not believe in their god.
<– Notices how far the discussion is already from the bill…
@test
Just wanted to say, that was an awesome argument and i believe that you've made your point. You are right, a lot of the people say they are not doing one thing yet they are actually doing it. Such as "we are not imposing our beliefs" but in all honesty, you are.
Have you guys ever heard of the power of suggestion? And psychological pressure?
Certainly everything is not one sided. Religion may unite people, but they divide those people among other secs.
Has it not come to the law maker's mind that the bill can still be changed?
well, most oral contraceptive pills have advantages yet they also have disadvantages.. yes, it does prevent conception…. and it also works as an abortificient.. and FYI.. it also causes different types of cancer, the only cancer it can prevent is ovarian cancer (if I’m not mistaken)… so choose from many versus one!!!so why use oral contraceptive pills if you can do it the natural way of family planning!!!!!!!!!!
it depends on the the type of contraceptive you’re using. Not all contraceptives have side effects. The problem with the natural method is its low success rate that’s why the church recommends it because it doesn’t work most of the time LOL 🙂 The Catholic Church is not against any method, it is against the population control itself. In fact, they suggest that the ideal family size is 5 children per family.
Tatlo nga lang ang hirap na bigyan ng magandang kinabukasan, lima pa. Maawa naman kayo sa isisilang nyong sanggol, hindi nila kayang tumanggi sa buhay na ibibigay nyo sa kanila panget man o maganda ang buhay na ibibigay nyo.
Well let me put my few points across. Before i start i am in favor of this bill, so thumb me down before you even read my post if your a secular christian and do not want to hear views of any one else. I hear these people saying the pill gives you cancer, prove it give me a link to a non biast website and show me, i do not think this is really true as most developed country give them out. Over population these people say your not so why is the Philippines the biggest inporter of rice in the entire world, when you compare yourself to the USA, Russia, Pakistan, India and not forgetting China compared to a very small country of the Philippines. You cant feed yourself already period. People also say this is a form of abortion, how can it be when contraceptives prevent the sperm hitting the ovary in the first place, there has not been any fertiliation for it to abort. It is PREVENTING the sperm reaching the ovary, unless you call a sperm already human, but you would sound stupid if you thought that. Lastly why are you allowing a religion decide what is best for your country when you have democratically voted in a Government to decide such matters. Why are you allowing a church to decide what is best for their people, where they voted in the last elections i do not think so. I lived in Spain for many years and there you can buy condoms from a vending machine outside a pharmacy, are you telling me that the Spanish are not as Catholic as you, no it just means they allow their Government to make the right decision for their people who they democratically voted in and not allow the church to make fundamental decision for them. The church only stands against this as they think they will have less money from future generations if there are less people born in the Philippines. How much does the church do for the local community, nothing in my area, how many people give each week to my local church 80% where does that money go to, the Vatican not the Philippines. I rest my case.
This video presentation shows one of the many reason why a great number of people support the Reproductive Health Bill. If you would go back to the top page and read again on the Bill, this pretty much explain why it is called Reproductive health bill or Responsible parenthood. Most of the arguments here focuses on Oral contraceptive use, whether it should be considered essential medicine, its side effects and etc, etc. This is Reproductive Health Bill people not Oral Contraceptive Pill Bill. The OCP argument does not even comprise half of the Bill’s purpose. This video is intended to present the reality regarding maternal death. The number of mothers who have died and may die due to complications related to pregnancy may not be significant enough to be part of the top 10 leading causes of mortality in our country but this fact should not be neglected.
we surely have to reevaluate our morality.. why have sex if you’re afraid of the subsequent responsibilities? only the ignorant would abort a child, only those who are blame-it-all in the world kind of person would do that.. why would go into sex to people you do not know and pleasurably accept the invitation if you’re afraid to have STD and AIDS even? would you prefer to risk your health over pleasure? get a wife.get a husband. start a family. be responsible enough to know when to stops.
RH Bill is not about abortion FYI.
There’s nothing wrong with having sex for pleasure. Do not impose your standard of morality to others because not everyone believes in your sense of morality. As long as the person is not doing any harm to anyone, that should be no problem. We can only agree with the common good. As to what we should do to our lives, that is none of your concern. If we want to have sex all day long, that’s none of your business. All we care is for all people to have a choice of having sex without getting pregnant. We want to have a choice when to have a child and how many children we should have. If you think that is immoral then that’s just your belief system and your belief system is not our concern or the government’s concern. Keep your belief system to yourself and we will be no problem keeping this country a better place to live.
Again we can only agree in the common good such as the golden rule. In other things such as having sex, let’s just agree to disagree about it. If you don’t want sex then don’t have sex but don’t prevent others from doing it. That’s the bottom line.
I hope you undertand.
Remember… (a guide for RH bill pros or cons)
You have but one life to live which does not end in the grave;
You have but one goal to achieve –
a happy eternity for your soul which you must save.
Your eternity is what you make –
a woeful hell or heavenly bliss;
Take care then of the road you take and be sure it leads
to heavenly peace.
Life is precious as well as the soul…
———————–
“We can believe what we choose.
We are answerable for what we choose to believe.”
– Venerable John Henry Newman
————————
EWTN Family Prayer: Fr Joseph Marie Wolfe
For Atheist and Agnostics
O Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth
We worship You!
We pray for those who either
do not believe or who believe wrongly.
Enlighten their minds with Your
Light and inflame their hearts
with Your LOVE!
Give the gift of the FAITH to atheists
and agnostics.
HUMBLE their pride and inspire
their souls with Your grace.
Burst through their blindness
with Your radiance and use EWTN
as an instrument of salvation
for many. Amen
————————-
God bless us all and our country The Philippines
as we pray also for all the victims of the
earthquakes in Japan yesterday!
Be prepared always – body and spirit
We’ll never know what will happened next!
We are not threatening you, its not Christian virtue. What are we trying to do is to warn you, of what lies ahead of you. “Just as a blind will fall on a pit in no one helps him”. When you know the truth, you will stand with it because you can see clearly. Again it is like a giant rock that everyone should climb for them to better their views.
Why do you demand for proof? Do all needs to be seen for you to believe? Have you seen the air or heat? Have you seen force or energy? They can’t be seen but creates an impact and changes like electricity and magnetism. How about bacteria or a virus, have you already seen them? Have you seen the molecules? But you believe in them, right? Have you seen the planets, how do you know that the earth is the 3rd planet from the sun?
Have you seen your brain?? How can you believe then that you have a brain? I’m not making funny of you, believe me. I’m just using your arguments.
They are proven by science and can be verified and observed without visuals. Souls, spirits and gods aren’t. I hope you see the difference.
Then who created the universe and everything in it? Can your science prove that?
what is your proof of God?
you alone can be a single proof that God is…
Also, did your science proved already how do the first man and woman evolve?? Or you believe on what your science tells that you evolve from a monkey?? Funny isn’t it.
Not all things can be proven by science. Science can’t draw conclusion on what they can’t find.
You are right, our current level of science cannot prove everything yet. Science of the future would. But the point is, even things that cannot be seen can be proven by science. Do not divert it to what currently our science cannot prove.
Still, you cannot prove what you’re saying it right by saying science cannot prove everything. By saying science cannot prove everything doesn’t make your statements or claims true. Hence, you still to prove your claims.
So, your statement that there is no God is not true either if you would base it on your own explanation.
Whatever you say, your statement that there is no God is just plain assumption.
Where did I say there’s no god? I make no such claim. It is you who makes claim that there is a god. So prove it.
I simply said you don’t have any proof to your claims.
We tell to you that there is God and you tell that there is no God. If you do not say that there is no God, then you accept the fact that there is God.
God already manifested Himself to different people throughout the history. You can read it from the lives of different saints, God manifested through them and even giving them mystical experiences. The Bible is always there which is the most popular revelation and work of God.
If you want God to reveal Himself to you, you must first believe. You must seek Him. We can’t find something we look for if we do not seek. That is the same with God. You must open and humble your heart for you to receive Him.
Psalm 25:9 He guides the humble on what is right and teaches His way.
James 4:6 Therefore it says, “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble
I believe that God sometimes reward men of good will by revealing more of the truth. I also believe that God, in His Wisdom, withholds too much truth from those who would not honor it. So you might ask, why He did not reveal these same truths, in their fullness to others. Each people are different, with different capabilities and a different intended plan for his service to the Kingdom. This plan is adapted daily in his free will, whether the individual serves or does not serve. If the person is in the pattern of not serving, that person would possibly not benefit from great revelation and graces. He might waste them. In summary, if a person is not disposed to benefit from and make use of extraordinary graces, what benefit is there for either the individual or the Kingdom in giving that person great graces?
God is willing to reveal Himself to you if you are willing. Do you want to know God? Do you want to see Him? Then you must be willing to know and see Him. Are you really willing to see Him? Then, you must humble your self, do not be arrogant, and open your heart. Talk to Him in the silence of your heart. That’s the way He will reveal Himself to you. You have your Guardian Angel, He waits for such a moment that you would consider God. You must believe.
QUOTE
If you do not say that there is no God, then you accept the fact that there is God.
UNQUOTE
Wrong. I don’t have any proof that’s why I can’t say there’s no god. But I don’t have a proof that there’s a god so I can’t say there’s a god either. Don’t think black and white. So tell me, is there a teapot revolving around the Andromeda Galaxy? Your answer? You don’t know? So is that a yes or no? You got proof? Before composing a response, please try to think critically at least. We’re not morons.
QUOTE
God already manifested Himself to different people throughout the history. You can read it from the lives of different saints, God manifested through them and even giving them mystical experiences. The Bible is always there which is the most popular revelation and work of God.
UNQUOTE
And the proof is the Bible! Bing bing bing bing! Hooray! *sarcasm*
QUOTE
If you want God to reveal Himself to you, you must first believe. You must seek Him. We can’t find something we look for if we do not seek. That is the same with God. You must open and humble your heart for you to receive Him.
UNQUOTE
Sorry but I was a sincere believer for 25 years. And no, you cannot find anything that doesn’t exist or who doesn’t want to be found.
QUOTE
Psalm 25:9 He guides the humble on what is right and teaches His way.
James 4:6 Therefore it says, “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble
I believe that God sometimes reward men of good will by revealing more of the truth. I also believe that God, in His Wisdom, withholds too much truth from those who would not honor it. So you might ask, why He did not reveal these same truths, in their fullness to others. Each people are different, with different capabilities and a different intended plan for his service to the Kingdom. This plan is adapted daily in his free will, whether the individual serves or does not serve. If the person is in the pattern of not serving, that person would possibly not benefit from great revelation and graces. He might waste them. In summary, if a person is not disposed to benefit from and make use of extraordinary graces, what benefit is there for either the individual or the Kingdom in giving that person great graces?
God is willing to reveal Himself to you if you are willing. Do you want to know God? Do you want to see Him? Then you must be willing to know and see Him. Are you really willing to see Him? Then, you must humble your self, do not be arrogant, and open your heart. Talk to Him in the silence of your heart. That’s the way He will reveal Himself to you. You have your Guardian Angel, He waits for such a moment that you would consider God. You must believe.
UNQUOTE
I no longer believe in the Bible.
And where did you get the idea that I only believe in things that can only be seen? Don’t put words into someone else’s mouth.
Wind and things cannot be seen such those are proven by science. Wind can be detected without being seen. Can you detect soul? God? Spirit? No. They cannot be proven by any sciences. Brain? LOL you don’t have to look at your own brain to know you have one. If that’s how you think, I pity you.
Science, by its very nature, is never capable of proving the non-existence of anything. Scientists can only draw conclusions on what they find, not on what they can’t find.
Some take the position that if science doesn’t give us reason to believe in something, then no good reason exists. That’s simply the false assumption scientism. Don’t ever concede the idea that science is the only method available to learn things about the world.
One thing science cannot do, even in principle, is disprove the existence of anything. So when people try to use science to disprove the existence of God, they’re using science illegitimately. They’re misusing it, and this just makes science look bad.
The way many try to show God doesn’t exist is simply by asserting it, but that’s not proof. It isn’t even evidence. Scientists sometimes get away with this by requiring that scientific law–natural law–must explain everything. If it can’t explain a supernatural act or a supernatural Being then neither can exist. This is cheating, though.
Scientists haven’t proven God doesn’t exist; they’ve merely assumed it in many cases. They’ve foisted this truism on the public, and then operated from that point of view. They act as if they’ve really said something profound, when all they’ve done is given you an unjustified opinion.
hmmm are you a scientist jlocute?
jlocute, you cannot prove non-existence in anyway. Can you prove unicorn doesn’t exist? Can you prove that there is no life in Andromeda Galaxy? Can you prove that you didn’t steal anything? Of course you can’t because it doesn’t need any proofs. Negative is the default position until positive is proven.
Only positive claims need proofs such as if god exists or if unicorn exists. If no proofs are presented, then it is just wise to assume neither of them are existing.
Your answer simply agrees with me that you cannot prove anything. If you can’t, then you are simply assuming which is not a proof or fact.
Whatever you say, your statement doesnt coincide with your argument.
Unless you can prove that the US Supreme Court is wrong in its conclusion, I believe I have a concrete proof that contraceptive mentality leads to abortion mentality.
Did you get it? Americans, through their intimate (that is, sexual) relationships, made CHOICES THAT DEFINE their views of themselves and their places in society, in reliance on the availability of abortion IN THE EVENT THAT CONTRACEPTION SHOULD FAIL.
Ganito lang yan. Nag-umpisa silang ipaglaban ang tinatawag nilang karapatang mamili. Nung naipanalo nila yun kahit na mali, naging legal ang federal funding ng contraceptives. Nung generally accepted na ang contraceptive mentality, nagpakita na ang totoong mukha nito. Lumabas ang Roe v Wade (although pro-life na si Roe ngayon). Sinubukan itong baligtarin ng marami pero wala na silang magagawa. Lalo itong lumalakas habang tumatagal. Kahit na ilegal ang contraceptives at abortion noon sa US, kailangan lang ng mahabang panahon at katigasan ng ulo para maging katanggap-tanggap at legal ito.
“Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you that precept.” (Mark 10:5)
As I said you’re just invoking the Slippery Slope Fallacy, which of course a logical fallacy.
Here’s an example of that fallacy from the link I gave you:
“We have to stop the tuition increase! The next thing you know, they’ll be charging $40,000 a semester!”
It’s like saying your god shouldn’t have given humanity the freewill because it will lead to the passage of abortion laws. Laughable really. So where and when do you stop this chains of cause and effect? When you feel so? When you say so? I don’t think so.
If US law allows its people to do abortions, it’s because of its own merits not because contraceptives became acceptable. Think about it.
“It’s like saying your god shouldn’t have given humanity the freewill because it will lead to the passage of abortion laws.”
In which part of the argument did you get that conclusion?
“If US law allows its people to do abortions, it’s because of its own merits not because contraceptives became acceptable. ”
Not according to the Supreme Court. Besides, this is exactly what Margaret Sanger had in her vision and mission even in the beginning.
She insisted on legalizing contraceptives with the deceitful reasoning that it would minimize abortion, which according to her is evil. However, when the Americans already have the contraceptive lifestyle that she dreamed about, she was sure that it’s time to introduce abortion as an alternative “in the event that contraception should fail.” But it should be the last resort, so she said. Contrary to her euphemism, though, she eventually promoted abortion, suggesting that “the most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.” And so Roe v Wade was born.
Today, Planned Parenthood, whose founder is Margaret Sanger, even goes to the extreme of manipulating medical truth just to have as many murdered babies as possible. And who is behind the US Foreign Policy regarding the so-called reproductive health? Right, PPFA — and many other partners, of course. And what is “reproductive health” according to the global definition? It is population control — not reproduction, and not health.
Now, who is behind the Philippines’ RH Bill? Same organizations, politicians, and leaders that are responsible for the same project around the world. You can try to prove the opposite if you want.
— Regardless of who influenced the RH bill, it is still not about abortion.
Will it lead to passage of abortion bills? It’s just your speculation. You don’t have proofs that it will lead eventually to abortion. It is just your speculation and prediction. You are just assuming that the thing will happen eventually.
Anyways, I would still love to have our population be under control. As I said before, we don’t have enough investors to give everyone jobs. And not everyone can be investor. We have to wait for the economy to grow before we can have more room for a decent paying jobs. The law of supply and demand always prevails so stick to its rules and respect it.
—
First of, OCPs act as abortifacient, as have already explained many times here.
Second, advocates of RH Bill have wrong definition of abortion secondary to their wrong definition of conception.
Third, the influence behind the bill cannot be set aside because they are not mere “inspiration” but are the hands themselves who hold the wheel. They are the ones who coined and defined “reproductive health”, which according to them, and according to practice, “includes abortion.” Whenever the term “reproductive health” is used, abortion is always inside the package. You cannot use a defined word and tell the world that it is not your definition. Reproductive health is not a plain English term but a political one, and you cannot use it without agreeing to its meaning first.
“You don’t have proofs that it will lead eventually to abortion.”
It sounds that you want a “future proof” as if someone can go to the future and tell you that it happened. However, if the proof that you’re asking is an “instance” of that consequence, understand this firsthand account from Dr. Brian Clowes: “I’ve been all around the world, and the way they start trying to legalize abortion is to legalize contraception first. And of course it fails tremendously, and so women start looking for illegal abortions. Then the same people who are pushing contraception say now we have to legalize abortion. It’s a really neat little system that works every time.”
“…we don’t have enough investors to give everyone jobs.”
Not exactly right. We have investors but they cannot give everybody a job. Why? Because they need skills and qualifications. Even one million IT companies and another million BPOs cannot give a job to even a single unqualified applicant. Depopulate the country until it only has 10 people, but if they don’t qualify, you still have the same story and the same problem. Not a single Filipino today can say, “Wala akong trabaho kasi wala nang bakante kahit saan.” That’s impossible. The problem is that the applicant is not fit to fill in. Saying that “there is no job anymore” is a lame excuse. Here and there, you’ll see job fairs. And for everybody’s info, online earners (home-based) are also on the rise.
QUOTE
Not exactly right. We have investors but they cannot give everybody a job. Why? Because they need skills and qualifications. Even one million IT companies and another million BPOs cannot give a job to even a single unqualified applicant. Depopulate the country until it only has 10 people, but if they don’t qualify, you still have the same story and the same problem. Not a single Filipino today can say, “Wala akong trabaho kasi wala nang bakante kahit saan.” That’s impossible. The problem is that the applicant is not fit to fill in. Saying that “there is no job anymore” is a lame excuse. Here and there, you’ll see job fairs. And for everybody’s info, online earners (home-based) are also on the rise.
UNQUOTE
I disagree. I am an OFW FYI. You must be underestimating the Filipinos. How many do you think are working abroad? Do you really think we’re not qualified if we’re able to get a decent paying job here outside the Philippines? I think you’re wrong. More than 10 million Filipinos are OFW that’s almost 1/10 of our total population.
Let’s assume we are very skilled and more than qualified, what would you think our salaries would be if thousands of skilled candidates applies for a single job? See? You’d be employed but you’d be underpaid. Most of us in the Philippines is either underpaid or underemployed if not unemployed. None of us would be trying hard to get a decent paying job abroad if you’re right about what you have said.
This is basic law of supply and demand.
I just want to add up that IUD is not the only contraceptives around. Latex is surely not an abortifacient.
The Church is not, in fact, in favor of using condoms. So regardless if it’s abortifacient or not, the Church won’t just listen because it’s not the method that the Church is against. It is against the population control itself. The reason why natural method is what the Church is recommending is because they know it isn’t effective. The success rate is just too low to even matter. I think the Church here is being hypocrite. Trying to recommend something that isn’t effective and yet they oppose the population control. So why even recommend the natural method if you’re against population control? One simple answer, because they know over population is a real problem but they don’t want to solve it because it is against their belief and it might affect the number of their followers.
I think you’re taking the argument out of the context. You might be qualified but you are not all Filipinos. There are reasons for rejected applications, and one of the main ones is lack of qualification. It does not necessarily mean that Filipinos, as persons, are not fit to work. I even suggested that majority of us can be millionaires (I met some of the those millionaires last year), and for me it doesn’t sound to be underestimating the Filipinos. We have potentials but education is the problem. You can’t even be an OFW if you haven’t had at least high school or elementary knowledge.
But in the end, I will still leave the same question. Why are we in the same country and yet some poor become rich while most people cannot? There must be a reason. Why Henry Sy became the richest man in the Philippines while he was poor in China? How come that a janitor in PGH and a balot vendor in Alabang are now millionaires while those in middle class are still struggling? If they can link that to population, maybe I will reconsider.
And oh, to all of those who are interested to be among the blessed ones, I would recommend one “millionaire maker” — Bo Sanchez. He had already help many Filipinos to become millionaires. It doesn’t matter if you have 10 siblings, just approach him if you believe you cannot be underestimated by anybody.
QUOTE
I think you’re taking the argument out of the context.
UNQUOTE
Nope, that is exactly what you’re trying to say that people like me are not qualified to receive a decent paying job which I couldn’t find in the Philippines because of the over supply of man power. Have you ever learned about what the law of supply and demand says about this? I don’t understand why you keep on ignoring that point.
QUOTE
You might be qualified but you are not all Filipinos.
UNQUOTE
That’s not the point. The point is a lot of qualified and skilled Filipinos aren’t able to find decent paying jobs in the Philippines because we’re too many compared to the available job vacancies. The only gets accepted are those who are willing to get underpaid or underemployed. And those who can’t stomach such pay would be going abroad. Again, this is simple basic law of supply and demand which again you keep on ignoring.
QUOTE
You can’t even be an OFW if you haven’t had at least high school or elementary knowledge.
UNQUOTE
As I said, that is besides the point. I don’t want to be an OFW but I am forced to because I want a decent-paying job. What more if all of our people becomes educated? What more if everyone of us is qualified? I bet it would be much more closer to impossible of getting a decent-paying job here because everyone is competing in very few decent-paying jobs.
QUOTE
Why are we in the same country and yet some poor become rich while most people cannot? There must be a reason. Why Henry Sy became the richest man in the Philippines while he was poor in China?
UNQUOTE
That is not a good benchmark. All countries have such people. But our only difference is that here in the Philippines, even hard working qualified professionals can’t be rich whereas if they work abroad they can. In other countries you don’t have to be like Henry Sy to become rich, in the Philippines, you have to exploit the cheap labor to be rich. You can be rich at the expense of others.
QUOTE
How come that a janitor in PGH and a balot vendor in Alabang are now millionaires while those in middle class are still struggling?
UNQUOTE
It’s because he’s lucky to be early joiner of an MLM. What about the other people that did the same thing as that janitor but happened to be so late to join the MLM? You’re examples are all exceptions thus it can’t be considered as valid to be used in an argument. We can’t all be that lucky as that janitor.
Read the meaning of that abortion. before you do it…..
Gusto ko lang i-shared one article to contemplate with lalo na ngayong lenten season for those individual who lived on their own, following their own inordinate desires disregarding the moral values. God loves us all. Listen to Him.
God bless us all
——————————–
WHAT DO YOU HEAR?
Author Unknown
A Native American and his friend were in downtown New York City,
walking near Times Square in Manhattan. It was during the noon lunch
hour and the streets were filled with people. Cars were honking their
horns, taxicabs were squealing around corners, sirens were wailing,
and the sounds of the city were almost deafening. Suddenly, the Native
American said, “I hear a cricket.”
His friend said, “What? You must be crazy. You couldn’t possibly hear
a cricket in all of this noise!”
“No, I’m sure of it,” the Native American said, “I heard a cricket.”
“That’s crazy,” said the friend.
The Native American listened carefully for a moment, and then walked
across the street to a big cement planter where some shrubs were
growing. He looked into the bushes, beneath the branches, and sure
enough, he located a small cricket. His friend was utterly amazed.
“That’s incredible,” said his friend. “You must have superhuman ears!”
“No,” said the Native American. “My ears are no different from yours.
It all depends on what you’re listening for.”
“But that can’t be!” said the friend. “I could never hear a cricket in
this noise.”
“Yes, it’s true,” came the reply. “It depends on what is really
important to you. Here, let me show you.” He reached into his pocket,
pulled out a few coins, and discreetly dropped them on the sidewalk.
And then, with the noise of the crowded street still blaring in their
ears, they noticed every head within twenty feet turn and look to see
if the money that tinkled on the pavement was theirs. “See what I
mean?” asked the Native American. “It all depends on what’s important
to you.”
What’s important to you? What do you listen for? Some people say that
there is no God, and that He never speaks to us anymore. But perhaps
they can’t see or hear Him because they aren’t listening for Him. They
are living for themselves, not for God.
If you are in tune with God, you will be able to notice Him at work in
your life and in the world. And you’ll be able to hear Him when He
speaks.
———————————
Proclaim the Word;
be persistent whether it is convenient or inconvenient;
convince, reprimand, encourage through all patience and teaching.
For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine
but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity,
will accumulate teachers and will stop listening to the truth
and will be diverted to myths. – 2 Timothy 4:2-4
————————-
Do not conform yourselves to this age
but be transformed by the renewal of your mind,
that you may discern what is the will of God,
what is good and pleasing and perfect. – Romans 12:2
————————
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teaching.
It is good to have our hearts strengthened by grace
and not by foods, which do not benefit those who live by them. – Hebrews 13:8-9
————————-
Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God;
everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God.
Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love. – 1 John 4:7-8
————————-
“…And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:20)
————————-
But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. – Matthew 24:13
God bless the Philippines at tayong mga Pilipino.
I don’t think that is a sound argument. Hearing things that is hard to hear is acceptable. But hearing things that cannot be heard even in complete silence such as the sound of a god is something can be considered as mental illness. No one has ever heard the voice of your god. It’s either just your imagination, illusion or hallucinations. No scientific instrument can even detect it. The sound of a coin or cricket can be detected. Don’t compare the sound of a coin and a cricket to the sound of non existing being or at least not proven to be existing such as god.
“No one has ever heard the voice of your God”? Many has heard the voice of God. Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses.
What more does God want? He doesn’t need anything from us. He is allowing us to create our own experiences. God is God. He has everything. If She still need our praises, if He need us to worship Her, if It have needs and wants and desires and requirements then It is a lesser God. God is assumed to be perfect. What could She possibly gain from all the praise, worship. He only has love for us. Nothing more, nothing less. Let people decide for themselves. Discern what is true for you and be consistent to yourself about it. Read the RH Bill based on its own merits and not your fears and wild assumptions. When the bill is passed and it deviates from its true purpose, then you can speak up.
Even if our God is perfect, even if He has everything, he is still worthy to be loved by His creature.
When somebody loves you, that person is also worthy to be loved by you. Just as a person who loves his/her partner needs her/his love in return. Just as your parents who love you is worthy to be loved by you in return. The same goes with God, He is very much worthy of our love.
When you have things to do or a goal or objective in your life, you consider the outcome to bring joy and hapiness to you, right? That is the same with God, we were created to bring joy and pleasure for Him. We must love Him in return.
You god doesn’t deserved to be loved if he created his creation as his slaves to worship him for eternity. He even gave everyone a chance to go in hell and suffer for eternity. Don’t believe him? Don’t love him? He’ll send you to hell for eternity. He’s such a monster. He should have created robots instead.
No wonder why you answer like this since you do not know God.
“He’ll send you to hell for eternity” –> to those who do not know and believe in Him.
You have just proven my point. The reason he is such is because gods are just created by ancient men.
He created us, and our ancestors sinned against Him, remember? they disobeyed God, but still He reaches his hand to us, because
@enjiru: you were asking what does God want from us? Truly he doesnt need us. it is WE who NEED HIM. God wants all of us to be saved. “Many ARE CALLED BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN”. He will choose among us who has become faithful to Him all this time. We must struggle from all of these temptations surrounding us, He has given us free will, the decision must come from within us. ALL OF YOU ARE STATING THESE CLAIMS. SAYING THAT THERE IS NO GOD. ITS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BIBLE. READ IT SO YOU MAY FIND THE ANSWERS. AFTER READING IT AND STILL YOU DO NOT BELIEVE GOD. THEN YOU SHOULD LIVE WITH YOUR DECISION.
To those who are pro-RH Bill, from this blog itself, didn’t you notice that the atheists and Satanic are joining forces with you on this Bill? If this Bill is Pro-God, how can Satan and his cohorts agree with this Bill?
As of this moment:
Agree with Bill: Atheists, Satanic, homosexual, immoral, liberalists, agnostics, feminists, modernists, secular, anti-Catholic, fallen Catholic, non-Catholic (although not all), and Catholic by name only.
Disagree with the Bill: The Catholic Church itself (those who are united to Her and the Pope)
Notice the difference. The anti-Christ already marks those who will follow him.
These are signs of times. Be alert as the Bible says.
To those who doubt the very existence of heaven, please read the message below from Our Father and His Son about what is Heaven. God always send messenger from time to time. Matthew 28:20 “I am with you always until the end of age”
December 19, 2003
God the Father
My little ones feel great joy in communicating with Me. That is the smallest foretaste of heaven. In heaven, you will have instant and constant communication with Me. We will take such joy in each other, dear children. There is a complete absence of want in heaven. You will search in vain for the poor, the troubled, and the sick. Everywhere you look you will view another tableau of peace and serenity. Souls will seek knowledge and find it. Souls will seek wisdom and obtain it. Souls will seek understanding from others and others will instantly understand them. Such sympathetic listening will take place in heaven, My children. You will know nothing of anxiety for loved ones in heaven because all will be well and all will be decided. There will be no uncertainty in the hearts of My children. Dear ones, this is your destiny. This is your inheritance for which you were created. Your time on earth is a small capsule of time designed to give you the opportunity to obtain your place in heaven. Use the gifts I have given you and you will find no limit to what you can achieve on earth. All heavenly help is available. “But we cannot see it,” reply My children in their poor little hearts. Dear children, as you have been told, you cannot see the wind, but you see the power of the wind and you see the beautiful things that can be achieved when you harness that power. I am the same. How does one harness God? Simply by praying. As you are My servants, I am also your servant, in the sense that a father wants all for his children and gives all to his children. If a child continually refuses a gift from his father, the father knows to stop forcing the gift on that child. The wise father knows that the child cannot be given the gift until the child is ready to see the value of the gift and accept it. This may not be the father’s wish. The father wishes to give the child every gift available and every gift that is valuable to that child. But the wise father waits for the opportunity to direct the child and that opportunity comes when the child begins to listen. Listen to Me, children. I have many graces to give you that you require for your salvation. How sad for Me that My graces are refused and rejected as though they are worthless. I created your world for your pleasure and edification. I did not create your world so that you could sin against each other and sin against Me. Look carefully into your life now. Say to Me, “God, My Father, help me to understand.” I will not refuse this prayer, dearest child destined to be held against My heart. I will not refuse you. I will help you to understand exactly what keeps you from Me. And together, with all of the assistance of heaven, We will bring you to your rightful place. My courage is boundless and I give you a share of that courage. The world will pass away, dear ones, but you will be with Me.
August 27, 2003
Jesus
Today I wish to speak to My children about heaven. Heaven is real, dear ones. It is a place and I am there. Most of your deceased family members are here along with all of the saints and many others whom you have not met. There is great fellowship in heaven, particularly among souls who served Me in similar ways. You will feel no pain or fatigue here, but, at times, you will rest in ideas and concepts so that you can learn them. You see, My children, your learning continues and the quenching of the thirst for knowledge is a part of heaven because everyone is able to learn about any topic that sparks their curiosity. You can then build on that and graduate to even deeper levels of knowledge and knowing. This does not feel like school. It is joy and wonder. It is innocence and love. It is coming into the mystery of your universe in such a way that you then help to direct the universe. My children, because of your limited understanding, which is necessary while you remain on earth, I cannot tell you everything. But I wanted to share this glimpse of heaven with you and I will continue to part the curtains, as it were, so that you understand where you are going. It is good to know your destination so that you know how to prepare. I, your Jesus, am helping you prepare. If you listen to Me and prepare well, you will be ready for heaven when it is time to come here. In this way, the day of your earthly death will be the best day of your life. Believe Me, My children, when I tell you that all of Us here in heaven await your coming. We are linked to you. My children on earth like to think that holiness is someone else’s call. If you are listening to Me now, you understand that holiness is your call. If your destination is heaven, and of course it should be, then you must begin your preparation now. You would hardly travel to a foreign country without learning at least something about what you will want and need there. So take heed when I tell you that you will want to practice the virtues while you remain on earth. Try to view it as learning to speak the heavenly language before your arrival here.
I want to tell you, My children, that the saints, everyone here, clamors to assist you now. You are living in dark times and many of you have fallen into a spiritual sleep. I am preparing to make a loud noise, in a manner of speaking, to awaken your world. Better for you, My child, that you open your eyes gently now and begin to serve from love and obedience, as opposed to fear. If you follow Me now, you will nearly eradicate fear from your life. I felt stabs of human fear for fleeting moments, as in the Garden and when I was condemned to death. But My faith and knowledge assured Me that man could hurt My body, but My soul remained intact, belonging to God and this heavenly world. It will be the same for you, children. You will fear nothing. Additionally, if you follow Me, you will receive extraordinary graces to deal with anything that frightens you. I will manage any fears you have, both now and in the future, and this is another solemn promise I make to you. Also, I give you permission to be like small children, often saying to their parents, “You promised!”
Who will believe you when thousands of other religions claim they are the truth? This is the reason why we must demand undeniable scientific evidences before we believe or else you will be forced to believe all the belief systems in this world.
Let’s make this fair. I say if there’s a god, he will punish those who believe in the Bible or any other scriptures. He will punish them because they are too foolish to believe in such without evidence. He sent the bible and other scripture as a test of intelligence. Those who believe will be sent to hell. So where is my proof for this claim? Well you didn’t present any proofs either so why should I?
To the atheists, please read this heavenly message for you.
February 18. 2004
Jesus
Dear souls, I have come to lead you out of darkness. When a soul remains in darkness for a long period of time, the soul becomes accustomed to the absence of light. This soul then fails to understand on a daily basis that they dwell in a Godless void. In arrogance a soul might say, “I’m quite happy without your God and do not wish to know Him.” Because I am God, I know everything. I know that you are in distress. I know that your soul is immersed in bitterness, despite objections you make to support your arrogance. Dear soul, I want you to look at Me. You do not offend Me by your demand for proof. I have dealt with far more belligerent souls than you. Ask Me to speak to you in your heart. I will do so. You want to know that I exist? I will show you that I exist. Will you then follow Me? I challenge you to make that commitment to Me. If I speak to you in your soul and you hear My voice, will you then forsake darkness and return to My fold? You find your courage failing you, dear soul. You must be braver than this if you are going to be a servant of Christ. I am here. I am watching your every step and hearing your every word. Have you any idea how I stand watching you in every situation and observe your pain? You ridicule Me, dear child of God. I hear you. I am offended by you and yet I never leave you and never stop hoping that you will look at Me. If you close your eyes now and look for Me, I will come to you.
You said:
“I’m quite happy without your God and do not wish to know Him.” Because I am God, I know everything.
I say:
An atheist doesn’t believe in a god so how can he be a god? It’s like saying he doesn’t believe in himself. That’s laughable really.
jlocute, have it ever occurred to you to think critically about your beliefs? Have you ever tried questioning your beliefs? No? I know, because your belief system tells you that it is a sin to question. The reason for that policy is to keep its followers to remain a follower. To keep people in line. To control the people. I think that is evil.
If god really exists, he should be able to understand why we use our brain. He will understand why we have the capability to think and reason. He will understand why we require evidence, logic and reason to believe. He gave us brain to use it after all, didn’t he?
If you want to convert us, you should use evidence, logic and reason and not your evil bible. I guess you can’t do that because you don’t use evidence, logic or reason. You just follow blindly whatever the consequence. You’re not willing to listen and question your own faith. Don’t worry I completely understand you because I was once a believer. I just hope that someday you would have the courage to think.
??
Do good and avoid evil. That is the main thing. Have a life!
He understands all of you tester1094. He gave you the brain and you should use it CORRECTLY. Try to jump off the bridge and tell me if you can. If you don’t, then you are using your brain correctly. That’s how God works–a sort of energy that drives you into goodness EVEN IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN HIM. It’s not just about believing, it’s about how you do good with people.
I comment here without using the bible. Your mind will tell you, my friend. Have you ever tried stealing a cellphone from your neighbor? Have you ever tried killing your sibling? Have you ever tried cheating on a job? Have you ever tried committing suicide? If don’t try all of them, who told you that you cannot do it? Your mind right? Who controls your mind? You, of course. What made you think that it is impossible? Through our parents, right? All of these came from a source of energy. That energy is what we call God. God is not a human being nor an animal. He is something/someone/some_event that make you NOT TO DO EVIL. Do not think of Him as a creature.
jlocute claims that an atheist proclaims himself in god. I am simply saying that such is impossible because an atheist doesn’t believe in a god in the first place.
I said that out of jlocute’s arrogance of claiming that he/she has the only truth and anyone else is wrong. Your comment is totally out of context.
And who told you I wasn’t using it correctly? You? Your god? How am I supposed to believe in you or in your god? Is it wrong to require an evidence? Is it wrong to use my reasoning and logic? Is that how your faith is teaching you to use your brain? To disregard logic and reasoning is what you think the right thing to do with your brain? You’ve got to be kidding me.
I do the right thing to do because doing the right thing to have benefits on me and doing the right thing feels good. Doing bad things won’t benefit me, the society will turn against me and the law of the people. I don’t need any god to tell me what is right from wrong. I pity you if you require a god to know the right from wrong.
If you equate energy as god then you’re a pantheist where the whole universe and what it’s made of, including us, is a god. If that is your view then I can’t say anything against it because it doesn’t make any difference. But to claim that the god is the personal god, the god of the bible or the quran, the god you can pray to to change the law of the universe so he can grant your request, then that is a different story. Also if this god you’re talking about is a sentient being that tells you not to do evil, you’re gonna need to prove that.
—
jlocute claims that an atheist proclaims himself a god. I am simply saying that such is impossible because an atheist doesn’t believe in a god in the first place.
I said that out of jlocute’s arrogance of claiming that he/she has the only truth and anyone else is wrong. Your comment is totally out of context.
And who told you I wasn’t using it correctly? You? Your god? How am I supposed to believe in you or your god? Is it wrong to require an evidence? Is it wrong to use my reasoning and logic? Is that how your faith is teaching you to use your brain? To disregard logic and reasoning is what you think the right thing to do with your brain? You’ve got to be kidding me.
I do the right thing to do because doing the right thing have benefits on me and doing the right thing feels good. Doing bad things won’t benefit me, the society and the law of the people will turn against me. I believe in the common good. I don’t need any god to tell me what is right from wrong. I pity you if you require a god to know the right from wrong.
If you equate energy as god then you’re a pantheist where the whole universe and what it’s made of, including us, is a god. If that is your view then I can’t say anything against it because it doesn’t make any difference. But to claim that the god is the personal god, the god of the bible or the quran, the god you can pray to to break the law of the universe so he can grant your request, then that is a different story. Also if this god you’re talking about is a sentient being that tells you not to do evil, you’re gonna need to prove that.
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No one is going to win this argument.
The followers answers will always fall into God as the answer to everything and anything (don’t take it literally)
And the thinkers will never accept such kind of thinking because to them it is either anti-progressive, useless or any other reason.
Bottom point is no one is going to win.
Logic cant speak logic to the illogical.
Christians cant speak christian to the atheists. (if you get my point)
Maybe we should focus on the effects of this bill without bias (which is what the thinkers are doing) but i request that the others put away their beliefs and assess the bill from a the view of politics and health care.
tester1094, you need scientific proofs on the existence of God? I have just thought of something to prove God. Comment AFTER YOU HAVE COMMENTED MY LAST POST/REPLY TO YOU.
(1)
Q: Who created man?
A: Man is not created. He has evolved from apes.
Q: Who created the apes?
A: (Reply here tester1094)
(2)
Q: Who created the universe?
A: The universe came from a very huge object that breaks off to form stars, earth, etc.
Q: Who created that very huge object?
A: It is the beginning of life
Q: Who created the beginning of life?
A: (Reply here tester1094)
Now, I should make it more “crucial”
(3)
Q: Who do you believe in terms of a spiritual being?
A: Nothing. I’m an atheist.
Q: Don’t you believe in God?
A: No! That stupid god of yours make my life in a great disaster!
Q: What is the root cause of your great disaster?
A: (Reply on this one tester1094)
And finally:
A: I believe in science alone because it is the only instances that have proofs.
Q: Why are you here?
A: (Reply on this one tester1094)
(1)
Who told you man evolved from apes? The theory of evolution doesn’t even claim that. What it says is that the ape and man has common ancestors. Million years ago today’s apes do not exist but their ancestors did.
Who created apes? If you answered that man just evolved, then so the apes did. Now suppose we don’t know the answer. Does that mean god did it? No. You will still need to prove that a genie in a bottle created it.
(2)
I don’t know. Again, not knowing the answer doesn’t prove that god did it. You will need to prove it. If I were you I would simply humbly say I don’t know.
(3)
Great disaster?? You mean something like what happened to Japan this year? You’re totally drifting away. And please, stop putting words into someone else’s mouth.
(4)
Why am I here? I don’t know. Again, not knowing the answer to this question doesn’t prove that god exists.
I’m going to return your quesion. Why are you here? To server god? What for? For his glory? What for? For his happiness? What for? What for? What for? Endless what for questions. Such purpose is pointless and meaningless.
I’ll just write it short.This bill is sugar-coated. The intentions are so nice, but the reality is…its not pro-life. The one who made this are under the power of Satan. Sorry to say that.
I am glad you claim that you are doing good. That is enough. That is how Christian works: Do good and avoid evil. I am glad that you are doing Christian works even you don’t claim it.
You last question seems interesting to me. I am here to help improve Philippines. If you think that being an atheist can help the Philippines grow, then go for it. If you think that recruiting anyone to become an atheist will help the Philippines grow, then go for it (that if you do).
The bottomline is: The only thing I believe that I am a Christian is the tendency for me to do good to people.
Enough for religion talks. GO back to the main topic.
Well said I think everyone can agree on this… Well almost everyone haha
Revising my last post from: https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/reproductive-health-bill-5043/text-of-rh-bill-no-5043/#comment-8625 without using religion.
There are good effects on the RH Bill. However, I will share to you my scrutiny of the bad effects and irregularities on this bill line-by-line and section-by-section; so please have a copy of the Bill to be guided.
Section 2. First paragraph: “…respect for life in conformity with internationally recognized human rights standards.”
–> Philippines have its own standard especially on human life, human dignity, etc. Example: The people of the West are usually liberals (that is, couples can kiss and french kiss on public places). However, Filipinos are usually conservative (that is, we do not engage in public display of affection). If the human dignity of the West is not degraded when they do french kiss on streets, the human dignity of the Filipinos is degraded when we do french kiss on streets. (Try it!) Having said that, it is impossible for Filipinos to equate our human rights standards with other countries, especially the west. Human rights, as meant here, is about the sexuality of the person not just the freedom of press, etc.
Section 2. Third paragraph: “…sustainable human development is better assured with a manageable population of healthy, educated and productive citizens.”
–> First, human development is not variable with population. Look at China. Look at Japan. Resources make human development variable. China is not poor because they have enough resources, but Filipinos are poor because we lack resources–I mean, we do not use our resources correctly to the point that we abuse what Philippines has especially by the gov’t officials. Healthy, educated, and productive citizens cannot be assured by controlled population. What profit it is for Filipinos when our population is less when the government officials are corrupt and even all Filipinos are corrupt in their own way? Having said that, this statement promotes unequal distribution of wealth.
Section 3. (a): “In the promotion of reproductive health, there should be no bias for either modern of natural methods of family planning;”
–> Nothing in this bill that promotes the natural family planning even if the latter is already a common understanding to everyone. People have options here when the bill becomes a law: to do natural method of conception or to do artificial contraception.
Section 3. (e): “The limited resources of the country cannot be suffered to be spread so thinly to service a burgeoning multitude that makes the allocations grossly inadequate and effectively meaningless.”
–> Back to the point of corruption, resources are nothing when the people are not using it properly. A concrete example would be our agricultural products which are rampant for exports in the country. Instead of developing those, people cut those to build buildings used for international company outsourcing. In effect, this statement promotes more money for the rich.
Section 3. (f): “Freedom of informed choice, which is…”
–> The definition of informed choice is not defined in the bill. Some may think that people responsible will educate the people to do natural method of conception. Some may think that everyone, including a 5-year old child, is free to watch x-rated films. Some may think that there should be a demonstration in class.
Section 3. (g): “While the number and spacing of children are left to the sound judgement of parents and couples based on their personal conviction and religious beliefs…”
–> This statement is contradicted by Section 10.
Continued: “…such concerned parents and couples, INCLUDING UNMARRIED INDIVIDUALS, should be granted…”
–> This includes minors, and lovers not capable of being a parent.
Continued: “…and should be guided by qualified State workers and professional private practitioners;”
–> Why the church leaders not included? Priests, pastors, and the like are qualified State workers for the betterment of the MORAL life of a person.
Section 3. (j): “Development…that seek to uplift the quality of life of the people, more particularly the poor, the needy and the marginalized;”
–> Poor Filipinos have no assurance of benefits.
Section 3. (l): “Respect for, PROTECTION and FULFILLMENT of REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH RIGHTS…not only the rights and welfare of adult individuals and couples BUT THOSE OF ADOLESCENTS’ AND CHILDREN’S AS WELL;…”
–> What reproductive health rights for the adolescents and children? Children are included who are not yet mature enough.
Section 3. (m): “…as abortion remains a crime and is punishable, the government shall ensure the women seeking care for POST-ABORTION COMPLICATIONS shall be treated…and compassionate manner.”
–> This is contradicted in Section 10. The bill doesn’t only contradicts the Law of Nature but violates the bill itself as well. Post-abortion complications in this statement is only an admission that abortion really has complications.
Section 4. “Definition of Terms”
–> Redefining the common understanding of everyone does not need to be defined. This is different from Definition of Terms the Graduate Students have as their thesis.
Section 4. (b): “…which enables couples and INDIVIDUALS to decide freely and responsibly the NUMBER and SPACING OF THEIR CHILDREN…”
–> “Individuals” mean unmarried couples have the right to have children.
Section 4. (c): “Reproductive Health – refers to the state of physical, mental and social well-being…”
–> Spiritual and moral well-being is not included here which are necessary for human well-being.
Continued: “This implies that PEOPLE are able to have a SATISFYING and SAFE SEX LIFE, that they have the CAPABILITY TO REPRODUCE and the freedom to DECIDE if, WHEN AND HOW OFTEN TO DO SO, provided that these are not against the law.”
–> Take note of the phrases that are in UPPERCASE. People to be satisfied includes the youth, unmarried, homosexual, etc. And, they may decide when and how often to have sex. This means that it is legal and very fine for teenagers to have sex every minute on the grassland.
Section 4. (d): “Reproductive Health Rights – refers to the rights of INDIVIDUALS and couples to DECIDE FREELY AND RESPONSIBLY the number, spacing and timing of their children.”
–> Does this bill really promotes population control; where in fact, I can decide freely and responsibly the number of children? Suppose I receive great pay, I can raise about 15 children.
Section 4. (h): “…relevant information on all matters relating to the reproductive system its functions and processes and human sexuality…”
–> This may promote promiscuity in education.
Continued: “…developing NECESSARY SKILLS to be able to distinguish between facts and myths on sex and sexuality…”
–> Students should have an actual sexual intercourse in class to achieve the necessary skills. They should also learn the techniques, the positions and the likes. A good suggestion would be to have a pornographic film showing in class or a sex opera instead.
Section 10: “Contraceptives as ESSENTIAL MEDICINES – hormonal contraceptives, intrauterine devices, injectables and other allied reproductive health products…shall be considered under the category of ESSENTIAL MEDICINES…”
–> This is the most interesting part. Contraceptives are now considered as ESSENTIAL MEDICINES. We can buy condoms the same way we buy Biogesic at an affordable price. Children and teenagers can afford those. From this, children can master the necessary skills through experiments and practices for better reproductive health learning as depicted in Section 4, h.
Section 12. (g): “Abstinence before marriage”
–> How can this be promoted when all unmarried individuals are allowed to have sex? See Section 4.
Sections 22 – 27:
–> If this become a law, people like me who loves humanity will have no choice to obey it.
One final point:
I may not be so sure on the rationale of this Bill. I thought of something like population control–to control the number of people in the Philippines to increase our economy. This rationale is so selfish and so illogical.
The economy of the Philippines can improve through proper education and proper discipline of the government officials to mention some.
QUOTE
Philippines have its own standard especially on human life, human dignity, etc. Example: The people of the West are usually liberals (that is, couples can kiss and french kiss on public places). However, Filipinos are usually conservative (that is, we do not engage in public display of affection). If the human dignity of the West is not degraded when they do french kiss on streets, the human dignity of the Filipinos is degraded when we do french kiss on streets. (Try it!) Having said that, it is impossible for Filipinos to equate our human rights standards with other countries, especially the west. Human rights, as meant here, is about the sexuality of the person not just the freedom of press, etc.
UNQUOTE
What exact rights that this bill gives the Filipinos that you are against with? Using condoms? I’m not sure if I got your point here.
QUOTE
First, human development is not variable with population. Look at China. Look at Japan. Resources make human development variable. China is not poor because they have enough resources, but Filipinos are poor because we lack resources–I mean, we do not use our resources correctly to the point that we abuse what Philippines has especially by the gov’t officials. Healthy, educated, and productive citizens cannot be assured by controlled population. What profit it is for Filipinos when our population is less when the government officials are corrupt and even all Filipinos are corrupt in their own way? Having said that, this statement promotes unequal distribution of wealth.
UNQUOTE
China is not a poor country anymore. You know why? One of the reasons is because of this one-child policy that they have. But they are not that rich as you might have thought. The gap between the rich and the poor is still wide because they’re still too many but they have taken action to do something about it.
Is Japan overpopulated? Maybe yes when you compare the number of people against their land area. Singapore and Hongkong are one of the countries that has very high density of population and yet they are progressive and considered to be first world countries. However look at their economical capacity to support their citizens. They earn a lot per head. It means they are not overpopulated when you compare them to the size of their economy. They have a lot of investors to give most of their citizens decent-paying jobs. What about the Philippines? We may not be overpopulated when you compare our numbers to our land area but our economy is too small to support its citizens and that’s the whole point. We don’t have enough investors to give everyone a decent paying job. Just look at our nurses, they are so desperate that they would even pay their employers just to get experience. Poor Filipinos. Too many people competing in too little resources such as jobs. So let’s create jobs then and trash the RH Bill! Nope, we can’t create jobs that easily, we would need to wait for our economy to create investors. And no matter how rich we are if we’re just too many, we’re going nowhere. Balance is the key. Oversupplying the manpower in the workforce will yield low salaries, low purchasing power, and finally poverty.
QUOTE
Nothing in this bill that promotes the natural family planning even if the latter is already a common understanding to everyone. People have options here when the bill becomes a law: to do natural method of conception or to do artificial contraception.
UNQUOTE
The problem with the natural method is that its success rate is too low that it’s almost has no effect in controlling the population. No wonder why the RC has no problem with the natural method.
QUOTE
Back to the point of corruption, resources are nothing when the people are not using it properly. A concrete example would be our agricultural products which are rampant for exports in the country. Instead of developing those, people cut those to build buildings used for international company outsourcing. In effect, this statement promotes more money for the rich.
UNQUOTE
We have no choice. We are forced to create an attractive environment for foreign investors otherwise most of the Filipinos would be farmers instead of working in a call center or BPO. We are forced to attract foreign investors because we are just too many to give everyone a decent-paying job to rely solely in our own.
QUOTE
The definition of informed choice is not defined in the bill. Some may think that people responsible will educate the people to do natural method of conception. Some may think that everyone, including a 5-year old child, is free to watch x-rated films. Some may think that there should be a demonstration in class.
UNQUOTE
Would you prefer someone you don’t know would educate your child about sex instead of the school? If you don’t educate them about sex, somebody will.
i’ll be posting another post for the rest of your comments.
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Why the church leaders not included? Priests, pastors, and the like are qualified State workers for the betterment of the MORAL life of a person.
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Because we’re a secular state. Not all Filipinos are Catholics or Protestants or Muslims. Some are even atheists. To be fair, religion should not interfere which I think is just consistent with our constitution that mandates to separate the Church and the State.
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Poor Filipinos have no assurance of benefits
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Not having unwanted pregnancies is a good benefit for a poor couple.
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This is contradicted in Section 10. The bill doesn’t only contradicts the Law of Nature but violates the bill itself as well. Post-abortion complications in this statement is only an admission that abortion really has complications.
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HOw did it contradict section 10? I don’t get your point here.
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Spiritual and moral well-being is not included here which are necessary for human well-being.
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I thought you said you’re not going to use religion as argument to oppose the bill.
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Students should have an actual sexual intercourse in class to achieve the necessary skills. They should also learn the techniques, the positions and the likes. A good suggestion would be to have a pornographic film showing in class or a sex opera instead.
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LOL nice one. I recommend watching Kama Sutra. But seriously, RH doesn’t say anything about that.
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This is the most interesting part. Contraceptives are now considered as ESSENTIAL MEDICINES. We can buy condoms the same way we buy Biogesic at an affordable price. Children and teenagers can afford those. From this, children can master the necessary skills through experiments and practices for better reproductive health learning as depicted in Section 4, h.
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Would you prefer your children to have sex without contraceptives? It’s better to have it than none if they’re going to do it anyways. Can you imagine having a 10-year old father as your child?
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I may not be so sure on the rationale of this Bill. I thought of something like population control–to control the number of people in the Philippines to increase our economy. This rationale is so selfish and so illogical.
The economy of the Philippines can improve through proper education and proper discipline of the government officials to mention some.
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As I have said in my previous post, over supply of man power in the workforce leads to lower salaries, lower purchasing power and finally poverty. Balance is the key.
All Quoted from tester$$$$:
What exact rights that this bill gives the Filipinos that you are against with? Using condoms? I’m not sure if I got your point here.
–> You do not understand my comment on this statement. Sexuality rights. Get a real definition of sexuality so you may not be ignorant or unknowingly ignorant. Explanations have already been stated.
China is not a poor country anymore. You know why? One of the reasons is because of this one-child policy that they have. But they are not that rich as you might have thought. The gap between the rich and the poor is still wide because they’re still too many but they have taken action to do something about it.
Is Japan overpopulated? Maybe yes when you compare the number of people against their land area. Singapore and Hongkong are one of the countries that has very high density of population and yet they are progressive and considered to be first world countries. However look at their economical capacity to support their citizens. They earn a lot per head. It means they are not overpopulated when you compare them to the size of their economy. They have a lot of investors to give most of their citizens decent-paying jobs. What about the Philippines? We may not be overpopulated when you compare our numbers to our land area but our economy is too small to support its citizens and that’s the whole point. We don’t have enough investors to give everyone a decent paying job. Just look at our nurses, they are so desperate that they would even pay their employers just to get experience. Poor Filipinos. Too many people competing in too little resources such as jobs. So let’s create jobs then and trash the RH Bill! Nope, we can’t create jobs that easily, we would need to wait for our economy to create investors. And no matter how rich we are if we’re just too many, we’re going nowhere. Balance is the key. Oversupplying the manpower in the workforce will yield low salaries, low purchasing power, and finally poverty.
–> Your first statements are exactly my point. RH bill is not just the only solution to improve our economy. Let the government officials use our taxes and our funds wisely. Improve educational standards of the country. We already have enough resources to tweak one’s brain to improve our economy.
The problem with the natural method is that its success rate is too low that it’s almost has no effect in controlling the population. No wonder why the RC has no problem with the natural method.
–> Yes, it is true that the success rate is very very low. Do you think that RH Bill will decrease the rate of the onset of pregnancy? I don’t like to talk morals here because you are an atheist. I’ll give you a simple analogy: If you smoke once or twice, it is almost impossible for you to take smoking away from you. Same goes, if you have sex knowing you are still immature and incapable of being a parent, it is almost impossible for you to take away sexual desires. Do you know the success rate of condoms in the Phils? To exaggerate, let’s say, 1 out of 20. Still, unmarried couples will get pregnant but less. Contraception is not the key, responsibility is as mentioned.
We have no choice. We are forced to create an attractive environment for foreign investors otherwise most of the Filipinos would be farmers instead of working in a call center or BPO. We are forced to attract foreign investors because we are just too many to give everyone a decent-paying job to rely solely in our own.
–> This is rooted from the Philippine history during the Spanish colonial period so there is no question about this. Now that we are enlightened of what is right, that is, we have enough knowledge to recreate our country, we not? Filipinos are not just typical farmers. There are engineers capable of improving infrastructures. There are computer engineers capable of developing our technology. There are nurses and doctors to cater hospital needs. It is true that we need funds. Sharing of capabilities can help, not just contraception. Tester$$$, think outside the box.
Would you prefer someone you don’t know would educate your child about sex instead of the school? If you don’t educate them about sex, somebody will.
–> Are you not taught of sexual education in your highschool years? In my highscool, we were taught on sexual education in terms of occurrence of pregnancy and the HUMAN DIGNITY. I’ve learned that sexuality is not just about your sex organ. It’s about human life. That is the reason why having sex anywhare and anytime like dogs do are awkward. Now, about the techniques on how to do sex? You can learn it without someone teaching you. tester$$$ who taught you how to do sex?
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You do not understand my comment on this statement. Sexuality rights. Get a real definition of sexuality so you may not be ignorant or unknowingly ignorant. Explanations have already been stated.
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So you don’t want people to have sex, that’s it isn’t it? Do you know what happens if you repress it? Just ask the priests who committed child abuse. Every couples should have the right access to information and facility of implementing the family planning regardless whether they choose the natural or artificial. They have the right to have sex without the intention of pro-creating. If you think that is immoral then keep it to yourself but don’t take away that right from everyone else.
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Your first statements are exactly my point. RH bill is not just the only solution to improve our economy. Let the government officials use our taxes and our funds wisely. Improve educational standards of the country. We already have enough resources to tweak one’s brain to improve our economy.
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I agree that RH bill is not the only solution but rather it is a part of that solution. It’s like one of the three legs of a tripod that when you remove at least one, it would fall. So, we need to boost investors, balance the population and get rid of corruption. Even it’s just a part, it is still essential.
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Yes, it is true that the success rate is very very low. Do you think that RH Bill will decrease the rate of the onset of pregnancy? I don’t like to talk morals here because you are an atheist. I’ll give you a simple analogy: If you smoke once or twice, it is almost impossible for you to take smoking away from you.
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I know you believe that prevention is better than cure. So do I. But that doesn’t mean we should be devising cure. Cure is still important in case prevention isn’t successful just as much as cure to the cancer is important as much its prevention.
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Same goes, if you have sex knowing you are still immature and incapable of being a parent, it is almost impossible for you to take away sexual desires.
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I disagree. The couple has the right to have sex whenever they want as long as they’re not doing it in public and they’re not doing any harm to others. The couple should have a choice when to have children. If they are not prepared, they should still enjoy having sex. If you think that is immoral, again, keep your it to yourself and don’t take away that right from others. Does it hurt you if some couple is having sex and you don’t get to have one? I think you’re just being insecured. Let other people do whatever they want to do as long as it is not harmful to others and it doesn’t breach anyone’s rights.
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Do you know the success rate of condoms in the Phils? To exaggerate, let’s say, 1 out of 20. Still, unmarried couples will get pregnant but less. Contraception is not the key, responsibility is as mentioned.
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Yes I agree. Being responsible enough to use contraceptives when you’re not prepared is the key here.
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This is rooted from the Philippine history during the Spanish colonial period so there is no question about this. Now that we are enlightened of what is right, that is, we have enough knowledge to recreate our country, we not? Filipinos are not just typical farmers. There are engineers capable of improving infrastructures. There are computer engineers capable of developing our technology. There are nurses and doctors to cater hospital needs. It is true that we need funds. Sharing of capabilities can help, not just contraception.
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Exactly my point. We have lots of talents. The problem is we’re just to many to make use all of it. That’s why we have no choice but for others to leave the country and let other countries to make use of our skills.
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Are you not taught of sexual education in your highschool years? In my highscool, we were taught on sexual education in terms of occurrence of pregnancy and the HUMAN DIGNITY. I’ve learned that sexuality is not just about your sex organ. It’s about human life. That is the reason why having sex anywhare and anytime like dogs do are awkward.
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Again, there’s nothing wrong in having sex anytime and anywhere as long as you keep it in private and you don’t breach other’s right.
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Now, about the techniques on how to do sex? You can learn it without someone teaching you. tester$$$ who taught you how to do sex?
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Yeah right, you’re gonna learn your lessons when it’s too late, when you’re already unwillingly pregnant.
Let me just clarify some things. First of, the Church in the Philippines is not preventing anyone to use contraceptives, although Catholics are bound by their Catholic conscience not to do so. Rather, the Church is protesting against the passing of a bill that violates not just Catholics but the Constitution, the Filipino values, and the democracy that it fought for. Condom users can “buy” all the condoms that they want.
About the effectiveness of NFP, I think you should do a research first. Try the documentary video here – http://rhbilltruth.blogspot.com/ or explore this site: http://www.woomb.org/. It would appear that the proponents of RH Bill are just fooling themselves, pretending to promote also the NFP while they can prove that it is less effective. Doesn’t sound logical. The Bill clearly shows that it wants to promote the artificial methods only, so they should have kicked out NFP from there if they think they can really prove its inefficacy. Right?
I would suggest an honest and thorough exploration of this site – http://overpopulationisamyth.com
And about the Church, it would be rather wise to say nothing about something that you don’t know.
based on research done in the philippines, traditional methods of contraception like rhythm have been the cause of unplanned and unwanted pregnancies among couples.
Where is the source?
Again, the conclusion is the same: it would be senseless to go to the extent of pretending if the proponents of RH Bill can discredit NFP altogether. And for everybody’s information, when we say NFP, the main method that we have in mind is the BOM and the Creighton Model.
the BOM and Creighton Model are being rejected by filipinas – both methods involve inserting their finger deep into their vaginas tto get some mucus then inspect/analyze the consistency of the mucus. many filipinas are appalled by the idea of inserting their fingers into their vaginas every so often.
Not according to the training that I’ve got. The woman does not have to insert any of her fingers into the vagina because the mucus flows on the underwear, and the sample there is enough. It is the IUDs and cervical caps that involve insertion, not just of fingers but of foreign objects that can irritate and cause complications to the reproductive tract.
your training was wrong. the mucus is taken to determine its consistency. taking the mucus from the underwear gives the mucus a false consistency. if that is done, the incidence of unwanted pregnancy rises. the mucus need to be taken from the inside of the vagina.
Being rejected by whom and by what reason? Who were the doctors who talked to many Filipinas and rejected their advise to use these methods?
What did the doctors say? And were these many Filipinas not appalled by the idea of a foreign object — which may cause infections and other adverse effects — being inserted deep into their vagina? If they are, does that mean that these objects should also be discouraged? I heard somebody said, “That is why they should check with their doctor,” but the next question is, “Would there be absolutely no side effect if they do?”
Should we reject NFP for convenience reason and rather take the risk of acquiring medical conditions for using contraceptives?
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Let me just clarify some things. First of, the Church in the Philippines is not preventing anyone to use contraceptives, although Catholics are bound by their Catholic conscience not to do so.
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Then let me clarify that the RH Bill doesn’t force anyone to use condoms.
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Rather, the Church is protesting against the passing of a bill that violates not just Catholics but the Constitution
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Religion shouldn’t be used as an argument because not everyone belongs to the same faith as yours. And again the bill doesn’t force you to use condom.
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, the Filipino values, and the democracy that it fought for.
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Democracy? What? To force your belief system upon others? Not everyone agrees with you that using condoms is wrong. If you believe it is wrong then don’t use it, what’s the problem with that?
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About the effectiveness of NFP, I think you should do a research first. Try the documentary video here – __ or explore this site: __.
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According to the Guttmacher Institute, NFP has a 25.3% failure rate and results in 35% of abortions.
source: scribd_com/doc/50749695/The-Inconvenient-Truth-Short-Facts-About-Family-Planning-RH-and-Development
Famous place for trashing fetuses is near the Quiapo Church. Thanks for forbidding the use of condoms, mothers are now forced to abort instead of preventing the conception (*sarcasm* in case you don’t get it). If they only knew they could let their partners use condoms such things wouldn’t happen.
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It would appear that the proponents of RH Bill are just fooling themselves, pretending to promote also the NFP while they can prove that it is less effective. Doesn’t sound logical.
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It is there so we can say we provided you choices. Unlike you, we provide choices. But people like you want to impose the natural method which you only agree with. You like it therefore it should be followed. What were you saying again? Democracy? You call that democracy?
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The Bill clearly shows that it wants to promote the artificial methods only, so they should have kicked out NFP from there if they think they can really prove its inefficacy. Right?
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That’s only your extrapolation. RH Bill doesn’t say anything like that. It only says the fact about the NFP. And that’s proven. Not all women have regular menstrual cycles FYI. Even it’s just 25% failure rate it is still too much to take a risk considering the severity of the effect of having unwanted pregnancy.
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And about the Church, it would be rather wise to say nothing about something that you don’t know.
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And who do you think you are to tell me I don’t know anything about the church? I’ve been there FYI. I just happened to learn how to open my eyes and stop being blind and hypocrite.
“Then let me clarify that the RH Bill doesn’t force anyone to use condoms.”
True. But the thing is, it forces everybody (all taxpayers) to buy condoms and other contraceptives to be used by who knows who.
“Religion shouldn’t be used as an argument because not everyone belongs to the same faith as yours.”
But you’re missing the point. It violates the innate rights and the constitutional rights of the citizens, especially of parents and health care providers. It is not even about religion.
“Democracy? What? To force your belief system upon others? Not everyone agrees with you that using condoms is wrong.”
Wrong. RH Bill is the one who wants to impose its beliefs on everyone. We don’t believe in contraception, therefore, the government should not force us to pay for those. We don’t believe in contraceptive sex education, so the government should not impose that on us — and need not to say, it should respect our rights as parents to educate our children according to our religious convictions. Actually, the Constitution is the first to recognize it. Not all health care providers believe that it is moral and ethical to use emergency contraceptives, and the government should respect that. Not all employers can supply contraceptives to their employees without violating their conscience, and the government should recognize that. Not all students believe in the bill’s concept of sexuality, and they should not be forced to take that as a curriculum. It’s not about the Church imposing something on everyone; it’s the other way around.
“According to the Guttmacher Institute, NFP has a 25.3% failure rate and results in 35% of abortions.”
Guttmacher Institute just happened to be the research arm of Planned Parenthood, which in turn is the largest abortion provider in the US, and whose founder — Margaret Sanger — is the promoter of all this contraception/abortion/sexual rights legalization. And to use the term “NFP” for a research, instead of the actual method is devious. You would not just say artificial birth control or contraceptives; rather, you would say, OCP, condom, IUD, etc. Planned Parenthood is full of lies and deceptions; what can you expect?
“Thanks for forbidding the use of condoms, mothers are now forced to abort instead of preventing the conception.”
That claim is baseless. Women who can take abortion without remorse can do it again and again every time contraceptives fail. That’s true in other countries, and that’s true in the Philippines. The US Supreme Court even mentioned that in its Planned Parenthood vs Casey ruling.
Furthermore, even Dr. Malcom Potts, who is the former medical director of International Planned Parenthood Federation said that, “As people turn to contraception, there will be a rise, not a fall, in the abortion rate.”
“If they only knew they could let their partners use condoms…”
No one is prohibiting them to use condoms. Reproductive health propagandists always use the term choice, hoping to create a popular belief that some groups are preventing the people to choose. On the contrary, they are the ones who prevent people from choosing.
**No need to repeat the whole argument, I have already showed how coercive this bill is. It would even imprison (you heard it right!) those who will strictly follow their conscience.**
“RH Bill doesn’t say anything like that.”
It’s not like, “We didn’t see it. Surely, it’s not there.” You haven’t seen the word “emergency contraceptives” but that’s technically there. One of the bill’s self-contradiction is the proposal that there should not be bias between natural and artificial method, and yet it creates that bias — as your arguments against NFP proves. Yet, you are wrong when you claimed that the bill talks about the so-called “facts” about NFP. It didn’t (at least, not in the text).
“And who do you think you are to tell me I don’t know anything about the church? I’ve been there FYI. I just happened to learn how to open my eyes and stop being blind and hypocrite.”
I just happened to be a Catholic who knows and can defend my faith. You haven’t been there. Even if you’re a bishop, a priest, or a religious, it easily shows that you don’t know the Church. Believing that you’ve been there and being actually there are two different things. You can be inside your house and be not there at the same time. That’s your case.
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True. But the thing is, it forces everybody (all taxpayers) to buy condoms and other contraceptives to be used by who knows who.
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That is like saying we are all forced to kill if we have this AFP that we pay with our taxes. So if people of other faiths disagree with war and killing the enemies, rebels, and terrorists of the state, should we now abolish the AFP? Nope, we can’t allow that kind of reasoning. All we can do about them is to let them not engage in the front-line when we are at war. It’s all about the common good regardless of faith.
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But you’re missing the point. It violates the innate rights and the constitutional rights of the citizens, especially of parents and health care providers. It is not even about religion.
Wrong. RH Bill is the one who wants to impose its beliefs on everyone. We don’t believe in contraception, therefore, the government should not force us to pay for those.
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We are already forced to pay for anything that the government think is good for us such as funding the AFP even if people of other faiths disagree with it. If you’re going to disagree, you must use reason and not religion. I for one, is forced to pay my taxes so that the government can provide free education for children of parents who failed to provide to their children even if I’m against it. If your religion is against education, you still have to pay your taxes. No one has to be an exception because his faith says so. If you want to disagree, then use a sound argument why it would be better for our people without using religion.
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Actually, the Constitution is the first to recognize it. Not all health care providers believe that it is moral and ethical to use emergency contraceptives, and the government should respect that.
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You’re using religion again.
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Not all employers can supply contraceptives to their employees without violating their conscience, and the government should recognize that.
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If that supplies are funded by the government then I wouldn’t mind. But if it’s going to be paid directly by the employers, then I disagree on that part.
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Not all students believe in the bill’s concept of sexuality, and they should not be forced to take that as a curriculum. It’s not about the Church imposing something on everyone; it’s the other way around.
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If we’re going to accept that, then we can remove religion and theology as well because not all students believe in one particular religion.
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That claim is baseless. Women who can take abortion without remorse can do it again and again every time contraceptives fail.
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Only when the contraceptive fails. If a woman has 99% chance of having a baby, she would have aborted 1 baby instead of 100 babies. That is still far better than 25 aborted babies for natural method.
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**No need to repeat the whole argument, I have already showed how coercive this bill is. It would even imprison (you heard it right!) those who will strictly follow their conscience.**
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If that’s how you define coercion then I must admit that the bill is coercive. And so as the GSIS, SSS, PAG-IBIG, etc. Now how are we going to tell our government on how to spend our taxes? If you’re going to put an argument, please refrain from using religion or else we would be left with nothing. Hindus forbid eating beef. Muslims forbid eating pork. Vegetarians forbid eating meat. Is the government now forbidden to provide any food in a calamity? Of course not but they should provide you with choices at least.
If you’re going to go against the bill, use an argument such as why population isn’t a problem.
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I just happened to be a Catholic who knows and can defend my faith. You haven’t been there. Even if you’re a bishop, a priest, or a religious, it easily shows that you don’t know the Church. Believing that you’ve been there and being actually there are two different things. You can be inside your house and be not there at the same time. That’s your case.
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You’re telling me that I haven’t been there just because I’m no longer a believer, is that it? Check your line of reasoning.
Because we’re a secular state. Not all Filipinos are Catholics or Protestants or Muslims. Some are even atheists. To be fair, religion should not interfere which I think is just consistent with our constitution that mandates to separate the Church and the State.
–> You are right. The Church and State are separate. But since the State has created a bill which affects the moral life of the person, the Church interferes because it is there duty. That is the reason why church leaders may be included in this statement. That is true for Catholics.
Not having unwanted pregnancies is a good benefit for a poor couple.
–> The best benefit is for the couple to have discipline on themselves. They are supposedly be married before having sex. And they are supposedly financially stable before getting married. Because Filipinos lack discipline, unwanted pregnancies for poor couple exists. Contraceptives is not just the only and best way.
HOw did it contradict section 10? I don’t get your point here.
–> This proves you did not scrutinize the Bill after all. You only see the cover of the book, not the contents.
I thought you said you’re not going to use religion as argument to oppose the bill.
–> Morality doesn’t need religion. You as an atheist is moral because you do good to people.
LOL nice one. I recommend watching Kama Sutra. But seriously, RH doesn’t say anything about that.
–> But it implicitly say about that.
Would you prefer your children to have sex without contraceptives? It’s better to have it than none if they’re going to do it anyways. Can you imagine having a 10-year old father as your child?
–> Why let them have sex instead? Twist your mind, tester$$$. What is your reaction when you hear a 15 year old girl having a baby? Do you blame her because the boy is not using contraception when they had sex? Or you blame her because she do sex? (maybe because of her horniness) You having said that, you are implying that it is okay for 10 year old child to have sex. Teach sex on your 10-year old children if you can. If you don’t have children, teach your child neighbor such.
As I have said in my previous post, over supply of man power in the workforce leads to lower salaries, lower purchasing power and finally poverty. Balance is the key.
–> To add on my last post as reply to your comment, saying that oversupply of manpower leads to lower salaries is just an intuition. Philippines would still have the poor and the rich. Philippines would still have the educated and non-education just like other countries do. The point may be not to increase the number of people anymore. Well, we can by not using contraceptives as i have explained before. (Lazy couples often have many children than busy ones). When you increase your knowledge, you have a full grasp of what is needed in the country, resources in particulay, maybe without a great deal of money. I am afraid to think that you are implying to say that you are contented with the way of thinking of the Filipinos today. If that’s the case, you have a problem overseeing many things.
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You are right. The Church and State are separate. But since the State has created a bill which affects the moral life of the person, the Church interferes because it is there duty. That is the reason why church leaders may be included in this statement. That is true for Catholics.
UNQUOTE
You mean it affects the Church’s duty to impose their belief system upon others, right?
QUOTE
The best benefit is for the couple to have discipline on themselves. They are supposedly be married before having sex. And they are supposedly financially stable before getting married. Because Filipinos lack discipline, unwanted pregnancies for poor couple exists. Contraceptives is not just the only and best way.
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It may not be the best way but it is still one of the ways. If couples want to get married at the legal age, why would you prevent them? Couples have the right to have sex without intention of having a baby and there’s nothing wrong about it. It doesn’t hurt you nor anyone else if they have sex. As long as they don’t breach your rights it’s none of our concern.
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This proves you did not scrutinize the Bill after all. You only see the cover of the book, not the contents.
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I didn’t see any contradiction on it. Why don’t you discuss it here?
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Why let them have sex instead? Twist your mind, tester$$$.
UNQUOTE
The bill doesn’t anything like that.
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What is your reaction when you hear a 15 year old girl having a baby?
UNQUOTE
My reaction is “W T F! It’s too early for them! They should have, at least, use contraceptives!”
You see, contraceptive is still better than having none. I know that it’s not right for them to engage in sex for such an early age but is it still much worse if they didn’t use contraceptives. And that’s the whole point.
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To add on my last post as reply to your comment, saying that oversupply of manpower leads to lower salaries is just an intuition. Philippines would still have the poor and the rich.
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I agree. But it would lessen poverty to great extent. And hard working skilled professional can finally taste the fruits of their labor unlike right now, most talented Filipinos are begging to hired outside their own country just to get a decent-paying job.
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Well, we can by not using contraceptives as i have explained before. (Lazy couples often have many children than busy ones). When you increase your knowledge, you have a full grasp of what is needed in the country, resources in particulay, maybe without a great deal of money.
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I’m afraid not. We have to wait for our economy to grow to be able to create more jobs and more investors. Decent paying jobs require a number of decent investors which of course deals with a lot of money. If our population grows faster than our economy, we would go nowhere but in the mud while the gap between the rich and the poor widens as the rich exploits the growing number of laborers.
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I am afraid to think that you are implying to say that you are contented with the way of thinking of the Filipinos today. If that’s the case, you have a problem overseeing many things.
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I think you have a problem of overseeing how the law of supply and demand prevails. Mess with the balance and this is the result.
i just want to express my opinion bwt this issue……..
first, yes RH Bill never mention to legalized abortion in the country but does it comes to your mind thinking bwt how people would handle this law? there would be misinterpretation with regards to its provisions..knowing that its purpose is to lessen the country’s population, wat if people will ask u this ” is abortion not a way of preventing Rapid Population Growth??” how will u answer???? …well, information campaign wud do….. but try to see how teenagers wud react with this…. we all know that PMS is now rampant in the society esp. to teenagers…… would this law prevent the greater possibility of teenagers doing/going into abortion??????? yes i agree with the use of contraceptives but not to the extent that the teens will be allow to access or to buy nor to use such thing??????
im still a teenagers yet i know its possibility and consequences….. GANITO NA BA TAU KA DESPERADO? KUNG ANG BATAS NA ITO AY PARA SA SINASABI NILANG SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT, ITO BA ANG PINAKA-EPEKTIBONG SOLUSYON? HOW BWT THE RAMPANT GRAFT AND CORRUPTION IN THE GOVERNMENT? KUNG ANG BATAS NA ITO AY MAISAKATUPARAN, CAN U PROMISE US THE YOUTH/TEENAGERS NA MADAMA NAMIN ANG PAG-UNLAD NG BANSA? MAGAGAWA BA NITONG BAGUHIN ANG MUKHA NG KAHIRAPAN SA BANSA? MAGAGHAWA BA NITONG ILAGAY ANG PILIPINAS SA HANAY NG MGA MAYAYAMANG BANSA SA MUNDO?????
KUNG PINAGTUUNAN LANG SANA NG PANSIN NG PAMAHALAAN ANG CORRUPTION SIGURO MALASAP NAMIN ANG MATAGAL NAMING PINGARAP NA KAUNLARAN NG BANSA…… KUNG PINAIRAL SANA NG MGA NASA KAPANGYARIHAN ANG KANILANG PAGIGING MAKABANSA? KUNG IWINAGLIT NILA ANG PAGIGING MAKASARILI? ALAM KUNG ALAM NU ANG KALALABASAN NG LAHAT….. TOTOONG KAUNLARAN……MINSAN NGA NAISIP NAMING MGA KABATAAN NA MAS MABUTI PA SIGORU NA ANG BANSA AY NANATILING KOLONYA NG AMERICA……. MAUNLAD PA SIGURO ITO……
HINDI KO MASISI ANG MGA DAYUHAN NA GAMITIN AT PAGHARIAN ANG ATING MGA LAKAS NA YAMAN…….. SAPAGKAT ANG PAMAHALAAN AY WALANG IBANG INIISIP KUNDI ANG PAGPAPAYAAMN SA KANILANG SARILI…… WAG NAMAN SANANG UMABOT SA PANAHON NA KAMING MGA KABATAAN AY WALA NANG PANGHAHAWAKAN SA MUNDO………….
SA MGA TAONG NAKAKABASA NITO LALONG-LALO NA SA MGA MAGULANG,ALAM KONG MAGKAIBA TAU NG OPINYON…..
SANA NAMAN MAISIP NU NA KAMING MGA KABATAAN NGAUN AY SYANG NAHIHIRAPAN SA LAHAT NA PINAGGAGAWA NG MGA NASA KAPANGYARIHAN….. SANA BIGYAN NU KAMI NG KAHIT KUNTING PAG-ASA PARA PATULOY NAMING BAGTASIN ANG AMNG MGA PANGARAP….. SANA TULUNGAN NU KAMING BIGYANG KATUPARAN ANG SINASABI NI DR. RIZAL NA KAMI NAG PAG-ASA NG BAYAN??…… SANA BIGYAN NU KAMI NG PAGKAKATAONG MAMUHAY SA MUNDO NA MAY DANGAL…… MORALITY AND DIGNITY…… KAHIT YAN LANG…… SANA BIGYAN NU KAMI NG MUKHANG IHAHARAP SA POONG MAYLIKHA SA ORAS NG KANYANG PAGHUHUKOM,,……SANA NAMAN…………
NO TO RH BILL, NO TO CORRUPTION……
YES TO GOD……
You cannot insist on putting words in my mouth. There is no over supply of manpower. Law of supply and demand is true but that does not mean that your statistics is accurate.
I don’t consider P12,000 underpayment. As of those who have lower pay, I would say that the job they are seeking is not the only kind of job in the country. Besides, rich people — those who made it — believe that it’s not how much money you have, but how you use it. There are many cases of people who earn great amount of money because of high-paying jobs, but after years or even months, they go bankrupt. Is it because they don’t have enough money? No. They millions of it. It is rather because of their attitude towards money. Thousands of OFWs are not exempted. They seek for high-pay but after settling back in the country, they’re also back to where they came from — financial struggle.
You were forced not because there are no jobs in the country but because the job that you are looking for have lesser pay, and you cannot qualify to the high-paying jobs out there. It does not mean that you absolutely cannot fit to the coveted high-paying job but you would rather look for a job that you can do outside the country, instead of pushing yourself to be qualified here. Again, it is not meant to underestimate anyone but to show that we are in charge — we choose. There are OFWs that complains about their struggles and ended up working here and became millionaires. Just to emphasize again, they became successful here, not outside.
Wrong analogy. It’s not an exaggeration to say that all taxpayers believe in security. Nobody wants to be hurt or to be attacked. Tax money for contraceptives is not about security — pregnancy is not an enemy.
I can’t see where are you concluding from. You always use the word “religion” and yet I don’t even say anything about God, worship, or anything like that. The word “belief” is a general English term and is not necessarily religious.
Security and education is about promotion of life — that is the duty of the State, and it is just right that they use tax money for that. Not all people would agree that their money be used for hospitals, roads, and other infrastructures outside their own town or city, but that is about promotion of life, so it’s everybody’s duty. On the contrary, contraception is against conception. It’s about demotion of life. However, all Filipinos have the same innate right and constitutional right to choose regarding parenthood, so whoever wants to contracept can do so.
Religion is “a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.” Ethics and morality is not necessarily religious, although almost all religions have its set of moral standard. Hippocratic Oath is not a religious covenant, and many physicians believe that contraception — and abortion, regardless how early or how late — is a grave violation of this medical promise.
The government does not supply paracetamol, pain reliever, antibiotic, and other private company clinic’s needs, and neither will it fund contraceptives. As the text says, it concerns the CBA and not the government. This clause alone is enough to see the way the proponents of this bill think.
I was confused by that. Maybe you are trying to say that we should remove Religion and Theology — that is, as school subjects. I don’t think that would be necessary nor is it practical. First of, Theology subject is religion-dependent. You will get Protestant theology from a Protestant school, while you will get Catholic theology from a Catholic school — not in public schools (at least, that’s what I know). Religion, on the other hand, is a foundational subject. You don’t want your children to be intentionally indifferent about religion at a very early age, because being so would also make them indifferent about life’s purpose and about morality — that is, whether an act is good or evil. We know that most of suicide cases have something to do with sense of purpose. But at the end of the day, it would still be up to the school administration whether they would accept the Church’s offer to teach Religion.
That’s not how simple it is. Margaret Sanger is the origin of that globally-accepted claim but within her lifetime, she was also the one that proved the opposite. And again, as Malcom Potts said, contraceptive mentality does not minimize abortion cases but the contrary.
Again, GSIS, SSS, PAG-IBIG, and other institutions like that are meant to promote life and security. Furthermore, they respect religion. You will not see policies that directly violate Muslim and Christian beliefs. And if the government — and any other sensitive charity groups — will give foods to calamity victims, they would not give meat to a Muslim community. They would not even dare say that they are just giving them choices. That would be an offense.
The problem with this bill is not just population-related; it is more of human rights violations and coercions. This is the only bill that has a touch of communism.
Well, I don’t want this part to be prolonged, but you are wrong with your interpretation. I said you can be inside your house and not be home at the same time. You thought you once believed the Church but in reality, you did not; that is because you don’t understand its teachings in the first place. This is not to offend you or anybody; it just happened that you have a different belief (you thought it was Catholic) even when you were “in” the Church. It is not an uncommon case, that is why there are books, blogs, sites, and events which purpose is to rightly interpret the Church’s teachings. We can drop off religion topic from here.
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Wrong analogy. It’s not an exaggeration to say that all taxpayers believe in security. Nobody wants to be hurt or to be attacked. Tax money for contraceptives is not about security — pregnancy is not an enemy.
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Maybe I should make it clearer this time. There are religion who forbids killing literally regardless if its for self defense or security. The reason? Because of their faith. It is not because they don’t want security, they want security but they don’t want the killings. So are we now supposed to ban the AFP from devising deadly weapons and use batons in war instead?
Yes, I agree that pregnancy is not a enemy. Unwanted pregnancy is the enemy. To prevent unwanted pregnancy, we have a choice of either natural or artificial. But if you really don’t want to take much risk, of course, latex would be a better choice. Abstinence is 100% but it’s not really an option for others. We’re just humans; we have sexual needs.
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I can’t see where are you concluding from. You always use the word “religion” and yet I don’t even say anything about God, worship, or anything like that. The word “belief” is a general English term and is not necessarily religious.
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Are you really not using religion? Then why do you think using condom is wrong? Because having sex without the intention of having a baby is wrong? Who told you? Tell me.
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Security and education is about promotion of life — that is the duty of the State, and it is just right that they use tax money for that. Not all people would agree that their money be used for hospitals, roads, and other infrastructures outside their own town or city, but that is about promotion of life, so it’s everybody’s duty.
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You now finally understood my point. Moving on.
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On the contrary, contraception is against conception. It’s about demotion of life.
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How did you arrive at that conclusion that using a condom is about demotion of life? No matter how hard I try to put myself on your shoes I can only think that the only reason behind that logic is religion.
To me the demotion of life is to bring life into this world that you cannot support. Tell me how is that not evil.
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The government does not supply paracetamol, pain reliever, antibiotic, and other private company clinic’s needs, and neither will it fund contraceptives. As the text says, it concerns the CBA and not the government. This clause alone is enough to see the way the proponents of this bill think.
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I must admit you have a point there. No contest. I believe the government should reduce the burden on the employers because employers are the wealth creators of the economy.
The only thing that I wanted is to balance the proportion of employees and employers without forcing anyone to quit their passion to their work and go for an MLM business because they’re simply too many in the same field such as nursing. Remember that not everyone likes the job of selling and marketing. I know that it is impossible to be like Henry Sy without becoming an entreprenuer but at least give the skilled professionals the choice to have a decent lifestyle while keeping the job that they like. And yes, we are able to get a decent life by going overseas. If we’re going to do the same job there in the Philippines, that would be impossible.
My context of over population is not the number of people over land area, it’s the number of people per number of available jobs. If the balance is maintained, no Filipinos would sacrifice themselves to work overseas to get a decent paying jobs.
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You don’t want your children to be intentionally indifferent about religion at a very early age, because being so would also make them indifferent about life’s purpose and about morality — that is, whether an act is good or evil.
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I disagree. Life’s purpose and its meaning is subjective. What’s the meaning of life? To serve god. What for? For his glory. What for? What for? You see, it is still pointless. It doesn’t make any difference if I say “To me, the meaning of life is to reject ignorance and to accept reason. To reject superstition and promote science.” The bottom line is we make own purpose and meaning in life.
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We know that most of suicide cases have something to do with sense of purpose.
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Probably. But as I said, anyone can give their own life a meaning with or without a god.
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Again, GSIS, SSS, PAG-IBIG, and other institutions like that are meant to promote life and security. Furthermore, they respect religion. You will not see policies that directly violate Muslim and Christian beliefs.
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they would not give meat to a Muslim community. They would not even dare say that they are just giving them choices.
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Of coure, they would ask them if they want vegetarian or Halal foods. That is still a choice.
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The problem with this bill is not just population-related; it is more of human rights violations and coercions. This is the only bill that has a touch of communism.
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That is the only reason I could consider. As much as I’m against socialism, communism, fascism and altrusim, I am left with no other choice because I strongly believe that our population is imbalanced. The thing that I would wish for next to RH bill is a bill that will criminalize all parents who are not able to provide to their children. After all, those children weren’t offered a choice to accept or reject life.
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You thought you once believed the Church but in reality, you did not; that is because you don’t understand its teachings in the first place.
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And your basis is? Because I now accept contraception and left the church? Is that it?
Just in case that religion really exists in our country, they have the right to demand appropriate actions from the government to be protected against violation of conscience/beliefs if ever they see any violation at all. There should be no question about that. We are not in a communist country; meaning, individual rights are still preferred over the subjective perception of “common good”. US thinks that abortion is for common good but we don’t believe as they do, so if time would come that there will be a legislative proposal to legalize abortion — as is being suggested by a Filipino feminist lawyer — then we will do the same, that is, we will invoke our rights against the proposal even if it’s masked with the title of “common good”.
To completely eliminate unwanted pregnancy, what we should do is to want it. That is the responsible way to do it. There will always be unwanted pregnancies as long as you don’t start wanting it. Now, in the case of unintended pregnancies, responsible couples exert effort. Either effort to understand fertility (condom use is not an effort at all — all the more if the device is freely given) or effort to raise the family’s standard of living. Philippines is not exempted from the truth that if you truly want to achieve something, you can do it, but not without effort. Actually, we have our own version: “Kung gusto, may paraan; kung ayaw, may dahilan.” Artificial method is an artificial (unreal) solution to the problem of poverty. There is truth in the saying that goes, “Kung maikli ang kumot, matutong mamaluktot” — live below your means — but it should not remain as it is; the real solution is a proactive one. The saying should continue thus: “…at patuloy na magsikap para makabili ng bago.” We should not be contented waiting for the economy to boom, waiting for the government to do something, waiting for the investors to come, waiting for a high-paying job, waiting for an employer to hire us. Being reactive, instead of proactive, will just give us a mediocre mind and a mediocre life. The question should not be, “Can I do it?” but rather, “How can I do it?” Whatever decent work one would come up with, hard work, and not convenience, should be the determining factor.
Using condom is wrong simply because the penis and the vagina were not designed for that. Do I have to explain how come? Anyway, because human anatomy and human physiology tell us so — actually, even the human psychology. How? If we, whom you said have sexual needs, begin to indiscriminately use our faculties just for the sake of pleasure, both anatomy and physiology will be arbitrarily manipulated (as is already happening), dignity and life will be disrespected (as is already happening), and everything will be out of order one by one (as is already happening). Why? Because unbridled drives can become an addiction; and we know that addiction can translate to anything chaotic. It doesn’t take any religion to realize that.
Because that is your paradigm: Anything that would not fit your logic is illogical, and illogical also means religion. However hard you come to think of it, your conclusion will always be the same.
Now, here is where I am coming from regarding demotion of life. We are thinking and moral beings — moral, that is, making active decisions according to what we believe is good (not necessarily religious). We have instincts but it is the will that determines our actions (although, that is not always the case). To give in to the instincts, putting the will under it, is choosing to be more animal than human. To put pleasure above the natural balance of the body is a violation of one’s own body and dignity — and ultimately, of one’s own life; not to mention the thousands of others’ lives. Murder is a result of instinct over will, and so is abortion, and so is rape, and so is stealing, and so are the myriad of offenses against fellow human beings. Contraception is a reflection of the inward disposition to put pleasure over natural balance, which also means putting the will under the power of instinct. Well, I don’t think I have to repeat words over and over to conclude this. Everything is there, just find the other end of the circle.
Of course, irresponsibility is not good. Parents should nurture and correctly educate their children. Those who are not ready to be parents, in my opinion, should not be married yet. It is another story, though, if the couple believe that they can complement so well that they can raise their economic status together when they already married.
This is where imbalance shows its effect. What happened to the “nursing boom”? Well, it did not exploded for good but for great frustrations and disappointments. It is because many Filipinos now don’t work for passion but for money. The rule, supposedly, should be, “Do the work that you love and money will follow.” What happened was they confused the philosophy and made it like, “Do the work that will give you much money, whether you love it or not doesn’t matter.” Then came imbalance. Those who have the passion don’t have the work. Again, the wrong mentality is to be blamed. It was, is, and will always be the villain.
Now, I myself hate selling, but the question now is, “Do I want to be wealthy?” If the answer is yes, then the decision would be not just to do what I like, but to do whatever it takes. Why wealth is so important? Because success really means to be able to do what you really love. You cannot do that when you’re worrying about tomorrow’s budget, and the monthly dues, and everything. But if you are already wealthy — that is, you can even stop doing your current job and still live — you can start doing what you love. If you love painting, you can paint anytime; if you love caring for the elderly, you can do so; if you are an unemployed MD and you love the profession, you can start your own clinic or even hospital. In short, you are worry-free and able. Since imbalance is everywhere, we cannot be reactive but proactive. Love the work that you have now, be wealthy, and do the work that you love later.
You can be in the Philippines and be successful. Manny Pangilinan was an OFW but he’s here now and is very successful; not just because he is working in a successful company but because he owns big companies. He is just one of the thousands of Filipinos who are in the country and who are successful.
I think I have already addressed this. We need to start changing our mentalities now. These imbalances are results of it.
It is not pointless…you just can’t see the point. However, since the thread is not about religion, I will just leave it there. Life is what we make it, that’s true, but when it comes to the purpose of life itself, there must be one. You can use a coffee mug to drink fruit juices but its purpose really is to be used for coffee. You can even use a bedpan as your plate, but it has its different intended purpose. You can do anything you want with anything but its intended purpose cannot just be anything. Well, anyway, if you — I really mean, you — have sent yourself to a good mission in this life, I think that is good enough to make you worthy of praise and good life.
If you are an atheist, I think the argument is good enough (although, we, theists look at it in a different angle, and so we demand more from ourselves). The worst thing that could happen to a man is to lose a sense of meaning.
I believe otherwise. There must be something wrong in the entirety of the motives if the proponents go to the extreme of resorting to anti-democratic approach.
Life is the default, it cannot be death because death is non-existing; it is just the absence of life. So if ever given a choice, all children will choose life regardless of the circumstances because life is presented as a gift and not as a curse. Now, as I have quoted earlier, “Life is what we make it.”
Because people with Catholic mind remain Catholics — which just makes sense. If one is no longer Catholic, it is because he did not become one in the first place. “They went out from us though they did not really belong to us. Had they belonged to us, they would have remained with us. So it became clear that not all of us were really ours.” That’s exactly my point.
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Just in case that religion really exists in our country, they have the right to demand appropriate actions from the government to be protected against violation of conscience/beliefs if ever they see any violation at all.
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Paying your taxes for it doesn’t force you to use contraceptives. It is your duty to pay your taxes regardless where the government allocates it. If your religion prohibits killing, it should not stop government from funding its army just because it violates your religion or belief system. The same thing with contraceptives, your belief system should not interfere with the government to protect children from being born from irresponsible parents who can’t provide their basic social needs. Remember that it is not only meant for the couples but to protect the children too against suffering and deprivation of basic social needs.
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individual rights are still preferred over the subjective perception of “common good”.
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It is not an individual right to dictate the government that it should not spend its fund to the things that is against your belief system.
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To completely eliminate unwanted pregnancy, what we should do is to want it.
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So you rather pretend than face the truth that you can’t afford to have a baby. Just to remind you, not all people are capable of raising dozens of children. Would you feel good if you were born by irresponsible parents? Do you know what it feels like not to be provided with basic social needs?
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That is the responsible way to do it. There will always be unwanted pregnancies as long as you don’t start wanting it.
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That is called hypocrisy.
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Being reactive, instead of proactive, will just give us a mediocre mind and a mediocre life. The question should not be, “Can I do it?” but rather, “How can I do it?” Whatever decent work one would come up with, hard work, and not convenience, should be the determining factor.
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Not all hard-working people are successful. When you can’t afford, don’t get it. If you know you cannot afford to have a baby, then don’t have one. But that should not prevent you from having sex. Optimism is good but if it goes too far it is dangerous not only to you but to the child your going to raise as well. If you do, your chances of becoming successful becomes slimmer as your expenses to child care balloons. Simple math, really.
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Using condom is wrong simply because the penis and the vagina were not designed for that.
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Flawed logic. It’s like saying using computers is wrong because humans are not designed for that. Computers are designed for human use and the condoms as well.
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Do I have to explain how come? Anyway, because human anatomy and human physiology tell us so — actually, even the human psychology. How? If we, whom you said have sexual needs, begin to indiscriminately use our faculties just for the sake of pleasure, both anatomy and physiology will be arbitrarily manipulated (as is already happening), dignity and life will be disrespected
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It’s just your belief system. Using condoms doesn’t degrade anyone. Using condoms doesn’t lose your dignity.
In fact, if I know that you can’t afford to have a baby and you don’t use condoms when having sex, I will even condemn you for getting a chance of bringing up a child to life of suffering because you can’t afford to give him/her the social infrastructure he/she will need.
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Because that is your paradigm: Anything that would not fit your logic is illogical, and illogical also means religion. However hard you come to think of it, your conclusion will always be the same.
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Are you now against logic? That’s what I hate about religions, they hate logic but at the same time they keep on trying to reason out why. You can’t reason out without using logic in the first place. If you don’t want to use logic then don’t try to reason out, just speak randomly or speak in tongues.
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We are thinking and moral beings — moral, that is, making active decisions according to what we believe is good (not necessarily religious).
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Using condoms is not immoral. It is only your belief system that says so.
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To put pleasure above the natural balance of the body is a violation of one’s own body and dignity — and ultimately, of one’s own life;
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Again, that is just your belief system. Sex is a gift to couples. No one has the right to prevent them from having it.
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not to mention the thousands of others’ lives. Murder is a result of instinct over will, and so is abortion, and so is rape, and so is stealing, and so are the myriad of offenses against fellow human beings.
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And so as giving birth to a child that you cannot support socially and financially. That is immoral.
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Contraception is a reflection of the inward disposition to put pleasure over natural balance, which also means putting the will under the power of instinct. Well, I don’t think I have to repeat words over and over to conclude this. Everything is there, just find the other end of the circle.
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Again that is just your anti-pleasure belief system.
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Of course, irresponsibility is not good. Parents should nurture and correctly educate their children. Those who are not ready to be parents, in my opinion, should not be married yet.
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Now you’re thinking.
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It is another story, though, if the couple believe that they can complement so well that they can raise their economic status together when they alrea
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It’s better to be safe than sorry that it’s too late that you just realized that you can’t afford your 13th child anymore.
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This is where imbalance shows its effect. What happened to the “nursing boom”? Well, it did not exploded for good but for great frustrations and disappointments. It is because many Filipinos now don’t work for passion but for money.
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True because becoming passionate about your job that pays you peanuts is not worthy of family’s financial instability. The reason why the jobs that they are passionate about only pay a fraction is because of imbalance in the population. If the population is balanced then people can now start working on the job they love AND at the same time earn a decent living.
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The rule, supposedly, should be, “Do the work that you love and money will follow.”
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That rule is brilliant. But it was destroyed by the imbalance in our population. Now, you cannot always have the work you love AND earn decent at the same time. Remember, it is the law of supply and demand that dictates the prices including man power.
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Now, I myself hate selling, but the question now is, “Do I want to be wealthy?” If the answer is yes, then the decision would be not just to do what I like, but to do whatever it takes.
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We should be able to become wealthy just by loving our work! We should not be choosing between work and wealth. We should be able to choose both. But because of overpopulation this has become almost impossible to achieve without working abroad.
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Why wealth is so important? Because success really means to be able to do what you really love. You cannot do that when you’re worrying about tomorrow’s budget, and the monthly dues, and everything. But if you are already wealthy — that is, you can even stop doing your current job and still live — you can start doing what you love. If you love painting, you can paint anytime; if you love caring for the elderly, you can do so; if you are an unemployed MD and you love the profession, you can start your own clinic or even hospital. In short, you are worry-free and able. Since imbalance is everywhere, we cannot be reactive but proactive. Love the work that you have now, be wealthy, and do the work that you love later.
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I agree with this. But mind my previous statements. I am proactive by supporting the RH Bill to help bring back the balance that is destroyed by irresponsible parents.
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You can be in the Philippines and be successful. Manny Pangilinan was an OFW but he’s here now and is very successful; not just because he is working in a successful company but because he owns big companies. He is just one of the thousands of Filipinos who are in the country and who are successful.
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I am successful too and I’m just an OFW. Doing the same job there in the PH won’t help me achieve this. I just want the Filipino people to experience success without forcing them to leave their job, their passion. As much as I want to work there, I can’t. It cannot provide me a decent life unless I quit the job and forget my career that I’m passionate about.
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Life is the default, it cannot be death because death is non-existing; it is just the absence of life.
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I disagree. Death is the termination of life and not the absence of life itself. You cannot experience death without having a life first.
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So if ever given a choice, all children will choose life regardless of the circumstances because life is presented as a gift and not as a curse.
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I disagree. Life full of suffering is not better than no life at all. That’s why there are suicide cases becasue not everyone agrees with your world view.
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Now, as I have quoted earlier, “Life is what we make it.”
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How we grew up, how we are supported, allows us to take chance to be the maker of our life. A child born with social and financial support will have a higher chances of becoming a productive citizen than a child who is deprived. I agree that there’s still human factor here but my statement remains a fact. By becoming a responsible parent and providing your child its social and financial needs, there’s a higher chances of that child becoming a successful person than none. Those people who rose up from rags to riches are commendable people, I agree. But consider them as gifted and exceptional if not lucky. Not all people have such feats and not all people are that tough. In fact, most people in poverty stays in poverty and that is much more significant indicators than the exceptional people you mentioned.
The bottomline is that it is a child’s right to have access to financial and social support. If couples can’t give those, I say they better use contraceptives than bring up a life just to end up in suffering.
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Because people with Catholic mind remain Catholics — which just makes sense. If one is no longer Catholic, it is because he did not become one in the first place. “They went out from us though they did not really belong to us. Had they belonged to us, they would have remained with us. So it became clear that not all of us were really ours.” That’s exactly my point.
UNQUOTE
That is called the “No True Scotsman Fallacy” try searching on it on wiki. There’s is no such definition as only true Catholics remain Catholic. Your future actions don’t tell you who you are in the past. If you were a true Catholic in the past, leaving Catholicism in the future doesn’t change the fact that you’ve been a true Catholic in the past.
Since all of your answers throughout the thread are determined by your paradigm that I am just coming from my belief system — as if you are not — then my final answer would be as simple as yours: “It is just your belief system.” However scientific, philosophical, logical, political, medical, etc. I would express the arguments, your brain will always say, “It is just your belief system.” It closes the debate from there.
It’s because you are all basing it from your personal belief and not something that will benefit the common good. Try a different approach, try looking at economic perspective. Try detaching from a belief and be objective. Try to look at things without a touch of your belief system.
All my arguments so far are detached from any religion. It’s all based upon the benefits of humanity and not of any particular religion.
“…try looking at economic perspective.”
That’s what you are doing — looking from economic perspective “alone”, as if man is a pig that only lives to eat. But even from that angle, your perception is inaccurate. To blame the population for the country’s poverty is to distract everybody’s mind from the real problem, which is unequal distribution of wealth.
No enough budget for education. No enough budget for livelihood. No enough budget for calamities. No enough budget for health. No enough budget for everything. Why? Is it because the country is really poor? You should know the answer why.
Don’t say, “There are many factors but population is one of the biggest,” because that would not make any sense. The government should FOCUS on the main problem, put all its energy to eliminate it completely, then we’ll all start from there.
There’s nothing wrong with your statement. I know that overpopulation is not the only problem. Regardless it is still a problem and solving it will reduce the problem of our country. It is still better than not not solving that part of the problem.
Overpopulation, corruption, lack of education, etc, if all of those problems are not solved majority of our citizens will remain living in poverty. ALL of them must be eliminated not only one.
It’s like saying what I have predicted: “There are many factors but population is one of the biggest.”
That is why I said, the government should FOCUS on the main problem.
“ALL of them must be eliminated not only one.”
Education is a secondary issue; meaning, it is a result of the main one. “Proper” education will redeem the country from poverty but until the problem that prevents the people from being properly educated, the status will remain. Less people does not mean more education nor more food. Those who have access to the wealth will continue to have it, and those who do not have will continue to have no access.
I know I’m shallow and stuff, but I want to say something;
Making Condoms part of essential medicines, will make it accessible to all?
So meaning a 5 year old boy can barge in a drug store buying condoms, lying to the cashier telling them that his parents ordered him to buy it.
Meaning if Condoms are Allowed,
the youth can do “Safe Sex”
the YOUTH, SAFE SEX
Safe sex is still “Premarital Sex” Right?
and that is so against the rules of religion.
and PARENTS,
do you want to see your adolescent children having “SAFE SEX” ?
Please explain the part of “Essential Medicine” because thats how I understood it
thanks
What? A 5-year old buying condoms? That’s preposterous. But if we assume that there will ever be one, it would render useless. A 5-year old boy would never produce sperm. His testicles or I mean his reproductive system isn’t mature enough to do so. It would be alarming for teens to be having safe sex but it’s much better than unprotected sex and unwanted pregnancy.
I got your point.
Do you really think that at that very young age condoms would even matter? No one can produce potent sperms at that age that could impregnate anyone. Have you even thought of this? And do you think not providing them with condoms would stop them from having sex? Not that I’m saying it’s OK for them to have sex, the point is, condoms won’t matter.
They could be having sex without condoms, no one would prevent them from doing so. You know what would prevent them? By educating them. Sex education will educate them everything about sex and its ramifications and consequences. If I were the author of that RH Bill I would even include a course that would teach our children how population affects the living standards of the middle class and of the people in general.
Repression and ignorance will lead to irresponsible sex. That explains why priests often commits child abuse.
–> You are implying that sex on kids is okay.
–> Sex education has already been taught in school nowadays even without the RH Bill. If you noticed, those who are engaged in unwanted pregnancies are those lovers who are free to do sex anytime and anywhere, especially those who are not busy doing productive works. Parents are responsible for this.
–> You don’t need to include a course about that because it has already been taught before the RH Bill is passed. Tester$$$, you may not have receive a quality education. You see? Philippines need quality education to educate people like you, not RH Bill. RH Bill is not the solution of all our problems, not even a part of it. Hardwork and commitment plays a greater role in improving Philippines to have quality education, jobs for those who have no jobs, etc.
–> The ratio of priests commiting child abuse to those who do not is 1:100. It is true that ignorance will lead to irresponsible sex. It is also true that incompetent and not proficient leaders are in turn leading incompetent and not proficient people. That is why you did not receive quality education as I have mentioned earlier.
you are wrong, condoms will still matter if a 5 yr old boy will have sex with a sick prostitute. he may want it for protection.
so i surmise you might want the rh bill to teach kids how to have sex properly. how to use techniques and stuff, so that they wont be doing sex for naught.
Probably you’d want them to learn the proper way to use a condom as well, like they should use it on their penises rather than on their fingers? Maybe showing them porno films will also teach them that the effect of sex (pormno movie) is pregnancy, so that you can teach them contraception? Or even better get them live models to actually watch so they will be sick of it they won’t even want to have sex. Best contraceptive there is.
people have the free will to choose, if you believe that this is not good for you then don’t mind or use this bill for you. this bill is useful for others who want to have services available to them.. for them to utilized. if you do not want any artificial family planning then dont use it and dont mind others using it.
this bill can help minimize poverty by those family that already have many children and for those planning to have a family to decide how many children they want or planned to have. what happened if they were many children in a family??.. it just lessen the privileges a child could have especially to the poor ones.. the chance to eat 3 times a day, to go to school.. to have a better life than those families with so many children that even their daily food is a problem.
–> So, unmarried couples can have sex? Children can have sex? You are thinking of your personal benefit. When you become a parent, you will understand that sex at 13 is not good.
–> Not as essential as it is. RH bill when become a law is just a waste of money. Why spend millions to provide condoms to immature and unmarried teenagers, rather than spending those money to improve the educational system (for example) of the Philippines? RH Bill as you’ve said as essential is essentially negligible.
–> There is nothing on contraception that talks about curing. In fact, it is inflicting diseases/viruses on one’s reproductive organ, especially to females, and may result to cancer.
–> Yes. But we can take away irresponsibility, immaturity, and promiscuity; and plug into our minds hardwork, responsiblity, love, and importance of human dignity (which differs us from dogs).
–> Nothing is wrong here. We are talking here of UNMARRIED and IRRESPONSIBLE COUPLES. These unmarried couples are USUALLY incapable of raising their children well. Couples should be financially stable so their kids won’t suffer.
–> Nothing is wrong here. “People can do whatever they want” should be coupled with responsibility.
–> so that such people will become more poor, more irresponsible, more addicted to sex, more sex, more percentage of getting pregnancy, and more problems.
–> We are to many that almost no one are using it. Population is not a problem when everyone gives his share responsibly; doing productive things than being engaged to sex.
–> Again, let your 9 year old child have sex with your neighbor. How immature and irresponsible you are if you do it. You are not teaching your child the right thing to do. [ But if you’re still unmarried today, better not getting married and have children because you are irresponsible and immature! ]
–> That is applicable on your time tester$$$. Are you old enough to be updated with the latest trend and technology today? Almost all young people have already seen pornographic movies so there is no reason they have not learned the “art of doing sex”. What matters is the right time to do it and not during when the person is turning 10!
QUOTE
So, unmarried couples can have sex? Children can have sex? You are thinking of your personal benefit. When you become a parent, you will understand that sex at 13 is not good.
UNQUOTE
And who told you without RH Bill unmarried couples and children will not be able to have sex? With or without RH Bill, they’re going to have sex. The absence of RH Bill doesn’t prohibit anyone from having so. Your line of reasoning is flawed. And don’t get me wrong, I didn’t like the idea of children having sex. The point is, don’t deprive couples the protection they need when they need it. It’s like you’re saying driving is dangerous for children so let us not allow all people to drive.
QUOTE
Not as essential as it is. RH bill when become a law is just a waste of money. Why spend millions to provide condoms to immature and unmarried teenagers, rather than spending those money to improve the educational system (for example) of the Philippines?
UNQUOTE
Lowering the population will lower our budget deficit. It will also increase the quality of education because there would be higher ratio of teachers over number of students. Salaries could be increased to motivate our teachers. It wouldn’t be possible if we are too many; our wealth is limited. Do the math please.
QUOTE
There is nothing on contraception that talks about curing. In fact, it is inflicting diseases/viruses on one’s reproductive organ, especially to females, and may result to cancer.
UNQUOTE
Latex aren’t cancerous. It even prevents the spread of virus.
QUOTE
Same goes, if you have sex knowing you are still immature and incapable of being a parent, it is almost impossible for you to take away sexual desires.
UNQUOTE
Again, RH bill doesn’t prevent anyone from having sex. In fact, it has been in the news last year that there had been a spread of STDs in the call centers. Now, I’m going to ask which is better, with or without contraceptives? Take note that it is given that they had sex.
QUOTE
Yes. But we can take away irresponsibility, immaturity, and promiscuity; and plug into our minds hardwork, responsiblity, love, and importance of human dignity (which differs us from dogs).
UNQUOTE
Being irresponsible means not using contraceptives during sex when you know you’re not prepared. Using a contraceptive during sex is also an expression of love and concern. If you truly love your wife or husband, you must use contraceptives during sex if you know you two are not prepared to have a second or third child. Remember, some couples are only capable of raising one child or two. And that limitation shouldn’t prevent them from expressing their love through safe sex.
QUOTE
Nothing is wrong here. We are talking here of UNMARRIED and IRRESPONSIBLE COUPLES.
UNQUOTE
Nowhere in RH bill that says contraceptives should be only be used by the unmarried and irresponsible. Actually that is even ironic. Responsible are those who use contraceptives when they know they are not prepared. Again, repression is not an option.
QUOTE
These unmarried couples are USUALLY incapable of raising their children well. Couples should be financially stable so their kids won’t suffer.
UNQUOTE
I’m going to repeat it. There are couples who can reponsibly raise one or two kids. When they have reached their ideal family size, that’s the time using a contraceptives would be a responsible choice. Take note of that point. In addition, contraceptives allow couples to defer having kids until they are financially stable. You might say, no, they shouldn’t get married if they’re not prepared. But the problem is, we cannot control that, that is given. So yes, contraceptives should still help them. Absence of contraceptives won’t prevent them from getting married anyways, don’t you agree?
QUOTE
Nothing is wrong here. “People can do whatever they want” should be coupled with responsibility.
UNQUOTE
YESS! I AGREE!! Not using contraceptives when you’re not prepared is being irresponsible.
QUOTE
–> so that such people will become more poor, more irresponsible, more addicted to sex, more sex, more percentage of getting pregnancy, and more problems.
UNQUOTE
You are very wrong. More sex leads lesser appetite to sex. Less sex means greater appetite to sex. The more you are deprived of sex the more you crave for sex.
Here’s the correct logic, not using contraceptives means more unwanted pregnancies.
QUOTE
We are to many that almost no one are using it. Population is not a problem when everyone gives his share responsibly; doing productive things than being engaged to sex.
UNQUOTE
Again and again, without having Rh bill doesn’t prevent anyone from engaging to sex.
And no, even if everyone gives his share of responsibility if the population is too big to be supported by the number of available jobs, it will not work; poverty will not be reduced. Balanced must be maintain. Balance is the key.
QUOTE
Again, let your 9 year old child have sex with your neighbor. How immature and irresponsible you are if you do it.
UNQUOTE
And who told you I was refering to children? Don’t put words to someone else’s mouth.
QUOTE
You are not teaching your child the right thing to do. [ But if you’re still unmarried today, better not getting married and have children because you are irresponsible and immature! ]
UNQUOTE
I bet you are.
QUOTE
–> That is applicable on your time tester$$$. Are you old enough to be updated with the latest trend and technology today?
UNQUOTE
Excuse me??
QUOTE
Almost all young people have already seen pornographic movies so there is no reason they have not learned the “art of doing sex”. What matters is the right time to do it and not during when the person is turning 10!
UNQUOTE
Do you know exactly what sex education is?
–> We’re talking of morality here–not beliefs.
–> All your statements are correct! I am glad you have already tweaked your brain over. I am glad that you have mentioned here that they want to get married at the LEGAL AGE. Now you have almost just agreed on me that SEX IS DONE WHEN THEY ARE MARRIED AT LEGAL AGE! That is the problem tester$$$. The effect of RH bill is not only applicable to married couples but to unmarried couples as well. The effect may be sequenced as follows: sex @ age 15 w/ condom -> success & likes to do sex other time -> sex again w/ condom -> success & likes to do sex other time -> do the process many times -> sex again w/ condom -> failed and the girl is pregnant.
–> Because I find the contradiction very obvious. Have I overscrutinized the Bill or you do not understand the bad effects of the bill after all?
–> It implies everything like that.
–> After that, they will be addicted to sex. Do sex more and more because condoms are now available at cheaper price. Once failed, “WTF” they should not do sex when unmarried!
–> See my previous comment above.
–> Then the government is responsible for those talented guys going abroad rather than working on the Philippines. RH Bill does nothing on this.
–> “Juan waits for the guava to drop off from the tree” is your point. Why wait for the economy to grow when you have a part of its improvement? Population may not be proportional to economy and is made possible by everyone’s responsibility to improve the economy of the Philippines. Improvements of economy cannot just be solved by mere contraception. Contraception as related to economy is meaningless.
–> Another point you have overseen. Population can be controlled without using contraceptives. See all my previous comments on how.
it is not the bill’s fault if some minor have sex… it might be due to peer pressure, environment, up bringing…etc…
a lot of people are having PMS… because of a lot of factors… the human psych is complicated… some of them are just plain curious…
some minors even look older than their age and can already buy condoms or whatever…dapat nga these kids should be educated about sexuality… hindi naman cguro mahina ang utak ng mga studyante para hindi makaintindi ng mga alituntunin…dapat tinuturuan sila sa mga consequences ng premarital sex… etc… at responsibilidad rin ito ng mga magulang at hindi ng gobyerno or ng paaralan lamang.
I agree. PMS are already there even though RH Bill has not yet appeared. How much more when RH Bill becomes a law?
RH Bill won’t matter. As I have repeatedly said, it doesn’t prevent anyone from having sex. With or without RH Bill, the people will have sex if they want it.
— so RH Bill is useless. See previous posts.
Nope, it minimizes the damages done by the people you call “sex addicts”.
The point that you keep on ignoring is that having sex is given. RH bill won’t make more people addicted to sex because it even reduces the pleasure from having sex by using a contraceptive.
What it does is to control the population and not enhance addiction as what your are trying to claim.
You are just thinking of the benefits of the RH Bill. You are not thinking of its bad effects. Your mind is only bounded to what you think is right, which is not radical enough.
*Your mind is only bounded to what you think is right about RH Bill, which is not radical enough.
It’s because you haven’t reasoned out why RH Bill is wrong. Your main point is sex addiction.
Why is sex addiction wrong? Is it because your church says so? See, it’s a belief system.
My argument is to reduce and bring back the balance in our population which is not based on a belief system but based on the law of supply and demand. Now, who is using a belief system between us?
“sex addiction” to be sparked by the RH Bill if passed as a law is a ridiculous idea. modern methods of contraception and traditional methods of contraception are available at the moment. i do not think anyone is complaining there are so many sex addicts today.
and so what if married couples become “sex addicts”? i don;t think married couples will ever complain that their spouse is a sex addict with them.
SABIHIN MO YAN DUN SA TAGA SQUATTER AREA NA KAKILALA KO. PAG HINDI SYA PUMAPAYAG NA BREED-IN NG ASAWA NIYA BINUBUGBOG SIYA.
I think this qoute should reflect on you….you are thinking the CONS of RH Bill not the PROS to the society.
In fact, most of the people I know would prefer not using contraceptives even it is given freely. It’s because it lessens the pleasure they get from sex for using it. You see, at this point, sex is given. The question is, is it better to use contraceptives during sex or not given that couple is not prepared and they planned on having sex?
–> Contraceptives causes cervical cancer and unnoticed mental illness.
Contraceptives leads addiction to young teens and causes the probability of getting pregnant high as the number of time of doing sex becomes too high even with condoms and such.
Nope, you don’t have a proof that use of contraception leads to sex addiction. As I said, a lot of people don’t want to even use it. We’re just encouraging them to use one instead of none. That’s the point that you keep on ignoring.
Contraception = less pleasure and more responsible.
No contraception = less responsible and less safer.
Keep that in mind.
Reposted:
You are just thinking of the benefits of the RH Bill. You are not thinking of its bad effects. Your mind is only bounded to what you think is right, which is not radical enough.
*Your mind is only bounded to what you think is right about RH Bill, which is not radical enough…
Would you allow your child / future child to learn everything about sex as early as 5th grader until 4th year h.s? If am the parent, it’s a big slap on my face to allow other people to teach such things to my child. Read between the lines.
It’s either the school will teach your child or a stranger whom you won’t even know. Now, what’s your choice? Sex education allows your child to be educated in sex, so he or she won’t do something stupid that you would regret later on.
–> RH Bill allows your 5-year old child to be addicted to sex.
you are being totally silly and foolish in opposing the rh bill. it is your kind that gives anti-rh groups a bad name, it’s not even comedic. you insult everyones intelligence.
Not insulting. But sad thing, it’s true.
Not insulting. But sad thing, it’s true. A child has no intelligence same as yours.
RH Bill? Ito ba yung pamumudmud ng condom sa mga schools and other establishments? If you are the parents of these children papayag ba kyo na matutuhan nila ang immorality? Dumadami ang papolasyon kasi dumadami na ang demonnyo sa kapaligiran, tulad ng makabagong tecknolohiya, internet at malalaswang babasahin na pinapayagan naman ng gobyerno. Ikaw ba yung tipo ng magulang na pababaunan ng comdom ang iyong anak just to be safe? ibig sabihin okay lang makipagtalik sya basta magco-comdom lang? o magpi pills? Ano na ba ang nangyayari sa mundo at kailangang mangyari pa ito. Bakit hindi na lang natin bigyan ng mataas na prioridad ang edukasyon, moralidad, disiplina at pagsisimba ang mga kabataan upang maitama ang kanilang landas. Nuong bata pa ako, basta mahawakan o maakbayan ka lang ng ksintahan mo, iisiping ng mga matatnda immoral ka na. Dahil nuon mataas ang pagpapahalaga sa moral ng mga Pilipino.. Masyado na kasi tayong malaya. Tama ang sinabi ni Manny Pacquiao na yung nga lalaki, magpigil pigil naman minsan. Ganun din ang mga kababaihan.
Sana ang mga lider ng ating bansa ay hindi lamang mag decide para sa kaunlaran ng technolohiya , dapat ay magdecide sila na naayon sa “Devine Law Of God”.
Uncle cracker, remember that not all people believe in your god or in a god. Refrain from using religion in politics.
RH BILL, enough ang resouces para sa dami ng population natin ngaun? KULANG….paki tanong nga sa mga catholiko…kaya nga sa Gen. 1:28, “And God blessed them; and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it…di ba may kasunod na word …subdue it….
Population is power! Economists predict that China and India, the two most heavily populated countries in the world, are poised to become top economic superpowers.
The Philippines is the 12th most populous country. We can become an economic superpower if we only manage our resources properly. We have more than enough resources. What makes our country poor is planned mismanagement because of greed and mismanagement by default because of selfishness.
china has a child policy for decades – the state punishes couples who have more than 1 child. the punishment is so severe that almost couples follow the 1child policy. that is one of the most severe population control programs in the world. so using china as an example of population is power is a very bad example. it is in fact the opposite – the china example shows population control results to economic progress.
Ngayong 2011 94 million ang ating populasyon. Mahirap ang Pinoy. Noong mid-80’s kalahati nito o 47 million ang ating bilang. Mahirap din ang Pinoy noon di ba? Overpopulation is the cause of poverty? You’ve gotta be kiding!
Ang dahilan ay ung ratio ng trabaho sa dami ng tao kaya mahirap parin ang pilipino. Sa makatuwid kelangang paunahin muna lumaki ang ekonomiya bago ang papulasyon. Simpleng batas lamang po ito ng supply and demand.
You did not get the point tester. Be open minded. No matter how population is controlled, we are still poor before and now.
Law of supply and demand has no relation with RH bill. As implied by benjamin, no matter how population is controlled, it is very difficult for us to increase the economy of the philippines.
@tester
The population in the Philippines cannot be treated as inversely proportional to our wealth as a country.
Would you say, Despite lacking natural resources, the densely populated island state of Singapore rose to the status of “first-world” thanks to the population control methods it implemented and utilized?
A BIG NO!
They say it’s thanks to the sheer hard work, adaptability and resilience of its population.
Having said this, spending our tax money to open more jobs and opportunities is a more viable option than spending tax money on depreciating assets like condoms and pills.
The RH Bill promotes information and education, but it should stop there. This bill just reiterates women’s rights that are already here and are presently respected.
One of the things I cannot agree on this bill is to use tax money for contraceptives.
First of all, this does not promote the governments neutral stand between traditional and modern methods.
Second, would this create job opportunities for the people? It’s easy revenue only for the contraceptive manufacturing industry. Do we have tons of LOCAL producers? NO!
Third, it’s not even stated that it’s not for the youth but for married couples.
Fourth, contraceptives are already available in the market but are VAT taxable. Why would the government want less income?
Fifth, lesser population means lesser taxpayers and lesser manpower who are by the way also including OFWs. One of our biggest income generators.
Conclusion, using tax money for this is a big liability with NO distinct foreseeable returns and NO reasonable justification.
It’s the way the government manages these manpower resources that is lacking.
It is not because we reproduce at a high rate. Remember, we don’t get to live forever either.
Please read the bill first and understand it fully before making a comment. Section 3(m) explicitly provides that nothing in this law changes the fact that abortion is still a crime punishable under the revised penal code. The RH Bill is HEALTH BILL. How could we not allow it to be passed? The Constitution tells us that there should be a separation of church and state, therefore the catholic church should really stay out of this. They can’t impose their beliefs on everyone. The church is a factor why we are so behind in terms of development as a country.
Masyadong hypocrite ang mga anti-RH bill, matutu kayong tumingin sa kapaligiran nyu at manood ng balita ng makita nyu ang tutuong picture ng kahirapan ng buhay.
Kawawa masyado ang mga mahihirap, sa mga squatter area andun nagtambakan ang mga maraming anak na lalaking alang tamang edukasyon at pagkain.Nasasabi nyu ang mga yan dahil siguro nde kayo nakakahalubilo ang mga taong ito. Pero kapag nakagawa ng krimen dahil sa kahirapan at alang makuhang tamang pangkabuhayan ay masyado nyung kino-condemn, alam nyu ba ang ugat ng lahat? kahirapan!!!! dahil kadalasan sa laki ng pamilya nde na sila nakuhang mapag aral at mapakain ng magulang nila. Wag kayung masyadong pa-SANTO na akala mo ay kayo lng ang maka-DIOS! sabi nga…nasa DIOS ang awa, nasa tao ang GAWA! kung nde natin tutulungan mag-isip ang ibang kababayan natin, patuloy lng silang magpaparami at magtatapon ng fetus sa kalsada. Batid kong nde ito ang magiging kasagutan sa kahirapan pero makaktulong ito upang mabawasan ng kunti at matutu ang iba kung paano magplano ng pamilya…at mas matutuwa ang DIOS kung mapag aaral at mabibigyan mo ng mas maayus na buhay ang mga magiging anak mo, kesa buhayin at pabayaang masadlak lng sa kahirapan ng buhay, na syang madalas nagtutulak upang makagawa ng krimen o nde maganda sa kapwa!
Hay naku mga kababayan kong Filipino, bakit kayo nagtatalo talo sa isyo ng RH Bill? Hayaan nyo yang RH Bill, mayroon man yan o wala sa ating bansa, hindi parin mapipigilan ang paglubo ng populasyon sa ating bansa, piro mababawasan ng konti dahil nga sa RH Bill na yan, siguradong dadami nga ang abortion, lalakas ang loob ng mga kababaehan at kalalakiahan na makipagtalik dahil may legal na paraan na upang hindi mabuntis si babae diba? tama rin ang sinasabi ng iba, halos lahat kayo actually may puntos sa inyong mga sinasabi, laban o pabor sa RH Bill. Kahirapan daw talaga ang dahilan ng paglubo ng populasyon sa ating bansa sabi ng iba. sa aking pang-unawa, hindi kahirapan ang dahilan, kundi kalibugan, kakulangan ng deciplina, at higit sa lahat ay kakulangan ng kaalaman sa Ebanghilyo ni Jesus Christ. mababaw ang kaalaman ng karamihan sa kalinisang puri. walang takot sa Panginoong Dios ang karamihan, hindi nasusunod ang mga Batas ng Dios. Ebanghilyo ni Jesu Kristo ang solusyon sa lahat ng problema sa bansa. The Gospel of Jesus Christ can solve all the crimes and over population in the country. Human being can never solve the over population, crimes and economic problems in the world without understanding God’s purpose and His Gospel. Let us all obey God’s laws and commandments, all above problems will surely be solved. Sa aming relihiyon, bawal ang pre-marital sex, bawal ang live-in, bawal ang immodest dress both women and men of all ages, bawal ang porngraphy of all forms, such as magazines, movies, music that induce unclean thougts, bawal ang mga bisyo tulad ng sugal, either legal na sugal o illegal, sigarilyo, alak, coffe, tea, at marami pang iba. ang lahat ng aking nabanggit ay itinuturo mula sa primary age hanggang sa matatanda linggo linggo sa aming simbahan. kaya wala kaming naririnig aming mga membro na nai envolve sa sanabing mga crimen at bisyo, at kung meron man, ay bihira lang at yong siguradong e excommunicate agad pagnapatunayan na gumagawa nga sya ng nasabing bisyo o krimen.
Naka sentro sa Gospel ni Jesus Christ ang lahat ng aming ginagawa sa araw araw naming pamumuhay. Dalangin ko na sana ang lahat ng mga Filipino ay magkaroon ng totoong takot at pagmamahal sa Dios at sa kapwa, at maging masunurin sa batas ng Dios at sa ating batas. dahil with God, everything is possible.
Kahit walang RH Bill, malibog parin ang tao. Ang totoo nyan, sa mga totoong malilibog, ayaw nila ng contraceptives dahil nakakabawas ng sarap sa pakikipagtalik. Di bale na daw mag silang ng anak kahit walang kinabukasan ang maibigay, importante makapag talik ng walang contraceptives para sagad sa ligaya.
Mas kasalanan ang magsilang ng sanggol kapag wala kang ibibigay na magandang kinabukasan dito. Mahalaga ang buhay. Kung kayong mga anti-RH bill ay totoong pro-life, hindi nyo dapat hahayaang gumawa ng anak yang mga malilibog na yan. Dapat yan nilalagyan ng goma para di makagawa ng anak. So ano kayong mga anti-RH? Mga echusero?
ang tanung dyan kabayan ay…sigurado ka ba ng sinusunod lahat yan ng inyung mga taga sunod???
Bakit ba lagi nating iniisip na pag naipasa ang bill na yan ay mapupuno na tayo ng kaimoralidad? Nilalayon lng ng bill na yan na mabigyan ng choices ang isang family na iplano ang kanilang pamilya at availability ng mga paraan. Ang kalibugan na sinasabimo ay dala dala na natin mula pa ng isilang tayo, kaya nga tayo dumami eh.
And sex education ay itinuturo na mula pa nung tayo ay nagsisipag aral pa, kaya nga alam natin kung kelan dinadatnan, at parte ng isang tao eh, binago lng ang pangalan ayaw nyu na….tska bakit kc nde basahin ng buo at unawain ang nilalaman nde yung inuunawa lng ang isang word. kabuuan at nde salita ang unawain
I think I have to clarify something here. Yes, the Reproductive Health Bill does make mention of the word “ABORTION”, but please do note that “ABORTION” per se does not mean PURPOSEFUL termination of pregnancy. Abortion actually means the termination of pregnancy before the fetus reaches the stage of viability wherein. There are actually several types of abortion such as:
1. SPONTANEOUS ABORTION which occurs as a result of abnormalities of the zygote (e.g. blighted ovum) or problems in the maternal environment-the mother’s body (e.g. uterine infection, obesity, uncontrolled diabetes), such that the requirements of the growing fetus cannot be met, ultimately leading to a naturally-occurring termination of the pregnancy
2. THERAPEUTIC ABORTION which is deemed necessary by a physician when the pregnancy threatens a woman’s life (e.g. ectopic pregnancy, choriocarcinoma, eclampsia) and though the intention is not to kill the fetus, it has not yet reached the point when it can survive outside the uterus; or the mother harbors a serious illness wherein continuing the pregnancy would be a danger to the mother’s health (e.g. breast cancer, severe cardiac disease)
3. ELECTIVE ABORTION which is done at the personal request of the mother for reasons outside of maternal and fetal health or welfare *And I think this is the type of abortion you are so against.*
When the RHB states something about “Prevention of abortion and management of post-abortion complications”, please be guided that the proponents of the bill are not referring to those who had elective abortion only!
How about the countless other women who have had spontaneous or therapeutic abortions? Do we deny them the medical care they need just because of the stigma associated with abortion?
Also, if you really read it, the bill did mention about prevention of abortion.
Now if your statement that the RHB “gives every woman specially the teenager to have the rights and free access to abort the baby inside the womb of the mother” is a reference to contraceptive use, allow me to tell you something that you have probably been unaware of. Contraceptives have been widely available in our country for years already. Yes my dear. Any teenager could just walk up to a counter and buy pills or condoms or any of the like. Where were you when they aired those Frenzy commercial ads on TV? I believe we have stricter laws for minors buying cigarettes and alcohol. Buying contraceptives was never illegal, it was just a bit expensive and only people with a few pesos to spare could buy these. So saying that the RHB “gives people the right” to avail of these is an unpardonable joke. It is tantamount to saying that opening a new sari-sari store is giving your neighborhood kids the right to buy candy and junk food.
I am a female, and I firmly stand by my rights, one of which is the right to reproductive health. It is unfair that other Filipinas are deprived of their own rights to health education, goods and services because of financial circumstances. I respect your right to freedom of religion, but we all have our rights and every one of these rights warrants respect.
rh bill is good,,but if da peoples money or our taxes is use to purchase this contraceptives just to control population it might not good because at this time there are lots of priorities that need to be implemnted aside from population,,for me there is no problem in poplation,,but the problem peolple lack of education about proper birth spacing,,we can say that we are over populated because there are lots of filipinos don have work that y we can say that there are lots of people her in pinas because they are not in work.
You have a good point but consider it as an investment. If that is implemented, our population will be reduced and that means less spending by the government.
read the revised RH Bill here : https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/2011/03/26/consolidated-reproductive-health-bill-full-text-house-bill-4244/
the above is the consolidated version of the RH bill which is the version that is up for approval at congress.
the RH BIll is not meant to change values. values is the province of the church. if there is a failure of values. it is the failure of the church and parents.
i don’t approve of RH bill because i believe the real reason of poverty is not overpopulation but apathy…yes, APATHY or being indifferent…had people in power or those who are well off show genuine compassion and concern to the poor and to those less fortunate, this country or even this world could have been a better place…if only more people put an effort to liberate poor people from this dehumanizing situation, little by little poverty could be eradicated…i hope and pray that people would shift their focus from debating (wala naman pinatutunguhan) to actually solving the real cause of the problem….just so you know, apathy is the greatest social sin…
Please be aware of how supply and demand prevails. Over supply of man power means lower salary which leads to vicious cycle to poverty. Therefore overpopulation is a real problem. Overpopulation means there is an imbalance of ratio between human and resources such as jobs. Just look at our nurses today. Now tell me, how is population not a problem? Don’t you believe in a the law supply and demand?
I think the main issue on abortion revolves around the IUD which involves nga naman the abortion of the formed fetus kasi it promotes sloughing off of the endometrium. Pero it’s a choice naman kung yun ang pipiliin mo or not.. Ayon sa religion natin, siyempre dapat di natin piliiin yun. Ganun lang….
Without contraception, children are born by irresponsible parents who cannot feed them. Now is the time to prevent those children from being born by irresponsible parents.
I support the RH Bill to protect our children from being born by people who doesn’t deserve to be a parent. To protect the children from parents who would not provide them the basic social infrastructure needed to have a decent, fulfilling life that would make one a productive citizen of this already poor overpopulated country.
I support the RH Bill to balance the number of employees vs employers/investors so that everyone who loves their job and passionate about their careers can enjoy the fruits of their labor and experience abundance.
Let’s make this country progressive by supporting the RH Bill.
You are saying the same thing all over again. I have a question for you tester, give me all the disadvantages of the RH Bill. If it is difficult for you to give one, you are too close minded. Again, you may just be only thinking of the good effects of the bill, not minding the bad effects, which is not radical enough. Now, give me all the disadvantages of the bill you have in your mind.
Don’t have enough time at the moment, will be back to answer other arguments.
First, to say that condom use has anything to do with abortion is ignorant. Walang impormadong tao ang magsasabi na nakaka-abort ang condom. Condom use is a barrier method of contraception, so it really has nothing to do with abortion.
Ngayon, tungkol sa mag-asawang maraming anak at gustong mag-sex, walang pumipigil sa kanila na gawin yun; it is part of their marriage. But also part of marriage — whether religious or secular — is responsibility. Now, what is responsibility? Para mas madali, let’s use the Tagalog term: “pananagutan”.
Kung ikaw ay isang responsableng tao at asawa, alam mo na kailangan mong sagutin at harapin ang mga natural na konsekwensya o resulta ng lahat ng iyong piniling gawin. Take note, pinili mo, walang pumilit sa’yo. Ang tanong, may pumilit ba sa iyong mag-asawa? Dapat wala. May pumilit ba sa iyong makipag-sex? Dapat wala. Now, this is the thing: we should remind ourselves that we cannot play with all things. We cannot just manipulate everything to make it more convenient for ourselves. What’s my point? Ang lahat ng bagay ay may kanya-kanyang dahilan at gamit. Hindi ka iinom ng paracetamol dahil sinisipon ka, o ng ibuprofen dahil masakit ang tiyan mo. We should be responsible enough to actively learn and recognize the purpose of a thing before we take advantage of it. Ang pakikipag-sex ay masarap pero hindi ito ginawa para sa kasarapan. Kumbaga sa gamot, pleasure is its side effect. It’s main purpose — as our anatomy exhibits — is procreation, or as we use for other species: propagation. Hindi ang conception ang side effect — this is the main and intended effect. And as I have said, we should recognize that.
The universe has its own laws. Meron din tayong tinatawag na natural law, na ang ibig sabihin lang ay dapat nating gamitin ang lahat ng bagay ayon sa itinakda ng kalikasan. Ang pag-manipulate sa mga ito para lang sa makasariling dahilan ay isang malaking paglapastangan sa kalikasan, which in turn means disrespecting ourselves. I assume na babae ang kausap ko. Pag nag-asawa ka, you would not want your man to merely “do sex” with you instead of “make love” with you. Kung nakikipagtalik lang siya sa iyo dahil kailangan ng katawan niya ang masarapan, matatawag mo ba itong pagmamahal o panggagamit? Kung ganito ang mindset ng asawa mo, kakailanganin niya ng ibang babae para sa katawan niya tuwing wala ka, dahil tinutugunan niya lang ang kanyang pangangailangang panlaman tuwing nagtatalik kayo — bagay na pwede niya rin makuha sa ibang babae.
Pero kung ang asawa mo ay may respeto sa layunin ng pag-aasawa at pakikipag-sex, mare-recognize niya na [1] siya ay para lang sa’yo, [2] ang dahilan ng pakikipagtalik niya sa’yo ay dapat na nagmumula sa pagmamahal at hindi sa makasariling paghahanap ng sarap, at [3] ang pangunahing layunin ng sex ay procreation. Dahil sa pagrespeto niyang ito sa kalikasan, maipapakita rin niya sa’yo ang nararapat na pagrespeto sa asawa at sa babae.
Ibig bang sabihin ay hahayaan mo lang na dumami nang dumami ang anak ninyo? Hindi. Ibig lang sabihin ay dapat kang umayon sa batas ng kalikasan. Ang ating katawan ay may mga batas din na sinusundan, and again, we should recognize and respect those laws. Ang menstruation at pagbubuntis ng babae ay nagpapakita ng pagsunod na ito. We, too, are not above the law. Kung gusto o ayaw munang magkaanak ng mag-asawa, dapat silang sumunod sa paraang itinakda ng kalikasan. Hindi sila pinagbabawalan ng kalikasan na mag-practice ng “birth spacing” kaya nagtakda ito ng paraan. Kahit ano pang ikatwiran ng sinuman, the maxim will always be the same: no one is above the law — that is, the natural law.
Now, regarding the RH Bill. To begin with, Reproductive Health Bill is not about reproduction but against reproduction; it’s not about health because it promotes artificial practices which may lead to health problems; and it is not about responsibility because what it attempts to inculcate is that people should enjoy life without bothering themselves of the natural consequences of their actions. It is this same irresponsible (contraceptive) mentality that makes a student say, “Okay lang mangopya basta wag mahuhuli.” It is not how studying is supposed to be, but for convenience sake, cheating becomes an almost acceptable behavior. Sex is not supposed to be just for pleasure (makaraos lang!) but that notion becomes more acceptable because of the mentality that says, “Sex lang ng sex, basta wag makakabuntis o magpapabuntis. You don’t think that is being responsible, do you?
QUOTE
Sex is not supposed to be just for pleasure (makaraos lang!) but that notion becomes more acceptable because of the mentality that says, “Sex lang ng sex, basta wag makakabuntis o magpapabuntis. You don’t think that is being responsible, do you?
UNQUOTE
Samakatwid, you don’t like married couples to have sex without intention of having a baby? Is that it? Don’t you think you’re rather being selfish depriving people of their rights because it is against your morality according to your religion? Again, keep your belief system to your self.
Eto na nga ba sinasabi ko eh. You are actually against sex for pleasure.
You know what? There’s nothing wrong about sex even without intention of having a baby. Grow up. Maybe you’re just insecure about others getting a healthy sex life.
Hindi pepedeng sa bawat sex ng mag asawa ay dapat may intention na magka anak. Are you insane? Are you not just imposing your belief system again on others? I think you do.
–> Another proof of tester being too illusive of what he is thinking is right. Sex is already given. Catholics/or any other religion have their own beliefs which they have think and proven is right. Do not say those religious people are wrong. You are too being close minded. Human have their intelligence not the same as you are.
–> Sex is ok without having a baby. Only the “when” about it is wrong, which is commonly abused today and much more when the RH Bill becomes a law.
–> You are more insane than him tester.
You’re just imposing your belief system to others.
I can’t believe you want to deprive even the married couples to have sex. So pag baog ang mag asawa, walang karapatan mag sex?? LOL Grow up.
You are arguing which others are thinking is ok. Married couples are even required to have sex to improve their intimacy. What are you arguing? Be mature enough tester.
Masyado nyu kasing wino-word for word ang bawat salita sa RH bill…then papasok nyu pa ang religion…ang gusto lng ng bill na yan ay maeducate ang mga tao specially younger people kung paano magplano ng pamilya. At magkaroon ng kaalaman sa tamang pagpipigil sa panganganak, nde naman sinabi na pag naaprubahan ang bill na ito ay pilit ng isusubo ang mga contraceptives na iyan…nasa magpartner or mag asawa pa rin ang huling desisyon…the thing is binigyan lng sila ng mga choices at hindi lng puro sex ang nilalaman nyan, layon din nyan na mas mapalawak pa ang kaalaman ng mga tao sa reproductive health at the same time reproductive organs and others.. in short edukasyon lng na alam naman natin eh noon pa man naituturo na rin sa school nilagyan lng nila ng sariling pangalan.
And at the same time, kahit paano sa maliit na porsyento ay makaktulong ito para mabawasan ng kahit kaunti ang birth growth ng pilipinas. Alam naman natin pare-pareho na hindi ito magiging 100% effective, patuloy pa rin tayong makakikita sa kalsada ng mga kabataang namamalimos, nagnanakaw o nagdo-droga. But one way or another meron pa ring susunod at magpaplano para na rin sa kinabukasan ng kanilang magiging pamilya at mga anak, and at the same time makaktulong din ito sa gobyerno para mabawasan ang mga taong lagi na lng nakaasa sa gobyerno at sumisisi.
Bakit lagi tayong nag-iisip kung ano ang maibibigay sa atin ng gobyerno bakit minsan nde natin isipin kung ano ang maicocontribute natin para matulungan ang gobyernong ito na higit na makapagsilbi sa nakakarami. Andun na ako na may mga bulok sa mga nakaluklok, pero nde lahat ng laman ng tiklis ay bulok meron pa ring matitino….dont just look for a mark in an empty sheet of paper.
Go a little far away…and look the complete picture. BE REALISTIC!!! TUMINGIN KAYO SA PALIGID…at kung nasa maayus kang lugar at tirahan…try nyu pumunta sa squatter area at tumira ng kahit 1 linggo, ng malaman nyu kung ano ang tutuo!
I wonder what’s in the mind of Atheists ($$$$$_thinker, kilo55, tester$$$$$,etc). Many today who don‘t truly believe in God, work under the assumption that all will be right for them after they die. Or its the end of their life already.
Doesn’t it come to you this thoughts: What if I die and there’s really a soul that arises from my dead body and there’s really a God, am I ready to face Him? Am I ready to be punished due to my arrogance and pride of not believing in Him and obeying Him? You’re not a believer, but haven’t you consider these things??? WHAT IF?? WHAT IF we are wrong, there’s nothing to be lost on our side if let say you are correct. But WHAT IF we are correct, you are all lost for eternity. Which is a wiser and safer decision?
Now if you really do not believe in the Bible, please research, read and even look for videos about near-death experiences of different peoples. Even here in the Phils, as feature in Mel and Joey, there are these experiences by some people here. My office mate’s friend has experienced this thing as well. All will tell that they leave their body. The witnesses will tell that they died already evidenced by loss of heart or even accompanied by a doctor. Others tell that there’s a great fire behind them and others will tell that they are in very dark place, others will tell that they see a man (but not clearly) and others just hear a voice calling them. This will tell you that there is life after death –> an eternal life which awaits each of us.
Think beyond your future. Don’t you want a life which is perfect where all are in order, all are happy, no one is sick, poor, suffering, a place even beautiful than earth, a place of peace, a place where all love and understand each other? Don’t you want that?
Whatever your pain is or experience that caused you not to believed. No matter how you offend God right now. GOD STILL LOVES YOU!!! All He needs is for you to recognize Him. If you would really seek Him, you will find Him. Seek Him in the silence of your heart. All in the Heaven will be more happy to assists you. They want you back. All they need initially is your willingness, then they will be the one to work for your soul. Your Guardian Angel reads as well while you read this. He waits for you to consider GOD in your life. Humility and Obedience is a virtue.
There is an internal peace if you consider and live with GOD in your life. A peace that the world can’t take away from you no matter how insecure, disturb, and trouble this world is. An internal peace that is within yourself no matter what happens in your life and your surroundings.
GOD BLESS US ALL!! Mama Mary has revealed that She has a special plan with this country.
you mind is too narrow! i wonder how you interact with your family and friends….
pinagtatawanan ka siguro ng patalikod ng mga kaibigan mo dahil sa mga pangangatwiran mo….yang klase ng mga pangangatwiran ang madalas gumagawa ng mga kalokohan sa buhay….self centered and naive!…What a pathetic person you are….hahahaha!!!!!!!!
Again, it is your paradigm at work. You are looking through a stained glass when it comes to arguments from the other fence, and everything you see there is stained. You may try your best but what you will always see is just the same.
To welcome life does not necessarily mean to intend conception — that’s the point that pro-RH cannot get however hard they try. I am not sure whether you have something against the argument that doing sex without love (but for selfish pleasure-seeking) is not a responsible action. It is not the same, though, with rejecting sex acts without the intention of conception. Everybody has the right to make love whenever they choose to but to do sex for mere pleasure is a violation of the partner’s right to be loved and respected, and not to be treated as a “tool”.
You really can’t move on from this religion thing. As far as I remember, I haven’t mention God nor religion in my explanation. And again, morality is not necessarily religious in nature; it just happened that almost all religion have their own set of moral standards. You better move on from here. A man of science cannot just dismiss the nature and obvious purpose of things, especially the human body.
You should rather try to see that what I am against is the “objectification” of women. Pleasure is a part of sex but women are not pleasure tools.
And there’s nothing to argue against regarding that, as well. Pro-RH are the ones who want to make a straw out of their opponents. My question, though, is how did you come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with it? Is truth objective?
QUOTE
To welcome life does not necessarily mean to intend conception — that’s the point that pro-RH cannot get however hard they try. I am not sure whether you have something against the argument that doing sex without love (but for selfish pleasure-seeking) is not a responsible action.
It is not the same, though, with rejecting sex acts without the intention of conception. Everybody has the right to make love whenever they choose to but to do sex for mere pleasure is a violation of the partner’s right to be loved and respected, and not to be treated as a “tool”.
UNQUOTE
Having sex while avoiding conception doesn’t mean sex without love and respect. Having sex for pleasure doesn’t mean it is an act without love and respect. It doesn’t follow. Non sequitur.
QUOTE
As far as I remember, I haven’t mention God nor religion in my explanation.
UNQUOTE
Stating a claim without a reason or basis must come from a belief system or religion. You simply not mentioned “because the church says so” but in actuality it is just the same thing.
QUOTE
And again, morality is not necessarily religious in nature; it just happened that almost all religion have their own set of moral standards. You better move on from here. A man of science cannot just dismiss the nature and obvious purpose of things, especially the human body.
UNQUOTE
Like what? That having sex while avoiding conception is wrong is not based on a religion? Who are you trying to kid? If your moral standard is based on a religious teaching and not for the common good then it is clearly a religious in nature and considered as a belief system.
QUOTE
You should rather try to see that what I am against is the “objectification” of women. Pleasure is a part of sex but women are not pleasure tools.
UNQUTOE
No one told you women are pleasure tools. When both man and a woman wants to have sex they don’t consider one another as pleasure tools. Maybe you’re refering to prostitutes.
QUOTE
My question, though, is how did you come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with it? Is truth objective?
UNQUTOE
It’s because you haven’t proven that there is something wrong with it. Again, negative is the default position here. We follow the rule of innocent-until-proven-guilty and we’re not supposed to prove it through the Bible.
It seems that you are implying that you don’t have a belief system, which you are trying to convince everybody here with. The truth is, you have one. You believe in something; you believe in what you hold true, that is why you are making a stand. However, it is not accurate for me to accuse you of imposing your belief/opinion/conclusion on others just because you are making a stand according to your belief. You are a typical pro-RH — using one of the favorite mottoes: “Don’t impose your religion/belief system on others.” That motto is actually lame, although popular.
You are the one who is claiming sex without intention of having a baby, even for married couple, is wrong. I say you’re just basing it on your belief system which is lame. I claim no positive. Positive claims require proofs. Negative claims remains the default stand. If you say there’s something wrong then prove it. If you’re going to use your belief system to argue then sorry not everyone agrees with your belief system.
–> Proofs? Oh well, that means you did not do some research. Ok let’s deal with the “WHY RH BILL IS WRONG” rather than what makes it correct.
A simple google search will lead you to the ARGUMENT of the Church regarding contraceptives. (No religion practices here. But merely, analysis.)
http://www.google.com.ph/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=what+makes+contraceptives+wrong&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=6e663305b08bd296
Tester, you should do more research rather than imposing your “belief system” on others.
Post the best argument you can get and lets discuss it here. Though I doubt you’ll gonna get that isn’t based on religion or belief. The law of supply and demand is really simple and basic subject.
It has already been posted. See here for my argument on the “updated” version of the bill here: https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/2011/03/26/consolidated-reproductive-health-bill-full-text-house-bill-4244/
Before anything else tester$$$, please answer this question:
Give me all the bad effects of the bill you have in mind.
Are you sure you’re talking to me? Did you see that claim, anyone?
You said it indirectly.
QUOTE
Ang pakikipag-sex ay masarap pero hindi ito ginawa para sa kasarapan. Kumbaga sa gamot, pleasure is its side effect. It’s main purpose — as our anatomy exhibits — is procreation, or as we use for other species: propagation. Hindi ang conception ang side effect — this is the main and intended effect. And as I have said, we should recognize that.
UNQUOTE
Ok let’s make it clear this time. Is it wrong to have sex without the intention of having a baby?
I will quote myself: “To welcome life does not necessarily mean to intend conception.” Sex without the intention of having a baby is not wrong. Again: “What I am against is the ‘objectification’ of women.”
Marital rape happens both physically and mentally. The latter refers to the unvoiced protest of women who is having sex without love or at least authentic consent.
This issue is neither economic nor poverty-related; it is human dignity. You don’t have to have a religion to recognize a person’s innate dignity — not the dignity because she has a presentable house or a high-paying job but simply because she is human. Contraceptive mentality disregards this truth.
QUOTE
Marital rape happens both physically and mentally. The latter refers to the unvoiced protest of women who is having sex without love or at least authentic consent.
UNQUOTE
I think you’re drifting too far. Sex without conception can be willed by both men and women. The issue is not about marital rape or having sex against the will of the partner. In our current context we are under the assumption that both partner are willing and lovingly want to have sex without intending to have a baby. You’re just trying to make the story different so your argument could fit.
–>
Not at all times tester that it is “willed”. How about the case of rape, or worse, incest?
–>
Imposing a law on something without consideration of all the good and bad effects of it is meaningless. It will just lead to disaster when the unforeseen bad effects have happened.
Similarly, an assumption that ALL COUPLES in the Philippines do sex with their WILL is meaningless and is considered as an atrocious argument.
–> You are making an argument with only one side of it–your side and nothing else; the good side, and not the bad side.
Again, there’s nothing to argue about that if you are assuming that all people are having sex with love and respect. In reality, though, that is not always the case. Respect depends on how you see the other (your partner), and so it is not easy to tell whether someone really respects the other. A guy who left her girl just because he got her pregnant; I don’t think you would consider that being respectful. The point is you cannot just assume. We are not talking about theories but real lives. To put that vague argument that you stated to the mind of all people will surely translate to many different negative meanings and behaviors.
Which claim did I not support with reason or basis? If it is my failing, the I will compensate. But if it is about the morality of sex without the intention of conception, I think we’re done with that.
QUOTE
Again, there’s nothing to argue about that if you are assuming that all people are having sex with love and respect.
..
..
UNQUOTE
It is you who made the first assumption that sex is not about love and respect and that it makes women pleasure tool. I am just saying it is not the issue here.
You’re like saying “oh! let’s not allow people to drive because a lot of people do it for fun and it will only cause accidents”. That’s how your argument looks like, don’t you realize it? You are trying to make a bad generalization so your argument could fit.
I was simply saying not to talk about that issue, the issue here is the benefits of RH Bill and not how could some people use it on some other things that could affect your “standard of morality”. Really, you should not care about that because it’s none of your business.
QUOTE
Now, about this “common good” thing, how do you determine if it is for common good? Whatever violates the rights of someone is not a “common good”.
UNQUOTE
Common good is something that could benefit everyone with disregard to any belief system. Does it do you wrong if other people chose to use condoms? No. Is it made to balance the population? Yes. Is it meant to provide people the means to control their family size effectively? Yes. That’s a common good. It is not forcing you to use a condom. You may stick to do what you belief is the right thing to do. I think we’re done with that argument.
QUOTE
No one told me but many show it. The example of the impregnated girl who was left by his guy is still applicable. Kasama sa sarap pero hindi sa pananagutan. He had sex for pleasure but showed no commitment. You’re right, this guy prostituted the girl because he sees him not as a person who needs his commitment and sense of responsibility but as an object of pleasure. Wearing a condom or not impregnating the girl do not change how he sees her. Again, you cannot just assume that we’re just talking about people who love and respect each other because we are talking about all Filipinos.
UNQUOTE
Ditto
QUOTE
I think you did not get the question correctly. But that’s just trivial.
UNQUOTE
I think my statements are clear and it made a sound argument against yours.
–>
Tester, again and again I will tell you. Sex is important in marriage. Sex is about love and respect in married couples even without making a baby. Do you understand? You are arguing what we did not actually argue against you.
Now, what makes a women a pleasure tool with sex? It is when the couple is not yet married and on the instance like rape, promiscuity, and worse incest.
You are saying that it is not the issue here so stop arguing about that. Eat your own words.
–>
You are thinking on a wrong track tester. You become a misnomer of what the people here are talking about. That is not what they are arguing. They say that sex is only for married couples, not for unmarried couples as it would cause accidents. Accidents on married couples is ok because it is their right to make a baby. But with unmarried couples go into accident, it is not ok. Do you think it’s ok for a 15 yr old couple becoming a parent? Testing, twist your mind please.
Now, in relation to contraceptives. People have no assurance that it would succeed. For my better explanation on this topic, see this instead: https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/2011/03/26/consolidated-reproductive-health-bill-full-text-house-bill-4244/
–>
Again tester, you’re mind is too BOUNDED by the benefits of the RH Bill. I tell you, RH Bill has benefits. But don’t you think it has some disadvantages too? Now, I ask you to enumerate to the people here all the bad effects of the RH Bill you have in mind. (This is the 3rd time I am asking you this now.)
–>
For the 4th time tester, I ask you to enumerate all the disadvantages of the RH Bill.
Take note that you are not the only person in this world. We have our own intelligence. And some people are more logical than you are. Do not say, “Your belief system is wrong”, because your belief system to many people is also wrong for them. Your mind is created to be logical. Not to be bounded by just one side of it. Don’t forget to answer what I ask of you.
–>
Your statements are very clear tester. In fact, you have repeated all of them in this thread for almost 20 times. You are just too bounded by one side of the RH Bill. Don’t forget what I ask of you. Thank you.
I’ll post soon on the link you provided.
mike sison,
Lets be serious this time and ask. Why dose the church hate responsible parenting? Brand it as abortionist, work of the devil, and we’re all burn to hell’…Don’t they have a heart to poor, over populated malnourished, uneducated, jobless, pok-pok, drug addict, sick seniors, you name it we have it here in the only Christian country in all Asia! Looking at the other side of the coin, its Commerce stupid! How much gold has been ship to Vatican City (smallest city with the largest Gold reserved with no deficit) since Magellan time when we where converted to Catholicism. If we employ an actuarial audit when the population to the Philippines then was say X and the fees from birth to the grave, mass contribution, donation etc., up the present 90+ million Filipinos have been shipped to Vatican??? Dose the Church educate His flock? Ateneo, De La Salle, St. Scholastica etc. What do they do with the high tuition fee that they collect, Tax Free!? What will the Vatican do with all those mullah? They say ‘sell all your riches and give it to the poor’. The POOR needs good free schools, food, shelter, hospitals and everything that money can be used to eradicate the word POOR in the dictionary. If only the Church will practice what the Bible (Holy) say, then there wont be any poor within our mid. Now we have a lot of POOR hearts that lead the flocks. Will Jesus Christ walk among our Church champions who sports expensive cars, shoes,
gold/stoned rings, palatial dwellings,etc? Did Jesus Christ had an accountant when he was spreading the Words of God? Now, its big Commerce brothers and sisters. The Vatican treasurer was hanged at a bridge sometime ago for a miss deal in ‘laundering’ Mafias mullah. The Church is vomiting tons of gold to settle cases of ‘sex offenses’ done many moons ago. Father Damaso rape, molested our men and women during the colonial times. Today we have surnames as, Reyes, Domingo, De Jesus, Cruz, Santos Susmariajoseph! Why? Kasi wala silang tatay na maiharap! Kaya binigyan nalang sila na apelyido ng pareng nag binyag sa kanila, I wonder how much was the fee for baptismal during that time. Baka libre kc anak ni bro. Puro mestisaz at mestisoz at matatangos ang ilong. Co~no blood! Lol! No serious? If only the Vatican will sell all there Gold and give free education, health care, shelter, etc? Then the flocks will be more than willing to give more to the Church! Not because they are so poor that if they give to every mass Jesus will take pity and let them win the lotto or the big crooks donate schools to De La Salle so that their sins will be forgiven and they can go running to the bank with their loot that they renegade from their ‘Educational Plan’ scam. Brothers and loving sisters in Christ, have we look at the other side of the coin? Or is it blind faith that we are all fighting for responsible parenting. Have we done something to help the poor in our mid? Is the Church afraid that business will diminish if the population curve goes downhill just what happen to church attendance in all Europe. Save for our poor OFW who now attend mass at their almost vacant churches before the spread of poor “below poverty line” comes a flocking in their mid.
I am for natural family planning, a planned choice based on personal sexual discipline to prevent unplanned conception. Education of couples on this aspect is very important, and this should be a function of both the state and the church. Seminars in school and barangays should be given free continuosly.
Family planning is not the only solution to overpopulation and poverty. Education, especially state sponsored education should be upgraded and given full support to increase the population literacy. A literate population can make intelligent choices and decisions. Likewise, improvement of businesses and industries in all sectors should be the priority of government to increase employment. A nation whose population is educated and busy will have couples who will have lesser time to bear more children.High literary and progressive economy will have couples who are busy in their jobs and can make intelligent decisions towards responsible parenthood. Thus, high population will correct by itself naturally. The couples will then be busy on providing economic security and quality life for their children. Although this is a long shot solution, but this is more Godly and acceptable to most Filipinos.
The danger in artificial family planning is the possibily of being abused. That, instead of just preventing contraception by using artificial contraceptives, it may lead to abortions.
VERY MUCH AGREE!!!
the catholic church should stop meddling with affairs of the state.
funny how we’re already debating whether contraception is synonymous to abortion or not, when it’s not even the point of the bill. it’s not like the government is going to force everyone into using contraceptives once the bill is passed. it’s just accessibility and information. the power to choose is still on the people. denying them the knowledge and facility is like tying them up in order to prevent them from moving and therefore making mistakes. the catholic church is being a dictator. they are trying to hold the people down. Not only are they imposing their will on the state, they are also trying to decide for the people, including those with different beliefs from them. the country’s population might be composed mostly of catholics, but we also have other religious groups, and the catholic church is tramping their sentiments. if the church really thinks the use of contraceptives is immoral, they can, by all means convince their parishioners not to use them. but they do not have the right to decide for everyone. talking of respect, it seems like the church does not acknowledge it’s people’s right to make personal choices, when god himself gave us the freedom to choose.
See here: https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/2011/03/26/consolidated-reproductive-health-bill-full-text-house-bill-4244/ for further analysis on the RH Bill. Let us exchange ideas there.
hi vanillae,
I don’t know if you have read this alreay, but you should…
http://catholicposition.blogspot.com/2011/04/my-comments-on-william-mays-response-to.html
and this one…
http://catholicposition.blogspot.com/2011/02/pope-on-condoms-not-on-epistemic-order.html
Yes, there are some parts of this bill that are helpful, but some negative parts are the ones heavy, that is why I’m very against on this… and there are hidden agenda on this bill, we are just blinded by the beautiful words referring to the “POOR”. I disagree also, because i don’t want our country follow the US way, that time comes, we don’t have control anymore to our own children for being liberated… and parents who reprimand them will go to jail… is that what we want to happen?… In fact the root of this over population problem is the lack of discipline, lack of self control if we only have this attitude, there’s no use of using such contraceptives and imposing this law.. if we have just noticed, people having so many children are those unemployed. So, Pinoy must provide small enterprises and government owned business factories who can cater unemployed ones… PINOY, PLEASE TEACH AND GIVE SEMINARS ON SELF DISCIPLINE AND SELF CONTROL because this is much important.. If we go on the RH bill but don’t have these attitudes also, no use.. it will be getting worst and worst, because people will no longer consider sex as sacred love making but LUST.
BILL or NO BILL? like what is the difference?
^^ heheh
But as a tax payer, and trying to express my being a responsible citizen. i believe the RH bill needs to be further evaluated. I am not totally against it. But not totally for it. I think we should go for the pro-life aspects of the bill. I like the comment of : #down2one when he said.. “well then there you go, let’s filter out all methods/medicines and allow only those that act before conception, let’s make all ‘contraceptives that in some cases act as abortifacients’ illegal”. ^^ everything about the bill I agree besides those that seem a bit hazy and needs further clarification.
i am a catholic. But to begin with, before i knew that the catholic church is against the modern family planning as they say it. I would disagree for contraception be legal in the Philippines, that was, when i was 12. still the same thing is on my mind, i am now 16.
i think it would be cooler for a boy, resist temptation at this age and go having sex.
If my brother is above 18 or 20, i could just ask him whenever i want him to by condoms for me. but I won’t do that.
It is man’s duty to resist temptations, It is our duty to resist temptations like these until we get married. And still, it is our duty to resist temptation after marriage, if we know by ourselves that we are not capable of supporting our siblings.
The RH bill will only hasten the decrease of morality among us Filipinos. Please, let us not contribute to the destruction of our Honor, our Unique culture.
Do not think of your religion, everyone here is God’s creation. we should stand us one. If one Bill could bring us down? Any other stronger test would bring us down.
God is just testing us, if we are his REAL creations, and we could resist demonization.
how can the the RH Bill “hasten the decrease of morality” when modern methods of contraception are at present available in the country and are already being used by catholics?
dude,
what are you saying?
see Declaration of policy..”The State upholds and promotes responsible parenthood, informed choice, birth spacing and respect for life in conformity with internationally recognized human rights standards.”..abortion is one of the international recognized human rights violation so the bill does not promote abortion, if ur confused with OCD/IUD as contraception or abortifacients (which are not)..why not use condom instead?..
i support the bill http://tagadavaoko.blogspot.com/
i have been chosen “i have no opinion” coz i maybe agree to the rh and do not agreee to the rh
This bill does not have abortion on it, but, but where would it lead? its a step by step process and it would lead to abortion. the Philippines is not an over populated place but an over corrupted country. The Philippines is the First republic in asia but still we are suffering from poverty it is because of the corrupt government we have. Our population is not the problem but the population of the corruptors in the government. This bill is just a propaganda to divert our attention of what is really happening in our kaban ng bayan. wake up people. this bill would only destroy the Filipino image, could you imagine children buying condoms and parents saying dont forget to bring your condoms. what a disgusting image.
Hiroyuki,
Kung sisihin mo ang gobyerno akala mo ito lang ang tanging may kasalanan sa korupsyon.
Walang kurakot kung walang mga tao na hinahayaan ang kurapsyon.
And this bill is in the context of individuals, married individuals. TO HELP THEM WITH FAMILY PLANNING. NOT FORNICATION MANAGEMENT. FAMILY PLANNING ok? Therefore it is assumed na MAG-ASAWA na ang magaavail nito. Or may pamilya.
You are just appealing to the emotions (which is a fallacy) whenever you say na “imagine our children buying condoms and parents saying dont forget to bring your condoms.” Now if this ever happens, gobyerno parin ba ang may kasalanan? Kasalanan ba ng gobyerno ang mga kalokohan na gagawin/ginagawa ng mga anak? Hindi ba’t salamin lamang ng kalidad ng PARENTHOOD ang resulta sa buhay ng mga anak. Kung yung magasawa ay nabuntis bago i-kasal, malamang sa malamang ganun din ang magiging anak, kung ang magulang ay parehas na hiwalay, malamang sa malamang ganun din ang mangyayari sa anak (ITO AY BACKED UP BY STATISTICS). So kasalanan parin ba ng gobyerno?
Pagdating sa korupsyon, ano na ginawa mo para malabanan ang korupsyon? Nandyan ka lang ba sa tv mo at nanunuod ng mga pangyayari sa bansa? o isa ka sa mga kagaya ko na humaharap sa hamon? Sumusulat ka ba sa congressman mo? Kung hindi, subukan mo na. Wag ka magsalita lang. Gumawa ka.
I think the government is already implementing what is already written in this bill except maybe the organization of the agencies to implement it. Go to any barangay health care center and they are giving free condoms and educating the constituents of artificial birth control. What could this law do more? More spending I guess for the government. This is what I believe – the population problem in the philippines will be very far from over unless and until we progress economically and industrially. No law prohibiting this and that, giving this or that, will ever stop the population growth. What makes population growth to decline? Progress. Take the very example of First world countries. Why do they have a very hard time in making babies? Because they are very busy working. In our country, what family makes the biggest number of babies, the squatters people. Why? Because they don’t do anything. If your mind is idle, you think of sex. Basic Freudian concept. Take the example of China, its population control in the 80’s and 90’s was not a success if not for their country’s economic boom. You cannot control natural law by forcing information into every individual, and giving them piece meal control. Give them something to do, and they will forget about sex or be too tired to indulge into sex.
look, what have you done yourself to help the country have its fare share of “economic boom?” Did you invest in this country? Say, start a business and employ a number of people so these people will be busy enough not to just think of sex?
I think you’re over simplifying the issue.
Sex is not just a function of time and idleness.
Para mo naring sinabi na sex lang ang alam gawin ng mga INFORMAL settlers. And the way you talk about them, it only shows you do not really know what is happening to them. Do you know that everyday, these informal settlers are praying so hard to get their next big thing of job, or opportunity? They constantly seek for opportunities and work. They are hard working people (not all of them but majority of them, same with the rich people, not all rich people are hard working people).
Para mo naring sinabi na ang sex ay pampalipas oras lang at ito ay walang kalakip na pagibig.
You talk about sex as if its just a hobby. Probably you are just indulging to pornographic materials and not investing time in a real loving, interactive relationship. You see, love is unexplainable and sex with your spouse (im just pertaining to sex inside marriage here) is one of the most glorious thing created by God.
please present a bill with discourages the used of contraceptive. I am not with the church as well as in the government but i think it is right.
im not PRO NOYNOY but im a believer of GOD but im not always attend mass church. there’s a positive and negative about this bill and if you read the bill from the beginning to the end. this RH bill promotes and refers to both natural and artificial method. were they indicate that “the couple has a choice of family planning method that suited to the needs and of course the choice”. it indicates also the prevention of abortion and post abortion. it also stated their about the massive spreading of information for couples about the range of family size and the minimum is two but if the couple prefers to have more than 2 children its ok, and depends on their wants. it only educates the couple about their health reproductive specially the involvement of the men about that. the only thing i dont want to this bill is that they educate the youth about the reproductive health (it’s not only the sex education that stated in some parts of the bill) in the early stage of grade 5. for me that age doesn’t have any idea about the process of reproductive. it’s just about the how the baby formed at the womb and the menstrual cycle flow. aside from that nothing. and giving them the idea on how to do the process of having a baby is very inappropriate. since they dont give a single damn about this issue and the only know is crush and love. I think they should start educate the youth at Second year high school since they have all the idea about that and most of the age range from that. aside from that they are already fertile unlike the grade 5 student. im very horrified thinking that my sister who reached Grade 5 in the next two years will know everything about men and women stuff. they should revise and concentrate in couple who doesnt have a mind set on how many members do they capable of not wants. because of we said wants, even 20 children is ok but if we range it from what they capable of as parents it could be range from 2 if you poor and if your from reached family you can have the 20 children. there’s a positive and negative on this bill and it promotes BOTH NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL DEPENDS ON THE NEEDS AND CHOICE OF COUPLE. try to read and consider first. thanks
DZIQ: Oral contraceptives have ‘more health benefits’—ex-DoH chief
INQUIRER.net
First Posted 12:08:00 04/27/2011
Filed Under: Health, Population, Family planning, Conflicts (general), Medicines
MANILA, Philippines – Oral contraceptives have more health benefits than bad side effects, said former Health Secretary Esperanza Cabral in an interview with Radyo Inquirer Wednesday.
When asked whether it was true that oral contraceptives posed a higher risk of breast cancer, Cabral answered in the affirmative but quickly added that “all medical products have good and side (bad) effects.”
“Oral contraceptives have bad side effects but there are more good effects,” Cabral said.
She said that taking oral contraceptives may lower the incidence of certain cancers such as endometrial cancer by 50% and ovarian cancer by 40%.
She also said that using oral contraceptives may prevent some breast diseases, pelvic inflammatory diseases, ectopic pregnancies, could help regulate blood flow during menstruation, which could prevent anemia, provide protection against arthritis and osteoporosis.
Cabral is a known supporter of the Reproductive Health (RH) bill, which promotes the use of artificial methods of family planning.
The RH bill has come under fire from the Catholic Church, which has branded this piece of legislation “immoral.”
I think we dont need another bill for the population issue but it is a question of management of governtment to deal the population.
Church and state should not colide dealing the issue but help each other to settle the problem.
1) government should provide training and management information necessary for each family or those young couples.
2) Church should provide moral information to motivate family and uplift their morale.
3) Government should intensify marriage regulation not just in its legal age na pwede na magpakasal dapat may trabaho and makatapos sa pag-aaral.
4) Government should also regulate hotels, resorts and motels which men and women customers should present marriage contract ID para hindi dumadami ang iligitimate children, single parents issue, and pre marital sex issue.
5) Regulate population in each barangay via workforce necessary for each locality.
6) Regulate TV shows and programs that magnify imorality rather inspire people to motivate in helping the country and other people.
RH bill is another cost to be shoulder by the government and matutuwa na naman ang mga congressman kasi dagdag pondo sa kanilang sinasakupan na sana ay napupunta sa tamang lugar at hindi sa bulsa nila.
They promoting this bill because their businessmen not countrymen.
One clarification: is the Catholic Church ok with “natural” contraception (i.e. withdrawal, wec.)? Why or why not?
The Catholic Church is not Ok with withdrawal. Withdrawal and masturbation both waste the seed of man which God had a sacred purpose for, and, that is the creation of life.
the roman catholic church is abusing its power and influence.
the roman catholic church’s dominion is in preaching the word of God and let the government do its part on regulating the state.
The church should just teach its constituent what is good and what is not good. You let the catholics decide at the end of the day.
Regardless of what the government do, the catholics have and the rest of the people should have a say on their own lives.
If there are lesser babies born, then there are lesser “binyag” and as we all know the “church” charge fees on this. Lesser fees means lesser income. Look at the lavish Vatican Church.. imagine if all of its billions of dollars be donated to the poor. Will they do it? I GUESS NOT. I CHALLENGE THE VATICAN TO DO JUST THAT. To give up all its golds and silvers for the salvation of the poor.
As we all know withdrawal and all the “natural” methods (except abstinence) are all dangerous form of family planning as the sexual organs of males and females are not totally controlled by the brain, meaning even if you have not reached the climax stage it is possible that you will release semen even before removing your genital from the vagina of the woman because you cannot control that part of your body (GO AHEAD AND TRY), you can only stimulate it, but once its about to go, you can’t control it.
Contraceptives help you manage this naturally uncontrollable matter.
Let the people decide on their own lives. RH Bill gives the people to choose.
Let the hypocritical ROMAN CATHOLIC church and its perverse leaders who takes a bow of celibacy yet ejaculates secretly be forever trapped within their own pretentious lives.
di nila inaabuse yung power nila pagdating kase sa moral values dapat talagang makialam ang ating inaanibang religion kase diba aminin natin kasama ng mga magulang natin isa sila sa naghuhubog ng ating values…
second coming na,,,,,,,,,,time for peace na
OMG. Animals CANNOT fast! They CANNOT even reason out! The reason for their “season of mating” [and not meeting, OMG] is ESTROUS CYLCE. Do you know that humans do not undergo estrous cyles?? And you know, you cannot compare animals with humans because they are just so different. Animals don’t do introspection, do they?? And what do you mean by “THE WORLD IS NOT OVERPOPULATED”?? Are you blind or something?? Too naive.
And oh, RH bill does not encourage the youth to engage in pre-marital sex. It is clearly stated in Section 12 that it promotes: “g. Abstinence before marriage”. If you’re not married, then YOU SHOULD NOT DO IT! This does not violate any teaching of the Church, does it? RH bill tells us to be responsible enough since it covers sex education. If there is one thing that should be added to this bill, this is what it should be: Condoms and other birth control methods are only purchasable by MARRIED PEOPLE. 😛
Either natural or artificial method of f-planning,being sure that the couple can support the family size they choose to have.having birth spacing and a family size which is sustainable can give a chance and opportunity for the children to live well.
The governing principles are clear for the RH bill. Thus, the merits for its approval are also clear. Thanks
And so what if it would violate the church?!!!!! Who here is free from sins? Not even the church people are! Pedophiles and molesters! The church doesn’t answer to the government or to the people of this country!!! Their loyalty belongs to Vatican! Not the Philippines! That is why they could care less for our well-being! And looking back from the history of the activities of the church way back when they killed brilliant scientists by labeling them as witches, killing other people who didn’t want to be converted through The Crusade, the DAMASOs, Noli Me Tangere and El filibuterismo.
If this will pass in the Congress will our country spend billions per year?
If this will pass can you be sure that our country will progress even the corruptions will continue?
I think not but at least it would improve the health of people especially sa women.
RH bill will help the awareness of people about family planning which the couple can choose what to use either natural or artificial. It will protect the rights of women against discrimination at work. Also women can be protected from any ailment brought by multiple pregnancies. Example cancer of the cervix, prolapsed uterus and others. This bill can give informations to teenagers on how they can take care of themselves and not to be ignorant about sex. Prevention of teenage pregnancy and safe sex. It does not promote pre-marital sex. That would be the responsibility of parents. Sometimes parents tend to give wrong information about it also. Give this Bill a chance it does not state to limit number of children to 2. It only suggest that the ideal family size. This bill can help us promote wellness to people. Think of its effect to our country.
Lagi sinasabi ng nagsusulong ng RH bill na malayang pagpili ng pamilya para sa gusto nilang way ng pagpaplano bakit pa kailangan isa batas ibig sabihin kapag naisabatas ang RH bill kinitil na nila ang kalayaan ng pagpili, kase kailangan mo ng sundin kase batas na nga eh nasan ang malayang pagpili din???
the catholic church need to stop thinking that they own the whole philippines. while it may be right for the church to state their teachings to catholics, they should not do so for the rest of the country.
Phil need this..were not like going to abort kids diba? wala pa namang baby or human life na nageexist..were not going to kill anyone here, family planning and other contraceptives are way para ndi na lumala ang kahirapan at mga nagugutom dito dahil anak ng anak na ndi namn nila nkkayang alagaan.. so bakit kelangang may magdisagree kay ninoy?
over population ay hindi dahilan ng kahirapan ..stupid reasoning
ang pinagka abalahan ninyong lahat na arguments parte sa rh bill ay mababaw..
What happens when a newly fertilized human egg (zygote) splits (TWINS) – Does each get a half-soul? Or – does one get a whole ‘soul’ and the other just be a soulless zombie?
So if God is all-knowing and puts two ‘souls’ into a single zygote (thinking it will split) and it is aborted – have you committed a “double” murder? With triplet zygote’s ‘triple’ murder?
What about a parasitic twin or an un-developed fetus without even a brain? What about 1 baby and 2 heads? How many ‘souls’ are there now?
WOW – even the ‘souls’ could be getting confused!
What about CLONES? Would God know how many ‘souls’ to send if many clones are taken from one zygote? How would God know? What are the many moral implications?
Does God know in advance if a zygote is not viable and so doesn’t send a soul?
kung ganyan ang basihan sa argumento ninyo about rh bill din di kayo matatapos .hindi madetermina ang gravity ng pros and cons sa rh bill…hayyyyy!!
sana, basahin muna nating maigi ang panukalang ito_cguro nga ayaw ng simbahan to, d dahil sa ayaw nila sa condoms and contraceptives kundi dahil sa moral values dahil cguro sa mga BUTAS ng ilang mga nakalagay d2_
halimbawa:
SEC. 3. Guiding Principles. – This Act declares the following as basic guiding principles:
l. Respect for, protection and fulfillment of reproductive health rights seek to promote not only the rights and welfare of adult individuals and couples but those of adolescents’ and children’s as well; and
(- BAKIT KAILANGAN PA ISALI ANG “CHILDREN” D2??KAHIT NGA SIGURO SA “ADOLESCENTS” SABLAY_)
SEC. 4. Definition of Terms. – For purposes of this Act, the following terms shall be defined as follows:
c. Reproductive Health -refers to the state of physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity, in all matters relating to the reproductive system and to its funcitions and processes. THIS IMPLIES THAT PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO HAVE A SATISFYING AND SAFE SEX LIFE, THAT THEY HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO REPRODUCE AND THE FREEDOM TO DECIDE IF, WHEN AND HOW OFTEN TO DO SO, PROVIDED THAT THESE ARE NOT AGAINST THE LAW. This further implies that women and men are afforded equal status in matters related to sexual relations and reproduction.
(- SA NAKA EMPHASIZE, NAKACAPITALIZE AND BOLD, HINDI NAKALAGAY KUNG SINO ANG TINUTUKOY_ WALANG NAKALAGAY NA AGE, SO IT MEANS NAKASAMA ANG MGA BATA D2???HMMMM!!!)
g. Reproductive Health Care – refers to the availability of and access to a full range of methods, techniques, supplies and services that contribute to reproductive and sexual health and well-being by preventing and solving reproductive health-related problems in order to achieve enhancement of life and personal relations. The elements of reproductive health care include:
8. Education and counseling on sexuality and sexual and reproductive health;
12. Reproductive health education for the youth.
(- PLS, BE SPECIFIC WITH THE AGE, NO KIDS ALLOWED)
h. Reproductive Health Education – refers to the process of acquiring complete, accurate and relevant information on all matters relating to the reproductive system, its functions AND PROCESSES and human sexuality; and forming attitudes and beliefs about sex, sexual identity, interpersonal relationships, affection, intimacy and gender roles. It also includes developing the necessary skills do be able to distinguish between facts and myths on sex and sexuality; and critically evaluate. and discuss the moral, religious, social and cultural dimensions of related sensitive issues such as contraception and abortion.
(LOLS, BAKIT PATI PROCESSES ISASAMA??HAHAHA!!)
SEC. 5. The Commission on Population (POPC0NI).
k. To ensure a massive and sustained information drive on RESPONSIBLE PARENTHOOD AND ON ALL METHODS AND TECHNIQUES TO PREVENT UNWANTED, UNPLANNED AND MISTIMED PREGNANCIES, it shall release information bulletins on the same for nationwide circulation to all government departments, agencies and instrumentalities, non-government organizations and the private sector, schools, public and private libraries, tri-media outlets, workplaces, hospitals and concerned health institutions;
(-KAKULANGAN SA ‘AGE LIMIT’_DAPAT ILAGAY NILA KUNG SINO-SINO ANG MAKAKA AVAIL NITO??PWEDE ABUSUHIN ETO KUNG HINDI KLARO_BAKA NAMAN MAITURO SA KABATAAN(MINOR AGE) ANG PREGNANCY?DAPAT ITURO YUNG DISADVANTAGES NG MAAGANG PAKIKIPAG SEX_)
SEC. 11. Mobile Health Care Service. -Each Congressional District shall be provided with a van to be known as the Mobile Health Care Service (MHOS) to deliver health care goods and services to its constituents, more particularly to the poor and needy, as well as DISSEMINATE KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION ON REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH: Provided, That reproductive health education shall be conducted by competent and adequately trained persons preferably reproductive health care providers: Provided, further, That the full range of family planning methods, both natural and modern, shall be promoted.
(-KAKULANGAN SA ‘AGE LIMIT’_DAPAT ILAGAY NILA KUNG SINO-SINO ANG MAKAKA AVAIL NITO??PWEDE ABUSUHIN ETO KUNG HINDI KLARO)
SEC. 12. Mandatory Age-Appropriate Reproductive Health Education. – Recognizing the importance of reproductive health rights in empowering the youth and developing them into responsible adults, Reproductive Health Education in an age-appropriate manner shall be taught by adequately trained teachers starting from Grade 5 up to Fourth Year High School. In order to assure the prior training of teachers on reproductive health, the implementation of Reproductive Health Education shall commence at the start of the school year one year following the effectivity of this Act. The POPCOM, in coordination with the Department of Education, shall formulate the Reproductive Health Education curriculum, which shall be common to both public and private schools and shall include related population and development concepts in addition to the following subjects and standards:
(-DAPAT MAG KAROON NG SEPARATION NG SUBJECTS BETWEEN ‘GRADE SCHOOL’ AT ‘HIGH SCHOOL’ DBA?? CGURO NAMAN DI BABAGAY ITURO SA ‘GRADES SCHOOL YUNG IBANG ITUTURO SA ‘HIGHSCHOOL’_ISIP ISIP!!)
f. Use and application of natural and modern family planning methods to promote reproductive health, achieve desired family size and prevent unwanted, unplanned and mistimed pregnancies;
j. Maternal, pre-natal and post-natal education, care and services.
(-TANONG??BAKIT MO ITUTURO SA ISANG TAO ANG AYAW MONG GAWIN NYA??REMEMBER, NASA HIGHSCHOOL STAGE NAGKAKAROON NG CURIOUSITY ANG ISANG TAO_IF U TEACH THEM,THEY’LL TRY IT_THINK WISELY_BAKIT HINDI NA LNG ITURO NA ANG PREMARITAL SEX AY IMMORAL AT MAY MGA DISADVANTAGES PARA SA KANILA_)
SEC. 16. Ideal Family Size. – The State shall assist couples, parents and individuals to achieve their desired family size within the context of responsible parenthood for sustainable development and encourage them to have two children as the ideal family size. Attaining the ideal family size is neither mandatory nor compulsory. No punitive action shall be imposed on parents having more than two children.
(-ETO PARA SA AKING OPINION, ‘2’ IS A BAD NUMBER, BAKIT D NA LANG NILA GAWING ‘3’??? REMEMBER, “SI PAPA, SI MAMA, SI ATE AT SI KUYA” KUNG ITOTAL MO ‘3’ ANG ANAK_)
SEC. 19. Multi-Media Campaign. – POPCOM shall initiate and sustain an intensified nationwide multi-media campaign to raise the level of public awareness on the urgent need to protect and promote reproductive health and rights.
(-KAKULANGAN SA ‘AGE LIMIT’_ MAAARI KASING ABUSUHIN ETO, DAPAT ILAGAY NILA ANG ‘LEGAL AGE’ PARA D MADAMAY ANG MGA BATA)
SEC. 21. Prohibited Acts. – The following acts are prohibited:
(-SANA NAMAN ISAMA NILA SA PROHIBITED ACTS YUNG PAMIMIGAY NG ‘CONDOMS AT IBA PANG CONTRACEPTIVES’ SA PUBLIC_ DAPAT SA MGA CENTER , OSPITAL LNG SILA MAMIGAY_ NAKAKAWALA KASI NG MORAL YUNG LANTARAN NA PAMIMIGAY NITO_DAPAT MAY KAUKULANG PARUSA_)
comment lng kayo, atleast maunawaan nating lahat kung ano b talaga ang RH Bill_
I THINK WE ALL SHOULD SUGGEST THAT THEY GIVE A PUBLIC DISCUSSION ABT IT, INCLUDING THE PRO’S AND ANTI’S RH BILL. I GUESS WE ONLY BELIEVE ON OUR OWN SIDE, ITS HUMAN NATURE. WE BELIEVE WHAT WE WANT OT BELIEVE INTO. GET NYO???
One of the main arguments being raised by so-called Pro-life groups against RH Bill is that it violates freedom of expression and conscience. Their reason in saying so is, first, it seeks to make sex education mandatory from Grade 5 to Fourth Year High School, and penalizes malicious “disinformation”. Second, it supposedly punishes with imprisonment or fine health-care service providers who refuse, by reason of religious belief, to provide reproductive health care services like ligation and vasectomy to patients in an emergency or serious case.
Do these provisions really violate human freedoms? Let us look closely.
The purpose of the envisaged program of mandatory sex education is to teach young Filipinos about the workings of their own body. This is to enable them to make informed choices as to the size of the family they might wish to have in the future. Correct, the students would be taught the facts, but the making of decisions would still be their responsibility.
RH Bill does not intend to teach students to use artificial contraceptives once they grow up. No, it does not even envision teaching the students to use contraceptives at all. So there would be no coercion whatsoever to take place in the schools once RH Bill is passed. If there is anybody who would violate the rights of the people in this instance, it is not the RH Bill. Rather, it is the people who would deliberately withhold from students information—information that have a bearing on their future. The people who, concerned that students might make wrong choices in the future, would rather not give them the chance to at all. People who think patronizingly of the others’ intelligence they would rather think for them. If there is anybody who would violate the rights of people, it is the people of this kind. And it is this kind of people, precisely, that the RH Bill seeks to penalize.
Now, as for the supposedly objectionable portion of the RH Bill which punishes health-care service providers who refuse to provide reproductive health care services to patients in emergency cases, qualifications must be made. RH Bill would not punish those who, by reasons of religious beliefs, refuse to perform certain medical operations on patients as long as: first, he “immediately refer(s) the person seeking such care and services to another health care service provider within the same facility or one which is conveniently accessible; and second, “the patient is not in an emergency or serious case as defined in RA 8344 penalizing the refusal of hospitals and medical clinics to administer appropriate initial medical treatment and support in emergency and serious cases.”
It is clear, therefore, that RH Bill would proceed with its avowed objective of ensuring the accessibility to the public of reproductive health care services without in the least disregarding the religious rights of people tasked to provide them. Only the people who themselves seek to subvert the right of their neighbors to have access to reproductive health care services who should have something to fear once RH Bill is passed.
The objections to the RH Bill on the grounds that it would violate certain freedoms are, therefore, entirely groundless. If the libertarians who are opposing RH Bill because they perceive it to be violative of the freedom of expression and conscience are really serious in protecting the rights of Filipinos, they need only look at the existing libel law and the Roman Catholic Church. The former has repeatedly been abused by powers-that-be in order to threaten those who are trying to bring to the knowledge of the public truths regarding abuses of power. The latter has been guilty, in many instances, of seeking to endow some of her institutional beliefs with a force of a law by threatening electoral defeats to officials who dare disagree, and in the process, deny non-Catholics the right to conduct their life the way they please. The libertarians want to protect the rights of the Filipinos, let them take on these evils.
I hope that RH Bill will be passed in the soonest possible time. Because the point of this proposed law is the recognition of the right of people to be informed and make decisions for themselves—whether right or wrong—and is, therefore, another huge step towards the attainment of a truly democratic and humane society. At least, that is how one should feel about it if he believes in democracy.
how come that it promotes abortion???? when the life of the unborn child begins…. is in the process of making a baby… in sexual intercourse.. or during the developing stages….kung sinasabi nyo na ang paglaki ng pupolation ay hindi sanhi ng kahirapan…obsebahan nyo sa eskwelahan..sa classroom…70 students: 1 teacher..that is supposed to be 45 students: 1 teacher..in the hospital 1 nurse: 80 patients(estimated)…at hindi sapat ang pagkain na inaani sa dami ng tao…
let us be realistic.. we are in the modern time, were Filipinos that are educated and we fight for our freedom …that we are not in the Spanish and Frailty times that they always dictates their own will… almost likely Padre Damaso…
the RH Bill DOES NOT promote abortion. the bill is against abortion. read the bill please.
It does not promote abortion but RH bill promotes to use contraceptives that may lead to abortion…read carefully and analyze the bill please.
how does contraceptives lead to abortion? contraceptives prevent the sperm from meeting with the egg, no conception has occurred.
It may lead to abortion. yes, it is true that growth of population is not the cause of poverty. Assuming your data is correct, nagkakaroon ng ganyan sitwsyon sa school dahil sa kulang na pagpondo ng gobyerno sa pagpapatayo ng mga school buildings, hindi ko magawang i-assume na tama ang data mo sa nurse dahil sobra sobra nga tayo sa nurse at hindi malaman kung saan sila ilalagay at ang iba nga ay namamasukan na as call center…nagkukulang ang ating pagkain dahil marami ng magsasaka ang ayaw ng magsaka at ganon din ang mangngisda kung totoo nga na nagkukulang sa pagkain at hindi yun dahil sa dami ng tao…
Matagal na tayong realistic at alam ng matagal ang history natin at tayo nga ay nasa mkabagong panahon na, so, ano ang punto mo? Ang pagkontra sa RH bill ay hindi nangangahulugan ng pagpanig sa pagkatao ng sinasabi mong Padre Damaso…ang pagkontra ay sa dahilang magdudulot lamang ng dagdag na suliranin sa bansa ang RH bill…
the content of RH bill looks good except sections 9 and 10, can we just exclude these and delete! While in section 12 can we change some statements there, instead of sex education starting from grade 5, it must be started from 2nd year or to be more specific at the age of 14 because there are students who are already old but still in elementary.
starting it at 2nd year is too late.
i do believe that RH Bill promotes humanitarian and economic purposes….. humanitarian purpose, in the sense that,it will promote a healthy and happy families. Economic purpose because it will address problems with scarce resources.
That is your belief, we respect it but don’t expect we will agree with you!
bakla ka kasi romel FUCK YOU! BAKIT KAYA BA NG CHURCH NYO NA ALAGAAN ANG MGA POOR??O,CMON FUCK YOU,ONLY LUGAW LNG YOUR CHURCH CAN AFFORD. AND ITS NOT A LIFETIME na bibigyan nyo sila ng food,and as you can see your just making the meaning of conception more complicated.eh nag masturbate ka nga eh bakit hindi ba yan abortion kung yan ang gusto ko na i meaning gusto mo ba yan?! ha?!
Thanks for your insights! My whole me is ANTI to this bill. . .don’t be so selfish…
RH Bill is just a matter of choice. It does not promote abortion it even mention against premarital sex and mentions the importance of marriage before sex. It assures medical access down to the underpriveleged. If a person’s morality is well founded there is nothing to fear. It is actually a challenge to the church how strong their hold is to their faithfuls. Who commits more sin, a catholic who do not practice family planning with family size beyond the parents capacity to support their children such that they end up underpriveleged, unable to go to school and live a decent and comfortable life or a catholic who controlled the size of his/her family and is able to give his children good life able to go to good expensive catholic schools meant only for the rich and able to raise their children decently showing them how beautiful life is and able to do charitable works after school.
I dont think it is necessary to pass the RH bill contraceptives and any other form of birth control is already available in the market , Its up to us wheter we use it or not , and I believe our generation is bright enough to know our present situation , I know some couples only have 1 or 2 kids eventhough they are capable of having more , well it is because we know the consequence of having a big family , These people in the Congress they just want to pass this bill for them to get more money from our government, well i heard that foreign country’s will donate money to promulgate this , so with that they can get their share ….
”sanctify life not in contraception.”
does the rh bill really promotes the life of every individual, or destroy every life’s values? it is a counter current flow that only trouble human…do not just read every passage of the article, feel it by your heart to which way does it leads us? to the promotion of life, destruction of life’s values? perception on the real meaning of the rh bill does not rely on the reading of every text we may read but to the decision as to which is much important…pro life, anti life’s values?
isn’t it difficult to guess? i believe people perceived the rh bill may take on the ages onwards… they just close their eyes to justify their minds…
bigger family is bad but smaller family is worst….
I “believe” that this bill is timely and right, without even reading its full content, just by looking around the crowded streets and slums. I’d rather have my paid taxes, from a hard-earned income, be spent on the control of the number of mouths to be fed, than feeding programs and housing for those who cannot afford the basic needs of life. Something to reflect on: you have worked hard for several years yet still don’t have your own home, then you’ll see in the television houses and land being given to the poor. I believe in considering the need for this bill should tackle not moral issues, but issues that we have to face given the current situation of our lives and “reality”.
MR. PRESIDENT, WHAT IF TITA CORY USED CONTRACEPTIVES 50 YEARS AGO? SA TINGIN MO IPAPANGANAK KA AT MAGIGING PANGULO KA NGAYON?
a silly question.
A VALID QUESTION. YES PRESIDENT NOYNOY.. YOU SHOULD ANSWER THIS
RH Bill is pro-choice.
rh bill ia anti-choice. gusto ng bill na ito na saklawan ang karapatan ng mga tumututol dito.
para sakin .. pro payag ako sa Rh Bill.. hindi gagawa ang pangulo ng isang Batas kung alam niyang makadaragdag sa problem ng isa bansa .. masyado lang nag rereact ang ibang tao par dito.. hindi rin sinasabi na binibigyan ang mga babae ng permisyon na pumatay ng isang bata.. o ng tao.. instead iminumulat tau sa tamang paraan ng pag buo ng isang pamilya … para sa akin… ” aanhin mo ang maraming anak kung hindi mo naman mapapakain ng 3 beses sa isang araw at hindi mo mabibigyan ng sapat na pangangailangan.. mali siguro para sa ibang tao ang gagawing batas na ito.. pero para sakin.. tama lang ito para umangat naman tayo. 🙂
Philippines is one of the third world countries for decades. From it’s population, 30% are educated, 20% are mid-educated and 50% are unfortunate. RH bill is clearly understood by people who are well educated. In this comes discipline, knowledge and fear in the Lord. If this provision will be followed exactly the way it should be…it may become one of the great factors to trim down poverty. Filter against unwanted measures. Why not try to embrace this RH bill first before anticipating any negative personal aspects. If the government will find it not fruitful for any reasons, alter any provisions and improve what was lacking in it. Let’s be broadminded enough and uphold unity…this is for us… for our country…for our children’s future. I greatly support RH BILL.
Definition: The intentional prevention of conception through the use of various devices, sexual practices, chemicals, drugs, or surgical procedures. This means that something (or some behavior) becomes a contraceptive if its purpose is to prevent a woman from becoming pregnant. There are several types of contraceptives that have been officially labeled as such because they have shown reliability in preventing conception from occurring.
I’ve been reading most of the posts here and I’d like to express my views regarding some of the misleading statements (note: I did not say false statements) that have come up.
1. That the Philippines is not overpopulated and overpopulation does not cause poverty.
My view: To say that overpopulation is a mere ratio of people to total land area is an overly simplistic view. For me, overpopulation is a function as well of a nation’s capacity to provide for it’s people. (I’m not an economist so I don’t know if there’s a term for this.) In a microscopic view, if a family of 7 is only able to provide food for 5 people, I don’t care if they live in a 10-hectare mansion or a 2mx2m carton under a bridge, to me, the family is either oversized or underproviding or both.
Which leads me to my point: Poverty is a big enemy that needs to be attacked at all fronts. Saying that “kapag walang corrupt, walang mahirap” is not enough. Even if there’s no corruption, but if the nation is unable to provide enough food for the growing number of people, there will still be hunger. We need programs/policies for employment, anti-corruption, food production, education, infrastructure, etc., and, yes, including population control. We can not go full force on one aspect and ignore the others. We must have all systems in place, or else it just wouldn’t work. We may be able to find a formula/equation to solve poverty, but any mathematician can tell you that if you leave a variable uncheked, sooner or later that formula will no longer work because you will be operating beyond the limits. And in our culture/society, the variable that is often left out is population because of certain beliefs and miseducation.
Overpopulation is not the sole cause of poverty, but it is contributory to it. Those that deny this are simply not being realistic.
2. That contraceptives lead (eventually) to abortion.
My view: I have to concede that some MFP methods cause abortion. And for this I would disagree with the bill because I value human life. But I have to say that some NFP are simply unnatural and not as effective as well. So what I would like to see here is that they identify and exclude, for both MFP and NFP, which are abortifacients and which are not, which have side-effects and which do not, etc. I do not subscribe to the idea that if there’s one bad apple in the basket, let’s throw the whole basket away.
But then there’s the argument that societies that started accepting contraceptives eventually accepted abortion as well. Well I agree that when you become lenient/complacent on little matters, you get desensetized (no pun intended) and become more tolerant of the bigger matters. And therein lies the problem.
We need a program for population control but our society I think is not mentally, morally and socially ready for the responsibility. If one is not even disciplined to obey a simple “bawal tumawid, nakamamatay” or a “bawal umihi dito” sign, how can we expect people to use contraceptives as the law intends it to be? It’s like giving him a gun with instructions to use it for defense only. Education, you say? What more education can you give, other than reading of course, to the “bawal tumawid” violators?
2. That sex is a moral and sacred duty for procreation.
My view: This was raised above but never categorically answered. The arguments went here and there, to rape and incest, but not really closed. Is sex for pleasure in the context of marriage immoral?
For me, in the context of both love AND marriage, sex is BOTH for pleasure and procreation. Without love, sex for procreation is called “palahian” and sex for pleasure is called “parausan”. Both are of the flesh and are unacceptable. But with love, it rises above the flesh and provides emotional and spiritual intimacy. I don’t see any immorality when married couples engage in LOVE making even without intent of procreation, even just for purposes of pleasure. Sex is part of their privilege and gift as married couples, to enjoy one another’s company.
The problem is sex was demonized for being pleasurable and it was taught in archaic times that pleasure is of the devil. Sex for pleasure was associated with prostitute sex, or pagan ritual sex. Some even went as far as condemning pleasure in sex saying that it is the lust of the flesh. I say God invented sex and everything that came with it (i.e. life-giving, pleasure, intimacy, to-become-one-flesh, etc.) and he “saw all that he had made and it was very good”. However, use only as instructed. 🙂
3. That the bill promotes immorality and promiscuity, even among the unmarried and the young.
My view: This is another speculative fear, though it is not baseless. Undoubtedly there is moral degradation in the country. I remember a story where the “pamboboso” of old times was watching the “sakong” of women in their “saya” as they alight from a “calesa”. Now, it is cellfone video sex scandal distributed over the internet.
The speculation was the RHbill will hasten this moral decline, to which no one can really know unless implemented. I think that with or without the bill, this decline will continue because somebody didn’t do their job, and I can say that it isn’t the State. We can always argue foreign or even supernatural influence of course, but if the moral foundation is stable in the first place, it can withstand the strongest earthquakes.
4. That sex education in schools is inappropriate and immoral.
My view: Now this is very funny! The scenario being pictured is that of grade5 pupils being shown porn in school and have practical exams afterwards. How stupidly immature! There are sex education in other countries and we do not see these happening, except perhaps in actual porn movies and hentai. (Hey, maybe that’s where they got these ideas. 🙂
Cm’on, grow up! DepEd is not going to hire live actors to perform in front of a class. (That will be too difficult to justify in the budget.) Sex education is not coitus training or kama sutra. It includes biology, economics, social studies, values formation, etc. And most of it are being taught already, but in the context of other subjects, not specifically for sex education.
However to alleviate fears of parents, what i would like to see is that sex education be divided into two. Let the “nature” side be handled by the professionals, and leave the “nurture” side to the parents/church. When I say “nature”, I meant the more objective parts like economics or anatomy. I just can’t picture a parent saying, “O anak, eto ang labia.” Let that be handled by the pros, with proper visual aids and tools. And let the more subjective parts, or the “nurture” side, be handled by the parents, giving them complete rein over how they want their children’s values formed.
And of course, the key words for both sides should be “age appropriate”.
EDIT: Now they’re going to give parents the options not to allow their children to attend sex education classes. (Aw, shucks! What about the live show.) This is just like ROTC, make it optional, noone will take it.
5. That these are the end times and the RC church is the only one standing against the satanists/atheists, who proposes this bill.
My view: Frankly, I’m appalled that some people, so knowledgeable in their faith, would be so legalistically myopic as to resort to threats, namecalling and “doomsaying”. That’s hardly even the issue. And if we resort to that sort of underhanded attacks, it can actually backfire. I’m sure you are well aware that in some faiths, the RC church is seen as the “whore of Babylon”, the pope is the anti-christ, or the only one capable of establishing a “one world-one religion” these days is not the UN but the RC church. Dismissing it as heresy/blasphemy does nothing to weaken the merits of their arguments/interpretation/beliefs.
I do not want to engage in theological debate, for I respect the RC faith, but wasn’t it that even during Jesus’ times, the most blind were the Pharisees, who were supposed to be the most learned and yet failed to see the Son of Man in front of them. And didn’t John warned against adding or removing from the book of Revelations, in a similar manner that Paul warned against people or even angels preaching a different gospel, to which, I think, all modern doomsayers may be guilty of. To which you may say that interpretation is not adding, but reading between the lines. To which I say when you take sources from tradition or “alleged” words of saints (I’m only saying “alleged” because not all faith accept it as truth and not because I am challenging its veracity), then I’m saying that’s adding. To which the debate will go on and on, which I am trying to avoid.
The point I’d like to make is a “holier-than-thou” attitude by others often causes more to stumble than be convinced of the faith. It’s being like a life insurance salesman and his sales pitch was “what do you think would happen if you die tonight and you don’t have life insurance”. Would you buy from that salesman?
6. That one side say this is a moral issue, while the other say this is a health and economics issue.
My view: I was inclined to agree with both, but looking at the proponents make me want to take a step back and reanalyze.
The most vocal for the moral issue side was this group of bishops who even said that “when it comes to morality, there is no compromise”. I agree 100%. But wait, aren’t they the same group of bishops who made a ho-humm so-so stand when the previous administration was being rocked left and right with charges of corruption? Last time I checked, corruption IS a morality issue. Well they did say they supported the search for truth, but I would have preferred it better if they threatened ex-communicado to all those who’ve been covering up the truth, since they’ve shown they had the guts to do so anyway.
As for the other side, I believe it is a group of politicians aided by a few women’s group. Oh, no, politicians! I’ve never trusted one, enuff said. For the women’s group, I just don’t understand why if they are advocating equality in this male dominated society do they have a special for-women-only car at MRT/LRT.
Well, most of the above I guess are just sarcastic remarks, but like I said, I was inclined to agree with both.
well for I am against with this bill because this bill is against life . Una sa lahat if this bill was legalized or approved marami nang mga kababaihan ang magpapa abbort remember every child was God gift to us. And majorly hindi nila naiintindihan the problem is not the huge population of the Philippines the problem is walang ginagawa ang government natin para tumaas ang kita ng mga manggagawa at kulang ang mga ginagawa nila para sugpuin ang mga iligal na gawain. Hindi rin nila pwede idahilan ang kakulangan sa budget kung tutuusin hindi naman magkukulang ang budget ng bansa kung itinitigil na sana ng mga may kapangyarihan ang pagnanakaw sa kaban ng bayan. I thought before the election when PNoy runs for the presidency Philippine government will be better than to the former goverment. I’m really disappointed to Pnoy I thought he was A good man but after I knew that he was against life nawala na ang trust and belief ko kay Mr. President
I do not agree on this bill coz human fertility is not a disease to be cured. Most progressive countries have this bill before and they have experience an increase in their mortality rate thus as of present, they are encouraging their citizens to have children as many as they could. for example is Australia, every woman who delivers a child receives an incentive. But still, it is not enough to encourage their citizens…
The RH bill merely gives people a choice (except for the sex ed part). The government will only make the methods and other stuff accessible, but will not force them upon the people. If the bill offends your beliefs, then just don’t participate. It’s as simple as that. As you are free to choose to not partake in the use of contraceptives, people should be as free to choose to use them. People have different beliefs. If one person’s belief is not going to affect your way of life, then just don’t mind them.
If you’re too concerned with a widespread exposure to sexuality, there is no need to be. It’s already widespread. You can see it everywhere. TV, movies, ads, etc. You may believe that sex was created only for procreation, but leisure sex is already widespread. So many people have sex with the sole purpose of pleasure and sometimes, things go unplanned. There are those without access to contraceptives and face the terrible problem of having to support so many children that they do not have the means to support. Had they had access to contraceptives, they would not have that problem and their children would not have to suffer as they do. Thankfully, the government recognizes these problems and have come up with a solution that is of the person’s choice.
THE RH BILL DOES NOT MERELY GIVE PEOPLE A CHOICE. On the contrary,
1) it mandates CHILDREN to attend sex education classes whether you (as parents) agree with it or not. for the simple reason that they assume that people cannot make an informed choice (especially the poor), or are too irresponsible to be able to control there sex urges, therefor the proponents would like to force their way of thinking that the children should be taught to use the contraceptives instead. NASAAN ANG CHOICE NG MAGULANG KUNG PAANO NILA GUSTO PALAKIHIN AT TURUAN ANG KANILANG MGA ANAK?
2( the proponents of the rh bill would like to force employers to provide rh services and devices to their employees. (you cannot choose not to do it if you are an employer, if this rh bill gets to pass into law.)
3. the rh bill shall penalize people who spread information which the proponents of the bill find contrary to the proponents way of thinking. (they shall call it misinformation. It is a provision in the Rh Bill)
4. the proponents of the bill would provide a budget, for the purchase of contraceptive devices to be given to people who want to avail of these devices. Where is the choice there? Shouldn’t we as tax payers have a choice where our taxes go? why should the government give condoms and pills to people who cannot control their sex urges. KUNG GUSTO NILANG MAG PILLS, CONDOMS, OR OTHER CONTRACEPTIVES, KARAPATAN NILA YUN. PERO BUMILI SILA GAMIT ANG SARILI NILANG PERA, BAKIT GAGAMITIN YUNG PERA NG TAONG BAYAN PARA SA LUHO NG IBA NA SILA LANG ANG MAKIKINABANG AT MASASARAPAN?
5)IT IS NOT THE CHURCH OR THE ANTI RH BILL THAT FORCES ITS MORALITY on people. The rh bill proponents are trying to force their ideas and morality to the people.
If the proponents want to use contraceptives, well and fine. It they want not to have children, that their right. But it is not within their rights to force people into their way of thinking (by use of this rh bill)
i agree with this bill, kaya lng ung downside nia db parang in a way we are tolerating the teens para gawin ang d dapat at mg-explore?
since hindi payag ang church y not putulan n lng ng “ano” ang mga guys pag lumagpas s 4 ang mga anak? papayag kaya ang simbahan??
ewan ko n lng kung d p mkontrol ang population,,, o baka dumami ang mga batang walang ama,,
even without this rh bill. every one is free to choose his way of contraception. GUSTO MO MAG PILLS- YOU ARE FREE TO DO IT. GUSTO MO MAG CONDOM – YOU ARE FREE TO DO IT NOW. You want ligation or vasectomy or iud– nobody is stopping you from getting access to it.
What this bill does is to make it mandatory by means of brainwashing our children (by means of mandatory attendance in sex education classes). So that when they are of reproductive age, the children will find it ACCEPTABLE OR EVEN THE EASIER CHOICE, to get contraceptives rather than to EXERCISE SELF CONTROL.
This bill not only makes it alright for teens to engage in promiscuity. It promotes it by making it alright so long as you have protection or contraceptives.
it is not mandatory attendance to sex education. and sex education is good for everyone.
IF YOU PUT SEX EDUCATION INTO TEXT BOOKS, AND THE CHILDREN ARE TASKED TO STUDY THESE TEXTBOOKS , THEN THIS IS MANDATORY. THE RH BILL WANTS PARENTS TO OPT OUT OF THIS MANDATORY LESSONS. BUT HOW MANY PARENTS WILL EVEN BE AWARE OF THESE LESSONS? REMEMBER THE LESSONS WILL BE FROM GRADE 5 TO 4TH YEAR HIGH SCHOOL. THIS OPT OUT IS DECEPTIVE.. WHAT THEY SHOULD PUT IN THERE IS OPT IN.. MEANING IF YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO ATTEND SEX EDUCATION CLASSES THEN YOU CAN OPT IN.. THE WAY TO OPTING OUT IS DECEPTIVE AND IS NOT REASONABLE
these are age appropriate sex education, nothing to worry about. sex education is not just sex, there are many other topics.
if you want your daughter, or sister, to learn how to use contraceptives at a young age., that is your prerogative.. but it not the right of people (proponents of the rh bill) to determine what is good for other people/s children. the parents have the pimary responsibility in the moral upbringing of their own children.
who says young people will be taught about contraceptives? haha. you are too pre occupied with contraceptives. sex education is not just about contraceptives, it is about sex, the body, biology and the sociology of human relationships and dynamics. lessons will be age appropriate, get a grip of yourself.
wawam,
i think your missing the point.. as early as 35 years ago, there have already been lessons in bodily functions(biology) physical education, family planning, iud’s , condoms, pill and natural family planning methods in public schools which i attended. in my grade school as early as grade five, we have have been taught about these things. There have been subjects also in good manners and right conduct… I think these lessons are ok.. (ALL THESE EVEN WITHOUT ThE RH BILL). Then you might be wondering why I am against this rh bill. Actually I am only against certain provisions which ARE REPUGNANT, and those that infringe on the right of parents to educate their children, especially those that touch on moral upbringing principles. This rh bill not only promotes education..IT PROMOTES THE USE OF CONTRACEPTION ! If you read the consolidatd version of this rh bill, it is not difficult to see.
You don’t have to take the sex ed if you don’t want to.
“Age-appropriate Reproductive Health and Sexuality Education shall be integrated in all relevant subjects…”
IF YOU PUT SEX EDUCATION INTO TEXT BOOKS, AND THE CHILDREN ARE TASKED TO STUDY THESE TEXTBOOKS , THEN THIS IS MANDATORY. THE RH BILL WANTS PARENTS TO OPT OUT OF THIS MANDATORY LESSONS. BUT HOW MANY PARENTS WILL EVEN BE AWARE OF THESE LESSONS? REMEMBER THE LESSONS WILL BE FROM GRADE 5 TO 4TH YEAR HIGH SCHOOL. THIS OPT OUT IS DECEPTIVE.. WHAT THEY SHOULD PUT IN THERE IS OPT IN.. MEANING IF YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO ATTEND SEX EDUCATION CLASSES THEN YOU CAN OPT IN.. THE WAY TO OPTING OUT IS DECEPTIVE AND IS NOT REASONABLE
Sex education will be a separate subject or tackled separately to allow parents to opt out. It is also age appropriate.
The church also promotes contraception – natural methods of contraception which is free and very easy for minors to learn. What’s the difference?
it is not mandatory if you are not a believer.
If the proponents want to use contraceptives, well and fine. It they want not to have children, that is their right. But it is not within their rights to force people into their way of thinking (by use of this rh bill)
where is it in the bill that says people will be forced?
wawam,
I do not know your educational background. But in Psychology and training, if you are promoting an idea, and you use mandatory education to propagate it, in layman terms, we call it BRAINWASHING. Brainwashing is the application of techniques that tend to persuade or coerce to implant ideas into the subjects. To affect a persons thought patterns and subsequent behavior (wether you realize it or not). That my friend is force.
Education is brainwashing??? hahaha
If the lessons are disagreeable to you, if you do not even want to attend these lessons, if the lessons are mandatory. Then it is brainwashing.
Let me make an analogy. If you are a Muslim child, and you are required to go to school. And the law says Christian education lessons are MANDATORY and an integral part of the curriculum. And all schools must have these lessons, in every part of the country, from primary to secondary, to non-formal education schools.
Now, your parents disagree with this curriculum, based on moral, conscience, religious grounds. But it is there in the curriculum, integrated in many subjects.
What can you do? Well, the law says you can opt out of these lessons. What if the lessons are integrated in many subjects? Will it be reasonable to believe that you can opt out? Is it reasonable to believe that every parent will be aware of these lessons?
In this situation the child will be forced to bear the burden of having this lessons whether the parents approve of it or not, whether the child wants these lessons or not, whether they are aware of it or not, whether the lessons are contrary to their beliefs or not. THIS IS BRAINWASHING.
You can opt out.
There are also provisions in the rh bill which will penalize people who do not follow its provisions. That is coercion. which when all taken into consideration tend to coerce people into following the provisions of the bill (wether you like it or not). Where is the freedom of choice in this bill?
FREEDOM OF INFORMED CHOICE? We already have it a long time ago.
WAWAM, i think i have explained myself well enough.. Let me ask you, WHAT IS YOUR STAND ON THINGS?
All laws have penalties in them. If it dies not have penalties, it is not a law but a guideline. The penalties are for medical professionals who choose to inform and educate patients on only 1 form of contraception. A key point of the bill is open and free choice of method for all.
THEN IT SHOULD BE A GUIDELINE INSTEAD.
It is the parents who have primary responsibility in the moral upbringing of his child. If the government through its laws unreasonably interferes with it, then the law is inherently wrong. THIS RH BILL is similar to this hypothetical situation above. There are good points in it. But if you include those that intrude on parental authority, and religious freedom and also considering the manner by which this law is to be implemented, maraming bad points itong rh bill. It is not a good law.
Alam mo ba na ang population ng mga muslim sa pilipinas is just a fraction of the entire population of the country? Pero mayroon silang special privileges. for example, pwede sila mag-asawa ng madami, maron silang principle na ‘blood money’, etc..
You know why? Because of ‘FREEDOM OF RELIGION’. We respect their right to their beliefs. Maski na it is contrary to ours.
MAYROON TAYONG FREEDOM DITO sa PILIPINAS. We should guard against any form of laws that will diminish our freedoms.
Alam mo, this bill does not increase any of your freedoms that you now already enjoy. You already have this freedom to choose, what ever you like. You most certainly know what is there to know about family planning, sexuality, social dynamics, if you only inform yourself about it. THIS BILL WILL NOT INCREASE YOUR KNOWLEDGE OR YOUR FREEDOM.
Guideline allows violation or non compliance. RH us such a serious issue that it needs to be made into a law. The Arroyo admin for example stopped the free distribution and promotion of modern methods of contraception and exclusively promoted traditional methods of contraception. it is this kind if arbitrary and whimsical shift in policies and programs that the RH bill as a law will stop.
i think this bill is very reasonable. however, as a nurse, children who are pre-pubertal are not psychologically and emotionally ready when it comes to sex. It think it would be better if they start with growth and development which happens to all anyway like menstruation etc. And what about the fact that a health worker can be imprisoned and penalized for not performing vasectomy or ligation to a person with legal age due to lack of spousal authorization. Don’t you think that’s a bit too much? what if, (like in many circumstances) the woman says that they still want to have a baby, would you still perform the ligation even if they don’t want to because the couple haven’t agreed on it yet? I think that’s a violation to patient’s rights.
I’m in favor of this Rh bill. I also respect the opinions of people who are against this bill. This bill wakes the Filipino people, because our big problem is the escalation of our population. The disadvantages of this is many Filipinos are poor, unemployed, increasing cases of crime, lack of resources, out of school youth and abused of power. I think this contraception is not abortion that most of us thinks or believed. Contraception prevents the meeting of egg and sperm cell so that it will prevent life. So there’s no abortion happened, and it’s clear there is no violation to the bible. Our government is focused and concerned to our countrymen to do what is necessary and right. So again, Let’s support RH Bill.. 🙂
even without this rh bill. every one is free to choose his way of contraception. GUSTO MO MAG PILLS- YOU ARE FREE TO DO IT. GUSTO MO MAG CONDOM – YOU ARE FREE TO DO IT NOW. You want ligation or vasectomy or iud– nobody is stopping you from getting access to it.
What this bill does is to make it mandatory by means of brainwashing our children (by means of mandatory attendance in sex education classes). So that when they are of reproductive age, the children will find it ACCEPTABLE OR EVEN THE EASIER CHOICE, to get contraceptives rather than to EXERCISE SELF CONTROL.
This bill not only makes it alright for teens to engage in promiscuity. It promotes it by making it alright so long as you have protection or contraceptives.
This Rh bill should be restricted to a rating of PG (parental guidance) or R (restricted) or even For Adults only.. This Rh bill makes it mandatory for children to attend sex education classes (without parental guidance).
Ano ba naman ang gusto ng proponents nitong Rh bill na gawin sa bansa natin?
Poverty is caused by lack of drive of people to succeed, lack of faith in God, and by greed/corruption of people. Sometimes by sheer stupidity and laziness.
The solution for poverty is not immorality. Spending of millions of pesos (tax payers money) to give away contraceptives to people, to me seems to be the wrong approach.
This rh bill penalizes people (threatening to imprison people who oppose its provisions) is inherently wrong. NASAAN dito ang pro-choice?
Next time, lets not vote pervert officials into office. Why are they pushing something not urgent and a highly ridiculous bill? I smell money.
HERE IS THE TRUTH:
Population control is a tool of the NEW WORLD ORDER to contain the number of people to a number they can control, manipulate, and enslave. The visible proponent of population control implementation is Henry Kissinger, a member of the satanic COUNCIL OF FOREIGN RELATIONS, TRILATERAL COMMISSION, BILDERBERG GROUP, etc. These people are in control of the Federal Reserve, IMF, World Bank, the US Government, EU, mainsteam media and all other antichrist organizations who fund satanic culture, music, arts, and tyrants around the world for the sole purpose of world dominion. They are also known as the elitests, money holders, illuminati, and free masons. They are linked to the assasination of JFK, and other leaders who stood for what is right around the world. They hi-jacked the American government and caused the decline of the US dollar.
Make no mistake about it, population control is not about economics but tyranny. According to Kissinger, third world population growth rate is a threat to national security and interests of the US (at least that’s how he sold the idea to the Americans). These people are behind eugenics, microchip implant, carbon tax (taxing the air we breath), World Trade Center deception. You will find the same people like David Rockfeller behind these evil works.
The entire global banking system is a scam. They can create inflation in your currency if you do not comply with their satanic requirements. And they can bail you out if you obey allow them to remove your sovereignty. The World Bank and IMF is their tool to impose regulations that will little by little open the gates of hell into your country. They are not after interest income, they are after the creation of one world for the reign of the anti-christ supported by evil minions around the world like pervert leaders and corrupt government officials who can be bought by fiat money. The advantage of these banks is that they can just print/create money out of thin air to bribe everybody.
rh bill is not exactly legalized abortion but it endorse contraceptives that has a side effects on itself and it may be affect the fertility of a baby in mother’s womb…so it was almost an abortion…right??maybe there are some ways to solve our problem in family planning but not in this way of bill.
contraceptives are safe and should be used only under the supervision of a doctor.
lol if the purpose of this bill is only as a choice, then there no need for a bill, coz FYI one a bill becomes a LAW, it is no longer a choice or voluntary in nature or whatsoever. If the gov’t wanted only to guide the parents for responsible parenthood, they can amend the family code…
as a citizen and a taxpayer, i won’t agree that the taxes i’m paying will be used to buy condoms or contraceptives…
If the issue here is to educate or to give other person a choice, then EDUCATION is the answer not CONDOMS OR CONTRACEPTIVES! coz LAW is NOT CHOICE! it is COMPULSORY..
and once this bill is passed, I am sure that i will go to jail coz i’m not giving my child money to buy for his condoms or contraceptives…
the bill clearly states that a violation of this is penalize of 1-6 mos. imprisonment..
If this RH bill will approved by the congress, senate and signed by the president for its effectiveness 15 days after the publication of the said bill, I guess PHILIPPINES is becoming a UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Why? Because we wanted to become liberated to think Filipinos are conservative. Therefore, we should maintain its sacredness. It’s the idea of every human being to know what is right and wrong. We should weigh things.
Miriam Defensor-Santiago is trying to come up with this bill maybe because to prevent the people from any immoral acts such as sex but the fact is there. And what the government should do is EDUCATE these individual ages 13 and up.
Put the budget for EDUCATION and not for CONDOMS.
This RH BILL is as pathetic and barbaric as the authors.
i think this is not the latest RH bill. There were a lot of amendments to this bill you should post that one.
posted here “consolidated reproductive health bill full text – House Bill RH 4244” –>
https://2010presidentiables.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/consolidated-reproductive-health-bill-full-text-house-bill-4244/
Did you think about this?
If this RH bill will approved:
1. Filipinos will be as sexually liberated as Americans/ Russians
2. A lot of BF’s/ GF’s will cheat on you not knowing that they made fun with other guys. ( They are not afraid, CONTRACEPTIVES is here to hide their secrets)
3. Abortion(Child Killing) will freely exist!
4. Poor people will be in prison.
There’s really too big of a leap in your analysis. Rebuttals:
1) Liberation (or even promiscuity) did not exist among Americans or Russians just because they had condoms. Neither did their liberalism come along with the condoms. They were liberal, and they have condoms and pills because they believe in Reproductive Health. What’s the point? Filipinos are NOT Americans or Russians. We are not as liberal as they are and having an bill on Reproductive health will not change that. If you think one bill could change a culture, prove the correlation first.
2) Same logic as in the first rebuttal. But more that that, you should realize that the bill offers a regulation on release of condoms and pills. For that matter, government will give it to COUPLES and FAMILIES. The kind of scenario you’re imagining will exist with or without RH bill.
3) THIS IS THE WORST. WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU GET THIS????? THERE IS NO PRO-ABORTION STANCE ON RH BILL, OK?
4) Poor people would be in prison for what? This policy is for the poor people to begin with. Health, including reproductive health, will now be made accesible to all.
This RH bill have very simple rationale..create a bill to create funds to corrupt…mark my word next issue would be plunder case due to over pricing contraceptives…..
Do not worry about, the population growth, the world is living maybe billions years ago, and nobody live that age, the world will never be over populated…consider about the calamities it can kill millions of people…so never think about over populated world.
I’M A NURSING STUDENT FROM BROKENSHIRE COLLEGE SOCSKSARGEN INC …………..I DONT REALLY AGREE FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION OF RH BILL FOR THE REASON THAT USING CONTRACEPTIVES LIKE PILLS CAN REALLY CAUSE PROBLEM, MORE ESPECIALLY TO ALL WOMEN. SO, IT SEEMS TO BE USELESS!
well.. please read
The elements of reproductive health care include:
1. Maternal, infant and child health and nutrition;
2. Promotion of breastfeeding;
3. Family planning information end services;
4. Prevention of abortion and management of post-abortion complications;
5. Adolescent and youth health;
SECTION 10.- CONTRACEPTIVES is just a portion of the whole bill..
READ SECTION 12.
includes.
a. Reproductive health and sexual rights;
b. Reproductive health care and services;
c. Attitudes, beliefs and values on sexual development, sexual behavior and sexual health;
d. Proscription and hazards of abortion and management of post-abortion complications;
e. Responsible parenthood.
f. Use and application of natural and modern family planning methods to promote reproductive health, achieve desired family size and prevent unwanted, unplanned and mistimed pregnancies;
g. Abstinence before marriage;
h. Prevention and treatment of HIV/AIDS and other, STIs/STDs, prostate cancer, breast cancer, cervical cancer and other gynecological disorders;
i. Responsible sexuality; and
j. Maternal, peri-natal and post-natal education, care and services.
READ,, AND UNDERSTAND
6. Prevention and management of reproductive tract infections (RTIs), HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmittable infections (STIs);
7. Elimination ofviolence against women;
8. Education and counseling on sexuality and sexual and reproductive health;
9. Treatment of breast and reproductive tract cancers and other gynecological conditions;
10. Male involvement and participation in reproductive health;,
11. Prevention and treatmentof infertility and sexual dysfunction; and
12. Reproductive health education for the youth.
You are ignorant!
BASHIN MO LAHAT NG PROVISIONS, PATI FINE PRINT. MAGANDA LANG YANG RH BILL SA UNANG TINGIN. PAG PINAG-ARALAN MO NA MGA REPERCUSSIONS. MARAMING MAKAKASAMA SA LIPUNAN NATIN..
DI KO NA ITUTURO SAYO KUNG ANU-ANO. MUKHA NAMANG MATALINO KA.
Pleae sift the good from the bad points.
may god bless you with wisdom
I AGREE THAT PHILIPPINES SHOULD PROMOTE AND IMPLEMENT THE REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH BILL BECAUSE IT HELPS THE GREAT DENSITY OF POPULATION IN THIS COUNTRY,I CAN SEE LOT’S OF WOMEN WHICH ARE POOR AND HAVE MANNY CHILDREN.FOR EXAMPLE A WOMAN WITH 9 CHILDREN HAS ONLY A MONTHLY SALARY OF 2,500 PESOS AND HIS HUSBAND HAD ONLY 7,000 SALARIE PER MONTH, SO HOW CAN THEY GIVE ENOUGH NEEDS FOR THEIR CHILDREN IF THEIR 9,500 SALARY IS ONLY ENOUGH FOR THE COMPLETE REQUIREMENT FOR THE NEEDS OF 1 CHILD,WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER CHILDREN!THE PROBLEM ABOUT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THAT THEY DON’T HAVE GOOD ETHICAL MANNER.CONSIDER THE ORIGINAL RELIGION OF GOD,JUDAISM LOOK AT THEM THEY EVEN PROMOTE ABORTION,LOOK AT CHINA WITH THEIR ONE CHILD POLICY AND HOW IT AFFECTED THEIR ECONOMIC BOOM. FOR YOUR INFORMATION CHINA HAVE THE GREATEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD BUT IN TERMS OF POPULATION DENSITY PER AREA, PHILIPPINES HAVE GREATER POPULATION DENSITY…..
THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURH SHOULD NOT INTERFERE WITH POLITICAL ISSUES BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST RUINING THE GOOD PLANS OF POLITICIANS IN THE COUNTRY,THE ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST ARE PAGANISMS OF SAINTS AND OTHER STATUES,I CONSIDER JUDAISM BE THE BEST RELIGION IN ETHICAL CONSIDERATIONS,RH BILL SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED ALONG WITH ABORTION AND DEATH SENTENCE TO CONTROL PEOPLE,BECAUSE IF YOU ONLY CONSIDER EVERYTHING IN THE LIFE OF A PERSON AS FREEDOM BECAUSE OF INDEPENDENCE THEN NOTHING GOOD WILL HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY
ALAM MO BA NA ANG MUSLIM SA PILIPINAS AY AT MOST 8 PERCENT NG POPULATION NG PILIPINAS? Pero bakit pinapayagan sila ng estado na pwede mag asawa ng marami (2,3, o 4). Bakit sila pinapayagan na A AREGLOHIN ANG PAG KAMATAY NG ISANG TAO, SA PAMAMAGITAN NG PAGBAYAD NG BLOOD MONEY? —- ang sagot ___ Religious freedom. NI-RE-RESPETO NATIN ANG KANILANG PANINIWALA, AT PANININDIGAN tungkol sa kanilang religion.
ANG CATHOLIC FAITH DIN, DAPAT IRESPETO NG GOBYERNO SA KANILANG PANINIWALA NA UKOL SA RELIGION
read the revised RH Bill here : “consolidated reproductive health bill full text – House Bill RH 4244″ –>
I agree that family planning be available to married couple, If everthis be imposed on schools would open mind of youth for safe sex,the thing that is detestable to the Lord, the means doesnt justfy the end, however,limit it on public awareness on seminars of POPCOM. It has been long time practised..why this need to be passed as bill, where we have many issues that must be taken care of our Congress…like Jobs, how to clean corruption in local, this election traditional “suhol” which every politicians and supporters know. NO one is caught…
It’s time we be practical. We’re not the only species living in this planet. So if we do not control our population now, how would the earth be able to sustain for the future generations? We do not have the earth for ourselves, you know. Those who are anti-rh bill are too selfish to understand the science of this issue. Be openminded. Rh Bill is sustains life.
using contraceptives are not form of killing life, because many explains that life stars when the couples are having sex(ejaculation phase)——
RH bill is technically misleading….. there are some methodology which are vaguely defined..its. too confusing and its quiet frightening to us who are naturally born and raised as Catholics ,practicing Christian doctrines..
We appreciate very much the consideration of one of Catholic’s core values stated and defined in section 2, “RESPECT FOR LIFE” ONE WAY TO DO IT IS TO ALLOW IT..Any act even how small it is that shows/ express control of life is disrespecting it..
The thing about sexual Education is a very sensitive issue and shouldn’t need to be imposed as one of the subject in grade 5 up to 4th year… This RH issue can be covered effectively in a 1wk or a mo. seminar.. and not as a yearlong education as described in section 12..Natural Law would attest that when the child matures emotionally, physically, socially, mentally..he/she will eventually learn all the essential/significant things regarding RH and that is when the child reaches the appropriate age that is 18 above…The child’s PERSONAL CONVICTION ABOUT HEALTH, SEXUALITY, RESPONSIBILITY,CAREER has achieved a SENSE OF BALANCE AND IS EXPECTED TO BE FULLY DEVELOPED.By that time,his curiosity, inquisitiveness, and many unanswered question from schools and universities, communities or family can definitely be satisfied by his own resourcefulness and knowledge and through her personal experiences..Whereas, when this sex education are brought down to children as early as grade five even how much well trained our health care teachers would be,we can’t assure that our kids will be responsible for that early .
there was an infanticide case here in zambonorte that a mother killed her own baby after giving birth, she delivered the baby on her own alone, she had 3 kids the last one would be the fourth one, she has no job and she has no husband, her husband was murdered, the incident was discovered when her eldest son saw her mother choking the neck of the newborn baby and after which he talked to the neighboring residents, the residents informed the government officials, the incident was investigated by the authorities. do you think the rh bill could have prevented this thing to happen?
nabasa ko ang bill… wala namang sinabing ilelegalize ang babaeng ayaw magbuntis (magpapa-abort)… marami pong type ng abortion… at tingin ko… just ang bill na ito. Maawa kayo sa mga babae…
m. pacquiao proudly spoke of hi family being poor and yet he and his siblings grew up by striving hard…. those were the days manny… when manila did not have the swelling population of informal settlers; when abuses on women were uncommon; when the environment was clean and pleasant. today, we have to face realities – the Filipino population has swarmed to unprecedented numbers; jobs have become wanting and food becomes limited to many families…The Rh bill is not a solution to poverty and underdevelopment… true but we have to admit that it is one bold step towards addressing the ills of Filipino Society. It is crazy for some sectors to think that its approval means contraceptives selling like street food; abortion clinics every corner of the street and 2-child policy…. It is responsible parenthood and personhood..
How can it promote responsible parenthood when you give away contraceptives, which will be purchased using from taxes of the people.
HINDI BA NAKAKAHIYA IYON NA IBA ANG GAGASTOS NG COMDOM, PILLS ,etc para sa pagtatalik ng isang magka partner? ano responsible doon?
dapat kung gusto mo mag condom , mag-condom ka pero ikaw bumili galing sa pera na pinaghirapan mo. hindi galing sa pera ng ibang taO. DELIKADEZA LANG YUN, AT SELF RESPECT
“responsible” also means do not have more children if you do not have the means to give them a decent life, education and health.
bughaw
Kung gusto mong maging responsible, maging responsible ka. Bumili ka ng sarili mong contraceptive. Huwag mo na ipapakarga sa taong bayan ang hilig mo sa sex.
Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion of a fetus or embryo from the uterus, resulting in or caused by its death… RH bill is not about abortion..katherine malvar..
it may not be good for anti-rh but i think the bill promises a lot of goodness..too good for women that even prostitutes (no offense) will rejoice that it may be easy for them since they got pregnant, ooppss they’ve lost the baby, whether intentional or unintentional and they acquire complications, and thus they exercise their right for health assistance, it’s questionable..
how can you say its abortion..there is no fetus yet..contraceptive pills are pills to control the formation or the union of egg cell and sperm cell..so there is no abortion that takes place on this matter.. dont be ignorant..how many filipinos are now HIV positive because they dont know how to protect themselves..isnt it alarming that our population is getting bigger..why dont we control population in order the government can support its people..can you imagine filipinos living in the street bcos of lack of home and no food to eat bcos job is scarce in our country…look at norway they are rich country the government support its people bcos they controlled their population so they can provide everything ..from giving birth up to college education of the children plus they are given monthly allowance by their govenment..maybe its high time that we need to change our attitude, having 5 to 10 children even tho we cant afford to give good food and education to the children and good home living atmosphere ..im supporting the RH bill
As stated in SEC. 2. Declaration of Policy. – The State upholds and promotes responsible parenthood, informed choice, birth spacing and respect for life in conformity with internationally recognized human rights standards.
I don’t see anything wrong with this unless the government shoves us or forces the couple in using contraceptives. It even says there that “The State shall uphold the right of the people”
If this RH Bill is mainly used as information dissemination, WELL & GOOD! But if this Bill is just another BS or COVER UP just to use tax payer’s money for more corruption purposes & more red tape like the Certificate of Compliance (although it says there that this is supposedly issued for free) then that’s VERY BAD for us POOR Filipinos.
Why don’t the government just concentrate & prioritize more on severe problems of this country?
Whether you inform people of birth control, IT IS STILL THE COUPLE’S CHOICE.
Are they saying that due to over population people were ignorant? Maybe, but what do you think is the better solution for that? RH BIll or BETTER EDUCATION?
excuse lang po. can someone share any existing laws we have that relates to reproductive health? siguro naman meron kasi we already had lots of family planning programs in the past.
no existing laws.
not going too deep with this topic, .
“its just an excuse, for people who could not accept the consequences of their actions.”
hindi naman talaga ito ang solution sa problema natin…
gaya rin ng anumang administrasyon, MALING PAMAMALAKAD kahit na ma approve pa ang bill na ito pag wala namang TAMANG ATTITUDE wala rin, its just a cover story.
yung ibang sections naman nito andun rin sa constitution natin,. 1987 pa yun ah.! ano na ngayon?
you are absolutely correct…. that’s why we don’t need this RH bill as simple as that…
How old is our planet that I have never heard of overpopulation? There are ample resources at our disposal. Our lands are so vast. Sad to know, large land areas are either idle or owned by the rich (used as ranches, resorts, golf courses and more). (http://www.henrygeorge.org/popsup.htm) So, if overpopulation is strange to facts, how would the RH Bill help lessen poverty? We have street children, child labor, young couples, unemployed and hopeless in our country. But overpopulation had never been the cause of these things. It would be an “EPIC” if you would tell me that rich countries like USA, Japan and England became progressive because of family planning, birth control, sex education and any ideas the RH Bill has to offer. A HUGE NO. What these countries have, are more job opportunities and better literacy rate. Weren’t these the reason why most of our kababayans go abroad? Tell me, if the provinces in our country have more decent job opportunities and better literacy rate, would most of us go to Manila? No. This is the reason why we see street children, squatters, cheats, prostitutes and more in Manila area: many of us thought that there are more job opportunities here. They ended up having none. Many of them can’t go back because; they’re gambling their chances, less budget, cheated, lost and hopeless. They stayed. And they increased Manila’s population, rate of unemployed and the poor. If many of us say: kung sino pa ang walang trabaho, sila pa yung anak ng anak, that is right. But do we know why? Most of them were unemployed or even employed but with lesser salary and working time. They have more time for their families, more time to be affectionate and specially more time for couples to make “labing-labing.” 😛 They end up having more children. While the rich are so busy on their jobs. They got lesser time for their families. They end up having lesser number of children. I hope you see the pattern. There are so many policies and bills passed by the Senate that supports better employment and literacy rate but as of now, they have not materialized on most parts of the country. And now RH Bill? How would you implement sex education on the entire country when most remote areas had bare or no access to education? There are already Bills on Rights of Women, Rights of Children, Education, Employment. These things need to materialize. We don’t need unnecessary Bills that would add to the list. Our first priority is better employment and literacy rate. The Government should focus on these areas and not wasting time debating about RH Bill. Its a total waste of time, effort and money.
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So, it is the FREE DISTRIBUTION AND PROMOTION OF MODERN METHODS OF CONTRACEPTION you like. Notwithstanding the issues against this RH bill.
What will you gain from it?
“
Age-appropriate Reproductive Health and Sexuality Education shall be integrated in all relevant subjects…”
sus, dami naman pabor sa RH Bill. unahin na muna iba hindi pa nga natapos yung problema sa AFP corruption nag RH bill na kayo.
bakit ang daming street children ngayon? saan ang ahensya nang gobyerno na tinahasan para ampunin o alagaan yang mga street children na yan?diba may batas yan? bakit hindi nasunod.
hindi nga kaya nang gobyerno natin ang simpleng batas ito pa kayang RH bill na malaki.
unahin muna ang problema sa corruption at edukasyon saka na yang RH bill na yan.
if we can’t support the RH bill because we see a lot of gray areas on it, why don’t we suggest solutions to the governement, those we think can help resolve our country’s problems.. if the objective is to counter the over-population, and RH bill is not the solution, then let the government know what your idea is so we can help them formulate another bill. wag yung kontra ng kontra tapos wala naman maibigay na ibang solusyon =)
ok. you start. we are behind you.
If we have to examine our conscience deeply, we actually do not need this bill. For population control issues has already been taken cared of during the past administration most particularly during the Marcos regime. The only thing is it is not effective. What we really need is a LAW that will govern our MORAL values, for example, nobody should be allowed to get pregnant if not married as practiced in the Middle East and nobody should be allowed to live together outside the clause of MARRIAGE.
I agree what prolife said.
TO THE PEOPLE OF THE PHILIPPINES:
HAVE YOU BEEN WONDERING WHY THERE IS A VERY AGGRESSIVE PROMOTION OF THE RH BILL?… READ ON
What’s New
Philippines adopts US designed family-planning promotion plan
02 September 2010
United States Agency for International Development designed a new family planning promotion strategy being implemented by the Philippines government. The May Plano Ako programme has been conceptualised in line with the MDGs on population control and reproductive health and aims not only at women but also men and youth.
The government has started implementing a new family planning marketing strategy designed by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID).
The “May Plano Ako” program, conceptualized by the USAID’s Health Promotion and Communication Project, or HealthPRO, is in line with the country’s Millennium Development Goals, or MDGs, especially those on population control and reproductive health.
May Plano Ako “targets not only women but also men and young people” on the importance of family planning and contraceptive use, according to a top official of the Department of Health (DoH).
Unlike previous family planning initiatives of the DoH, which were “sporadic and small-scale,” the new program will be “unified, national and comprehensive,” according to USAID and DoH program materials furnished the Inquirer.
The US Embassy in Manila has acknowledged Washington’s active role in the Philippine government’s family planning initiatives.
In a text message, Wossie Mazengia, the US Embassy deputy spokesperson, told the Inquirer that the USAID “continues to work in partnership with the DoH, local governments and the private sector to increase access to and improve the quality of basic health services, including family planning.”
Training of nurses
HealthPRO and the DoH-attached National Center for Health Promotion (NCHP) have so far trained 607 nurses and midwives and 2,217 barangay (village) health workers in 11 pilot provinces on “interpersonal communication and counseling on family planning, and maternal and child health.”
The provinces are Bulacan, Negros Oriental, Negros Occidental, Sarangani, South Cotabato, Zamboanga del Sur, Compostela Valley, Albay, Pangasinan, Capiz and Davao del Sur.
HealthPRO and NCHP are set to train another 700 health service providers and 3,000 barangay health workers in 12 other provinces: Cagayan, Isabela, Tarlac, Nueva Ecija, Aklan, Bohol, Bukidnon, Misamis Oriental, Misamis Occidental, Agusan del Norte, Zamboanga del Norte and Zamboanga Sibugay.
The two groups plan to use “strategic communication to enhance family planning and maintain behavior change among targeted market segments in the Philippines.”
May Plano Ako, finalized in June, has the “full support” of Health Secretary Enrique Ona, said Dr. Ivanhoe Escartin, NCHP head.
Ona is scheduled to lead the launching of the program on Aug. 31 in Legazpi City while Undersecretary David Lozada and Assistant Secretary Nemesio Gaco are expected to grace similar activities in San Fernando, La Union, and Bacolod City, respectively.
Communication strategy
In a 37-page report, titled “Family Planning Behavior Change Communication Strategy,” the NCHP said: “The strategy builds on the understanding that encouraging individuals or couples to use family planning is a process, involving distinct audiences that need different messages and approaches.”
“Information alone is not enough to bring about behavior change among any audience. Instead, the strategy is based on a multilevel, synchronized and holistic marketing approach to family planning.”
The same report said “the approach is unique in that it focuses on increasing modern contraceptive use through demand generation, or increasing knowledge and forming positive attitudes toward contraceptive use and birth spacing; social marketing, or repackaging or selling the concept of family planning as a lifestyle that contributes to better quality of life; and service marketing, or building capacity of family-planning service providers and promoting model providers.”
Lost opportunities
The report also noted that previous family planning approaches of the DoH had “resulted in lost opportunities to involve men and young people and address values that may actually drive contraceptive use.”
Citing data from the National Demographic and Health Survey and the Commission on Population, among others, the NCHP said that:
Many poor Filipino women are having more children than they want.
“Currently, the total number of children a Filipino woman has during her reproductive years is one child higher than the desired number, or 3.3 vs. 2.4. For the poorest women, it is two children (5.2) higher than the desired number.”
A large proportion of married women, especially those with more than two children want no more kids, yet contraceptive use is low.
“More than half (54 percent) of married women in the Philippines want no more children. The proportion of women who no longer want additional children increases with the number of living children.”
“However, contraceptive use is low and has remained fairly stagnant over the last five years. Only one out of three married women is using a family planning method and only one out of three is using a modern method.”
Unmet need
Adolescents, those aged 15 to 19, have the “highest unmet need for family planning.”
The DoH defines “unmet need” as “the percentage of married women who either want to stop having children or want to wait for their next birth but are not using any family planning method.”
More than one in five pregnancies in the country are either mistimed or unwanted.
Worse, “many women obtain an abortion when they discover an unplanned pregnancy.”
“About one in five pregnancies in the Philippines end up in illegal abortions, mostly in unsafe conditions that can lead to maternal deaths.”
In a May Plano Ako briefing paper, HealthPRO said “many Filipinos believe having a plan is good for their families.”
“They not only want their government to help them plan their families. They also have to get the information and services they need to help them plan their families,” HealthPRO also said.
Aside from HealthPRO, USAID’s other health-related projects in the country include SHIELD, short for Sustainable Health Improvement Through Empowerment and Local Development; Health Policy Development Program (HPDP); Private Sector Mobilization for Family Health (PRISM); and Strengthening Local Governance for Health (HealthGov).
These projects are part of the US government’s “Country Assistance Strategy for the Philippines” from 2009 to 2013.
P4.46B in USAID projects
Last year, the USAID allocated $96.04 million (about P4.46 billion) to its projects in the Philippines.
Nearly $27 million (about P1.25 billion) of the budget was spent on health-related projects like the drive against HIV-AIDS, tuberculosis and other infectious diseases.
In June, then Health Secretary Esperanza Cabral cited the USAID as a DoH partner in the state’s family planning campaign.
Earlier in an interview, Cabral told the Inquirer that the government’s family planning program had “not been as successful as we want it to be.”
“Even as population growth is coming down, it is not coming down at the rate necessary to improve the country’s socioeconomic status,” she said.
Target growth rate
Cabral said the state needed to “bring it down (from 2.04 percent in 2008) to a level of 1.3 to 1.4 percent per annum where the population will stabilize.”
In a report on the Philippines, the UN Millennium Campaign (on the MDGs) said “the country’s high population growth is diluting the gains of economic growth.”
“The larger the population a country has, the greater will be the pressure on basic social services and on natural resources,” it said.
Here, “more than one million babies are born every year. They will be needing resources in the future, such as health care, schooling, food, clothing and later on, employment. Even today, these needs are not being met,” the report added.
Source: Asian Journal
Even without this rh bill. every one is free to choose his way of contraception. GUSTO MO MAG PILLS- YOU ARE FREE TO DO IT. GUSTO MO MAG CONDOM – YOU ARE FREE TO DO IT NOW. You want ligation or vasectomy or iud– nobody is stopping you from getting access to it.
What this bill does is to make it mandatory by means of brainwashing our children (by means of mandatory attendance in sex education classes). So that when they are of reproductive age, the children will find it ACCEPTABLE or EVEN THE EASIER CHOICE, to get contraceptives rather than to EXERCISE SELF CONTROL.
This bill not only makes it alright for teens to engage in promiscuity. It promotes it by making it alright so long as you have protection or contraceptives.
This Rh bill should be restricted to a rating of PG (parental guidance) or R (restricted) or even For Adults only.. This Rh bill makes it mandatory for children to attend sex education classes (without parental guidance)
Ano ba naman ang gusto ng proponents nitong Rh bill na gawin sa bansa natin?
Poverty is caused by lack of drive of people to succeed, lack of faith in God, and by greed/corruption of people. Sometimes by sheer stupidity and laziness.
The solution for poverty is not immorality. Spending of millions of pesos (tax payers money) to give away contraceptives to people, to me seems to be the wrong approach.
KAILAN BA NAGING ESSENTIAL MEDICINES ANG CONTRACEPTIVES? That we the taxpayers should be obligated to purchase with our taxes. Hypertension medicines, anti tuberculosis medicines, vaccines, antibiotics etc.. yun ang essential medicines. Alam mo ba kung ilan ang namamatay dahil walang pambili ng anti-hypertension medicines? dengue? etc.
HOW CAN IT PROMOTE RESPONSIBLE PARENTHOOD when you give away contraceptives, which will be purchased from taxes of the people.
HINDI BA NAKAKAHIYA IYON NA IBA ANG GAGASTOS NG CONDOM, PILLS etc para sa pagtatalik ng isang magka partner? Ano responsible doon? Dapat kung gusto mo mag condom, mag-condom ka pero ikaw bumili galing sa pera na pinaghirapan mo. Hindi galing sa pera ng ibang tao. DELIKADEZA LANG YUN, AT SELF RESPECT.
And we are not talking only of a few pesos per condom, we are talking of hundreds of millions of pesos.
THE GOVERNMENT MUST BE MORE CIRCUMSPECT IN SPENDING PEOPLE’S MONEY. Contraception is a private matter. The rh bill should promote individual responsibility.
THIS IS HOW THEY WANT TO BRAINWASH OUR CHILDREN.. THEY WILL BE USING THE EDUCATONAL SYSTEM ( MANDATORY SEX EDUCATION ) TO MAKE CONTRACEPTION ACCEPTABLE TO YOUNG CHILDREN. SO THAT WHEN THEY GROW OLDER, THE CONTRACEPTIVE INDUSTRY WILL HAVE A MARKET FOR THEIR PRODUCTS.
our children is not a market.. they are our future. if we allow the pro-rh to corrupt their minds now, what will happen to the philippines?
What this rh bill wants is for our nation to have a culture of contraception. DO YOU WANT FOR OUR PEOPLE TO HAVE THIS CULTURE OF CONTRACEPTION?
In Psychology and training, if you are promoting an idea, and you use mandatory education to propagate it, in layman terms, we call it BRAINWASHING. Brainwashing is the application of techniques that tend to persuade or coerce to implant ideas into the subjects. To affect a persons thought patterns and subsequent behavior (wether you realize it or not).
“Age-appropriate Reproductive Health and Sexuality Education shall be integrated in all relevant subjects…”
If YOU PUT SEX EDUCATION INTO TEXT BOOKS, AND THE CHILDREN ARE TASKED TO STUDY THESE TEXTBOOKS , THEN THIS IS MANDATORY. THE RH BILL WANTS PARENTS TO OPT OUT OF THIS MANDATORY LESSONS. BUT HOW MANY PARENTS WILL EVEN BE AWARE OF THESE LESSONS? REMEMBER THE LESSONS WILL BE FROM GRADE 5 TO 4TH YEAR HIGH SCHOOL. THIS OPT OUT IS DECEPTIVE.. WHAT THEY SHOULD PUT IN THERE IS OPT IN.. MEANING IF YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO ATTEND SEX EDUCATION CLASSES THEN YOU CAN OPT IN.. THE WAY TO OPTING OUT IS DECEPTIVE AND IS NOT REASONABLE
let the children get older so they may decide for themselves what they want to learn… to do. Education is not evil. It is alright , but if this rh bill gets passed into law. It will not be a choice anymore.
If the children are too young to decide, then it is us parents who must protect them by by being wise.
It is the parents who have primary responsibility in the moral upbringing of his child. If the government through its laws unreasonably interferes with it, then the law is inherently wrong.
There are good points in this bill. But if you include those that intrude on parental authority, and religious freedom and also considering the manner by which this law is to be implemented, maraming bad points itong rh bill. It is not a good law.
Alam mo ba na ang population ng mga muslim sa pilipinas is just a fraction of the entire population of the country? Pero mayroon silang special privileges. for example, pwede sila mag-asawa ng madami, maron silang principle na ‘blood money’, etc..
You know why? Because of ‘FREEDOM OF RELIGION’. We respect their right to their beliefs. Maski na it is contrary to ours.
MAYROON TAYONG FREEDOM DITO sa PILIPINAS. We should guard against any form of laws that will diminish our freedoms.
Alam mo, this bill does not increase any of your freedoms that you now already enjoy. You already have this freedom to choose, what ever you like. You most certainly know what is there to know about family planning, sexuality, social dynamics, if you only inform yourself about it.
This bill will not increase your knowledge or your freedom. THIS BILL WILL NOT MAKE OUR COUNTRY PROSPER.
Very well said po ZATHO! 🙂
God is pro-life. No other explanations. I just want to obey. I may not win the debate between pro and anti but I know on where side God wants us to be.
to obey is your choice. let the others make their own choices. do not dictate on others.
IT IS THIS PROPONENTS OF THE RH BILL WHO WANT PEOPLE TO BE SUBJECTED TO BILLS PROVISIONS. WE DON’T WANT THE RH BILL.
amen. basta tayo pro God. pro-life
Amen. It is written “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil”.
For the record, Philippines is the ONLY Catholic country in the world where the likes of RH Bill and Divorce Bill is not yet a law. That is the very reason why Gods enemy hates this very Catholic country and wants to devour its people as he is successful in almost every part of the world.
Our Blessed Mother Mary said to some visionaries, “The Triumph of My Immaculate Heart will begin in the Philippines”.
The Catholic Church is already persecuted in every parts of the world specially in the West: many faithful have gone and do not believe anymore, some of those who were entrusted to protect their flock had also gone astray . In this country, the persecution?… its now work in progress thru the different propaganda of different sectors of the society and government.
As Jesus Christ have said “My Bride must suffer (My Church). She must suffer to be purified, and suffer to be glorified. She must appear to be destroyed as evil sought to destroy me as I walked upon the Earth preaching the Good News of the salvation of mankind. My Church will be persecuted to a degree never seen before as evil has reached a height that has never before been seen on Earth. She shall suffer and be persecuted. She has been judged already in this scourging soon to carry the great cross to Her Calvary where she shall be crucified, tormented and mocked, and believed to have died and been destroyed”
GOD BLESS US ALL!!!
IF you read the bill more clearly and without a bias you could see the advantage of it. This bill is not a pro abortion bill. Still abortion is against the law. If this bill would be a LAW , still its to those persons involve to choose from the options given by the church or given by the bill. I don’t see anything wrong with this, still we are in a democratic country we have the freedom to choose. A lot of us would benefit to it. There is a section in this bill which concerns will the MATERNAL DEATH, a lot of mothers die with medical malpractice and the bill is giving more emphasis to it. Not only that, POST ABORTION COMPLICATIONS for those people suffering from the consequences of abortion, treating them with respect and counseling. EARLY PREGNANCY, most especially to those victims of rape, losing their self-esteem, treating them without respect by their peers are one of their greatest suffering. PROPER EDUCATION, as early as they could understand pro-creation they must learn that it is not an experiment of curiosity and people with spouses must also understand that in doing so they must be responsible enough to give the needs of their children that they are properly dressed and taken cared of (education,food,shelter etc,.) . RIGHT????
Hello nellad.
Yes it is true that we should read the rh bill as a whole and without bias
CAN NOT OUR LAW MAKERS SEPARATE THE ISSUES SO THAT PEOPLE CAN DECIDE WHICH PART OF THE LAW THEY WANT OR NOT?
1. Maternal health care and infant care?
Anti rh bill is also pro maternal care. We also want better health benefits for our people. It is the duty of government to provide it.
2. Mandatory sex education or family planning education?
In the 1980’s there have also been programs in family planning. As a grade 5 pupil, I attended these lessons. It was in the curriculum. And I think it is alright. It is not wrong teach children this basic information.
But, if you promote artificial contraception in the context of mandatory sex education, you will be subjecting children to an ENFORCED values education; to change their beliefs, and behavior. (This is an avowed goal of this rh bill).
Ultimately, the goal of this mandatory sex education is to make contraception acceptable to our children. Think of it. It is BRAINWASHING. And with children, it does not have to be violent to for it to be brainwashing. It just has to be manipulative. It is a form of child abuse. It is highly unethical.
Do you want our children to grow up in a culture of contraception? Let our schools teach our children good manners and right conduct, instead of contraception.
Let our children grow up having the freedom to choose what they want to learn or do. Let the parents teach their children about values, about morality. Is this not freedom of religion? IS THIS NOT WHAT PRO-CHOICE MEAN? Are these not the right of the Filipino people?
3. Contraception as essential medicines?
Maraming Pilipinong may sakit, nagugutom. CONTRACEPTIVES ba and dapat ibibgay mo sa kanila? Sa maliliit na bata na nanglilimos dahil walang makain. Hindi makapasok sa iskwela dahil walang baon, walang makain, walang damit. PILLs ang ibibigay mo??
Magpunta ka sa mga ospital, makikita mo kung gaano karami ang walang pambili ng gamot. Ang dami daming kababayan natin na namamatay dahil walang pambili ng anti-hypertension medicine. Is this not the real ESSENTIAL MEDICINES?
4. Responsible parenthood?
BIGYAN NATIN NG TRABAHO mga magulang, para may pambili ng pagkain at gamot ng pamilya nila.
Pag may trabaho na sila, mag-kakaroon na sila ng pambili ng contraceptive kung gusto nila. Pag ibinigay mo condom, pills, at ibang contaceptive, tinuturuan mo lang silang maging iresponsable.
TAKE OUT the unethical provisions, and the rh bill will be a good bill.
LET US DEMAND FROM OUR GOVERNMENT more funds for livelihood education instead. It is one way of making our people more responsible. Give them the opportunity for work. Alam mo ba, that the budget for TESDA was cut? …
people need to think sex education means promotion of contraceptives. it is not. there are a lot more topics under sex education and most of it has nothing to do with contraceptives. the bill states age-appropriate sex education will be done, that means if the age of the children are not into sex, then contraceptives will not be tackled.
you are imagining too many ghosts.
bughaw or wawam, whatever your name is:
I think your missing the point.. as early as 35 years ago, there have already been lessons in bodily functions(biology) physical education, family planning, iud’s, condoms, pill and natural family planning methods in public schools which I attended. In my grade school as early as grade five, we have been taught about these things. There have been subjects also in good manners and right conduct… I think these lessons are ok. (ALL THESE EVEN WITHOUT ThE RH BILL). Then you might be wondering why I am against this rh bill. Actually I am only against certain provisions which ARE REPUGNANT, ridiculous and those that infringe on the right of parents to educate their children, especially those that touch on moral upbringing principles. This rh bill not only promotes education. IT PROMOTES THE USE OF CONTRACEPTION. And they intend to use the mandatory sex education to promote contraception to bring about change in values, beliefs and behavior. If you read the consolidated version of this rh bill, it is not difficult to see. If you listened to edsel lagman’s sponsorship speech you would have heard.
Do not be a propagandist for the pro rh bill. Try to do something good for our country
Hello nellad.
Yes it is true that we should read the rh bill as a whole and without bias
CAN NOT OUR LAW MAKERS SEPARATE THE ISSUES SO THAT PEOPLE CAN DECIDE WHICH PART OF THE LAW THEY WANT OR NOT?
1. Maternal health care and infant care?
Anti rh bill is also pro maternal care. We also want better health benefits for our people. It is the duty of government to provide it.
2. Mandatory sex education or family planning education?
In the 1980’s there have also been programs in family planning. As a grade 5 pupil, I attended these lessons. It was in the curriculum. And I think it is alright. It is not wrong teach children this basic information.
But, if you promote artificial contraception in the context of mandatory sex education, you will be subjecting children to an ENFORCED values education; to change their beliefs, and behavior. (This is an avowed goal of this rh bill).
Ultimately, the goal of this mandatory sex education is to make contraception acceptable to our children. Think of it. It is BRAINWASHING. And with children, it does not have to be violent to for it to be brainwashing. It just has to be manipulative. It is a form of child abuse. It is highly unethical.
Do you want our children to grow up in a culture of contraception? Let our schools teach our children good manners and right conduct, instead of contraception.
Let our children grow up having the freedom to choose what they want to learn or do. Let the parents teach their children about values, about morality. Is this not freedom of religion? IS THIS NOT WHAT PRO-CHOICE MEAN? Are these not the right of the Filipino people?
3. Contraception as essential medicines?
Maraming Pilipinong may sakit, nagugutom. CONTRACEPTIVES ba and dapat ibibgay mo sa kanila? Sa maliliit na bata na nanglilimos dahil walang makain. Hindi makapasok sa iskwela dahil walang baon, walang makain, walang damit. PILLs ang ibibigay mo??
Magpunta ka sa mga ospital, makikita mo kung gaano karami ang walang pambili ng gamot. Ang dami daming kababayan natin na namamatay dahil walang pambili ng anti-hypertension medicine. Is this not the real ESSENTIAL MEDICINES?
4. Responsible parenthood
BIGYAN NATIN NG TRABAHO ang mga magulang, para may pambili ng pagkain at gamot ng pamilya nila.
Pag may trabaho na sila, mag-kakaroon na sila ng pambili ng contraceptive kung gusto nila. Pag ibinigay mo condom, pills, at ibang contaceptive, tinuturuan mo lang silang maging iresponsable.
LET US DEMAND FROM OUR GOVERNMENT more funds for livelihood education instead. It is one way of making our people more responsible. Give them the opportunity for work. Alam mo ba, that the budget for TESDA was cut? …
TAKE OUT the unethical provisions, and the rh bill will be a good bill.
Yeah correct. Our lawmakers are so stupid shit focusing on the bill that is not really a solution to our poverty stricken nation. Like the others here specifically Nellad, so stupid! There could be behind the scene why they are promoting this bill rather than making livelihood program, produce more opportunity, support the intellectuals that can help our country grows. Bullshit to our government!
You too are ignorant and fool! You really don’t know the behind the scene of RH Bill.
New World Order.
too much conspiracy theories. stop believing in ghosts.
bugaw or wawam,
you can change your name like a mutant… but still your color shows.
you are running out of legitimate issues.. hahahaha
ANSWER THE ISSUES…
DON’T JUST MAKE PROPAGANDA FOR THE PRO RH BILL!!
it will be difficult to solve poverty if the family size of the poor keep growing.
BUGAW,
PROPAGANDA !!
you just make comments without substance… CLASSIC PROPAGANDA.
WHY ARE YOU EVEN MAKING A CASE AGAINST THE POOR?
WHY NOT YOUR FAMILY SIZE? ISN’T YOUR FAMILY SIZE MAKING IT HARD TO SOLVE POVERTY?
CLASSIC PROPAGANDA !! you make a comment without substance.. PROVE IT
Whys is it not your ‘family size’ that’s making it difficult to solve poverty? Why not the ‘family size’ of the rich? with multiple families?
Why are you even making a case against the poor?
the rich have much fewer children than the poor. that is also a fact. all of us know these things.
bughaw,
So? Ano relevance nito sa rh bill?
Why do you keep making remarks which are without PROOF, RELEVANCE AND REFERENCES?
Please try to keep an open mind. We Should not be over-zealous in our desire to promote one side. Making propaganda for the rh bill just for the sake of it, is not reasonable.
You must admit the Anti-rh bill has valid points, that would benefit our country. Hindi ba? Think about it..
Have a nice day,
We are abundant of the freedom of choice here in the Philippines. Artificial contraceptives are already found over the counter. RH Bill is not really about freedom of choice. It is not about the the legalization of artificial contraceptives in the country – they are already currently legal. RH bill is about using the hard-earned money of the people to spend on buying medical supplies, that including condoms, IUDs, pills and other artificial contraceptives for distribution to the poor.
But does it mean that since artificial contraceptives are 100% legal, they are already 100% safe. Will these condoms and IUDs help poor people become rich. And will the officials become very faithful in handling the RH fund?
All of these things are already legal in the Philippines (except abortion), why legalize it more? Something does not compute. The so called “Pro-choice” protecting women’s rights overlooks the choice of the unborn-which again brings the debate on the time when life begins.
6. Prevention and management of reproductive tract infections (RTIs), HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmittable infections (STIs); INFECTIONS IS THE CONSEQUENCE WHEN ACT WAS ILLEGALY DONE OUTSIDE THE BOND OF MARRIAGE, OR IF A PERSON IS NOT MARRIED AND ENGAGED IN PRE-MARITAL SEX, STILL THE ACT IN ITSELF IS ILLEGAL. BECAUSE I BELIEVED IF RELATIONSHIP IS EXCLUSIVELY DONE WITHIN THE BOND OF MARRIAGE, SICKNESS AND OTHER TRANSMITTED DISEASE IS OUT OF THE PICTURE.
I AGREE!!!!
Birth Control” Pills cause early Abortions
By J.T. Finn (updated April 23, 2005)
Physicians across America — and around the world — are now confirming that the Pill, IUDs, Depo-Provera and Norplant cause early abortions.
First, a look at the Pill. Research shows that in many cases the Pill causes early abortions — abortions the mother may not even know she’s having. You may find this shocking, but the facts are clear after reading Randy Alcorn’s book, titled;
“Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions?”
Here’s what 11 physicians and medical professionals are saying about the book Randy Alcorn published in 1998:
1. “From medical textbooks and pharmacy references, to statements from the Pill-manufacturers themselves, this book proves, beyond any doubt, the abortion-causing action of birth control pills. This book should be read by everyone interested in knowing the truth.”
~ Paul L. Hayes, M.D., Board Certified Fellow of the American College of Obstetricians/Gynecologists
2. “Does the birth control pill cause abortions? Using research results from medical literature, Randy Alcorn has convincingly shown that the answer is `yes.’ He has, with care and compassion, given us the truth. The question for us as Christians is how we will respond now that we know.”
~ Linda Martin, M.D., Pediatrician
3. “By carefully detailing the available medical information concerning the abortifacient effects of oral contraceptives, Randy Alcorn has developed a logical and thoughtful challenge to every prolife person. The conclusions of this study are scientifically accurate. Birth control pills usually prevent pregnancy, but sometimes they cause an abortion. Questions? Objections? Randy has addressed them in a gentle but firm way. This is the manner in which the often fiery debate over prolife subjects should be carried out- unemotionally, intelligently and quietly. The evidence is before us . . . `How should we then live?'”
~ Patrick D. Walker, M.D., Professor of Pathology, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
4. “In this challenging book Randy Alcorn has the honesty to face a tough and uncomfortable question. This compelling evidence will make you rethink the question of birth control pills.”
~ John Brose, M.D., Surgeon
5. “In this impeccably researched book, Randy Alcorn takes an unblinking look at what medical experts know about how birth control pills work. I painfully agree that birth control pills do in fact cause abortions. Our individual and collective Christian response to this heretofore varnished-over information will have profound consequences for time and eternity. This is a disturbing must-read for all who profess to be prolife.”
~ Beverly A. McMillan, M.D., Ob/Gyn
6. “Randy Alcorn has done exceptional work. The facts in this book parallel much of my own research. I am delighted he would undertake such a work when others seek to avoid the subject. This book is a must for Christians, particularly those in medicine and Christian ministries.”
~ Karen D. Garnett, R.N.
7. “No prolife physician can rightly prescribe BCPs [birth control pills] after reviewing this data. I have started circulating this information.”
~ Randall Martin, M.D., Chairman, Department of Anesthesiology, Columbia Willamette Valley Medical Center
8. “Scientific papers suggest that escape ovulation occurs 4-15% of all cycles in patients taking birth control pills. Thus, as this booklet points out, early chemical abortions are a real and significant concern.”
~ Paddy Jim Baggot, M.D., Ob/Gyn, Fellow of the American College of Medical Genetics
9. “Randy Alcorn has thoroughly studied and written on an area where little published scientific information exists. His responses to this issue, and his outstanding appendices, are must reading.”
~ William M. Petty, M.D., Surgeon, Gynecologic Oncology
10. “Randy Alcorn has once again demonstrated his tenacity and integrity in pursuing the truth. He has exposed the abortifacient properties of so-called birth control agents. This booklet should be required reading for all discerning Christians who wish to fully live out their faith.”
~ William L. Toffler, M.D., Professor of Family Medicine,
Oregon Health Sciences University
11. “I endorse Randy Alcorn’s book with gusto. He has answered the title question with the care and compassion of a pastor, having searched out the facts with the diligence of an experienced researcher. He has provided all women in their reproductive years with an invaluable resource which will allow them to be fully informed about the birth control pill.”
~ William F. Colliton, Jr., M.D., Clinical Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology,
George Washington University Medical Center
You may go to Randy Alcorn’s web site and read a summary of this 88-page book by clicking here. You may also order the inexpensive book from his site.
More facts about the Pill, IUDs, Depo-Provera and Norplant:
Again, if you’re reading about CHEMICAL ABORTIONS for the first time, this may surprise, or even shock you. Most Americans are not aware that the Pill and other chemical “contraceptives” cause millions of “non-surgical” abortions each year in the early weeks of pregnancy. If you are using the Pill, Depo-Provera or Norplant, you need to know the truth about how these products work.
Most women take these “contraceptives” because they don’t want to have a baby. But how many women know they can have BREAKTHROUGH OVULATIONS and become pregnant while using these “contraceptives?” Very few! And how many of these women know that if they become pregnant after a BREAKTHROUGH OVULATION, these “contraceptives” will almost always kill any son or daughter they’ve conceived?
Most people don’t know the real facts about how “contraceptives” work. And because of this lack of knowledge, most women are not aware that they may be having BREAKTHROUGH OVULATIONS, and conceiving children that are killed very early in the pregnancy. Women using these “contraceptives” almost never perceive that they have become pregnant, or that chemicals have killed their tiny baby.
What is Breakthrough Ovulation?
While using the Pill and other chemical “birth control” products, many women’s ovaries continue to release eggs. This is called “Breakthrough Ovulation” and it occurs in millions of women each year. Once an egg has been released via ovulation, a woman can become pregnant.
You can still conceive a child . . .
If you’re using “birth control” products and you have a breakthrough ovulation that releases an egg, sperm can then reach and fertilize your egg. At that moment — you would be pregnant! Fertilization means conception has taken place and you now have a brand new son or daughter who is as complete genetically as he or she will ever be throughout life.
When Does Human Life Begin?
Internationally-known geneticists and biologists have testified that human life begins at conception. In 1981 (April 23-24) a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee held hearings on the question: When does human life begin? The following doctors testified:
Dr. Hymie Gordon, Chairman of the Department of Genetics at the Mayo Clinic, said: “By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception.”
Dr. McCarthy de Mere, a medical doctor and law professor at the University of Tennessee, testified: “The exact moment of the beginning of personhood and of the human body is at the moment of conception.”
Dr. Jerome Lejeune, The Father of Modern Genetics, testified that, “Each of us has a very precise starting moment which is the time at which the whole necessary and sufficient genetic information is gathered inside one cell, the fertilized egg, and this is the moment of fertilization. There is not the slightest doubt about that and we know that this information is written on a kind of ribbon we call the DNA.”
The late Dr. Lejeune of Paris, France, discovered the genetic cause of Down Syndrome. He received the Kennedy Prize for this discovery, as well as the Memorial Allen Award Medal, the world’s highest award for work in the field of Genetics.
How does the Pill work?
The Pill has three mechanisms of action which can easily be looked up in the Physician’s Desk Reference.
1) Sometimes, the Pill suppresses ovulation. When this happens, an egg is not released and conception cannot occur. (It’s important to read on and find out about the high rates of breakthrough ovulation. When ovulation is not suppressed, pregnancy can occur.)
2) The Pill also works to thicken the woman’s cervical mucus which can “restrict” sperm from moving up the reproductive tract toward the egg.
3) One way the Pill causes early abortions is that it interfers with the flexing motions and the cilia movement of the fallopian tubes. These changes slow the transportation of newly conceived child from the fallopian tubes to the womb. Unfortunately, many small babies starve to death in the fallopian tubes because chemicals caused changes that prevented them from reaching the womb in time to be nourished.
4) Another way the Pill causes early abortions: If your tiny baby survives the ride down the fallopian tube to your womb, the Pill will almost always cause the endometrium (the lining of your uterus) to reject your child. Chemical reactions often cause the lining of your womb to become thin, shriveled and unable to support implantation of your newly conceived child.
This means that in almost every case, your new child will not be able to attach to the wall of your womb where he or she would normally live, grow and receive nourishment for 9 months. This means your tiny baby will starve to death and his or her remains will be passed along in your next bleeding cycle. (The “Study of Abortion Deaths Commission” estimates that this happens in women in America who use the Pill approximately 1 to 4 million times each year.)
The chemicals that cause these early abortions are called abortifacients which is the medical term for any chemical agent that causes an abortion.
Depo-Provera, Norplant and IUDs
Depo-Provera and Norplant both use chemicals that work in very simlar ways on a woman’s body and womb. Depo-Provera and Norplant are also considered chemical abortifacients.
IUDs or Intra-Uterine Devices, are small plastic devices that are inserted into the womb. Some IUDs contain copper or a time released hormone. It is believed that the IUD causes a low grade inflammation in the lining of the womb. As a result, the lining of the womb is imperfect and the fertilized egg will not implant. (Source: This paragraph on IUDs is quoted directly from the Calgary Regional Health Authority’s web site.)
Because of the chemical effect an IUD has on a woman’s womb, tiny babies are aborted. Therefore, IUDs are also considered abortifacients.
Breakthrough ovulation proved long ago . . .
Birth control advocates and manufacturers of the Pill have known these facts for years. Have they done a very good job of informing women about how the Pill really works? (Please email us and let us know if you were aware of how the Pill worked before you read this.)
When chemists devised the Pill that debuted in 1960, they gave it a huge dose of a chemical that caused most women’s ovaries to stop secreting eggs (i.e., to stop ovulation). The theory was “no egg, no pregnancy.”
However, some women continued to release eggs and get pregnant while on the original Pill. (Studies have shown that an even higher percentage of women release eggs while using today’s newer, re-formulated Pills. More about today’s Pills in a moment.)
In her award winning study of women taking the earlier high dose Pills, Dutch gynecologist Dr. Nine Van der Vange showed “proof of ovulation based on ultrasound exams and hormonal indicators occurred in about 4.7% of the cycles studied.” (Source: Sterns, Dr. David, “How the Pill and the IUD Work: Gambling with Life,” American Life League, PO Box 1350, Stafford, VA 22555)
And the “Textbook of Contraceptive Practice” states that, “Among women who have been followed over a considerable number of cycles, breakthrough ovulations occur in 2 to 10 percent of cycles.” (Source: Dr. J. Peel & Dr. Malcolm Potts, Textbook of Contraceptive Practice, 1969, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press)
Please note that these references are to the lower breakthrough ovulation rates of the Pills of the 1960’s. The new Pills of the 1990’s work differently and have much higher breakthrough ovulation rates. This will be explained as you read on.
Why the big secret?
Why aren’t most women aware that the Pill causes early abortions? Let’s look at the large pharmaceutical companies who advertise, market and sell the Pill. They make huge profits from the Pill — and they’ll continue to make mega-profits — if women are convinced they’re not getting pregnant and they keep buying and taking the Pill everyday. But are they being honest with you? Have they clearly explained that their products cause millions of early chemical abortions each year?
The New Pills: Much Higher Rates of Breakthrough Ovulation . . .
The original Pill of the 1960’s had to be modified due to harmful side effects that women were experiencing because of the powerful chemicals. All versions of today’s “Combination Pill” have a reduced hormonal content. When compared to the Pills of the 1960’s and 1970’s, this reduces the chance of harmful side effects for women, but it also increases their chances of ovulating and conceiving a son or daughter.
Dr. Ronald Chez, a scientist at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), publicly stated that the new Pills of today, with their lower estrogen dose, allow ovulation up to 50% of the time! (Source: Sterns, David, M.D., Sterns, Gina, R.N., B.S.N., Yaksich, Pamela, “Gambling with Life, How the I.U.D. and ‘The Pill’ Work” (www.top.net/vitalsigns).
With these newer Pills, simply missing one tablet, or failing to take the Pill at the same time each day increases the chances of breakthrough ovulation. Reactions with other drugs increases the chances of breakthrough ovulation, especially with caffeine and nicotine, or some prescription medicine (Source: “Abortifacient Contraception: The Pharmaceutical Holocaust” by Dr. Rudolf Ehmann, Human Life Intl., 1993, p.15).
Makers of the new “mini-pill” claim it does not have the side effects of the combination pill. However, they don’t tell you that scientific research shows the mini-pill does not stop ovulation at all in 67-81% of the women who use it, so the probability of conception is much higher. (Source: Tonti-Fillippini, Nicholas, Linacre Quarterly, 1995)
Breakthrough Ovulation Estimates for other “Birth Control” Methods:
1) Norplant has breakthrough ovulation 50-65% of the time.
2) Depo-Provera has breakthrough ovulation 40-60% of the time.
3) The IUD has breakthrough ovulation 100% of the time.
4) With over 17 million American women using the Pill and other chemical abortifacients, it is estimated that breakthough ovulation and pregnany occurs so often . . . that between 7 to 12 million newly conceived children are killed by chemical abortions in the womb each year. And most of these women never even knew they were pregnant.
(Sources for the four points listed under Breakthrough Ovulation Estimates above are as follows: 1) Hilgers, Dr. Thomas, “Norplant” Linacre Quarterly, 1993, p.64-69. 2) “Infant Homicides Through Contraceptives,” 1994 by the Study of Abortion Deaths Ad Hoc Commission – Bardstown, KY. Ph: 502-348-3963. 3) ibid. 4) ibid.)
Betrayed!
If you are taking these products to avoid pregnancy (and abortion), now you know that the makers and promoters of “birth control” products have betrayed you and your children. It has been proven many times that these products do not completely stop ovulation and conception. In fact, depending upon the product you’re using, you could be at risk of ending the life of a newly conceived son or daughter every month by birth control’s chemical abortions.
More Proof . . .
The Food and Drug Administration stated in 1978 that:
Combination oral contraceptives . . . [make] alterations in the genital tract including changes in the . . . endometrium (which reduce the likelihood of implantation) . . . but progestogen only contraceptives [re: mini-pills] are known to alter the cervical mucus, exert a progestational effect on the endometrium, interfering with implantation. (Emphasis added)
Medical Publications confirm the facts . . .
“The Physicians’ Desk Reference” quoted a Searle brochure (Searle is a major pharmaceutical manufacturer of the Pill) which states that the mini-pill: makes the womb (uterus) less receptive to any fertilized egg that reaches it. (Emphasis added)
“Nursing ’85 Drug Handbook” states:
Progestogen…also caused endometrial changes that prevent implantation of the fertilized ovum. (Emphasis added)
“The Pill – How Does It Work?” By Albert D. Lorincz, M.D.: Cites a study of 1,200 women given a daily amount of progestogen equivalent to many birth control pills. 60% of them ovulated.
“Birth Control: Why Are They Lying to Women?” By J.C. Espinoza, M.D. (page 27) cites research which showed a 30% ovulation rate in women taking a combined Pill preparation.
From Birth Control Advocates
Lawyers from organizations that promote abortion have admitted in print and in legal briefs that these products cause abortions. A Tulane Law School Professor wrote:
…nearly all birth control devices, except the diaphragm and the condom, operate between the time of conception and implantation… (Emphasis added)
Attorney Frank Sussman argued in the U.S. Supreme Court:
…IUDs [and] low dose birth control pills…act as abortifacients.
The Big Lie
Propoganda from many pharmaceutical companies promotes a new definition of CONCEPTION. Their new definition is absolutely untruthful and totally unscientific. They created this new definition of when a child is conceived to help them sell their products with the label “contraceptives.” Their new definition says that conception occurs only when your baby successfully attaches to the lining of your uterus. THAT’S JUST NOT TRUE!
The real medical truth.
It’s very important to understand that when a sperm penetrates one of your eggs, you have conceived a child. Again, this is called fertilization or conception and from that point on, you have a brand new, genetically complete son or daughter.
Every conception is a very unique moment. For example, at your own conception, 46 chromosomes with 30,000 genes combined to determine all your physical characteristics; sex, facial features, body type, color of hair, eyes and skin. Even more amazing, intelligence and personality — the way you think and feel — were already in place within your genetic code. At the moment of conception, you were essentially and uniquely “you.” This is the same for every human being at the moment of conception.
Remember, the pharmaceutical industry has a multi-billion dollar business selling these abortifacients. Unfortunately, many of the people who prescribe these products are not aware of their homicidal properties. They may have a sincere desire to help women, but their lack of knowledge makes them uninformed accomplices to these early abortions.
As recent as 25 years ago, most doctors took the Hippocratic Oath. They pledged never to perform an abortion. Tragically, many working in the medical profession today betray your trust by renouncing this ethic. Many know the truth but do not inform you that “birth control” devices are abortifacients which cause abortions.
Did you know abortion was defined in a Public Health Service document published by the U.S. Department of Health, Education and Welfare as follows:
“All the measures which impair the viability of the zygote anytime between the instant of fertilization and the completion of labor constitute, in the strict sense, procedures for inducing abortion” (source: Public Health Service Leaflet no. 1066, US Dept of Health, Education, and Welfare, 1963, 27). This includes chemical abortions like those caused by the Pill, Depo-Provera and Norplant.
Now That You Know The Truth . . .
If you have used these products, this is very sobering news. Pharmaceutical companies and medical providers have made many parents unwitting accomplices to their own children’s death by birth control abortion.
The Pill and its “cousins” kill children earlier in their life than surgical abortion. In America, chemical abortions are estimated to kill more than 7 million babies each year — while surgical abortions kill about 1.5 million babies each year.
What will you do?
Scientists agree that a new human life begins at the moment of conception. If you believe this, then you know that abortion is wrong no matter how early in the pregnancy.
Now that you know the facts, statistics show that if you continue using abortifacient products, you will be aborting (killing) your own children each year. Do more research if you need to, but please stop using abortifacient chemicals immediately. (If you want to investigate further, another web site that contains more research and much greater detail is listed at the end of this article. It is highly recommended that you go to that web site today or sometime soon.)
Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked (Psalm 82:3-4).
You shall not murder (Exodus 20:13).
By Pro-Life Physicians
________________________________________
Introduction: Birth control pills, Depo-provera injections, and Norplant implants achieve their anti-fertility effects primarily by causing temporary sterilization, secondarily by causing abortion by preventing the implantation of the approximately week old human from successfully attaching or “implanting” into the wall of the mother’s womb, and thirdly by acting as a contraceptive barrier to sperm by thickening the cervical mucous. That some drugs promoted as contraceptives may really cause abortion has not been clear to many Americans for whom abortion presents serious moral questions.
Background of the Pill: Gregory Pincus, co-developer of the Pill, credits a visit from Planned Parenthood’s founder Margaret Sanger who promised research money for the development of the Pill! 1 Sanger, who supported abortion, was concerned about developing a Pill as a means of curbing the “population explosion.” 2 Like Sanger, Pill supporters who shared Sanger’s demographic concerns, such as Dr. Robert Kistner of Harvard, were less concerned about means than ends: “Our efforts to control population growth should not lead to mass guilt about methodology. It would be tragic if an effective postcoital pill or long-term progestational agent were declared illegal because of its abortifacient effect.” 3
Conflict of Values: Guilt would be a problem for some. In 1962 Dr. Mary Calderone, then Medical Director of Planned Parenthood, said that: “if it turns out that these intrauterine devices operate as abortifacients, not only the Catholic Church will be against them, but Protestant churches as well.” 4 Legal problems existed because the language of pre-Roe anti-abortion laws was such that the “broad language of statutes and cases would suggest that to use pre-implantation means on a pregnant woman would be unlawful… manufacturers, distributors or sellers of the pre-implantation means might be prosecuted under statutes prohibiting the manufacture, distribution, or sale of abortifacients.” 5
Technology Meets Biology: Planned Parenthood’s Dr. Abraham Stone noted in 1952 that any mechanical, chemical or “biologic method[s] that would prevent ovulation or fertilization merely prevent life from beginning…. Measures designed to prevent implantation fall into a different category. Here there is a question of destroying a life already begun.” 6 The federal Department of Health, Education and Welfare also acknowledged this in a survey of birth control research: “All of the measures which impair the viability of the zygote at any time between the instant of fertilization and the completion of labor constitute, in the strict sense, procedures for inducing abortion . Administration of compounds whose mechanism of action is of this character to man either as an investigative procedure or as a practical birth control technique poses legal questions that have as yet not been resolved.” 7 The problem was that most of the promising research included anti-implantation or abortion causing actions. 8
Facts vs. Semantics: With biology such a stubborn thing, Pill promoters turned to semantics for a solution. Swedish researcher Bent Boving, at a 1959 Planned Parenthood-Population Council symposium noted that: “Whether eventual control of implantation can be reserved the social advantage of being considered to prevent conception rather than to destroy an established pregnancy could depend upon something so simple as a prudent habit of speech.” 9 The advice was not isolated. At the 1964 Population Council symposium Dr. Samuel Wishik pointed out that acceptance or rejection of birth control would depend on whether it caused an early abortion. Dr. Tietze, of Planned Parenthood and the Population Council, suggested, as a public relations ploy, “not to disturb those people for whom this is a question of major importance.” Tietze added that theologians and jurists have always taken the prevailing biological and medical consensus of their times as factual, and that “if a medical consensus develops and is maintained that pregnancy, and therefore life, begins at implantation, eventually our brethren from the other faculties will listen.” 10
In 1965 the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology (ACOG) responded with its own semantic answer: CONCEPTION is the implantation of the fertilized ovum.” 11 Not everyone accepted these manipulations. Dr. Richard Sosnowski said he was troubled “that, with no scientific evidence to validate the change, the definition of conception as the successful spermatic penetration of an ovum was redefined as the implantation of a fertilized ovum. It appears to me that the only reason for this was the dilemma produced by the possibility that the intrauterine contraceptive device might function as an abortifacient. 12
The Pill and Abortion: The federal Food and Drug Administration approved the Pill for Limited use in 1960. First generation Pills allowed ovulation in 6.8% of menstrual cycles. 13 (Because of health problems, the Pill’s high levels of estrogen were reduced, but less estrogen allows greater breakthrough ovulation.) After much study a 1969 FDA Advisory Committee said the Pill’s “high degree of contraceptive effectiveness [was] brought about through interference with several phases of the reproductive process. an influence on the hypothalamus… is probably responsible for the… inhibition of ovulation…. The second major effect is on the endometrium. The progestin acts as an antiestrogen causing alteration in endometrial glands and as a progestin, causing pseudodeci-dual reactions. Both of these alter the ability of the endometrium to participate in the process of implantation.” (Emphasis added.) Longtime Planned Parenthood associate Dr. Lewis Hellman chaired the advisory committee, and Dr. Christopher Tietze of Planned Parenthood and the Population Council was a committee member along with other Planned Parenthood members. 14 And former Planned Parenthood President Dr. Alan Guttmacher is also on record as recognizing the triple mode of action for the Pill. 15
Pill Labeling: In December, 1976 the federal FDA proposed mandatory patient package inserts accompany all Pill prescriptions: “The Food and Drug Administration will regard as misbranded and subject to regulatory action any oral contraceptive that is shipped in interstate commerce… after April 6, 1977 without labeling that is substantially the same as set forth in this notice.” Thus the FDA required Pill manufacturers to tell physicians that the Pill included a mode of action that every physician would understand from his medical training to be an early abortion: “Combination oral contraceptives…. Although the primary mechanism of action is inhibition of ovulation, alterations… in the endo-metrium (which reduce the likelihood of implantation) may also contribute to contraceptive effectiveness… progestin oral contraceptives are known to… exert a progestational effect on the endometrium, interfering with implantation, and, in some patients suppress ovulation.” 16
Physician package inserts for the Pill are still required in 1998, and they still use language that indicates the Pill, Depo provera and Norplant inhibit implantation. These chemicals “harden” lining of the womb (uterus) creating a hostile environment and thus make it harder for the tiny multi-celled human being to implant in the wall of the womb. This constitutes abortion at approximately on week of life. There is no definitive medical agreement as to in what percent of the monthly cycles this occurs.
We, the undersigned physicians, do therefore declare that the pill and similar birth control products act, part of the time, by design, to prevent implantation of an already created human being. These products clearly cause an early abortion and are-despite the semantic gymnastics of their ardent apologists-abortifacient.
We further declare that the so-called emergency contraceptive products being promulgated on the American people work in the same fashion and are also abortifacient.
________________________________________
FOOTNOTES
1) Gregory Pincus, The Control of Fertility, Academic Press, New York, 1965, p. 6; Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Research Facilities, Activities and Accomplishments, memo, 1/20/53, Margaret Sanger Collection, Library of Congress.
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2) Margaret Sanger, Family Limitation, 1st ed., 1914, 15-16, Margaret Sanger collection, Library of Congress (MSCLC); Sanger Speech, Washington DC, (MSCLC) speech was first given in 1916 and delivered 119 times; letter from Sanger to Hanna Stone, 3/10/32 copy to Marjorie Provost (Sanger’s handwriting) Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College.
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3) Robert W. Kistner, M.D., The Pill, Delacourt Press, 1969, p. 248.
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4) Dr. Mary Calderone, discussion, :Mechanisms of Contraceptive Action,” in Intrauterine Contraceptive Devises: Proceedings of the Conference, held April 30-May 1, 1962, New York City, ed. C. Tietze and S. Lewitt, published by Excerpta Medica Foundation, 110.
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5) Sybil Meloy, “Pre-Implantation Fertility Control and the Abortion Law,” Chicago-Kent Law Review, vol. 41 (1964): 183, 205-06. Planned Parenthood recognized in its amicus brief for Roe v. Wade that criminal abortion laws could be applied to the IUD because of its potential to prevent implantation. PPFA’s physician group (APPP) Amicus brief on page 44 cited Cybil Meloy, and also said that prosecutors had not used state anti-abortion laws to outlaw the use of IUD’s.
6) Abraham Stone, M.D., “Research in Contraception: A Review and Preview,” presented at the Third International Conference of Planned Parenthood, Bombay, India Report of Proceedings, November 24-29, 1952, no copyright, Family Planning Association of India, 101.
7) A Survey of Research on Reproduction Related to Birth and Population Control (as of January 1, 1963) US Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, Public Health Service, p. 27.
8) Memo to Dr. Drill from Dr. Saunders, re: “Effects of Drugs on Mating in Rats,” 12/9/54, Gregory Pincus Papers, Manuscript Division, Library of Congress; Abraham Stone, The Control of Fertility, Scientific American, April, 1954, vol. 190, no. 4, 31-33.
9) Bent Boving, “Implantation Mechanisms,” in Mechanisms Concerned with Conception, ed. C.G. Hartman (New York: Pergamon Press, 1963), p. 386. Boving acknowledged (p. 321): “…the greatest pregnancy wastage, in fact, by far the highest death rate of the entire human life span, is during the week before and including the beginning of implantation, and the next greatest is in the week immediately following.”
10) Proceedings of the Second International Conference, Intra-Uterine Contraception, held October 2-3, 1964, New York City, ed. Sheldon Segal, et al., International Series, Excerpta Medica Foundation, No. 1, September 1965.
11) ACOG Terminology Bulletin, Terms Used in Reference to the Fetus, Chicago, American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, No. 1, September 1965.
12) Dr. Richard Sosnowski, head of the Southern Association of Obstetricians and Gynecologists “The Pursuit of Excellence: Have We Apprehended and Comprehended It?” American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, vol. 150. No. 2 (September 15, 1984) 117.
13) Joseph Rovinsky, M.D., “Clinical Effectiveness of a Low Dose Progestin-Estrogen Combination,” Obstetrics and Gynecology, vol. 23, no. 6, June, 1964, p. 845, citing Goldzieher et al., JAMA, 180:359, 1962. “In 6.8 percent of menstrual cycles they have studied on patients on norethindrone medication, urinary pregnanediol excretion reached levels ordinarily found only in the postovulatory phase of a normal menstrual cycle.”
14) Advisory Committee on Obstetrics and Gynecology, Food and Drug Administration, 1969, Second Report on the Oral Contraceptives, 8/1/69, “Report of the Task Force on Biologic Effects,” Philip Corfman, NIH, Chairman, app. 4, p. 69.
15) Alan F. Guttmacher, M.D., “Prevention of Conception Through Contraception and Sterilization,” Gynecology and Obstetrics, vol. 1, ch. 22n, December, 1966, p.8.
16) Federal Register Vol. 41, No. 236, Tuesday, December 7, 1976, 53634.
Before saying something about the RH Bill!
Everyone should read first the entire RH Bill…and comprehend!
Don’t follow what others say… be intellectual!
I just don’t get the point of the RH bill since all of what’s in it is already within reach. In education, (Biology and General Science for HS and Elementary respectively) reproduction, contraceptives and diseases (HIV, AIDS etc) are being tackled. In Values Ed we have marriage, abortion, human rights lessons, etc. Family planning comes in Sociology, I think, in college. Other matters in the bill are available in the nearest health center in your vicinity. If you want more info, then attend seminars, ask the respective NGO’s.
look at this:
SEC3. l. Respect for, protection and fulfillment of reproductive health rights seek to promote not only the rights and welfare of adult individuals and couples but those of adolescents’ and children’s as well…
I need clarification on this… Does this mean that even under-age ones, once seeking for advice on safe sex are to be respected and handed out contraceptives with lectures regarding the pro’s and con’s of it?
Even now., I think if you will seek advise about safe sex from a professional health worker, even if you are underage, they have the responsibility to explain it to you., Not encourage you but to just explain it to you., Its your right to know… 😉
the country just need this bill… i’m looking forward for the passage of this bill.
Korky Cute said “the country just need this bill…”
I say — Para saan. Wala akong nakikitang dahilan bakit kailangan ng bansa natin ang rh bill.
Gusto mo bang mag condom, eh di mag condom ka.. pero bumili ka ng sarili mo
No to RHBill No to waste of taxpayer’s money No to contraceptives Yes to life Yes to morality Yes to God.
Having budget for free contraceptives would emulate corruption in the long run…The Government is not the right entity to fight against this specific problem that our country’s facing c0z this has something to do with our spirituality (Gibo says). Lot of people would say “You haven’t read the Bill”. But being aware of free contraceptives to the youth is just gives license to sexual immorality. I mean common I would prefer NFP. Parang sinasabi ng Bill na walang kontrol ang mga Pilipino pagdating sa sex.
I would be on the PRO-RHBILL side if and only if, “NO FREE CONTRACEPTIVES AND STERILIZATION TO THE YOUTH”. My classmates go crazy about it and it bothers me of their ignorance. As simple as that…yaon lang naman dahilan kung bakit ganoon nalang maka-react ang simbahan because it has something to do with our spirituality and morality as Filipino Citizens.
“NO FREE CONTRACEPTIVES AND STERILIZATION TO THE YOUTH”. <— that is NOT in the RH Bill. yes, you have to read the bill first.
that says small family size is correlated to wealth and quality of life. it also means the poor need the most help in helping them maintain the ideal birth spacing if not family size.
for me, having my own choice if i will use contraceptives or not is not putting an end to the human population we are not really forced to use it if we don’t want to. i also believe that, it depends on the husband & wife what they really want for their family’s future…if they can support 10 children, then they can have 10 but if the other way around, they should agree on what family planning there up to.
we are talking about sudden increase of population here and how it affects our country, our economy and our quality of life. this bill maybe not the solution but it could be a stepping stone in order to attain such. let us not compare ourselves to those who are from other country’s, for they have different lifestyle, beliefs, laws and government. let us broaden our judgment, let us not think about ourselves. this bill is not perfect, that’s the reason why there is such thing as amendments…. proper information dissemination is what we need, and i believe that this is what the bill is trying to offer.
In my perspective, most of the things “written” in this bill should be given importance. Most of it provide proper tools that may temporarily give solution to a few problems that our country is suffering as of the moment: overpopulation (which I personally think is not a problem at all in our country, Manila may have this problem but not Philippines completely.), poverty, etc.
But passing this bill doesn’t solely eliminate these problems, it would take strict and proper implementation of it to atleast aid in stopping our tribulations. We have a lot of laws that are in need of proper implementation, some of it are actually incorporated in the RH Bill. Why not strengthen and properly implement these laws rather than wasting money in passing another bill that might not be implemented properly? If by any chance, other laws have already been properly looked and excuted, then we can consider rewriting to what should be added to strengthen passed bills for proper instigation.
For those of you who are just thinking of passing this Bill because you think there is nothing wrong written in it, well, you could be right. There might be nothing wrong with the Bill, but have you considered of how much money would it cost to actually pass and implement such bill? You haven’t. It is not included in the Bill at all, it would atleast cost the government P800 million! From where should we get the money to implement it? Which budget should we cut to support it? Education? Health? or should we just add taxes (which targets most middleclass families) just to support it? We don’t even have enough budget for education, which for me, should be the government’s main priority–adding more budget to education will clearly help eliminate poverty ( I do hope everybody agrees) I would also like to quote one of the commenters who actually read my mind in saying that “I just don’t get the point of the RH bill since all of what’s in it is already within reach. In education, (Biology and General Science for HS and Elementary respectively) reproduction, contraceptives and diseases (HIV, AIDS etc) are being tackled. In Values Ed we have marriage, abortion, human rights lessons, etc. Family planning comes in Sociology, I think, in college. Other matters in the bill are available in the nearest health center in your vicinity. If you want more info, then attend seminars, ask the respective NGO’s” He has a point right?
Don’t get me wrong, the Bill is actually quite good, my point is there are other passed bills which encompasses the same thing, just strengthen this and implement it!
The only thing wrong with the RH Bill is the part wherein it says that post- abortion complications should be taken cared of: “Prevention of abortion and management of post-abortion complications” If the RH Bill is completely against abortion then why take care of the people who aborted their babies, they are, in point of fact, murderers who should be punished for killing like other criminals who are punished. If there are people who will take care of them in post abortion to some point. If a man kills somebody wouldn’t he go to our cramped jails, hands tied, with a bump on his head after being hit with a “batuta” by a police or maybe even a gunshot? Then those who aborts life should take on the same thing, and besides the bill promotes proper education to lessen unwanted pregnancies therefore if they have already been educated and given knowledge to what would happen of they “do it” then wouldn’t it be defying the main purpose of the bill if we take care of the people who aborts their children, they should be punished!
Hahahaha! Peace everyone, let’s make love not war! Im here to make a point just like most of you guys! 🙂 Let us all be civil about each other’s comments! 🙂
I’m a Roman Catholic, sometimes I’m in doubt in where side should I’ll be, as I read the full text of the said bill I realize that it has many advantages, but on the other side it causes disadvantages. i hope that God will guide us, especially our law makers on what is really the right road should be taken. The better things to do in this time is simply lets pray for the betterment of our fellow Filipino and to the entire nation as a whole.
THIS BILL SHOULD EXCLUDE USING TAX MONEY TO BUY CONTRACEPTIVES.
If it is as important as they say,
why can they not present quantitative returns to our country’s wealth?
Would it also reduce poverty? I’m afraid it is just gonna be a POSSIBILITY not a fact .
and the act of buying contraceptives using tax money does not connote the governments neutral stand between traditional and modern methods.
Fairness for all cannot be seen by this act, since these are depreciating assets and are prone to inventory increase. Do they even have good or enough storage facilities? How much would that cost?
They are more of a liability than an investment.
Are you sure this bill is empowering the GOAL not the PROBLEM itself? By that, would it influence our direction towards the goal of having a stable income for each citizen and eventually becoming a first world country?
If this bill does not solve poverty, what next? Spend a billion more to encourage people to make more children just like the other countries?
This bill promotes a 2:2 fertility ratio. Meaning for 2 adults = 2 children, optimally a girl and a boy too.
A possible unintended consequence for this bill is an irreversible decline of demographics due to other causes of death. e.g. disasters, diseases, and etc.
Here is a simple analysis to prove the decline of demographics.
After the two adults die of old age or for some other reason, here are the scenarios:
a) the two children become adults replacements and bear another two.
RESULTS = population is maintained 2:2 = no increase nor decrease
b) the two children die before bearing their own children
RESULTS = population declines 2:0 = decrease
What ever scenario happens on a daily basis, there is no possibility of increase in population, just decrease.
If you want a graphical explanation of the analysis used above visit this link:
NOTE: ignore the other points mentioned there, just concentrate on the demographics explanation on how a decline of population becomes irreversible. It is shown and explained in the first few minutes of the video.
we really in need of this bill because it also lesser the quantity of maternal death in our country nowadays. it is not totally done with force this bill but it gives us an alternative method on how to become a responsible parenthood.
I am in favor of this bill, dont think that 5th grade is too young for sex education. Many 5th graders are getting pregnant and at 6th grade are already giving birth. Its not always the guys of same age who impregnate them, usually its high schoolers, friends or neighbors who allure them to try or sometimes coerce sex. And since only trained practitioners are allowed to give sex education and RH services and products it ensures that teens will not easily get their hands on contraceptives. But already many contraceptives are over the counter, there’s really no issue whether a health worker provides it or not. Even 711 sells condoms, and many contraceptive pills are over the counter in drugstores.
The catholic church always butts in politics especially now concerning conception and child bearing. But doesnt really help with solving the overpopulation crisis. They keep telling that using a condom is wrong because it hinders the creation of life,a form of abortion and is inhumane. But all they do is whine.
The only sad thing about this bill is that the budget may not be enough to fully enforce the bill. Health services are expensive, especially surgical procedures such as vasectomy and ligation. They cannot be simply given free to indigents. The Philippines is already under a lot of debt, and to enforce free services to indigents the government has to cut back on other areas just to support the rh bill.
A seminarian was judging me and trying to condemn me simply because of my stand regarding RH Bill, at first, I felt nothing, but later on, as I was heading home, I felt very uncomfortable, as if I am disrespected by him.
Well for his information’s sake, he stand against RH Bill simply because he is trapped in the four walls of the seminary which made him blind to the real situation of the outside and the REAL world. I’ve respected his side, so I guess, it would be better that he’ll also respect mine.
RH Bill should be passed into law, for now, it will be the immediate solution for the problems of our country:corruption, scarcity, pollution, illiteracy, and everything that comes out into your mind..
Let’s open ourselves regarding new things, things that would help us rebuild our sick and broken nation, so why not give a shot for RH Bill!
What about it’s consequences 50 years from now?
WE SHOULD READ THE RH BILL AS A WHOLE AND WITHOUT BIAS.
CAN NOT OUR LAW MAKERS SEPARATE THE ISSUES SO THAT PEOPLE CAN DECIDE WHICH PART OF THE LAW THEY WANT OR NOT?
1.Maternal health care and infant care?
Anti rh bill is also pro maternal care. We also want better health benefits for our people. It is the duty of government to provide it.
2.Mandatory sex education or family planning education?
In the 1980’s there have also been programs in family planning. As a grade 5 pupil, I attended these lessons. It was in the curriculum. And I think it is alright. It is not wrong teach children this basic information.
But, if you promote artificial contraception in the context of mandatory sex education, you will be subjecting children to an ENFORCED values education; to change their beliefs, and behavior. (This is an avowed goal of this rh bill).
Ultimately, the goal of this mandatory sex education is to make contraception acceptable to our children. Think of it. It is BRAINWASHING. And with children, it does not have to be violent to for it to be brainwashing. It just has to be manipulative. It is a form of child abuse. It is highly unethical.
Do you want our children to grow up in a culture of contraception? Let our schools teach our children good manners and right conduct, instead of contraception.
Let our children grow up having the freedom to choose what they want to learn or do. Let the parents teach their children about values, about morality. Is this not freedom of religion? IS THIS NOT WHAT PRO-CHOICE MEAN? Are these not the right of the Filipino people?
3.Contraception as essential medicines?
Maraming Pilipinong may sakit, nagugutom. CONTRACEPTIVES ba ang dapat ibibgay mo sa kanila? Sa maliliit na bata na nanglilimos dahil walang makain. Hindi makapasok sa iskwela dahil walang baon, walang makain, walang damit. PILLs ang ibibigay mo??
Magpunta ka sa mga ospital, makikita mo kung gaano karami ang walang pambili ng gamot. Ang dami daming kababayan natin na namamatay dahil walang pambili ng anti-hypertension medicine. Is this not the real ESSENTIAL MEDICINES?
KAILAN BA NAGING ESSENTIAL MEDICINES ANG CONTRACEPTIVES? That we the taxpayers should be obligated to purchase with our taxes. Hypertension medicines, anti tuberculosis medicines, vaccines, antibiotics etc.. yun ang essential medicines.
HOW CAN IT PROMOTE RESPONSIBLE PARENTHOOD when you give away contraceptives, which will be purchased from taxes of the people.
HINDI BA NAKAKAHIYA IYON NA IBA ANG GAGASTOS NG CONDOM, PILLS etc para sa pagtatalik ng isang magka partner? Ano responsible doon? Dapat kung gusto mo mag condom, mag-condom ka pero ikaw bumili galing sa pera na pinaghirapan mo. Hindi galing sa pera ng ibang tao. DELIKADEZA LANG YUN, AT SELF RESPECT.
And we are not talking only of a few pesos per condom, we are talking of hundreds of millions of pesos, and up to billions of pesos yearly.
THE GOVERNMENT MUST BE MORE CIRCU-MSPECT IN SPENDING PEOPLE’S MONEY. Contraception is a private matter. The rh bill should promote individual responsibility.
4. Responsible parenthood
BIGYAN NATIN NG TRABAHO mga magulang, para may pambili ng pagkain at gamot ng pamilya nila.
Pag may trabaho na sila, mag-kakaroon na sila ng pambili ng contraceptive kung gusto nila. Pag ibinigay mo condom, pills, at ibang contaceptive, tinuturuan mo lang silang maging iresponsable.
TAKE OUT the unethical provisions, and the rh bill will be a good bill.
LET US DEMAND FROM OUR GOVERNMENT more funds for livelihood education instead. It is one way of making our people more responsible. Give them the opportunity for work. Alam mo ba, that the budget for TESDA was cut?
I am a transferee student. And I don’t really mind what’s going on in our world. It’s in the past and now I clearly see the difference. As for this RH bill issue, although most of us ignore it, we will still be affected on what decision our government will undergo. Changes in our life is necessary. It makes the country have a better foundation. What I’m talking about is that we need this law for us to be more responsible and better behave for the consequences.
you’re fighting windmills here… this is not the final configuration of the Bill when it is signed into law… kakatayin pa rin yan because some parts are reprehensible to people like you… and others… so just chill out and simply point out what you don’t like about it…
Article 2 section 6 declares: “The seperation of the church and state shall be inviolable”
RH Bill is not good for many teens in our country because they have love ones so they cannot stop to do such thing as _ _ _ then they will abort the baby because there parents might know or they don’t want to be scolded so even if it is legalized by the president but still they do not follow the right laws of the Philippines ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
in my own perception.. personally ayoko sa rh bill.. bkt b tayo nagtatalo pa dito?? bkt hindi natin unahin ung mga problema sa edukasyon… kagutuman sa ating bansa… hindi tayo bubuhayin ng contraseptives… kaunti lng ang budget ng pilipinas.. eh kung babawasan pa natin ito… ano nalang ang mangyayari sa mga pilipinong naghihikahos sa ngayon… pano ung mga taong pumupila sa pcso… lalong mababawasan ung benepisyo nila kung maglalaan pa ng budget sa rh bill?? oh kung di babawasan… ano? mangungutang na naman tayo sa ibang bansa??
as a concern individual,,i strongly agree with this bill..i f ever there will be a signature campaign about this matter i will volunteer to go around to convince the people to have parallel idea with the government. For me,every bill or law is made for the good of the people. the problem of some is they cant accept maybe for some personal reasons and hidden agenda..
yes to Rh bill
that is not against god…..it is the people deed….if they want peace they do something good to our country which is to follow the law but their intention is bad they will did something that make the country troubled!!!!
…..and just a simple problem about the population……a basic problem….is is the parents…how they discipline their children….that’s all i can say…thankx!!!t.c!
i really agree to pres. noy of the rhbill bcoz. there are filipinos who are poor but have so many kids and they dont know how to raise thier childrens bcoz of poverty and i think it can really help the phil.
im only opposing the legalization of abortion in our country. then the rest are okay for me.
I’m also opposing the free distribution of condoms in public.
People can buy them ( I think anywhere).
It destroys the innocence of children.
Isabella Great comment at 15!
IN DEFENSE OF THE PROPAGATION AND THE PRESERVATION OF THE HUMAN SPECIES
In the world today, the human species is one of, if not, the most endangered species.
Just consider the vast number of deaths of human beings occurring every day, every month or every year, caused by several factors. Some of these factors or causes of death are plagues, illnesses, hunger, crimes, wars, calamities, climates of heat or cold, old age and abortions which are rampant in different countries, and others.
Different groups of concerned persons work hard to protect and preserve the environment, the animals, fishes, natural resources and others. Should we not now protect and preserve the human race?
And, as if to add insult to injury, some groups are proposing and encouraging the stoppage or the prevention of birth through birth control, not to mention the artificial means which are not only harmful to would-be mothers, but are violations to the sensibilities of different beliefs and faith, and are unconstitutional.
Therefore, the RH Bill should NOT be approved.
Let us preserve the Human Race!
i think this bill can help the people to be aware of what really the use of RH and how important to be pass the bill. i’m favor to the RH Bill
Personally, i believe abortion is not an absolute evil. Abortion happens quite regularly in nature, be it accidental and self-inflicted, as adaption or response to environment or for purposes of securing their survival. To us humans, there are states that allow abortion and there are those that call it a crime. Abortion is evil in the Philippines because of the law punishing it as such yet it also allows exceptions like when abortion must be resorted to when the life of the mother is at risk.
Should the law penalizing abortion be repealed. Then i guess views on abortion would be less hostile by then and the RH Bill would be less unappealing.
why is it that when we talk about rh bill the catholic church’s opinion matters most? hello? there are other religions in the philippines and not only catholic. it’s kind of partly discriminating other’s rights…. hmm?
i firmly disagree to this bill. i am 14 and i do not think that it would be right for the government to give us such consent and let as have sex for the reason that there are condoms that would cover up the sin the we are about make.
as “tempting” as how others would see this . it’s just wrong.
I agree
Distributing condoms for free might help make some people aware of not having children they can’t support.
But it also destroys the innocence of children.
excuse me, for awhile…..
first and foremost…. the government did not mandate to use such thing such as condoms or other contraceptives. for your information, this is a sort of information whom the couples may use in family planning specially to those couples who cannot spend for their children or those who are not planning to have it. and besides what is the purpose of having a partner if you won’t have your intimate moments……….
miss, be practical………. if don’t know the meaning if SEX…. beware of using it…..
ur right tatz2011
How can contraception be called abortion? Abortion is the Killing of a living Embryo Contracetion prevents the Either the Egg or the Sperm from meeting therefore preventing and removing the necessecity to kill an Embryo. To call another person a Fool is a sin in the eyes of the Lord read your book. No need to lower yourself and insult others even if they have opposing views.
what made you think that when you finished procreation, then used the pills, you didnt abort any life? what if the sperm entered the egg and then you used the pill what made you think that no abortion took place.
I may say that this bill does not really state the legalization of abortion, but come to think of it and read between the lines, it is not implied but it is the bottom line of this bill. It is just so sad that many Roman Catholics are in favor of this bill. I am respecting the beliefs of the people who wanted to pursue this bill.
I also just would like to add the controlling the population is not the solution in poverty, hence, the right allocation of the budget and stopping corruption would be the best way to stop this poverty. One downfall also of controlling the poverty is the loss of man power there are other countries who are in need of manpower because of birth control methods they are doing. Why don’t they just put the budget they want to place to other needs that our country needs.
Some parts of the bill is actually reasonable and appropriate however there are still somethings that are unclear somehow questionable. If this bill should be passed, i suggest some revisions and specificity. This should be applied more in an educational level and be more concentrated on giving education to everyone at an appropriate age. More of the education should also be given to the parents or those in the age of maturity. It is given to the parents so that they will be the one able to pass the knowledge with their children. This kind of information should be personal and educational. If proper education is given to the parents and the responsibility is given to them then it will be more ensured that the future children will be receiving the right information. The foundation of this bill should be on education, giving information and building the morality of the nation. Prevention is indeed better than cure and the best prevention is education and knowledge.
PRO RH-BILL 🙂
No to Rh Bill. I pray that the Filipinos will be enlightened with the bad effect of Rh bill to the lives of every family specially the children who will really be the victims of the said bill. I’m a pro life, pro love and a pro God.
what are the effects of the #rgbill on the family and specially the children? how will the children be victims?
one of the effects of the rhbill to families is it will help married couples plan the number of children they will have better, with proper spacing. this will allow married couples provide for their children food, education, shelter and clothing – a better future. isn’t that what parents want?
if rh-bill is for the good of our country; my simple question here is why in all the country that has this bill is now suffering from the lack of numbers of their youth, we all know that the youths are the ones to replace the olds of today…. May God enlighten all the people who wants to pass this bill…
i believe that you should not mix religion and politics because they are not a unanimous body. government exists in proof and in studies which are proven by humans who we know exist while religion is mainly theories, im not saying they’re not true but i’m giving the general difference of the two bodies. yes this may be a a ditch plan but the church cannot teach the irresponsible Filipinos through their sermons. we Filipinos are irresponsible and careless because sex is fun. they cannot control themselves thats why the government is making a plan because thats the job of the government. over population is a big problem in our country and it must be solved right away.
Let me ask all of you in here: WHO DOES THE FILIPINO PEOPLE BLAME BECAUSE OF POVERTY; THE GOVERNMENT. THE CHURCH ALSO BLAMES THE GOVERNMENT FOR ITS FAULTS; THE FUNNY THING HERE IS, THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING AN AID TO THE PROBLEM AND THE CHURCH AND THE PEOPLE WOULD STILL THINK THAT ITS WRONG.
you know that you cannot control yourself and yet you dont want anything to happen aid you. how petty is that. And also im against the church, they want to stop this bill from happening and yet the growing population together with the growing poverty is the governments problem. would the church give money for the poor? would the church do anything for the economy? would the church do anything feed every mouth who needs food? its the governments problem not theirs.
i say we pass this bill because we need this so desperately.
The RH Bill is not just a political issue, it is also a moral issue. First of all, the government has nothing to do with sex, religion and morality have. On the other hand, it is the duty of the government to protect the morality of the citizens by not permitting unacceptable foreign cultures to dominate its people.
The Law of the Land prohibits adultery, religion explains why. The Law prohibits stealing, religion explains why. The Law prohibits murder, religion explains why. The Law recognizes human rights, religion explains why we have it in the first place. The Law recognizes the autonomy of a family, religion explains why it has so.
What’s the point? First point: The Law is based on morality, morality is based on the Natural Law, and the author of this Law is God whom we know through religion. If you are a Christian, you know that all kinds of government comes from God and must recognize God, not itself, as the source of authority.
Second point: Morality is superior than legality. The latter is determined by man, while the former is determined by nature.
Third point: Morality understands the nature of man and knows what is good for him. The government, on the other hand, cannot claim to be doing what is good for the citizens if it does not recognize morality.
You say that we, Filipinos, are irresponsible because sex fun, but I beg to disagree. There are sexual irresponsibility all over the world, and SOME Filipinos are guilty of it.
You say they cannot control themselves so the government is making a plan. Your message obviously implies that since the people cannot control themselves, the government is planning to control them — and that is regarding population, right? Your issue is not really about sexual activities, its appropriateness and morality, but rather about “unwanted pregnancies” and “overpopulation”. So what are we now, a utilitarian country?
WHO DOES THE FILIPINO PEOPLE BLAME BECAUSE OF POVERTY?
Yes, many Filipinos blame the government and it is actually blame-worthy because of it’s inability to radically root out corruption and recognize the real causes of poverty. On the other hand, those people who do not do anything but blame the government are irresponsible people.
THE CHURCH ALSO BLAMES THE GOVERNMENT FOR ITS FAULTS;
Wrong interpretation. The Church doesn’t blame the government for its faults; it corrects and reminds it. The duty of the Church towards the government is like that of the conscience towards the mind. It needs constant reminder, and it is for the welfare of the whole body.
THE FUNNY THING HERE IS, THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING AN AID TO THE PROBLEM AND THE CHURCH AND THE PEOPLE WOULD STILL THINK THAT ITS WRONG.
Again, only nature can say what is right and what is wrong, and it is expressed through moral standards, which the government, in its turn, must recognize. The country is predominantly Christian, and it just fitting that the government respects Christian morality.
It is rather the stand of our anaphysio. The Church says that sex has its procreative and unitive aspects, either of which cannot be absent. To procreate without love for one’s spouse is not right, and so is expressing love through sexual intercourse without being open to the possibility of life.
According to a etymology book:
genitals
“reproductive organs,” late 14c., from genital (adj.).
genital (adj.)
late 14c., in membres genytal “the genitals,” from L. genitalis “pertaining to generation or birth” (also a by-name of the goddess Diana), from genitus, pp. of gignere “to beget” (see genus). As a noun meaning “sex organ” from mid-15c.
Genitals were called so because man recognizes it as mainly for the purpose of generation. Besides, the RH Bill is not just for married couples. One of its goals is to promote the so-called sexual rights that, according to the people behind the concept, EVERY individual has. As soon as you become a sexual being (which you are since birth), you have these sexual rights. And who do you think defines those rights? Hmm… Maybe you should ask the IPPF.
Note: I am not claiming that sex is just for PROcreation; I am just saying that it is not for REcreation.
Then, practically, the RH Bill is not okay with you.
the rhbill does not promote abortion. in fact the bill expressly states it is against abortion.
Reposting the reply:
Reposting for a quick reply:
We must understand that the root cause of the nation’s problems is its unbridled population growth. One simply has to see the perennial shortage of classrooms and teachers (which has deteriorated from bad to worst, year-in and year-out) to be convinced that this is the mess our people have built up over the years. In the face of it all, one single entity opposes the government’s efforts to curb the alarming demographic up-trend: the Roman Catholic Church. This is so for its very obvious selfish reasons – the money offering and the sacramental services. The more faithful it baptizes into its fold, the rosier its future. Then it enjoys tax-free privileges for a poor country in dire need of funds. So how does the church alleviate poverty? Does it open its doors to the poor by sharing the monies it collected? Nope. Instead, it uses the pulpit to raise funds and materials because it can even hardly support itself financially. How the church address the lack of educational resources? Does it build structures and hire tutors? Again, no. It would rather build schools for its own business. Instead of being at loggerheads with the government on the RH bill, why can’t it channel its energies instead to the dwindling mass attendance and adherents of the faith? Why can’t it police its ranks and discipline its priests surreptitiously committing crimes instead? Meantime, the population menace continues to exist as a threat to our national existence and progress. Unless this thorn is removed, we shall remain problematically poor. In whatever form the RH bill takes, it must be put in place for all our sakes. God will surely understand that His command for Man “to go forth and multiply” needs to be rationalized so His people can share His blessings equally and in peace.
Hi, I think RH bill nothing to do with lack of classrooms and teachers, because there’s always a big budget intended for it given to DECS according to my source, but sad to say that it’s because of “CORRUPTION” , then how come there’s a shortage of teachers, well, in fact every year there are plenty of graduates? Then why most of our competent teachers went abroad, maybe because, the government lack attention and support for the teachers. I think corruption is the very problem and not population growth. This RH bill, do you think there’s no hidden agenda behind it? Try to understand the very content of it, there’s big MONEY involve….
I am half-pro and Half-Anti.
Pro, because it maybe the solution for the increasing cases of STD’s, AIDS, increasing population of our country, unwanted pregnancies. And anti, because it actually encourages pre-marital sex which is for me is very IMMORAL. (it’s only my OPINION). Well, we all know that this bill has a advantage and disadvantages.
what you need to teach kids is proper ethics. If you do not have the proper ethos to manage your human relationships you make babies by accident whether or not you have the Law… this is going to be law that can be used to protect people from depriving the populace as a whole better access to manage families to HAVE BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE… THIS IS THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET THE CHURCH DOES NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW.
Mga tao rin kayo, diba? Please, pansinin niyo naman na ang anino ng Bill na ito ay may halong pre-abortion. Hindi mo nga pinatay ang bata, pinagkaitan mo naman ng pagkakataong masilayan ang mundo, kung gaano ito kaganda kahit pa marami nang basura. Sana, makita niyong hindi sa pagkakaroon ng anak ang problema. Ang medical facilities natin, mas masahol pa sa mga kinakalawang na bakal, mga kapatid. Nakita niyo na ba ang mga pampublikong ospital natin? Libre nga, walang bayad! Libreng mamatay nang mas maaga.
Wag naman tayong maging makasarili. Mahalin natin ang kapwa natin. Habang binabasa niyo itong sinasabi ko, samahan niyo ng puso. Pakiusap, sa ika-7 na ng Agosto!
Bakit ang simbahang Katoliko ang pinupuntirya niyo? May salamin ba kayo sa bahay? Tignan niyo kung sino ang sumisira mismo hindi lang sa sarili niyo kung hindi pati ang kapwa niyo. Damay-damay ito kung saka-sakali. Sana naman totoong pagtulong ang ialay natin sa bawat isa. Bakit natin itatago sa pangalang Reproductive Health Bill ang papatay sa moralidad natin?
Ibasura natin itong RH Bill, mali ito. Maling-mali.
It’s not the bill nor the teaching that makes or breaks. It’s a person’s own DECISION that creates the difference.
We are all humans with flaws, and so are the ideas that come out of us. Who are we to say that this is better than the other? Would it be a better resolution to JOIN FORCES to provide the options to the best interest and welfare of the majority and let the people decide for themselves? Sure both parties would say they value life, but should each end claim they know better to the get the right to shove their policy down Juan de la Cruz’s throat? There are more equally (if not more) important issues to be resolved, and settling the issue this way won’t solve the rest altogether, nor end the current dispute once and for all.
Di mo mapipilit ang isang tao kung ayaw o gusto niya ang contraceptive, like hindi mo rin mapipilit mabago ang pananaw ng isang tao sa RH bill simply by forcing your ideas into him/her. I suggest the congress to open conversations with the CBCP to finally clear out the facts from the misinterpretations/rumors/misleading data regarding the contents of the bill and the CBCP to stop the threats and prejudice to the congress members(which they admit!) and open their doors to listen to what the congress has to say. Walang kahahantungan kung ang goal nating lahat dito e malaman kung sino ang tama at mali. National concern ito, hindi high school debate. Lawakan natin ang pananaw at ideya sa pangkalahatan, hindi lang from a personal view dahil tayong lahat e affected maipasa man ang bill o hindi.
August 7…malapit na. We Catholics should know better and humbly pray harder in silence for this rather than go public and stir bad thoughts against our neighbor just to prove our point..even if it’s the noblest of all causes. ASK..and always ask ourselves: what would Jesus do?
The intellects in position to decide on this matter should ask: Is this really for the better of all in the long run? Or am I just pushing my/our/his/her ideas too hard?
This is not just a government or a church matter alone. It’s every Filipino’s person’s concern in more than just health and moral/spiritual aspect.
So before posting, THINK! ASK YOURSELF: Am I speaking from my personal spiritual/intellectual point of view, or am I looking into the situation seeing all the other people and aspects involved in this issue? Let’s not stir too much arguments here. Isa lang naman ang gusto natin: ang ikabubuti ng lahat ng Pilipino.
Just thinking out loud rather than take sides…and no, I will never entertain a debate about what I just said.
On my own opinion i dont agree about this bill, for me this bill is liar, for me if you read this bill you will decide this is Good and must be implemented but if you think it million times this bill is against the Law of God and also the innocent babys. If you think million times the bill tells population control then how if your the one who is also innocent baby from the mothers wom, who have no strenght to depend your self what well be your feelings?, if you are a person who against killing you will include abortion and post abortion. Lastly if you are a person Who have fear in God and his commandments? what will be your choice agree or disagree think twice, ten’s, hundreds, thousand, million, billion, trillion or even everlasting times . What is most important the Law of the Government or Law of God?
Kahit hindi ako lasing, hindi ko mapigilan ang panggigigil ko sa asawa ko, kasi maganda siya palagi sa akin. Ngayon medyo nagka-edad na ako, ganon pa rin, masyado na marami mga anak namin, hindi ko na kaya tustusan ang pangangailangan namin, kaya hindi sila nakapagtapos ng pag-aaral. Naaawa ako sa kanila at nahihiya ako sa sarili ko. Sana tulungan ako ng gobyerno at ng simbahan na pakainin ang mga anak ko. Kaya para sa akin ok na rin seguro yang RH Bill, baka sakali mapigilan ang sobrang pagdami ng mga tao na ayaw namang magbungkal at mag-araro ng lupa para makapagtanim. Eh kaso parang wala na ring gustong magsaka kasi pinagbili na nila ang kanilang mga kapirasong lupa para pumunta ng maynila, nagbabakasakali nandon ang magandang kapalaran nila. Ngunit hindi lahat naging mapalad sa mga syudad. Ang iba lalong nagiging problema at pabigat sa lipunan. Bakit hindi tayo maging praktikal at magsikap sa mabuting paraan, baka maawa sa atin ang diyos at tutulungan tayo.
MY OPINION IS SIMPLE, THIS BILL DOES NOT DEPRIVE YOU OF CHOICE, YOU STILL HAVE IT. THOSE WHO THINK THAT SUPPORTED METHOD OF FAMILY PLANNING IS GOOD SO THAT THE PHIL POPULATION WOULD NOT DOUBLE IN 2020, MAY DO SO BY ALL MEANS,,, AND THOSE WHO THINK IT VIOLATES THEIR FAITH, THEN DON’T DO IT.
THOSE ANTI WHO THINKS TAX MONEY SHOULD NOT BE USED ON SOMETHING THEY ARE NOT IN FAVOR TO, JUST CRY YOUR ASS OUT, YOU DO NOT PAY TRUE TAXES ANYWAY,,, WHY WOULD THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WINGE ON THIS,,,THEY DONT PAY TAXES AT ALL.
I AM FOR THE RH BILL, BECAUSE NOBODY REALLY CARES IF PEOPLE LIVES IN RIVER SIDES AND DOES NOT EAT THE WAY PRIESTS DOES, DOES THE CHURCH DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?
THE GOVERNMENT ADMITS THAT IN 2020, POPULATION MAY NO LONGER BE MANAGABLE,,, OFCOURSE!!!! WHEN NOW THAT WE CANNOT MANAGE FOR PEOPLES JOB, SECURITY, FOOD AND BETTER LIFE,, HOW MUCH MORE WHEN THE POPULATION DOUBLED IN 2020.
SOME PEOPLE HERE PLAYS SCIENTISTS TALKING WHAT CONCEPTION IS, SPERMATOZOON, OVULATION, FERTILIZATION, BLA BLA BLA, THAT IS WHEN YOU RAN OUT OF SPIRITUAL STABILITY, YOU RELY ON SCIENCE, HA HA HA. THE SAME SCIENCE WHO THINKS THESE SCIENTISTS CAME FROM APES.
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE MOMENT THERE IS A CONCEPTION, A LIFE WAS ALREADY FORMED?? IF DOOMSDAY HAPPENS TODAY, WOULD THOSE JUST BEEN CONCEIVED BE ALSO SUBJECTED TO GOD’S JUDGEMENT? WHEN HE SAID” HUMAYO KAYO AT MAGPAKARAMI, AT KALATAN ANG LUPA NG TAO” IS HE TELLING THIS TO YOU? DI BA SINABI YUN KAY ADAN AT EBA? BAKIT??? EH DADALAWA LANG SILA NOON DIBA?
SIMPLE,
I COULD EXERCISE MY CHOICE, RAISE MY KIDS AND LEAD A FAMILY WITH A GOOD LIFE.,… NATURAL WAY OF PLANNING? IT IS GOOD BUT DIFFICULT,,,SUPPORTED METHOD? EASIER ,, SAME OUTCOME,,,AGAIN, ITS JUST A MATTER OF CHOICE.
God created man in His image and likeness. He created man to know Him, to serve Him, To love Him and adore Him. God was lonely thus God created Adam and Eve. Life begins. And only God can take that life.
Contraceptive is: contra means against and ceptive is conception. So against conception. Against birth. When you are against birth, you are against life. Thus, you are killing life. And nothing is left in this world because future generation is stopped Therefore you have violated God BECAUSE GOD GIVE US LIFE. IS IT NOT YOU ARE HERE ON EARTH?This RH Bill kills Life and thereby stopped generating people. iF YOU ALLOW THIS BILL, in short you legalized murder, parricide, homicide and infanticide and abortion. You have made wrong right. Please respect God. We are Catholics but it seems to me you no longer believe God. He is the one who gives you beautiful babies. It is the people abuses for they go on morality. There are men who have many wives and paramours thus resulting to many children. Am I not right? This should be stopped, infidelity of men are the ones contributing over population.
Education, choice and the means. These are what this bill espouses. If you honestly think that keeping our less fortunate countrymen uninformed and depriving them of choice and the means to implement that choice is evil, then by all means, condemn this bill. But if you think sharing the information and providing them with the means to implement their choice is the right thing to do, then please support this bill.
What will happen if the humanity conquers all?? they said humayo kayo at magparme pero noon po yun nung oonti plang ang mga tao nung uso pa ang incest iba na po ngaun. magparame dapat ng may responsibilidad kaso may mga taong walang responsibilidad you know why? kase di nila alam.. so we must infom them.. parang paggawa ng kasalanan na di mo alam kase kala mo ginagawa mo tama.. pero mali na pala so dapat ang tao iniinform gawa ng ginawa ni Jesus noon lage tayo iniinform sa mabuting balita I’m a pro life but i will support rh bill cause its the only hope for the upcoming poor family buti sana kung yung kotse ng pari at ibang sobrang pagkain ng nila dinodonate sa mahihirap ee… buti sana kung makikita mo silang tumutulong ngayong mas kailangan sila.. mabuhay para sa mga paring masisipag at pro rh bill gumising na katotohana para sa mag paring anti rh bill…
ayaw ng church ipasa ung Bill kasi mawawalan sila ng disciples… no discples = no money… 🙂
Yung mga tumututol, ayaw lang nila na kukunti ang mga batang mabibinyagan na may bayad, kukunti na rin ang mamamatay na may bayad parin sa libing, at syempre, ayaw nila na may flavor (condom) ang kinakain nila
..don’t you get it????
the flood in manila before the signing of RH bill is a sign that God doesn’t want it.
it funny to know that the flood is cause by a low pressure.. to think that it happen before the signing. common guys.. if this bill will be implemented what might other things might possibly happen.. i am an anti of it because it is anti-God, anti-life, anti-church and a stair to hell…they are implying a lot of good stuff but to think that our government is corrupt, nothing will happen if this bill is implemented.. poor will remain poor and rich will become richer.. and Philippines will become a puppet of US.. think about your next life not just your life here on earth..
natural phenomena has nothing to do with the signing of this Bill. it is only a mere coincidence. don’t try to associate every little natural calamity that is happening in the country to the RH Bill. another the thing, the problem with our country, so as we do not progress in terms of development is that, people like you who do not want to open themselves for changes are present.
kindly read the whole provision and understand it..it helps people especially women to stay healthy not just for themselves but for the babies they are carrying inside them through the maternal health care included in the bill. so how come that it will be an anti-life? you also mentioned that it is anti-church. no it is not. it just focuses on the health of the people, regardless of their religion as long as they are a citizen of this country. state and church are two different aspect of this country, try not to mix them up together.
Overpopulation as you see it is merely misdistribution of the entire Philippine population in the metropolis. The land area of the entire Philippines is so huge but people overcrowd only in the cities/
issue is not density of population per land area but high birth rate.
WE MAY NOT BE OVERPOPULATED IN TERMS OF LAND AREA. BUT WE ARE OVERPOPULATED ALREADY BASED FROM JOB OPPORTUNITIES, EDUCATION, FOOD SUPPLY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY OUR BUDGET.
SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT WE ARE NOT OVERPOPULATED WHEN WE ARE IN FACT THE 12TH MOST OVERPOPULATED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. AND THAT IS OUT OF 196 COUNTRIES. SO TELL ME, HOW THE FUCK ARE WE NOT OVERPOPULATED??
i learned a lot by just reading a part of you comments. im an anti rh bill not because of some peoples’ opinion but of what and how i feel about the bill.
guys! contraceptives causes cancer? maybe! who among you are smokers? who among you drinks liquors or cola? who among you rides cars that are not hybrid and belches co2? they also causes cancers aight?whats d point? ur smart, u’ll figure it out, just don’t deny it.
you’re forgetting to include that every man has his own free will and the right to use it. although the proposed bill includes having a free access to contraceptives, it is still the choice of the couple or any other person to use it or not. it just depends on how your mind works.
I think people have missed the key argument. The bill clearly states freedom of informed choice. That means you are FREE to CHOOSE. Whether or not to use contraceptives. It is your choice. Also did all the anti RH bill people miss all the other things it aims to do, like prevent violence against women and finding ways to decrease the maternal deaths and their causes. So are they pro violence to women? And they think stopping mothers from dying is wrong or not worth their tax money? If you plan on protesting against something, you should be sure to be specific, and more importantly well-informed.
after reading the rh bill, i see no reason to be against it
I’m just basing my comment from what i heard to the prominent politician who fought this bill because i did not able to read yet the content of the bill..
my comment to them is that, they said that their is no alteration to the natural family planning which used by the Filipino family before this law.. so f there is no alteration, it means that this law is just nothing like the law governing the smoking. there is law but yet it is not implemented and no person being penalize. its useless right?? so for now i am anti-RH BILL not because of the population issue but its because i think its another USELESS LAW … anyway that is my comment for now and maybe it will be change after i read the whole content of the bill.
only thing i sure is that, that bill will be fly in the congress as fast as the racket after the election.. hehehe.. binuotan pa man na ato mga congressmen karon ky hadlok mana cla dli i-vote…
Different types of contraceptives are very much available in our local health centers even before this bill. The midwives will explain the natural method and the artificail forms of contraceptive. They will also explain the advantages and side effects. Pinamimigay nga lang ang pills and free lang ang paglagay ng IUD sa local health centers. Those are not insisted to women/mothers, its their choice. My mom-in-law is a local health center midwife, but I never tried any artificial contraceptives kahit pa free. My body is my responsibility. Even without this bill, we should know what’s right and good for our body. Even the responsible parenthood, walang batas na makapagtuturo nito. Bilang isang mabuting magulang, maituturo mo ang tamang pangangalaga sa katawan ng mga anak mo, no need for RH bill. Pagkagastusan na lang ng gobyerno ang ibang problema ng lipunan.
god is great!!! we are blessed from the gift of GOD… ” NO TO RH BIILL ” 100%
m. While nothing in this Act changes the law on abortion, as abortion remains a crime and is punishable, the government shall ensure that women seeking care for post-abortion complications shall be treated and counseled in a humane, non-judgmental and compassionate manner. MALINAW NAMAN PAGKAPALIWANAG DITO.
All these boils down to one thing, self-righteousness. These law makers think that they know the best for the people, in the end the bottom line will be “easy” life for everyone. Hassle -free sex to be enjoyed out of marriage. The safest sex would be inside of marriage. Now what , you are inviting youngsters to indulge into safe sex? Husbands more likely to cheat on their wives, and the wives to their husbands. Depriving the lives that should be born, controlling everything from birth to our personal lives? People just don’t see it but these is the beginning of our “government controlled lives”, next is __________.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the LUSTS of your father you will do. He was a MURDERER from the beginning, and stayed not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
the people want and need the #rhbill. 70+% of all pinoys and catholics approve and support the #rhbill.
I just would like to react to the statement of Mercy M. You stated that “Pagkagastusan na lang ng gobyerno ang ibang problema ng lipunan”.. but do you know that one of the pressing problems of our country is population growth? That is why RH Bill is there to help our country from that kind of problem.
If this law makes the contraceptives accessible to right persons who need it (like the ones living below the poverty line), without promoting abortion (contraceptives not abortion is in this law right?), and can help in managing our nation’s resources by lessening the bubbling of our population (especially in the cities, plus the fact that cities consume more resources than the province), THIS SHOULD BE PASSED.
However, basing your decision on the religious “truths” which are all HUMAN STUPIDITY, like these catholic priests, YOU ARE WRONG!
BIBLICAL truths must be followed.
..some say that RH Bill is unconstitutional and violates state policies…if this will be passed and be approved by the government..it will be considered as a law that one must obey and follow as a good citizen of our very own country…we are now facing many crises…and these crises leads to poverty…as years passed by the population of the Philippines increases rapidly..if this bill will not be passed what will be the result..san titira ang mga ipapanganak pa…ndi naman sa i’m telling na bawal na manganak kapag pinasa ang rh bill it only deals with the proper regulation of the population in the country…cnong magpapakain sa maraming batang ipanganganak pa???sabi nila “ndi naman dapat ipasa ang bill na to dahil it only deals with the discipline of the Filipinos…d dapat sumang-ayon dito dahil ndi ito ang solusyon…” if you are thinking this way…ano ba ang dapat na solusyon para makalaya tayo sa kamay ng paghihirap…”DISIPLINA ang kailangan”..may disiplina ba???unwanted pregnancy increases its rate…!!
…according to Art. 2 Sec 12 if I’m not mistaken…talks about ah…”state shall protect the life of the mother and the unborn from conception” now…does RH Bill promotes abortion??cnabi bang “kapag napatupad and RH Bill lahat ay magcocommit ng abortion!” NO!!ndi ito ang cnasabi ng RH Bill so why not pass this??
…this is not a choice but this is a chance…this is an opportunity for the community to rise from poverty!…
i strongly believe that the people want and really need the RH Bill. I will support RH Bill evidence base one of the greatest problem our country are population (obviously it continues to increase), maternal and child problem. before we keep on reacting … please read and comprehend well what is RH Bill
We are a step closer to the destruction of the world. What are the causes of this? I can discuss three(3) major cause. Global Warming, Green House Effect and Human Population.
Global Warming said that started since the beginning of time, even studies said `virgin forests’ sums a percent of whole on the warming of the Earth. Green House Effect, because of modernization, what else? And the worst compliant. Human Population. What causes the floods? Which causes death to many. The rapid melting of sea glaciers which causes sea level rise. What if the all continents will become water bodies? We wont be able to survive if and only if, we wont be responsible of what is on today.
In conclusion, we should think atleast a bit of what will be tomorrow if we are overpopulated in the whole-wide-world. Or else the movie ‘Soylent Green’ won`t be a hypothesis movie anymore.
#Pro RH Bill
The RH bill is being promoted not only for the women but also to avoid over population and reserve the country’s resources for the future generations. Rh bill is like a “plan b” if the family failed the family planing, it is used to correct the mistakes that were made accidentaly and intentionally.
by being more responsible with the choices we make, and making the right choices without feeling guilty at all (our conscience), we help each other. how about total abstinence & fidelity before marriage? & total fidelity after marriage? let’s take care of our health in ways that can benefit others too,like our loved ones. let us not think only of this generation. but the generations to come, our unborn posterity and the kind of world they will live in. whatever it is. the decision is really up to us. whether you believe in God or not. everyone has to be responsible for the choices he makes.
Okay, stop being a smartass ’cause in my eyes you people who are against this Bill looks like an idiot to me. Are you guys that smart that you guys don’t know how to be wise?
The Earth, nay, for now, the Philippines—needs a solution and this bill is the right one for now.
Wait what?! You say you don’t know of any other solution now? Then come back here when you do okay bud? For now, it’s “Teach these Greedy Sloths how to dougie~”
Just because it’s bad doesn’t entirely mean it can’t do any good for everyone.
Learn… Learn from your mistakes.
shocks.. todo comment kayo pero hindi nyo man lang nabasa yung bill na to..? sa mga nagsasabing it promotes abortion eto yung isang excerp ha.. “While nothing in this Act changes the law on abortion, as abortion remains a crime and is punishable…” so hindi pa rin pwede ang abortion.. gosh.. may mga taong hirap pa rin makaintindi.. im pro RH bill dahil dami kong nakikitang pamilya na madaming anak at naghihirap… bigyan natin yung iba na magkaroon ng chance para sa mas magandang buhay..
I’ve read all the comments on this thread, what makes me sad is that, more often than not, comments here are focused based on the view of an individual who have not experienced an everyday struggle to feed their young, how many of you are illegal settlers? how many of you experienced not eating for a week? if you answer no to this two questions, do you really have the right to say no to RH bill?
In my opinion, the government should focus on Responsible Parenthood… It just so hard to look at a poor family consisting of 5-10 children, not sure if they have food to eat, nor a shelter to keep warm… If the parent’s would be responsible enough to think that with they’re financial capabilities, they cannot support these children to have a better future…
You’re right! “Self-discipline…” and being “responsible” parents…. If you cannot give a good life to your would-be offspring then, stop your cravings for __x…. But the real problem is with the couples (married or unmarried) …. to quote “kung sino pa kasi ang mahirap at walang maipambuhay sa anak, sila pa ang maraming anak…. at yung mayayaman, isa o dalawa lang…” The bishops and church people are just promoting “celibacy”.
Nice Comments 🙂
if we dont agree our government will have limited money to feed poor families
Tnx mayron na tayung RH Bill. ang ginagawa ni Pnoy at sa mga Law makers natin ay para yan sa ating maganda kinabukasan…
congratz,,, from cebu city
No to RH Bill. It will leave a disastrous and demoniac remarks to our culture and society
pede po bng paki summarize yng RH bill n yn??? d q po kc talaga maintindihan e hehe salamat mga kababayan xD haha para nlng po sa ikatatahimik ng aking napakagulong utak hahahhahaa xDDDD
Artificial o Natural way pa yan, NAGPEPREVENT PA RIN SILA NG BUHAY !!!!!!!!!!! SIGE NGA PAG NAG CALENDAR METHOD OH KUNG ANO PA YAN BA ANG GINAMIT MO SA TINGIN MO HNDI MO RIN HINADLANGAN ANG ISA PANG BUHAY ????? MGA UNGAS !!!!!
Literally speaking natural and artificial both the same, but the “natural way” reflects the dignity of the human person within the context of marriage and family life, it promotes openness to life, and recognizes the value of the child. By respecting the love-giving and life-giving nature of marriage, it can enrich the bond between husband and wife through healthy communication and also to their children which lead to TRUE LOVE, In other word, it teaches us the value of SELF CONTROL & SELF DISCPLINE, which in my own opinion are the most very important things not just in the over population problem, but in all aspects. If only we learn and possess these two characteristics, then there will be no CORRUPTION which I think is the very problem in our country and etc., while the “artificial way”, practices the other way. Because of the availability of the contraceptive medicines and other artificial methods, whenever “they want, they can” instead of LOVE it becomes LUST, thus the Bible say: For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. One thing more is that it has negative effects, those I knew using them before stopped because according to them, they became temperamental and obese, so what will happen if most of the Filipino families will be dependent on this? I think the bottom line to solve the overpopulation problem is not the RH bill but to give livelihood programs, conduct entrepreneurial seminars that tackles self discipline especially in the urban areas and give free quality education in all public schools.
You know, one thing that they strongly push this RH bill, because they can get something out of this because of the big budget allocation, so here comes “corruption”
i think this rh bill might help us a lot….
population is rising but economy isn’t
however if this will be legal or passed, then people should first learn responsibility
i agree on rh bill coz the population now is increasing but the worying part is that a lot of abortion is rising also..the economy situation should be the one that wil rise and not the population.
this bill is teaching us an immorality
a drunk man wont need contraceptives anymore. dapat bawal muna lasing at walang trabaho